Tipping made simple: Calculate 10% of the bill.

[CreekDog]

...and double that. :think:

Yes, there are problems with a system that requires tipping so that many can earn a better wage. But in the meantime, we have this system and I can't see that it's any more right to take out your disagreement with that system on (typically) low-paid employees who are taking your requests and putting plates of food and glasses of drinks on your table.

If you want to reform the tipping system, tell your legislators and push to change it.

If your form of protest simply leaves you with a few more bucks in your pocket, don't feel self-satisfied, if you're profiting off that decision, then it is not a moral one, it is a financial one.

[av8rdave]

1. Agreed

I disagree with the premise that the business should just charge more for it's product/service. When that happens, the additional profit goes to management/ownership, not to the employee.

At least tipping ensures that the service personnel get the money!

[The_Commonist]

2. That's exactly what I do.

Including the booze and the tax.
At my favorite restaurant, Sweetie and I usually spend a hundred bucks.
That means the server gets a twenty.
Some people think that's way too much.
Those people don't get the kind of friendly service that Sweetie and I get...

[LooseWilly]

111. You can say that again.

If you tip well, you get real service. You get service with a smile. You have a friend looking out for you from the moment you walk in the door.

On the other hand... well, I can only imagine.

[K8-EEE]

113. Exactly! People who tip like Republicans deserve crappy service

Unless you get horrible service there's no excuse for being a lousy tipper.

[JHB]

136. New (?) Rule: Don't stiff the working stiffs

If adding a decent tip makes the bill too rich for you, go someplace cheaper next time.

And if you actually get bad service, speak with the manager.

[taught_me_patience]

3. Pre tax or post tax?

Also... isn't 15% the norm?

[Stephanie]

7. Pre-tax

[Carni]

142. I have always tipped with the tax include in the total

Never actually thought about it - so if I tipped 20% on the total minus the tax I won't look like a cheap ass?

[islandmkl]

8. why do the 'tax or not tax' thing?...

and 15% is like a fair place TO START...

like a reference point...

[CreekDog]

11. so you're tipping 15% pre-tax?

okay.

i sense someone really trying their darndest to make sure they don't tip too much.

[Twinguard]

49. 15%

When I go out, I have a simple rule of thumb... tip 15% of the bill as a standard. If the waiter is good, personable, prompt, refills the drinks... bump it up to 20%. If the waiter ignores my table, shows bad attitude, etc... the 15% can shrink to 10%. **All of these are post tax**

I don't feel the need to give my hard earned cash to someone who isn't putting forth the effort to be good a their job, but if they are really busting their ass, they should get rewarded as such.

[Gormy Cuss]

56. Pre tax, and 15% is the norm in some parts of the country but not in NYC, SF, & other major cities.

Closer to 20% has become the typical expected tip in those places, but tip is expected to be figured on the pretax amount.

Part of the problem with tipping these days is that there's lots of argument about what is the proper method and amount because there's been inflation in the percentage. Many here don't remember when 10% was considered a proper tip for good but not excellent service and 15% was considered an excellent tip. Many including servers don't realize that the standard etiquette is for a lower percentage on bottles of wine (5-10%.)

I read an article about it a few years ago that said it's become more common in part because entree prices haven't kept pace with inflation but I don't know if that's accurate.

I know that one argument from the other side of the table is that the server minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation and getting high tip percentages helps offset that income loss. For that reason, until the server minimum wage is replaced by the standard minimum wage I err on the side of over-tipping for good to excellent service. It's generally a matter of a few bucks anyway.

[On the Road]

106. That is a Very Good Summary

and there certainly is a difference between different parts of society in different parts of the country. But the range under discussion is pretty clearly 15-20% of the pre-tax bill.

I had never heard of the lower percentage on wine, but it makes perfect sense if an expensive bottle is ordered. I tended to receive less on large parties, and came to expect that as par for the course. It is a lot less work to serve a table of eight than four tables of two.

For restaurants, the rules are pretty clear and public. But strangely enough, I have issues with tipping in other circumstances -- hotels, taxis, luggage handlers, etc. Maybe I'll start a separate thread on that.

[demokatgurrl]

121. And in NY it's easy: just use twice the tax n/t

[jberryhill]

145. Entree Price

Aside from 20%, it is a good idea to make sure the absolute amount of the tip is appropriate.

Simply because food prices are low is no reason to de-rate the service.

[Zywiec]

81. Pre-tax. n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

82. We always do post tax, though I'm told pre is the usual

Same with the actual tip - we almost always do at least 20, though 15-20 is the norm.

It takes some pretty crappy service to get us to dip below that 20% level, though it's happened a few times.

[Renew Deal]

96. Post tax

At least in NY. Waiters do very well here.

[Bill McBlueState]

108. do the math & see

It barely matters whether you calculate the tip before or after the tax. Tipping doesn't have to be the challenging math problem people think it is. Divide by ten, multiply by two, and round it up or down a little depending on what you thought of the service.

Say your bill is $30 and your tax is 5%. If you tip 20% on the after-tax bill, you'll leave 30 cents more than you would if you tip on the pre-tax bill. Save yourself the math and just leave six bucks.

[frylock]

4. double it!

[Toucano]

41. I love that! n-t

[readmoreoften]

5. Isn't that what everyone does? If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out. /nt

[CreekDog]

6. it's not what everyone does

oh, if only... :eyes:

and your advice was what someone told me when I was 12 and I still remember it.

[NYC Liberal]

19. I love the "WHY SHOULD I PAY THEIR SALARY!" argument

As if your cash isn't used to pay the salaries of workers anywhere you shop or buy!

[Ms. Toad]

80. Wages should not depend on the generosity,

whim, fit of anger, or whatever else is going on with the diner. It should be built in to the price of the goods. If employers were required to pay traditionally tipped employees based on the wage scale as everyone (rather than having an artificially low minimum wage) then the employee's wages would be built in to the cost of the goods. Tipping would be truly optional - and - I hope would disappear.

[NYC Liberal]

84. Of course they shouldn't. But as of now, they are.

So either factor in that 20% or so when you're looking at places to eat out, or don't go out. Especially if you think servers are underpaid and the restaurant is screwing them. If that's the case, then I'd say if you aren't willing to pay, then don't give that restaurant your money. And maybe let them know why (if you know they're screwing their staff).

[Ms. Toad]

93. That's my point. The system is broken.

I haven't hear the arguement, "Why should I be paying their salary."

The argument I have heard is that the salary should be (or is already) figured into the bill. Why should I be guilt tripped into paying extra. The former (what I have said) says the system is broken and needs to be fixed. The latter (lower in this thread) is just ignorant of the wage laws in the US.

I do, in fact, tip generously because the weight of the broken system shouldn't fall on the lowest person in the hierarchy. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to continue to point out the broken system.

[NYC Liberal]

105. I've definitely heard it.

I've also heard the argument you're talking about. I totally agree with you on that: "the salary should be (or is already) figured into the bill."

Thing is, you're not really paying "extra" considering that if restaurants eliminated tips and jacked up the price of food, it'd more than likely be around a 20% or so hike. Around the same as the average tip. So right now you're actually just paying the same as what a price hike would be, only you have the option of choosing how much you want to pay (unless you get into large parties with automatic "gratuities").

