Former KKK member Elwin Wilson wants forgiveness

[The Straight Story]

Former KKK member Elwin Wilson wants forgiveness

Former Ku Klux Klan member, Elwin Hope Wilson is asking for forgiveness. He wants people to know that he wants to atone for his sins. Some have called him a hero. Some are a little skeptical. His reasons are really simple; he wants to go to heaven, not hell. Is that really what atonement is about? I'm old now so I'll be nice now so I can get into heaven!

I am a Christian and I do believe that people can change and people can be forgiven. Somehow though, Elwin Wilson bothers me. If Charles Manson came out and said, "hey I want to apologize for what I did and atone before I meet my maker so I can get into heaven," how would we feel? Would we embrace him? Some would I guess. Good Christians would and while I'd like to think of myself as a good Christian on this Palm Sunday, I find it hard to believe Wilson is sincere.

The Rock Hill, South Carolina man admits to cross burnings and hanging a black doll on a noose at the end of his driveway. He has hurled tire jacks at black children. He beat Congressman John Lewis of Georgia in the face. Wilson's son Chris admits his father used the "N" word often and liked to yell at African Americans in restaurants and on the street. Something Chris finds embarrassing. Elwin Wilson says back when he was a bigot, "It was sport."

In 1961, Wilson picked on Freedom Riders at Greyhound bus terminals. In the 1980's, apparently not ready to atone, he protested his local cemetery when he found they would bury blacks next to whites. When an African American bought a house in his neighborhood, good old Elwin beat up the real estate agent and demanded the sale be stopped. His grandson, also named Chris, heard the "N" word and racial outbursts too often as a kid. Elwin Wilson enjoyed threatening his neighbor with his AK-47 when they complained about the black doll he had hanging in his driveway. In 1999, when Wilson's Baptist minister wanted more African Americans at the church, Elwin quit the church.

Elwin Wilson is 72 years old now and suffers from diabetes. When his "I want to go to heaven philosophy" came along is unsure but it is pretty recent. He did ask his friends to pray for and with him when he had the revelation. He proudly said, "It's not like I stopped cussing or anything, I just don't feel the same hate."

http://www.examiner.com/x-5265-Albuquerque-Green-Business-Examiner~y2009m4d5-Former-KKK-member-Elwin-Wilson-wants-forgiveness

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. Fuck him ..........

He's old, sick, and dying. Now he's afraid of going to Hell, good Christian that he's always been.

Fuck him. He maybe should have been afraid of the afterlife while he was pulling his bullshit.

Fuck him. He should rot..................

[The Straight Story]

2. Tell us how you really feel and don't sugar coat it

:)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. Sometimes,

my restraint cripples me. But, well, I'm shy.

Oh, and fuck him ...................

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemoTex]

13. Too bad. Jokes on him. No heaven. No hell.

No Jesus. So, yes, FUCK HIM!

[obiwan]

29. Fuck him? As they say, to err is human, to forgive is divine.

I am old, sick, and dying too. I have been a liberal all my life, and I haven't done any of the things this guy has. So I guess I am seeking asbolution, too. So fuck me, too?

This guy obviously wants to atone for past misdeeds for whatever reason. The Bible (written by men) says "turn the other cheek."

I hope that's what somebody thinks of you when you are old, sick, and dying (you surely will be someday.)I hope they say "turn the other cheek" and not "Fuck him."

If you are really a Christian then this line of thinking should be incompatible with your beliefs, and you are a hypocrite. Or totally self-righteous. Or both.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

33. How about those of us who aren't Christians?

Got any room in your narrow little world for us, or do your "liberal" views only extend as far as the end of your nose?

How marvelous that you are so magnanimous that you are able to forgive someone who is, in truth, an abstraction to you and your life. How many of your friends or family members were terrorized by Elwin, or are you just sitting up there on your perch, pronouncing and condemning?

Does your glorious liberal self teach you to be judgmental when people state opinions different from yours, or did you skip that part in your precious Holy Book that says "Judge not lest ye be judged"?

Then, there's also that line about the jaw of an ass, and that, of course, should resonate for you .............

[obiwan]

38. Jesus said "Turn the other cheek".

I suggest that you do the same.

Look, I grew up in the Midwest in the 50's and 60's, and I had my share of confrontations with the KKK. In 1971, I was in a countermarch when the KKK marched in our small Midwestern town. That afternoon, at least to the KKK, I became a "filthy hippy."

