I Trust Obama, And I'm Sick Of People Here Not Giving Him A Chance

[mudesi]

It's been THREE WHOLE MONTHS, people. For God's sake, give the guy a chance. He's trying his best and he's actually doing the work of the people, unlike the last guy who probably was on vacation by now.

If in a couple of years the economy is still in the shitter, the Iraq war is still going on, and Afghanistan is a hopeless mess, then you can bitch. But I doubt that'll happen. I'm fully confident in Obama and I believe he is going to be the greatest president in all of history.

Wait and see.

[BlueJac]

1. This is a discussion forum

[Maru Kitteh]

93. Yes and the OP is discussing the fact that the Debbie Downers of the forum are damn

predictable and more than a little ridiculous.

[LostinVA]

96. Why are the "Debbie Downers" ridiculous?

[FLAprogressive]

107. talk about predictability - the "he hasn't had enough time" meme is the only thing that the

True Believers have.

[quickesst]

157. There are of course....

...more, but the "he hasn't had enough time" meme is the only thing needed for logical people. According to a Gallup Poll today 90% of democrats in this country are "True Believers". I call them rational. Thanks.
quickesst

[Maru Kitteh]

187. Name one fucking President who turned the country as a whole around for the better

without the deaths of magnitudes of Americans to war - IN SIX MONTHS OR LESS

-- In less than half a year, according to the rainbow-pony purists, Obama should have waved his ass over the globe and everything should be perfect.

Go smoke some more.

[L. Coyote]

242. The Republican "cheering" section IS the REAL problem:

[FLAprogressive]

247. it's not about time it's the direction....

[TheWatcher]

194. And notice their timeline to "allow" others to "Bitch and Whine" keeps getting longer.

"If it's still this way in a year....."

"If it's still this way in two years....."

"If it's still this way by the end of the term...."

"If it's still this way by the end of the second term...."

:eyes:

[Individualist]

246. Yep!

Eventually we can expect to see - but, but, he's only been in office three and a half years.

[datasuspect]

152. the OP is an attempt to stifle dissent

using a compulsively repeated marketing-driven misrepresentation.

[SlowDownFast]

223. That's it. Exactly. Perfectly said. n/t

[lucretia54]

182. Almost as predictable as the David Downers...

[Maru Kitteh]

190. Do the DD's have ED? Do they love Cialis?

Observe their right hand - do they have a callous?

[CANDO]

273. The happy puppy Presidential "fans" are even more predictable.

I didn't check my citizenship into storage on election day. Did you? In case you don't understand by now.....if the only voices of criticism are from the right wing fringe, there must be voices from the left to counterbalance them. Squeaky wheels tend to get greased. And why is pushing a Democrat to be more liberal considered undermining rather than supporting? I gave Obama hundreds of dollars during his campaign and damn-it I'm going to speak my mind if I don't think he's made good decisions. I'm a citizen and voter. I'm free to participate in this experiment called American democracy. Why try and silence me?

[shadowknows69]

2. Yeah, let's wait until things are past the point of no return to start scrutinizing.

Remind me not to vote for you for any significant office.

[empyreanisles]

7. There is big difference between "point of no return" and "just getting started".

Why don't you figure it out.

[shadowknows69]

10. Look around. The point of no return was about two years ago.

[Dawgs]

41. We get the point. You've given up.

Some of us, that actually believe a Democrat can fix this mess, will be patient and watch.

[Runcible Spoon]

50. It really scares me that people are mixing words like "believe" and "trust" with politics

Very disturbing.

[LostinVA]

99. Seriesly

I also feel that way about "support." You support a candidate, but a President supports YOU. Or should.

[rollingrock]

145. He already lied at least once

his promise to begin immediate withdrawal from Iraq once in office? already broken.

[ima_sinnic]

159. he also blatantly lied about restoring habeas corpus, and giving Gitmo detainees "fair trials"

[SlowDownFast]

225. He also lied about restoring transparency in gov't

ie: FISA (domestic warrant-less wiretapping), and failing banks/financial institutions ("stress test" results will not be public, WHO exactly is getting OUR taxpayer money and HOW much, etc).