But I think we need to revamp how things work. End the system of paying wages that 'assume' tips which allow restaurants to pay less than minimum wage, increase wages (and menu prices if need be). People will ultimately be paying the same, but then one can feel free to tip, if service was great, or not tip -- and it'll have no impact on the server's wage.

[pipoman]

117. I suppose it depends on the restaurant.

As a restaurant manager, if tipping was eliminated and I had to raise my wait staff salary, my wait staff would have a net pay cut. Let's face it, while wait work definitely requires skill, it isn't rocket science. Most people who apply for wait jobs are either students or not well educated. I love my wait staff and am proud of them. They make as much as any employee in the restaurant and more than most. They would work for less and would have to if we eliminated tipping and raised their wages because then wages become market based as with any other job. I can assure you, my wait staff like working mainly for tips.

[Ms. Toad]

120. And now many of them actually report all of their tips

at tax time - another of my beefs with the current system. I don't begrudge them the income they make from tips (and would be willing to pay enough to so that they are paid a wage equal to their current wage+tips. That would still likely result in a net lower wage. Unless your employees are the exception, they are not reporting and paying income, FICA, FUTA taxes on their actual wages - and I'm not necessarily willing to pay the bump up so that their pay is high enough to make their take-home pay after taxes equals what they now have if their take-home pay is artificially high because they have been treating some portion of their tips as untaxable income.

I do have a problem with a system which (at best) winks at tipped employees reporting and paying taxes on a fraction of their income - and (at worst) actively encourages tax cheating for a select group of employees. In the years I did taxes, I cannot recall a single tipped employee who ever reported tip income beyond the 8% that was attributed to them - and employees like the ones you are talking about almost certainly earned more than an average of 8% in tips.

[pipoman]

123. I believe our wait staff do accurately report their tips

Our POS system (time clock) prompts them to enter their tips when they clock out. The numbers are usually pretty accurate as far as I can see. You are right though, many restaurants either don't track tips or encourage under reporting.

On a side note, I know of some of the better tipping restaurants whose management takes a percentage of the tips as restaurant income if the tips exceed a certain amount, I feel that is simply wrong. There have been several occasions when my wait staff's hourly wage including tips have exceeded even mine.

[Ms. Toad]

124. Good for your restaurant!

And - I believe there have been some recent court cases regarding tip theft. You're right, that is just plain wrong (except when there is a tip pool and tips are actually by agreement or workplace rules shared among employees involved in food service (not shared with the restaurant itself)).

[uppityperson]

161. Exactly. It's been interesting traveling and seeing tipping/nontipping in other countries

I was instructed to never leave a tip in France since that is not "how it is done". Waiters get paid decent salaries and to not tip as it could be taken as an insult to the restaurant.

[myrna minx]

30. My gawd, I tip at least 20% post tax and drinks. I thought everyone did that.

Wow. I tip even more at breakfast, because I don't think servers should be penalized tips because of a small ticket. I guess I know why I receive amazing service from my neighborhood places.

[CreekDog]

33. that's not the only reason you're receiving good service

the other is 'Karma'.

:hi:

[ohheckyeah]

62. I used to go to Pizza Hut for lunch

a lot and the waitresses would fight over who was going to wait on me. After awhile I didn't even have to order they just automatically brought me the drink I always ordered before and wrote me up for a salad buffet. It was great and well worth the 20% + I spent in tips. They knew my name, what I drank, what I ate and to bring me an ashtray. Usually they would ask if I wanted a to go cup for more iced tea and I got that free. :-)

[Obamanaut]

70. I know what you mean. Miz O and I have b'fast twice a week at our

local Waffle House, and when we enter, someone hollers "Sit over here sweetie." As soon as we sit down, two coffees appear.

It's a good thing.

[JerseygirlCT]

83. And tip based on the cost before any coupons

Don't know about you, but around here, I can often find $5 off coupons for some of the restaurants. But, like you w/ breakfast, we don't think it's fair to take that small part out of the waitstaff's take.

[DoctorMyEyes]

57. One of the many reasons I love my husband

That's exactly what he says - and he's a generous tipper. I adore that about him. He usually tips about 30% of the bill and if it's a cheapie little diner place more like 50%. It feels good to make someone's day. Oh, and we always get good service on repeat visits.

[myrna minx]

9. I have had so many friends who have been/are servers, as well as wonderful servers

at my neighborhood spots that perhaps I'm missing all of these horrible experiences people have been reporting. Servers are the biggest critics of bad service, because professionals work their butts off and expect the same when they are enjoying a night out. I've experenced bad service, but for the most part, I have been fortunate to have great experiences from real pros.

I always tip well, especially at breakfast, because the arbitrary 20% doesn't seem fair for a small ticket, when the server is still having to run around a very busy restaurant at morning rush.

Withholding tips because one find the system flawed is punishing the very people who are dependent on that very system to survive. For those who don't tip, the servers still have to claim your ticket on their taxes as if you did tip them. They have to pay taxes for something they never received. How fair is that?

[Ms. Toad]

85. The last 2 sentences are not correct.

Tips that employees report to their employers are reported to the IRS as earned income, and if sufficient tips are not reported to the employer then the employer is required to enter "attributed" (up to 8% - generally - of the server's share of the food and drink receipts) in a different box on the W-2 and withhold taxes on those "attributed" tips. Attributed tips are only required to be reported by the server to the IRS as income if the employee did not maintain a daily tip record (as required by law). If the employee maintained a tip record, it is that amount that is reported as income, not the made-up number reported as "attributed" tips by the employer. (Simplified slightly to explain the gist of the IRS regs on tip reporting)

I'm aware that the practice between employers and servers does not often match with the law - but if you (as a server) are complying with the law for reporting tips to your employer and keeping records of the tips you actually receive then, regardless of what your employer reports as attributed tips, you do not have to pay taxes on the tips attributed to you that you didn't actually receive. (And any excess taxes withheld will be returned as a refund. If you don't want to wait for a refund, adjust the W-4 to have less withheld.)

[myrna minx]

97. I'm sorry that my information was incorrect. Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding.

I've never been a server, so I've obviously misunderstood the complaints my server friends have had about having to claim stiffed tips. I always thought it was so unfair, so I'm glad that I was inaccurate. I guess I should stick to what I actually know and not anecdotal chat.

[global1]

10. I Wonder How Many Of The Wall Street Bonus Boys Don't Tip When They Get Less Than.....

desirable service. I bet they don't care that their waiter/waitress relies on tips to augment their salary - just like they rely on bonuses to augment their salary.

We got less than desirable service from these 'bonus boys' yet we paid them bonuses.

If they get less than desirable service from the wait staff - they stiff them. After all it's their job to wait on us they say.

[Thirtieschild]

12. 10% and double is what we do, have done for years.

Sometimes I think the only people who understand are those who have either worked as a server themselves or have children who did/do.

[Oregone]

13. The entire business structure needs to be reformed

If businesses are pricing products/services such that they cannot pay decent wages to their workers, and remain viable without charitable donations (tips), then there is something clearly wrong with the picture. Now, if they are pricing such that they are still profiting grossly, yet taking advantage of charitable donations to supplement worker wages, there are much bigger things amiss.