I think we generally think in the same way. But I think your experiences were different than mine, and that affects our POV.

Please just let this guy go. In the long run, it doesn't matter.

As I said elsewhere, God will sort this out. If you really believe in Him, trust Him.

We both have better things to do than get in a pissing contest.

I imagine in a contest like that, you have pretty good aim.

So do I.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

40. No, your aim stinks ...........

What guy should I "let go"? And who on earth are you to tell me how I should think about anything?

There was never a contest, my friend. Your narrow thinking serves only as a bit of playtime for me, because your stance makes it impossible for me to take you seriously.

Plus, your nastiness and judgmental namecalling make you unpalatable.

Your aim, my dear, falls short, and, ultimately, fails. What's sad is that you felt the need to tout it. Poor fella. ................

[obiwan]

39. Good point.

Sorry, I don't want to call you something you are not.

BTW, I am an agnostic. And an old hippy.

Peace.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

41. I don't care what you call yourself,

you are intolerant and narrow-minded, judgmental and unpleasant. And, over and over, you DID want to call me something I am not, so you kept calling me a "Christian."

You might want to think about why you felt the need to do that. It's not very becoming.

That you use the word "peace" after calling me names is good for another laugh. All you did was attack my opinion. And then, when you've been called out on it and found inadequate, you bleat "Peace"?

Oh, honey .................

[Mari333]

3. always forgive. always allow forgiveness.

doesnt matter what the motives are.

[muntrv]

4. Burn in Hell, Elwin!!

[obiwan]

31. See response #40.

[BlooInBloo]

7. By contrast, there are people like Byrd, who led a life of repentance...

It's much easier to accept in people like Byrd's case.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

8. The old prick said he "didn't feel the hate anymore."

So, we are to commend him for not hating anymore?

I don't think so...................

[dsc]

15. No he didn't

Sorry but Byrd is still lousy on gay rights issues and the judiciary both of which ought to matter to civil rights folks.

[bbinacan]

22. You have got to be kidding me.

Byrd is still using the N word.

[BlooInBloo]

28. Ah - if that's the case, my mistake on the example...

The idea should be clear, nevertheless.

[Canuckistanian]

9. Maybe he could start by following the AA Step 9

Step Nine: "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."

That is, he should seek out everyone who he had harmed or hurt and apologize to them. Personally.

Asking for a "blanket forgiveness" from everybody is a cop out.

[islandmkl]

10. maybe YOU should do Step 1 of commentary:

research the story before you comment...

one link from DU: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/16901 ON EDIT: an actual interview with the man, with in-depth reporting about his past and who he was involved with...versus the ABQ 'article' which was mostly an opinion of someone else's reporting...

use the DU search with his name, see what you find...

yeah, why would anyone think he needs ANY forgiveness of a bunch of keyboard commandos, when he is trying to make amends personally WITH THOSE HE DIRECTLY AFFECTED...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. There was a long article about him

in the Washington Post a while back, and it went into great detail about what he was doing.

Admirable what he's trying to accomplish, this good Christian who now fears what his punishment might be after death. There's a name for what he is. A coward. A sniveling, hypocritical coward. Those sanctions, according to his religion, were in place while he was busy terrorizing people because of the color of their skin.

Doesn't change my thinking about the man at all. Looking for forgiveness when you're confronted with death doesn't impress me. He was happy enough to be a vile human being when he was healthy. So much of what he did with his hate negatively affected so many lives, and how does an apology fix that?

It doesn't, and that's why I am perfectly comfortable with my "Fuck him" stance.

See, I'm not a good Christian .......................

[islandmkl]

17. I have no dog in this race...maybe Ray Wylie Hubbard sums it up in "Conversation with the Devil":

I had a dream last night I was cast into Hell by a jealous God
The Devil walked up and said you don't need no lightning rod
It hardly ever rains down here I can't recall the last storm
You aint gonna need that leather jacket it gets kinda warm
There's one way in there's no way out looks like you're to stay
The place is a mess, it's overcrowded, more are coming in everyday.

I said ah man, wait a minute there's gotta be something wrong
I aint a bad guy just write these little songs
I always pay my union dues don't stay in the passing lane
And he said what about all that whiskey and the cocaine
I said well yeah but that's no reason to throw me in Hell
'Cause I didn't use the cocaine to get high, I just liked the way it smelled.