This is not even mentioning torture and other war crimes committed by our gov't.

[Baby Snooks]

245. But Wall Street loves him...

What else matters in oligarchy but keeping the rich happy?

[SlowDownFast]

224. Indeed. n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

255. Well then it wasn't his fucking doing then was it?

[old mark]

3. I agree with you - I think he has done remarkably well trying to

get many things started successfully despite the GOP-run media attacks and general stupidity in Congress - on both sides.

It all requires a little patience, as the President himself has stated several times.

mark

[FLAprogressive]

4. Same thread different name.

[meegbear]

6. Over and over and over again

[LostinVA]

98. Poutrager!!!

Doesn't that word look French?

[peace13]

5. Obama has broad shoulders, don't worry.

I am happy for you that you have confidence. Lucky you!

[Just-plain-Kathy]

8. THREE WHOLE MONTHS...and he's still keeping the defense cartel rich. n/t

[shadowknows69]

11. No change there yet? How long does it take?

We are running out of time rapidly.

[Dawgs]

44. I know. He should just not try, and let the economy collapse.

:wtf:

[Just-plain-Kathy]

63. You post a WTF smiley to me, and I'll raise you a :shrug:

:shrug: Because I can't see how your response has anything to do with what I posted.

[TheWatcher]

200. The Economy has already collapsed, and is still deteriorating despite the Propaganda Blitz

America has been getting drunk on.

I know, I know.

"Quit Blowing my high."
"You're a Debbie Downer."
"I believe, hope, trust, support, etc, etc, etc,....."

"The same people that lied to us throughout the past two Bubble Economies are all of a sudden telling the truth....."

"I trust the Banks implicitly that they are having record profits despite the fact that they have lied consistently right up to the collapse, and they have no proof except for "Expectations", "Assurances", and "Forecasts", and have magically turned everything around in six weeks despite being on the edge of Nationalization just six weeks ago....."

"I don't need proof of anything to believe the economy is improving, just "Hopes", Assurances", "Beliefs", "Expectations", "Forecasts", Upbeat Rhetoric, and Well-Crafted Propaganda....."

"Bernanke is doing the right thing by monetizing the Debt and devaluing the Dollar...."

"Despite the fact the Banks are really insolvent, I believe they are having record profits because they said so, and I don't need to see the "Stress Test" Results, because they are irrelevant, and they should keep them secret, because we don't want to risk it being interpreted as Bad news....."

"We're having a Recovery right now, and if you don't agree with me, you're a Freeper, Republican, Right Wing Plant, Limbaugh Lover, Disruptor, Troll, etc, etc, etc....."

"The Japanese Export Market has not collapsed and does not exist...."

"Eastern Europe is not on the verge of Collapsing, and does not exist....."

"Iceland has not collapsed, and does not exist...."

"8.5 % Unemployment (15% per U6.) doesn't matter, and doesn't exist....."

"32 Million Americans (1 in 10) Living on Food Stamps doesn't matter, and doesn't Exist...."

"GM Going Bankrupt won't matter, and even if it does happen, it doesn't exist...."

"The Unfunded Debt Liability of The United States is $66 trillion Dollars, it doesn't matter, and it doesn't exist...."

"The CDO/CDS and Derivatives Mess does not Matter, because Geithner will come out and introduce some vaguely worded "Program" that will make me feel good and reassure me, and it doesn't exist....."

"Continuing deterioration and imploding of the Retail Sector does not matter, and does not exist....."

"No matter what happens, there will just be another Bailout or Stimulus Package passed to counter it, so nothing matters and you're just an Eeyore Pouty Pants....."

"The CEO's of all the Institutions that were on the verge of being Nationalized just six weeks ago are telling us they are having record profits, and they don't have any proof, but that doesn't matter, because they are being honest and Obama would never let them do such a nasty, no-good thing as lying to us after this awful collapse, and it doesn't exist...."

"45% of The World's Wealth was destroyed in six months after the Collapse, but it doesn't matter, and it was just Paper Stuff, and it doesn't exist...."

"Continuing Mass Layoffs do not matter, and do not exist, and anything unemployment related is a lagging indicator because that meme makes me feel good and why won't you get with the program and just believe the recovery is here because the TV says so....."