[etherealtruth]

14. I just calculate 20% of the total bill ;)

I know, I know ... as other's have said; if you can't afford to tip , you can't afford to go out to eat.

I will say rude service 9rude, not slow, not mixed up orders ... rude) will get you no tip from me .... with that said, rude servers are very rare and far between.

[CreekDog]

16. yes, poor service and I will withhold the tip

I think there was one instance where I did that. The service was really atrocious, it was a casual Italian Pizza place and we ordered pasta and were the only ones in the restaurant. I saw our food lined up and waiting and pointed it out to the server and she still took 15 minutes to bring it. By then we were late for our next thing and asked for the check, 20 minutes for that.

No tip.

See I make exceptions, but it's almost never that bad.

[kestrel91316]

22. Try being a single woman dining out in Los Angeles. What you described

isn't rare, it's typical.

[Gormy Cuss]

60. Oh -- the "special" treatment for some types of customers drives me nuts.

Traveling on business I had more than a few occasions when it was pretty clear the server expected a shitty tip from a table for one or a table of only women. I became accustomed to getting the table next to the kitchen door or closest to the bathrooms too, and to being "forgotten" frequently.

[kestrel91316]

61. Servers rarely seem to understand that crappy, neglectful service

is WHY they don't get good tips from a lot of women.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

112. I have seen enough of that myself

Just a few weeks ago I was at a decent resturant with a couple of women from work, we were basically ignored while a bunch of waitresses fawned over a table of loud frat types. I'm pretty sure decent service would have gotten a bigger tip out of us than whatever they got out of the frat pack.

[LibDemAlways]

133. I won't let a restaurant stick me next to the

kitchen door or bathrooms. No way. When I see I'm being escorted to either of those locations I politely refuse and explain that I'll wait for something better. The person doing the seating may grumble about me, but I don't care. I'm not paying good money to watch a parade of waitstaff in and out a kitchen door or customers on their way to and from a bathroom.

[Gormy Cuss]

138. The really obvious times were when the room was practically empty.

I'd put up with it only when I was exhausted from traveling or with coworkers who didn't want to make a fuss.

The first time that I put up a stink was at a Lydia Shire restaurant in Boston, where we had made reservations far in advance and were there 15 minutes early. When we saw that we were being escorted to the worst table in the room (it was tucked in a dark space behind the very busy wait station, was a table for two and we were a party of three) we said it was unacceptable and that we would be happy to wait for a different table. We were immediately escorted to one of the two open tables for four.

From that point on I never let my female companions convince me to settle for the crappy tables.

[LibDemAlways]

155. The worst I ever experienced was years ago when I was

much younger and more naive. A friend from New York was visiting me in So Cal and wanted to have lunch in Beverly Hills. At the time the actor Carroll O'Conner owned a restaurant (not more than a fancy burger joint) and we went there. What a mistake. First we were given a table right next to the kitchen. Then we were ignored by the waiter who, when he finally came over, made it clear that he wanted nothing to do with a couple of less than trendy looking women and that we were lucky to be served at all. Huge mistake since my untrendy friend was loaded and would have left a generous tip if we had been treated well. As it was she left him a note suggesting that he find a different line of work!

Nowadays, like I said, I remain polite and unflappable, but I will not allow myself to be taken advantage of.

[csziggy]

34. With service that bad, I tip 2 cents - they know you didn't forget the tip

Or in this day of credit cards, add it to the charge. And they should understand the insult it is. But in all the years I have been paying for my own dinners out, I only did that once. The waitress deserved it and knew it, but she got pissed and threw the pennies at me. Too bad she did it in front of the manager who asked for the entire story. Once he heard that I had not gotten service in 2 hours, he fired the waitress.

Usually at fancier restaurants, I tip 25-30%. At the cheaper places, like Waffle House (my favorite place for a quick lunch) I tip 50%. I usually only get a BLT and water and figure that the servers deserve more than the $1 that my usual rate would get them.

[CreekDog]

35. your post reminds me that if we don't all try to chizzle people out of every penny

we would all be a lot better off. :think:

[csziggy]

71. Yes, I live in a town with a lot of students working their way through college and grad school

And then there are the grads that stay because they have come to love this place and are woefully underemployed. We have some of the best educated servers and clerks in the country!

Either way, or for the people who never aspired to higher education, they all deserve a living wage. I really wish they got the pay by just doing the work without having to rely on tips, but wile we have the system we do, we need to make sure that the people who take care of us get enough money to do more than merely survive.

Besides, at the Waffle House I usually go to, I get great service, especially from the people who have served my meals before. ;)

[JuniperLea]

17. "if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out to eat"

That kind of thinking would put a serious dent in dining out, and would close a lot of restaurants, and that would mean a lot of servers losing their jobs AND their tips. I tip, and I believe in tipping, but I think that attitude really stinks. The gentrification of eating out just reeks to high heaven. What about the struggling single mother who wants to treat kids with good grades? I can think of endless situations such as this...

No rude servers in your area? Lucky you.

[etherealtruth]

23. Very few rude servers ...

Oh, they are there (admittedly,not encountered often) ... and they are not tipped by me.

Servers are not even paid minimum wage. My understanding is that they are taxed as if they receive 15% gratuities. It is part of the cost of eating out. if someone is struggling financially ... perhaps they can order carry out, go to a restaurant where gratuities are not expected. It is reasonable to consider this part of the cost of eating out.

[Tesha]

40. Last I knew, they were taxed as if they received 8% on average. (NT)

[WCGreen]

43. Actually it is 8% as set by the IRS...

And if you are a server, you can deduct your tip outs to bartenders, busboys and barbacks...

[JuniperLea]

67. Then it should be posted in restaurants

That the servers are expecting a gratuity... and the name of the payment should also be paid. Tipping is not common in other countries.

I've seen plenty of extremely wealthy people skip the tip, I'm talking million and billionaires... it's so prevelant that the finer restaurants in town automatically add a 15% gratuity to the bill.

[amborin]

73. maybe better to tip usual 20% and vote w/ feet? tips not only go to servers, but to busboys, too

[Ms. Toad]

86. 8% - not 15%

and taxes are withheld as if the server received 8% tips - any excess withheld can be claimed as a refund at the end or the year. The server is only responsible for paying taxes on the tips actually received - which is what will be reported to the IRS if everyone is doing what they are supposed to do (employees keeping a daily tip record, employees reporting the tips received to the employer, who then reports them to the IRS - and if the tips are less than 8% requesting a lower attributed tip level (which can drop as low as 2% by the employer's request.)

[etherealtruth]

119. That actually is good to know

It won't change my tipping style, but it is good to know what the law actually is.

[CreekDog]

39. you mean you go to restaurants not being able to afford the 15-20% tip?

are you sure about that?

[JuniperLea]

69. I'm not speaking of myself

I wouldn't work for minimum wage either.

[DoctorMyEyes]

59. I disagree with you

If the struggling mom or whatever other situation you're imagining can't afford to tip they should either stay home or go somewhere without servers where tips aren't expected. If you can't afford to leave at LEAST a 20% tip you shouldn't go. Period.