He said come on over here son, let me show you around
Over there's where we put the preachers, I never liked those clowns
They're always blaming me for everything wrong under the sun
It aint harder to what's right, it's just maybe not as much fun
Then the walk around thinking they're better than me and you
Then they get caught in a motel room doing what they said not to do.

Now the murderers and the rapists they go in this firey lake
As well as most of the politician and the cops on the take
And all the mothers that wait to get to KMart to spank their kids
Instead of showing what to do what's right, they just hit 'em for what they did
And all the daddy's who run off and abandon their daughters and sons
Oh anybody that hurts a child is gonna burn until it's done.

Everybody is down here I said who's up in Heaven with God and the Son
Oh some saints and mystics and students of metaphysics 101
People who care and share and love and try to do what's right
Beautiful old souls who read a little stories to their babies every night
What you won't find up in Heaven are christian coalition right wing conservatives
Country program directors and Nashville record executives.

Now I said I've made some mistakes, but I'm not as bad as those guys
How can God to this to me or can't she sympathize
He said you're wrong about God being cruel and mean
Oh God is the most loving thing that's never been seen
I said hotshot tell me this which religion is the truest
He said there all about the same, Budda was not a Christian, but Jesus
woulda made a good buddist.

Well, I thought about my future I didn't seem to have much of one
I looked around to leave but there was no place to run
I said I don't suppose I could go back and try living again
You know like reincarnation I hear that's the way it's always been
I can't answer that he said you're gonna have to wait for that response
But it's not any more unusual to be born twice than it is to be born once.

Well, it looked like I was gonna be stuck here as far as I could tell
I thought I might as well suck up you know what the hell
I said you know that soung that Charlie Daniels did
About how you went down to Georgia and played fiddle against that kid
He said yeah it broke my heart but you know what are you gonna do
I said to tell you the truth I thought your solo was the better of the two.

Well, then I woke up and I was lying in my bed
I went upstairs and kissed my little boy on his sleeping head
I took this dream as a sign from God so I thought I'd better pray
I said don't ever speak to me directly and thanks anyway
Now so much has changed about me besides me just giving up red meat

Some get spiritual cause they see the light and some cause they feel the heat...

--Ray Wylie Hubbard 1999

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. Good one ..........

Very clever.

Thanks ...............

[obiwan]

32. You are a hypocrite, too. A "Christian" hypocrite.

Read about how Jesus took revenge on those that did him wrong, in the Bible, and tell me your POV is right.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

34. My goodness,

but you're quite stuck on namecalling tonight, aren't you?

You might want to consider why the idea of people thinking differently from you troubles you so. If you disagree with me, I have no trouble with that. Go with god, and all that. I don't see that my opinion attacked you, so, tell me, why do you feel the need to attack me and call me "a Christian hypocrite."

For the record, I'm not a Christian, and you, my dear fellow DUer are remarkably crippled in your thinking. Yours is not the only POV, and your comments are remarkably ill-advised.............

[obiwan]

42. Doesn't bother me in the least.

Unless their POV is wrong. And then I move on, and I don't hang onto it. In an hour it will be totally out of my mind because it's not important.

[Canuckistanian]

16. Ok, fair enough

I read the article and he seems to be genuinely remorseful. If he's sought out his victims and apologized, then good.

Apparently, he "wonders where all the bad comes from". He should know better than anyone.

I just don't see why he should be called a hero. He OWED this to the world.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

19. I'm with you

Expecting redemption because he doesn't hate anymore?

That's heroic?

Not in my world, no.

[JanMichael]

44. "I have not come for what you hoped to do. I've come for what you did"

Did. Not what he hoped he would do, not even that he's now sorry. But what he DID do.

Nothing will erase what he DID. Not even what a non-existent better version would have hoped to do or feel. And no un-validated (un-validatable) show of regret will ever undo what was done.

[panader0]

11. Tho I am not religious, I belive in karma.

You can't do evil shit all your life and expect it to go away because you say you're sorry. Like anything else, say global warming for example, you can't just say, we don't want it any more and expect it to go away. You have to reverse the process, to the point where the positives outweigh the negatives.