"The G20 had lots of great pictures which means everything is going to be OK and even that France guy was pleased so don't tell me things aren't going well you just don't like Obama or Democrats......"

The Stock market Rally is for real, and I don't know exactly why, I just know it makes me feel good, and it's totally based in reality, and if you don't believe that, you are against Obama and don't know what you are talking about, and you hate Democrats, and you just want bad things to happen, and you're just jealous of Obama, and I can't believe you won't let us all feel good, and you're just a hater, and I believe everything I am told because when our Football team has the ball everything they tell me is true, and we need not scrutinize it, lest we give comfort and aid to the Republicans....."

"Stop telling me any technical or fundamental realities that conflict with my euphoric belief that we are recovering from the largest Collapse in history in six months because we are America and our Football team won and why are you being such a downer and you just don't want to feel good like the rest of us and why don't you go hang out at PrisonPlanet where you belong with all the other doubters and Republicans and naysayers and doom fetishists......"

You know what? I Give Up. The Recovery Is Here. Geithner is Jesus Christ. Summers, Rubin, Greenspan, Bernanke are Apostles. They are double-smart good guys who will save us all.

The Banks are TOTALLY Honest and are profitable again.

Praise Marty Moose.

[SlowDownFast]

226. It's going to collapse regardless. n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. It's Pathetic, Isn't It. It's Like A Bunch Of Little Whiney Ignorant Naderites Have Taken Over.

It's pathetic to watch.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

16. I have a bunch of complaints with Obama

But I'm no Naderite.

[lame54]

57. Tell us WHEN it is Obama season

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

59. Obama season?

I know trout season starts tomorrow.

[TheWatcher]

203. It's Wabbit Season!!!!!!!!!!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5FaG8IkXVqI/RdpfQN1EkkI/AAAAAAAAANc/WANjH3K7tes/s320/wabbit+season.jpg

[shadowknows69]

17. Any criticism of our President is Naderism?

I think we just invented a word.

Naderism (N)- The condition of overly criticizing a politician from "your team" even if they're doing the wrong fucking things.

Naderite (N)- a follower of the philosophy of Naderism.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

Yep, I'm a huge fucking Naderite

:rofl:

[mitchtv]

191. I found a meteor made of Naderite

all shiney and stuff

[omega minimo]

249. Bracelets made of Naderite can heal OMC's condition

:thumbsup:

[cboy4]

34. Who exactly are the whiners?

I know who they are.

[SlowDownFast]

227. So Says "Thank God It Passed!" n/t

[omega minimo]

248. Deleted Sub Thread

[Deja Q]

259. You're usually an intelligent guy...

And chances are pretty good you're right... but, come on, your response is blindly pro-Obama just like how many others' posts are blindly anti-Obama.

Either way, time will tell.

I'm hoping you are the correct individual, however.

[MadHound]

12. Sorry, but events are moving entirely too fast to give him a two year grace period

Hell, we were more than kind towards Clinton, and how did he reward us? Oh, yeah, with the most deregulations of the financial sector by any president, which helped create this mess we're in. NAFTA, '96 Telecom Act, welfare "reform" an huge upswing in the War on Drugs (further stripping away our Constitutional rights), not to mention a half million innocents dead in Iraq.

Sorry, but frankly it is never good to trust any politician, ever. And frankly Obama is proving that he is not worthy of being trusted. More hundreds of billions of dollars to the Wall St. crooks, meanwhile driving our auto industry into the ground, along with the unions. A ratcheting up of a war that is stupid, foolish and frankly illegal, and no real slowdown in Iraq either. No recension of the illegal and unConstitutional laws put in place by the Bush administration, and no pursuit of justice concerning the Bush administration. Continued to pander to RW fundies while throwing our GLBT brothers and sisters under the bus. And the ongoing switch from a once fine public education system towards the creation of a two tiers, privatized school system. Sorry, but there isn't the luxury of two years because frankly in many areas Obama is damaging the fabric of this country and is continuing the policies of the Bush administration. You don't like that, oh well, deal.