[JuniperLea]

63. Then it should be posted in restaurants

It's just rude to exclude people because they are too poor to pay beyond the stated prices. That's wrong.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

64. So....wait....by the same token.....

If you go to a restaurant and get excellent service, but you decided you don't have enough to tip that night, screw the server? I think you should at least be up front about that.

I don't think anyone here is saying you should tip if you get bad service.

[JuniperLea]

66. I'm saying it's rude to exclude poor people who want

to partake once in a while. Just plain rude.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

72. Is a poor person going to be broken by figuring out......

....they need at least something for a tip? I would say if they are that poor, they probably don't have enough money to be eating out period.

You can get take out at most restaurants that a "poor person" would frequent, and you don't have to tip a dime.

[JuniperLea]

129. So, now we are elitists deciding who should be allowed to eat where?

:eyes:

You would begrudge a homeless woman trying to treat her kids to a Denny's Grand Slam? They aren't allowed, huh?

That is pretty pathetic.

I think the entire system needs revamped. At least do as Spago and Crustacean and many others do... say right on the damn menu that a 15% gratuity will be added to the check, and add the damn gratuity (which is now a misnomer). Anything else is an elitist bullshit oneupmanship game.

I nearly puked when I read some of the self-righteous, condescending posts in this thread... ugh!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

169. Do the elitists include those waitresses/waiters?

We get your point with the "I wouldn't work for minimum wage either" bit. That smacks of elitism too.

Screw the waitress or waiter trying to feed her/his kids. If she/he doesn't like it, get another job.

Speaking of which, I bet many of them treating their kids to a meal would set aside enough for a tip. After all, they know the feeling.

How much is a Grand Slam breakfast nowadays, $4.99? If leaving one dollar on a five dollar check is going to break someone, maybe they need to rethink how they are spending the five dollars.

[JuniperLea]

172. Congrats on swallowing the bait...

The restaurants need to be honest and charge 15 - 20% more, and pay the wait staff the same. At the very least they should follow the lead of the upscale places like Spago, or Crustacean... the first item on the menu is a notice that "we will add a 15% gratuity (misnomer) to the check.

Our "culture" isn't.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

89. No, if you can't afford to tip, you really can't afford to eat out

At least in places with servers.

Otherwise, you are COSTING THE SERVER MONEY to serve you.

[JuniperLea]

130. What a bunch of elitist bullshit... eom

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

157. There are plenty of places to eat that don't involve tipping

If you can't afford to tip, eat at one of them.

And, it's pretty funny to call me elitest, because I'm pretty damn broke.

[JuniperLea]

158. So, you'd begrudge a woman in a shelter...

Treating her kids to a breakfast at Denny's... someone who had to scrounge for the $2.99 a piece... and doesn't have a penny to spare... and hasn't eaten out in years... there are a lot of people like that you know.

Elitist is a mind-set, not a measure of wealth. You are without question an elitist if you want to begrudge someone in dire straights a little sunshine and hope.

I'd much rather see restaurants charge 15 - 20% more and give that much more to the wait staff. At least it's honest.

Some "traditions" are just plain wrong.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

173. Oh ffs

:eyes:

[JuniperLea]

176. You honestly don't see how stupid this system is?

Why is the US so backward? We are holding onto this outdated, dishonest, and unfair ritual. It's wrong and it's hurtful and it should go away.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

178. I agree the system is stupid, but it's not going anywhere

So, if somebody can't afford a tip, they can't afford to eat.

[JuniperLea]

179. You can stick to the stupidity if you like...

Your call.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

180. Yes, because screwing people on tips really helps change the system

:eyes:

[JuniperLea]

181. You read that into what I said?

Extrapolate much?

Clueless...

:eyes:

Clearly you are just interested in arguing, and not paying attention. Go for it... jeez.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

170. It's funny, I think poor folks have more respect for those who may be in the same position

Even when I was eating Raman Noodles every night, if I ever DID go out to eat, I always had enough for a tip because I would feel flat out fucking awful if I screwed someone as broke as me out of what they earned and needed. It's karma.

People who throw around the word "elitist" do it because they have no better or salient response.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

174. Exactly

We hardly eat at real restaurants, because we can't afford it, but when we do, we always tip well.

[sofa king]

153. Same here, and I never see rude servers.

Once I established a reputation as a good tipper at my favorite places, I never met anyone I didn't like, appreciate, and professionally admire for their prowess and hard work.

And back in my drinking days, a solid tipping relationship with bartenders opened doors you wouldn't believe, if I could remember them.

The entire restaurant and bar industry in big cities is bust-ass, thankless, and for many people in big cities, a supplement to low family incomes, or a last resort to tread water until they can find jobs in their fields. Artists, writers, actors, and musicians often rely on the food service industry to give them the financial base from which they pursue their avocations.

Every dollar I can spare goes directly toward someone's dream, or so I care to believe. And if I can't spare those dollars, I don't go out.

[NNN0LHI]

15. Sometimes thats not enough I don't think

Occasionally I get breakfast for around 5 bucks and I am not going to have someone waiting on me hand and foot for a buck tip. Three dollars is my minimum tip regardless what the tab is.


Don

[corruptmewithpower]

18. The wife and I often use coupons when dining out.

We tip 20% on the pre-discount total so as not to rip of the server.

[kestrel91316]

20. I only tip 20% if I get great service. And I don't mean grovelling or hovering.

Just polite, courteous, appropriately attentive, and NOT making me sit and wait and wait and wait for the server to remember I am sitting there. Repeatedly.

[deadmessengers]

21. when did 15% become 18% and then 20%?

It's interesting, as restaurant bills go up, so does the culturally-expected percentage of the bill you're supposed to tip. It's weird, really - but then again, so is the whole concept that restaurant owners don't have to pay their own employees.

[Oregone]

28. Hey, don't complain. Its the current system we have! We gotta save their employees!

Its easier then attempting to change a system that is fundamentally contradictory to a pure capitalistic system. I guess it only works in such, being that it helps the owners make even more money by not paying their employees (as well as advertising a perceived price well below what they pay after the tip).

What some don't understand, is that continuing to tip in this system just presents a lifeline for the leaching restaurant owners to feed upon. As long as you continue to tip, you will always be required to tip. As long as people allow employers to not pay their worker's wages (by supplementing them), the workers will never demand higher wages or threaten to quit. To show disdain for a system, and yet advocate that we aid its continuance seems counterintuitive.

[Matariki]

54. I generally leave 20% - but have wondered the same thing.

thought the rule of thumb was 15% and that I leave generous tips. Apparently not. When did the 'rule' change?

On the other hand, my ex-inlaws from the Midwest seem to think a dollar or two on a dinner for four is the standand. We used to have to sneak a tip onto the table since they always insisted on paying for the meal.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

75. 15% was generally considered the minimum

20% is for those who don't want to look cheap. ;)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. That's what I do. The math is easy and the tip is usually deserved.

And anybody who refuses to tip the waiter/waitress, for whatever "principle" they think they are upholding, is an asshat and deserves to have boogers deposited in his boeuf Bourguignon.