[malaise]

14. There are no words for racists like Wilson

Fuck him.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[rurallib]

21. I should stay out of this but .......

this man not only is liable for his own hate and his own actions. I have no doubt that he probably provided leadership, guidance and inspiration to hundreds if not thousands of subsequent racists and haters. When I see a story that he is doing all he can to turn those he influenced, even in a peripheral way, to renounce the hate and the actions, then I will believe this is more than just a death bed conversion.
Much as the Hannities and Savages and Gibsons are complicit in the murder of random "liberals" so is this man complicit.
George Wallace former governor of Alabama spent his later years trying to undo his legacy. Not because he might go to hell, but because he realized he was wrong and needed to make it right.

[beyurslf]

23. Why dont they just hang him outside the tree and let him find out where he is going?

It is something I am sure he never a problem with in the past.

[UTUSN]

24. Never, motherfucker, NEVER!1 n/t

[lucretia54]

25. Are you saying that you don't want to forgive him because

you don't want him to go to heaven or is it because you hate him for what he did and feel that he doesn't deserve forgiveness from you? If you continue to hate him and don't believe in forgiveness do you deserve to go to heaven?

Just a thought.

[firedupdem]

26. John Lewis is a much better person than I am. I watched Wilson

on television with Mr. Lewis and couldn't forgive him. I still can't. Sounds to me like now that he's half dead he's afraid of hell. I can't help him with that. He lived a horrible life and it sounds like he was a horrible father as well. I don't feel genuine sorrow for some reason.

[Richard Steele]

27. It's not for me to judge. Maybe he's genuinely repentant- how would I know?

But genuine or not, if he actually CARES what I think
then he needs to spend his remaining years working hard
to draw the poison of racism out of our society.

An "I'm sorry now" press release don't cut shit with me,
coming from someone like him.

I say, "Prove it, KlanBoy".

[Tangerine LaBamba]

43. Having an opinion

is not "judging."

None of us here has any power over Elwin's life or death. Nor, I daresay, would we want such a power.

We're just expressing opinions, that's all. Just having a friendly discussion of a strange situation.

And, I agree completely with you. These old bigots who live their lives doing harm and who then, when confronted with their impending mortality, suddenly "come to Jesus" ain't fooling anybody.

Talk is cheap. Senator Byrd lived his life in atonement for his earlier racism. As did Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black.

Actions do, indeed, speak louder than words..................

[Raineyb]

35. Let me get this straight, this rancid racist has spent 72 years

hating black people and doing all he can to make their lives a living hell. And now all of a sudden because he's afraid of going to hell he's wanting forgiveness and he expects people to be so gullible as to believe that he's sincere? Fuck that noise!

He doesn't feel the same hate, what he means is his fear of hell has overridden his hate. Perhaps he should have thought about that when he was healthy.

Sounds like a lot of fuckery. He's not asked me so I'm in no position to say yay or nay but I'm leaning towards the "fuck him" side of the scale.

Regards

[MedleyMisty]

36. It's not my place to forgive him

Rock Hill isn't that far from here, actually. But I don't know the guy and he never did anything to me and plus I'm white. So I'm not anyone he needs to be seeking forgiveness from.

Also, hating on old and sick people makes me feel ill.

I don't know him at all, so I have no way of knowing how sincere he is. If he is sincere, then that's cool and good for him. If he's not, then oh well - if it helps him deal emotionally with his situation then cool and good for him. He can't have had a very good or rewarding life, so if this gives him some comfort at the end who am I to tell him he's wrong?

I wouldn't call him a hero, but I wouldn't call him a devil either. He's human, just like all the other billions of us. Plus. considering his age - prejudice was acceptable back in his day. I imagine that his family didn't have much money and that he didn't get much of an opportunity to learn about the world or people who were different than him. He obviously had a lot of rage and self-hate and took it out on the socially acceptable scapegoat.

I feel sorry for him. I wish I could go back to when he was a kid and fill whatever need it was that went deprived and that twisted him all up on the inside.

[XOKCowboy]

37. He doesn't need our blessing.. Just the act of asking is enough

Do I think he's in any way penitent? NO? In his mind though his God will forgive him now for all of his evilness just because he asked. Hallelujah!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. Good for him.

[geomon666]

46. If he's truly religious then he should know it's not up to us to forgive him. n/t

[Vickers]

47. "he wants to atone for his sins"

Actions > Words

[Number23]

48. Funny all of these people in this thread calling for his head

But the people who matter, the people he DIRECTLY hurt, have forgiven him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtJioVDTVUs