Volunteer army, my ass

[BanzaiBonnie]

My neighbor came over to till my garden yesterday. When he was done, we had a catch-up chat.


Two years out of high school, no money for further education, no vocational possibilities and not able to find work, his son signed up for the army. The twenty year old is in basic training and then it will be off to a foreign desert somewhere.

The dad is worried sick. He said, "What else is there to do. What else is there when you can't find work. "

[Triana]

1. That's the point of keeping a populace scared, poor, and in submission...

....cannon fodder.

[Sal Minella]

2. and making sure poor women can't get access to contraceptives or emergency contraception.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. Sounds Like He Volunteered To Me.

:shrug:

[Soylent Brice]

8. i think the point the OP is making is that

when better choices are elminated for you you're more inclined to take the only easy and viable options.

sure no one put a physical gun to the kid's head, but instead the gun was abstract: bad economy, no jobs, no money for an education, etc. but hey, come on over to the army. three square meals, GI bill, you just have to pick up this gun and do what we say. that's not a real choice.

those in power can only stay in power so long as the people are to remain poor, uneducated, and desperate. it's the only way to control or manipulate others to their own end.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. I Know The Point. I'm Stating My Complete Disapproval Of It.

He volunteered. He made a choice. There are millions of others in his situation that choose to NOT enlist in the army. Making a point that he did it because he had no other options and therefore had no choice but to default to enlistment, is just false on its face. He volunteered. End of story.

[BanzaiBonnie]

16. Easy to say

[Soylent Brice]

21. i have to admit

i'm usually inspired by a lot you post here, but honestly, i'm a bit taken back with your response to this scenario.

in all, i'm quite a bit surprised by a lot of the responses to this scenario.

you're merely stating your opinion as if this is a black and white, clear cut and dry situation. this situation couldn't be further from that. this is not black and white, and if you haven't noticed we have been getting systematically herded for the last 8 years. the decline of public education, the housing bubble, the economy in general, job loss. it's all trending in a pretty obvious direction. we're not all fortunate sons.

that is exactly how they wanted it. people will always do what they feel is the only logical option, in job choices, where to live, where to buy groceries, and if people feel that they have no other choice than to join the military due to the current economic crisis then maybe we should start looking around and asking ourselves why more people are starting to feel that way - as opposed to dismissing it as a black and white decision of volunteerism.

[Matariki]

4. Yep - that was the Reagan Plan

when he cut financial aid to college students.

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. What part of "signed up" reads like a foreign language to you?

I didn't read "was conscripted", I read "signed up". That's what you typed, right? I just wanted to clear that up.

I'll get flamed for this, but that's okay, I have thick skin. I'm going to call bullshit on the "no money for further education, no vocational possibilities and not able to find work" part of your post.

No money for further education? LOTS of jobs pay for two years of community college. LOTS. McDonald's. 7/11. Just how badly did this young man wish to further his education? Apparently, not badly enough to sacrifice. I know parents with kids who are going to community college AND working two jobs, menial though they may be. I will soon be the parent of a community college student. And, if she wants my help with living expenses, she will work. Bet on it.

No vocational possiblities? This one is hard to wrap my mind around. Is the young man of below average intelligence? Lost for an answer when told hello? This is strange to me because for ten years, I taught vocational education at the adult level. I taught a one-armed man to type 40+ words per minute. Did I do that because I was such a good teacher? NO. I did it because HE wanted to achieve that level. He got a job after learning to type with one hand, and how to use computers. It might not have equaled the pay he earned at his manufacturing job before having his hand mangled, but when he came to us after his interview he was positively BEAMING. He was back at work and that was all that mattered to him. He was just ONE example of success we saw in those who wanted it bad enough. I'm going to make an assumption and state the belief that when your neighbor said "no vocational possibilities", he meant none that his son thought acceptable.

At 20-21 years of age, he AND his father should have their asses kicked for lacking foresight and allowing him to get into this position in the first place.

The United States Armed Forces is a strictly voluntary organization. Anyone who wants to avoid serving in the Armed Forces badly enough certainly has opportunities to do so.

[JonLP24]

9. It's not that easy to get a job at 7-11 or McDonald's

I've tried trust me, I filled out numerous applications for employment. I admit my interview skills were the reasons why I was never hiried but as far as a McDonald's, a Jack-in-the-box, etc never called me. So eventually I joined the military because I couldn't find good pay, I could find low paying hard manual labor jobs in Arizona heat but I couldn't support anyone, not even myself on that pay.

[Soylent Brice]

11. in response to the "no money for education"

average costs for tuition

Private four-year $25,143 (up 5.9 percent from last year)

Public four-year $6,585 (up 6.4 percent from last year)

Public two-year $2,402 (up 4.7 percent from last year)

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/pay/add-it-up/4494.html

federal student loan limit per year for a 1st year dependent student is $5,500.

Students will pay, on average, from $381 to $408 more than last year for this year's room and board, depending on the type of college.

The average surcharge for full-time out-of-state students at public four-year institutions is $10,867.

the system is rigged so that you are taking more and more loans out. you create an indentured servant society. either be forever in debt, working just to have health insurance, and paying off loans for 10-20 years, or go into the military. or struggle.\


edit: for spelling

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. Great Post.

:applause:

[Fire1]

15. No flame here. Has financial aid and grants been eliminated?

Once in college, part time jobs on campus seem to be easy to find (dorms, pubs, fast food places, libraries, ALL academic departments hire students for one thing or another.)

[Soylent Brice]

20. see my reply upthread.

[Orsino]

18. "The United States Armed Forces is a strictly voluntary organization."

The phrasing of this sentence carefully avoids the fact that the military doesn't exist in a vacuum, and ignores the game of musical chairs that American employment has become. Anecdotes about up-by-one's-bootstraps achievement won't employ the individual under consideration.

The military is no more "strictly voluntary" than it is an organization, if you'll pardon an old joke. Sure, recruiters do their best to give kids the illusion of control, but military service--once the contract is signed--is mostly dictated in accordance with the DoD's perceived needs. That much is not so different from most other emplyers' practices, but most employers can't jail one for noncompliance. There are occasional opportunities for great success, of course, as in most other lines of work, but the statistics on who enlists belie attempts to paint service as "voluntary."

Let's acknowledge, then, that an economy largely built of, by and for the benefit of the wealthy puts great pressure on the disadvantaged. American interventionism needs a constant supply of young bodies, and not surprisingly, finds ways to guarantee that supply. For some, resisting that force can be very difficult, and it may only be getting more so these days.

We aren't qualified to rule on the case of someone we've never met.

[JonLP24]

19. Especially in the face of the fact that unemployment is getting worse, not better

Still leads people to call 'BS' when someone claims they can't find a job. Amazing.

[Occam Bandage]

6. His son volunteered, yes. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Well, he's getting paid for it.

So no, it's not strictly volunteer.

[gratuitous]

10. I get what you're saying

But then, I'm not willfully obtuse.

[BanzaiBonnie]

14. I have great respect for those who willingly choose to serve

and protect their country. Those who are willing to do that deserve the best from us.

But, there are far too many that are joining because they have no hope for anything else. They join out of desperation. When you have the gun of "no future" put to your head, what can you do? I guess I'm really tired of hearing "no one forced them to join.

I believe history bears this out. No prospects for anything better? Feed the war machine.

[JonLP24]

17. I know someone in the army who joined

because he was homeless living in Washington D.C. A very sad life he lived, he had no other choices but he has been doing good for himself aside for the few months of trouble he got into.