[maxsolomon]

25. that is not what is required - yours is a rule of thumb

15% on the pre-tax total is standard. more if service is exceptional. EXCEPTIONAL means significantly better than average.

your system would make a $100 pre-tax meal in seattle (not that exceptional these days) cost $132. that's a 22% tip on top of a 10% sales tax. they better be the best fucking waiter on the planet.

and praytell, what does one tip on carry-out? or barista service? the same?

[CANDO]

26. I've often wondered about eateries where you serve yourself.

Some places where you go to a salad bar and all the wait staff does is bring you your drinks and remove your plates. I give maybe 10%. I'll be damned if I'm giving 20% for serving myself! Same for Infinitos, you serve yourself but the wait staff only takes away the plate ware. They don't even serve drinks, but I leave a 10% tip. Anywhere I get full wait service I've always given at least 20%. My conscience bothers me if I do less than that.

[CreekDog]

27. i don't leave 20% at buffets

another chink in my armor. :rofl:

[Ms. Toad]

87. The ones that get me are the coffee bars or other counters

where absolutely no services is provided at all that have prominently stuck tip jars on their counters next to the cash register.

Those are the only ones I don't tip - everyone else is tipped 15% or 20% (15% for the buffet style, 20% for full service.

[quaker bill]

29. I once fed myself on tips

so, unless the service is outright rude, I tip generously. I do recall having been all but forgotten once, in that case, I was less generous. I left enough to show that I did not forget to tip but way under my normal 15 to 20 percent, some loose change as I recall it. On the other hand, for a really good hair cut, I have gone as high as 100 percent.

[csziggy]

36. One of my college roommates put herself through nursing school as a waitress

She worked nights and went to school during the day. I don't think she slept much. She may have had a scholarship, but otherwise her pay and tips were all she lived on. Of course, that was when a state university tuition was a few hundred dollars a semester.

[ZombieHorde]

31. I tip 15% and round up to the nearest dollar at restaurants and I tip $3 to pizza delivery people.

[DiverDave]

32. If it's good service, we are 25-30% people

My wife and I were both in the serving biz, I started as a busboy in 71, I got 2-3 bucks in tips a night.
And I've been a Hobart operator too...

I was working the El Crab Catcher on Maui when raygun decided that servers were getting away with murder with the tips.
I saw actual checks for 0 dollars and .00 cents.

God damned repukes, now, 30 years later they tax my wifes unemployment.

And the fucking spineless Democrats just let it slide.

Same old shit, different day.

I am no longer hopeful, it'll NEVER change, NEVER.

[walldude]

91. Yeah man, funny how the cheap asses are always ones who never

had a service job. I tip 20% no matter what, if the service was good and the server was nice they get 25-30% and lucky you if you get me on a holiday. Usually 50-70% for some poor sap bringing me food on a holiday. I have actually had servers chase me to my car asking if I had meant to leave that much...

[woofless]

160. Us too.

I figure twenty percent in my head and bump it a couple bucks. I remember what it's like to work for jackshit.

[drmeow]

37. While I have conflicts about the whole

notion of tipping (which started as a way to reward exceptional service, not any service, but has evolved to the latter) but that does not stop me from tipping because, as you said, I'd be punishing the wrong people.

Admittedly, my partner usually calculates the tip when we eat out (but I always remind him to calculate it on the pre-coupon amount if we have a coupon).

When I am calculating the tip, I will definitely register deep dissatisfaction with the service with a lower tip. If I don't like the food, that's not the servers fault so the tip doesn't change. Just being late is not the servers fault either ... however I do expect the server to come by and indicate that s/he is aware that things are late and indicate they are trying to do something about it. I expect better service at better restaurants so what a server can get away with at a lower end restaurant will reduce the tip at a higher end restaurant. I have also given higher tips for better service (going beyond the call of duty, so to speak) or being a "difficult" table (things like multiple checks, etc).

[Ms. Toad]

88. Yeah - I forgot about being a "difficult" table

when I had a little one 15-18 years ago. I cleaned up the mess she always made, and still tipped higher than 20%.

[drmeow]

177. I hadn't even thought about the "little one"

aspect. I was thinking more along the happy-hour-that-turns-into-dinner-with-multiple-people-coming-and-going-often-multiple-checks-adding-yet-another-order-of-appetizers-to-the-bill-straddling-two-servers-schedules type difficult aspect :)

[The Straight Story]

38. How much should one tip hookers?

:)

[AZ Criminal JD]

44. Ask Eliot Spitzer

[TahitiNut]

46. A fourskin?

:dunce:

[TheCowsCameHome]

47. I wouldn't want a hooker with ony one tip.

[JTFrog]

50. I usually tip them to about a 90 degree angle.

:spank:

[Lilith Velkor]

163. 25% is customary in DC

Since you asked.

[WCGreen]

42. I subtract the tax. I don't feel I have to tip on the tax...

I start at 15% and go up and down according to the service. I also do not fault servers for obvious kitchen mistakes. People who say we should move the tipping standard from 15-20% because of inflation don't take into account that the inflation is built into the price of the food.

[TheCowsCameHome]

45. Some places print a handy chart on the slip with various rates already calculated.

I think I saw them in Maine. Pretty neat.

[Goblinmonger]

51. All 4 cell phones

we have in the family (mine, wife, two kids) have tip calculators.

[CreekDog]

55. my friend was totalling up the bill for our group (at Viet place in SF) and tipped the guy $2

:eyes:

he's a little clueless so i think he just didn't realize what he'd done.

anyway...server comes over with a card that they apparently hand out to European tourists and he explains to me and my friend that in the USA, tipping is customary. :rofl: :hide: :rofl: :crazy:

that's when i asked him, "well how much did you give him?" and he seemed thoroughly confused and i'm like, "you goofball, you tipped him $2 on a $120 bill."

once i told everyone what happened, they kicked in and we had a proper tip without any fuss. i would have been embarassed except it was funny that the guy (whose English was barely passable himself) was talking to us like we were European tourists. :rofl:

[Luminous Animal]

100. My husband and I once

had a restaurant owner chase us down the block to return a portion of our tip! This is in SF, also. It was the first time that we'd ever ate at this particular sushi restaurant... the food and service was soooooo good (several special off menu on-the house-dishes for us to try, the tea always full, treats for our 3 year old...), we tipped around 40% trying to compensate a bit for the free stuff. Imagine our amazement when he chased us down and returned half of our tip! We continued eating at this restaurant for 12 years (until the owner died) and continued to be treated very well but we kept our tip within the 20-25% range but I would gladly tipped 40%.

[bicentennial_baby]

48. Y'know, that would be easy if everyone

had cash money.

:eyes:

[iris27]

52. I generally start at 15, post-tax, post-everything, and round up to

the next buck or two from there.

And definitely tip on the original amount when using a coupon or gift card!

[flvegan]

53. I round the bill up to the next dollar. Then, I take 20% (at least) of that. Then

when I add that to the tally, I then round the tally up to the next dollar.

IOW, for example, if the bill is $24.50, I round up to $25. 20% is $5, making it $29.50 which I then round up to $30.00. That way the waitstaff gets the tip plus a tad extra, and my bank statement is cleaner.

[robertpaulsen]

58. Uh-uh, I don't tip.

I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.

I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball.

One last thing: The words "too fucking busy" shouldn't be in a waitress's vocabulary.

Now where's my six cups of coffee?! :evilgrin:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

68. See #24.

[eilen]

74. If everyone tips 20% and taxes are paid only on 8%.....

well, I have to tell ya, my friend made more money tending bar then in her previous job as a nurse in the ED.

And she certainly paid less in taxes.

So would that make her a tax cheat?

[FedUpWithIt All]

128. That may be what the law requires but it is NOT how many employers figure things.

When i was a server we would receive a total sales at the end of the day and 15% of those sales was automatically figured out of your $2.09/hr.

[eilen]

194. I read the laws (they are required to be posted in any place of business)

and they said that so long as you keep records of your tips and they are less than the amount of income reported as "tips" from your employer and it equals out to be less than minimum wage, your employer must compensate you to an amount to equal minimum wage. Also, if your records show you made less then the 15% reported by your employer, you should not be taxed on that amount, only the actual amount.

Minimum wage is very low but if you are a server, you are earning approximately 1/3 of minimum wage in your hourly pay.

[CreekDog]

150. unreported income makes one a tax cheat, yes

this is not complicated.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

79. C'mon you, cough up a buck, you cheap bastard

Nevermind what you would normally do....just cough up your buck like everyone else......

[robertpaulsen]

132. Been listening to K-Billy's "Super Sounds of the Seventies" weekend?

It's my personal favorite. :thumbsup:

[Ms. Toad]

92. The government doesn't tax non-existent tips

(as long as everyone is doing what they are legally required to do to report tips).

What the government DOES do is permit employers to pay servers $2.13/hour (federal standard - some states impose higher minimum wages), when everyone else has to be paid at least $6.55/hour (again federal standards).

I tip 20% now (except for buffets where I tip 15%)n- mostly because I know there are people who don't tip and if the employer actually paid minimum wage my bill would be higher (and I don't think I should contribute to someone earning less than minimum wage).

[Luminous Animal]

102. In San Francisco...

everyone is paid a "living wage". I believe it is up to $9.66 and hour now, including wait staff. I don't mind tipping on top of that. Recently, San Francisco instituted mandatory insurance coverage or "equivalent" compensation for businesses that employ over 20 people. In order to "rile the masses" some restaurants decided that they were going to specifically enumerate that additional business expense on the bill rather than fold it into an increased price like they would do with any other increase of business expense (such as, increased rent, electricity, utilities, etc.). Any of my favorite restaurants who employed that anti-worker bullshit got a pissy letter from me and no more business. When I call to make a reservation at a restaurant that I have never been to before, I specifically ask if they employ that strategy, and, if they do, I won't eat there.

[Ms. Toad]

125. I noticed that California used the same wage

for tipped employees as for non-tipped (but somewhere in the range of $8/hour). Sounds like San Francisico is even higher.

I'll have to think about the practice you described - I can actually see both pros and cons to it. Although the employer intent is certainly anti-worker, I kind of like having an explanation of why the cost may be higher at smaller restaurants - particularly in comparison with similar restaurants near the border between San Francisco and "not" San Francisco, since probably a lot of folks aren't aware of it and might go across the border, so to speak, to avoid the higher costs the San Francisco has to impose but the "across the border" restaurant doesn't have to bear.

A lot of smaller employers can't afford to provide insurance because their pool is too small so that their insurance is risk based - the cut-off is typically around 50 employees. That means if a smaller company employs someone with diabetes, AIDS, or something else insurance companies typically reject - the cost of the employer providing insurance is prohibitive (My employment related family premium is considerably higher because of this practice than it would cost for my family to purchase insurance from the state high risk pool). I might actually be encouraged to patronize a smaller restaurant that either voluntarily provided health insurance or were forced to provide additional compensation - and expressly including it on the bill would bring it to my attention so I knew that was what was happening. (And, it might also remind me to patronize smaller restaurants because from your description it isn't a universal cost like rent, electricity, utilities, etc. - it is cost imposed on specifically on smaller employers.)

[CreekDog]

147. I'm in SF and it really isn't as you describe

and it's a small price to pay for universal health care in SF.

i wish we had it where i live and i'm only 6 miles south of SF.

and it hasn't stopped me or anybody i know from eating in SF (traffic and parking has done more to stop me than anything else).

besides, SF isn't a city with chains, so you aren't going to find a comparable restaurant on the "border" of SF in Daly City, you will likely find very different choices, some chains, some not. Where you go will depend on what you want and what you want to spend and how far it is and not the surcharge.

[Ms. Toad]

183. I think you must be responding to the prior post.

The post I responded to described listing the fee on the bill as anti-worker and a negative thing, and was boycotting restaurants who do that.

I described the reasons that specifically listing it might be a positive thing (for people who might think the policy was a good thing if they were aware of it). In other words, since you think it is a small price to pay for health care, calling it out specifically might encourage you to eat in a small restaurant in San Francisco in support of that public policy - whereas without that visible reminder you might choose a cheaper one outside of San Francisco (that was cheaper because it didn't have to pay the extra fee to provide universal health care).

[CreekDog]

185. I wasn't suggesting you were against the fee or the program

while you present some logic in your thinking about this, i'm telling you that in practice, that won't work because most of SF's restaurants are not near the border of the city and bordering cities don't really border SF, except for Daly City, which doesn't have many restaurants where it meets SF and SF doesn't have much density of restaurants where it borders Daly City either (this is not like Scottsdale/Phoenix/Tempe for example). The other neighboring cities are across toll bridges (Marin and Alameda Counties) so nobody is going to or from those places based on financial considerations.

That's all I was saying.

And while I'm happy to support SF's policy, where I eat has little to do with it. Though because I work in SF and live just outside SF I would be a good example of the kind of person you are talking about except that the fee just won't enter into my considerations when gas, parking, traffic and the choice of restaurant are the primary considerations --most of us don't even know which restaurants do the fee and which ones don't.

[Ms. Toad]

187. That was my point -

>>most of us don't even know which restaurants do the fee and which ones don't<<

That was exactly my point - if it is printed on the bill, then you do know - and might be encouraged to patronize that restaurant in spite of the higher costs in order to support the policy (whether it is a distinction between in and out of SF - or between large and small restaurants within SF.

All I was doing was suggesting that I did not necessarily see putting the information on the bill as a black and white bad thing - that there could be benefits to printing it on the bill (and suggesting how it might be used to provide enough information to allow me to make choices that are supportive of small businesses or the general policy).

[mudesi]

104. What's Special? She Takes You In Back And Sucks Your Dick?

:P

[robertpaulsen]

134. I'd go over twelve percent for that.

:fistbump:

Lookin' back, on the track, for a little green bag...

[FedUpWithIt All]

127. In most states they get paid well below minimum wage.

In some cases as low as $2.30/hr. Then they are taxed on this amount PLUS a percentage of the total sale. Wwhen you finish paying taxes out of your $2.30/hr there is usually little or no income left. Servers only exist because of tippers. Otherwise serving your 6 cups of coffee would have to be done by volunteers.

[salin]

186. as I scrolled through this thread

this was my thought as per what was missing. I have done my time as both a wait staff member and a bar tender (folks are generally much more generous with the bar tender). For more than a decade I have started my standard tip at 25% of the post tax total. I give nothing to self-service (if I serve myself ala a salad bar and bus my own table), but other than that, recognizing that the server is making below minimum wage, I tend to start generous. I scale down from there. Recently I wanted to give a much smaller percentage toward a tip - but because it was a large group - the tip was figured into the bill. With reservations we arrived early and waited 30 minutes to be seated. Once seated we waited for more than 30 minutes for someone to take our order. When we arrived the place had few customers - so an overload (giving a break due to the work load of the wait staff) was not the case. Once finished it was an hour before we received our checks. Even for a party of ten - is it reasonable for the meal to stretch to 3.5 hours (4 hours if including the early arrival?) Had I not been required to pay a tip in the check, (only at 15%), I would have down graded the tip.

Due to my empathy with wait staff and the recognition that in many states they are paid BELOW minimum wage - my tips sometimes go above 30% for really good service. However I was surprised with the very poor service at an establishment with a "very favorable" reputation for being so dismissive of a large group (where the tip is figured into the bill - even though the tip rate is lower than what I generally tip) - where the auto tip seemed to spur poor service. My empathy (knowing the below minimum wage pay of many wait staff) only goes so far.

[mopinko]

188. minimum wage is a federal law. by law, they get half of minimum wage.

some states have a higher minimum wage, but many of those exempt people who get tips.

[ohheckyeah]

65. I used to go to Pizza Hut for lunch

a lot and the waitresses would fight over who was going to wait on me. After awhile I didn't even have to order they just automatically brought me the drink I always ordered before and wrote me up for a salad buffet. It was great and well worth the 20% + I spent in tips. They knew my name, what I drank, what I ate and to bring me an ashtray. Usually they would ask if I wanted a to go cup for more iced tea and I got that free. :-)

[kcass1954]

90. Until I divorced my ex, I took his mother to dinner every Wed night.

My son was a toddler then, and we always went to a little German deli/restaurant nearby. At our request, the hostess seated us in whatever area was being worked by our favorite waitress. I can see her in my mind, but darn if I can remember her name! Anyway, each time we went, the first time she came over to our table, she brought 2 iced teas, milk in a cup with a lid and a straw, a basket of rolls and butter, a small plate with a package of crackers and a large dill pickle, and a big stack of napkins. Service for the rest of the meal was absolutely perfect - always! The bill was usually right around $30 - my tip was $10.

[Mr. Ected]

76. My Brother Once Waited A Table At A Local Restaurant/Bar

Where there wasn't a minimum tip for parties of 6 or more.

Bunch of mouthy jerks ordering drinks and food over the course of several hours, and the bill was somewhere in the hundreds.

My brother is a real charmer and very gung-ho.

When the party left the premises, the tip they left behind was less than a buck in change.

He took their dimes and quarters, ran out to the parking lot, saw them getting in their Mercedes Benz, and flung their change at the car and shouted "keep your fucking pennies, you assholes!"

He was fired the next day and the owner of the car took him to court to collect on the damage inflicted on the Benz.

My brother never worked in food service again. Probably for the best.

[mainer]

77. Always screen your potential mates with trips to restaurants

A lousy tipper is not good husband material.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

135. Yep. I don't even want to be friends with someone who stiffs waitstaff.

[CreekDog]

143. and how they treat, talk to and what they expect of wait staff are key things to watch

watch out. :D

[fujiyama]

78. Hell I give 15% just for carry out orders

My standard tipping for actual sit down is around 20%

[stuntcat]

94. for real

I waited tables once and it was the toughest job I've ever had, no kidding. Spending a couple bucks extra when you're having a night out getting served should NOT be such a problem.

[jmm]

95. One good thing about 5% sales tax is

it makes figuring out the tip easy.

Normally I tip at least 20%. If the service is so bad that it doesn't warrant a tip then something needs to be said to the people who run the restaurant (granted sometimes the people running the place are part of the problem) even if it's a letter after the fact or a comment card. If you really want to make a statement just witholding money is a passive aggressive way of doing it.

[Medusa]

98. Take care of the wait staff

and they'll take care of you. When I travel, I apply the same philosophy to baggage handlers at the airport, cab drivers, and the hotel staff. :toast:

[Duer 157099]

99. What I don't understand it why it depends on the bill at all?

Doesn't it take a server the same effort to deliver a $5 salad as a $30 steak? Why not just tip a certain amount that depends on the number of people being served, or something?

:shrug:

[applegrove]

101. I was in a rush today when I was doing the tip thing on the ATM wand. I only gave a little over 10%.

I'm so embarrassed.

[sushi]

103. It's different in Australia

I live in Australia now. Of course you can tip if you want, and we do tip, but here tipping is not expected. I understand servers earn at least A$10.00/hour (I think an A$ is US71c today), and that's for teenagers. I prefer to eat at home because I LOVE cooking and am fussy about food, and ingredients, and you never know restaurant food. I also tell my husband that even when dinner is less than successful (I experiment all the time), you know it's 100% clean!

[scrinmaster]

107. The thing that I don't get about tipping,

Is that a server does the same work to bring an $8 hamburger or a $24 steak to my table, but gets three times as much money for the latter.

Oh well, I still tip 15-20%.

[Control-Z]

109. Yep, I give 20%

and sometimes more if I really liked the server and can afford to.

[bridgit]

110. Tipping made even simpler, it depends upon the service...

I've seen my husband toss out 15-20$ for 40-45$ dinner out so long as the service is good

[McCamy Taylor]

114. No, for 15% you calculate 10% then halve that and add it to the 10%.

20% is extra. At least where I live.

[Vickers]

115. I calculate 40% of the bill, and then halve it.

:P

Oh, and I leave an autographed picture of myself.

:thumbsup:

[aikoaiko]

116. What about buffets? I only do 10%

The servers don't take my order and I have to get my own food, but they do bring me my drinks/refills and clear the table.

I say 10%.

[CreekDog]

141. i think most people tip less at buffets

that job is quite different.

[TexasObserver]

118. I usually tip 20-40%, depending on the situation.

Generally, the lower the bill, the higher the percentage.

If I eat breakfast for $5, I'm tipping $2.

If I get a hamburger for $3.50, I'm tipping $1.50.

If I have dinner for $17, I'm tipping $5.

If the tab is $76, I'm tipping $24.

I rarely tip under 20%, and 15% is the absolute bottom, even for lousy service, which I seldom receive, because I establish a rapport with my waitstaff that says "I'm a good guy who respects you and your job, and will tip you on the high side."

[MrBC]

122. Ditto that

I agree. 20% is the norm for me, unless service goes above and beyond lousy.

[DemBones DemBones]

126. And tip more than 20% if the service was good and

you can afford it; you'll help to make up for the assholes who undertip or outright stiff the server.

If you can't afford to tip 20%, you can't afford to eat out.

Go instead to Mickey D's where the employees make minimum wage (servers make about $2 an hour) and you carry your own food.

What we really need to do is go to the Italian system: the tip is part of the bill so servers don't depend on the mercy of cheapskate customers. The servers in Italy aren't slackers, either. They earn their pay.

[hfojvt]

131. low paid employees?

Typically, because of tips, they make more money than I do. Often, a lot more.

[CreekDog]

139. their base wage is usually quite low

without tips they would be paid very poorly --even with tips, many are still.

i also thought that in this country, we want people who work hard to be paid well.

[hfojvt]

152. it's fine to want people who work hard to be paid well

but do you really insist that a guy who makes $5.50, $7.15 or $8.5 an hour to add to the pay of a waitperson who averages $10 to $15 an hour? Is that same waitperson really going to be helped if I go out to eat even less often than I do now?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006042205136

[CreekDog]

154. the standard is that you tip 15-20%

if the customer's wage is lower, going out to eat still costs what it costs.

[Midlodemocrat]

137. I always tip 20% or more. My favorite restaurants with my favorite

wait persons get 30%. They treat me really, really well, which is why they're my favorites.

[redqueen]

140. Well said.

And now I can't help thinking about Mr. Pink.

[robertpaulsen]

144. My feelings exactly.

:thumbsup:

[create.peace]

146. Plus, here in Kansas, where breakfast is cheap.....

I tip as if i was paying for breakfast in a more expensive place. Seriously, if you are paying for a 4 dollar breakfast, it is just as much work for the server as an 8 dollar one in Washington, so I make sure the server gets at least a dollar a person served. We have the lowest minimum wage in the country, and if you are at a mom and pop cafe, the national minimum wage does not apply.

[mopinko]

148. i overtip whenever i can. i look at it this way- if i can make someone's day

for a few bucks, why wouldn't i?
what do you get for your few bucks saved by sharpening the pencil, and tipping the minimum? imo, you get nothing. if that couple of bucks makes your day, maybe that is fine. but i used to have to do that job, and a fiver on a $20 check would make the day a little brighter. for a dollar, you make the world a little better.
if you can't do that, as has been stated elsewhere in the thread, eat somewhere cheaper.

[WhollyHeretic]

151. That's the same attitude I have.

It really doesn't add up to much and you might make someone's day a little better. Waiters/waitresses get crapped on a lot.

[scisyhp1]

149. Tipping made even simpler: Pay the staff a decent living wage

then just round up your bill to the next convenient common denomination and pay that.
That's what people in all other countries do. US and (to a lesser degree) Canada are the only advanced countries which developed that ridiculously elaborate tipping culture, very
reminiscent of "baksheesh" economy still prevalent in many backward societies. There
is truly no need for that. You get the same, if not better (and less invasive), service
in Australia, where you are not expected to tip.

[NuttyFluffers]

156. yup, recommended. time for us to catch up to the industrialized world...

tired of us being perpetually behind. dump tired, old systems; they don't work as well.

[JuniperLea]

175. Yep... the system is stupid...

And dishonest, and unfair to all concerned.

[wickerwoman]

182. But but...

then people can't get off on punishing their server with a low tip.

I got much better service in China and New Zealand, neither of which has a tipping system. They take your order, they bring your food, they get paid by their boss, they don't hover, they don't refill your glass every five seconds, they don't make obsequious jokes or rattle off five minute pre-programmed lists of the specials.

Who do I have to tip to bring human dignity back to the US service industry?

[WI_DEM]

159. My tipping system is 10% for poor service; 20% for good service; and 25% for excellent service.

[alfredo]

162. Tip 20 percent. Remember, bad food is not the server's fault, it is the

fault of the kitchen and management.

Read this:

http://bitterwaitress.com/wp/

[WI_DEM]

165. True, but bad service is the servers fault. I never blame the wait person for the taste of the food

[alfredo]

168. Late food is the cook's fault, but late, cold food is either the server's fault or

the cook didn't leave the food in the microwave long enough.

[high density]

191. I don't get why the kitchen serves obviously bad food

Like when I buy something fried and it comes to the table burnt to a crisp, to the point of turning black. I mean come on.

[alfredo]

193. Bad cooks plus management that doesn't care. It all comes back to the

top of the chain of command. Workers will live up to or down to expectations.

[alfredo]

164. Bad Tipper Database

http://bitterwaitress.info/wp/?page_id=235

[doctor jazz]

166. Most civilized countries have done away with the horrid practice of tipping.

But then most civilized countries have also done away with the death penalty...and adopted the metric system.
:shrug:

[anigbrowl]

195. Oh, no

I'm European, which I consider to be full of civilized countries, and people still tip. The only difference is that one doesn't generally tip at bars since a drink is generally considered a unit sale and the effort to pour it minimal (a cocktail bar is something different again). but tipping in restaurants is the norm.

Suits me fine. I used to work in a diner and liked the tipping system OK. Comparing it with the death penalty is just ridiculous.

[lumberjack_jeff]

167. Better yet, come in, look at the "special of the day" board.

Multiply that $9.95 chicken fried steak special by two. Add $5 for two glasses of milk, then multiply the total by 129% (don't forget sales tax!)

Take the result; $32, from your wallet. Walk out the door to the nearest grocery store, and buy 10 lbs of hamburger and a sack of potatoes. Give the remaining $2 to the homeless guy standing at the entry to the parking lot. You can make your own chicken fried steak, have 9 pounds of hamburger left over, and the homeless person you "tipped" won't brag on a discussion board at how much you suck and threatening to wipe his butt with your dinner if you don't tip better next time.

Bonus math; In my area the minimum wage is $8.55 an hour. If the waiter serves 30 specials in an 8-hour shift, his hourly wage for that day is $18. Not exactly a princely sum, but the median FAMILY income in this country is only $22 assuming one breadwinner.

If you can't afford to tip, don't go out to dinner. News flash, you can't afford the dinner OR the tip, and it's not appreciated anyway.

[Bucky]

171. Do people really have difficulty calculating 20% or 15% of a bill?

Tipping the waitstaff is already a easy calculation. "Tipping made simple" sound like "Yanni songs made Muzak-friendly" or "Diet water".

[Donald Ian Rankin]

184. Is that constant across the US?

Here in the UK, or at least in Cambridge, I think 10% is the norm, I believe (I don't eat in restaurants due to weird diet, but 10% is the figure I see people I dine with calculating, and although I occasionally contribute a quid on grounds of having taken up space I don't worry too much if I can't).

In some countries, I believe tipping will actually cause offence, or is forbidden.

Are the standards the same all across the US?

[Mimosa]

189. Tipping made simple: Calculate 10% of the bill.

That's EXACTLY how we have always done it. For very good service we calculate the tip on the post tax amount. For average, the pre-tax amount.

[mwooldri]

190. I find it amazing that restaurants can LEGALLY hire people at below minimum wage...

... and expect their tips to make up the rest of the wages. It's almost criminal in my eyes. To me, tips are for a job well done.

That's why it's important to tip in US restaurants, something lost on Brits, where the restaurant workers are paid at least the same minimum wage as everyone else and usually a bit more. A 50p-#2 tip is "usual" over there in regular restaurants... well you might tip more at one of Gordon Ramsay's or Jamie Oliver's restaurants... but Brits generally don't tip.

[scrinmaster]

196. If they don't get enough money in tips to bring thier wage up to minimum wage,

the employer makes up the difference.

[TexasObserver]

192. Good tipping: First, find a cow that is sleeping standing up ...