Frankly I find your trust and confidence in Obama entirely too naive. Yes, I voted for him, not because I was particularly enthralled by him, but once again because he was the lesser of two evils. However being the lesser of two evils doesn't mean that you're good, it just means that you don't suck quite as bad as your opponent. It does mean that we continue to live under the two party/same corporate master system of government however, which is what we've got to get rid of if we ever want real change in this country.

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. Lesser of two evils, is pretty much why I voted for him. He didn't suck as bad as McCain and that

was it, for me.

[Mari333]

83. ...

:thumbsup:

[rcrush]

148. Thats what we get when they shut all the other parties out.

[SammyWinstonJack]

150. Pretty much. nt

[SlowDownFast]

228. The two party system is a sham. n/t

[Enthusiast]

213. Oh yes, Obama didn't suck

nearly as bad as McCain. McCain represented Bush all over again with a less sinister face. I had high hopes that a President Obama would be on our side in every instance. It turned out I was wrong in my hopes. If President Obama was to change his stance on single payer healthcare and protecting corrupt financial institutions I would change my mind about him. FWIW, I have no confidence that a Hillary Presidency would have been any better.

[leftchick]

26. what he said!

my entire life I have had nothing but a lesser of two evils choice when voting and it sucks.

[closeupready]

43. +1000

Wow you are hitting all these topics out of the ballpark today.

[ThomCat]

184. What you said!

:thumbsup:

[Democracyinkind]

13. You guys should start selling T-shirts on cafepress. Why these threads EVERY DAY?

[empyreanisles]

25. There are equal, if not more, "New Boss Same As The Old Boss" threads as well

We'll stop when you stop.

[Marrah_G]

29. No- no you won't

You will continue to demand lock-step cheerleading and will label anyone not doing so as the enemy........sort of like what the freepers did the last 8 years. Same concept coming from the opposite side.

No thanks, I am not buying the crap you are trying to sell.

[cboy4]

35. The enemy, and in particular, PUMAs.

:eyes:

[leftchick]

95. wtf is this PUMA shit?

seriously, if you do not agree with dear leader's decisions you are a PUMA? oh good god! :eyes:

[LostinVA]

105. Yup, pretty much

Cboy was being sarcastic, btw.

[Dawgs]

45. Asking for patience is NOT "lock-step cheerleading"

Many of us have complained when we feel he has done wrong, but we are still patient. We aren't saying stupid shit like, 'same as the old boss' or 'lesser of two evils'.

There's a big difference. Complaining is one thing. Crying about everything is another.

[Marrah_G]

66. But thesed threads aren't asking for patience really- they are an insistance that people shut up.

I like some of the stuff he has done, I dislike others.

I am sure other Duers opinions on those very issues are the reverse of my opinion.

I won't stop talking about things that I have been advocating for since before Obama was a Senator just because we have a Dem president.

People trying to control the discussion on either side are annoying as hell.

I agree: There are people arguing for the same issues they have been for years and there are others just looking for shit to bitch about.

But after a year of constant bashing and demanding by a certain group my nerves (and I speak only for me)are worn thin and I am likely to lash out at anyone demanding complete loyalty and insisting that people STFU until they deem enough time has gone by.

[ThomCat]

185. "Complaining is one thing. Crying about everything is another."

Yeah, complaining is when you do it. Crying is when the other guy does it. :eyes:

[Democracyinkind]

36. That's funny brother cuz I didn't state my opinion on Obama. Pretty fast to denounce me.

I'm not the opening threads that have popped up every day for 3 months now.

Pro, anti, we've got it. No need to further have these "take sides" threads.

[Marrah_G]

42. First I am not a brother- I am a sister.

And I agree: These threads do nothing but divide.

It's been going on for over a year now in one form or another.

[Democracyinkind]

72. Sorry, Sister, I meant the post previous to yours.

Bother or Sister, doesn't matter because with you I agree :-)

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stillcool]

14. Some people demand perfection...

and have some delusional expectations. Others are in a state of misery that there is a President Obama at all. Don't let it bother you..it's just noise. You ever notice how the posts that require action don't get any replies?

[shadowknows69]

20. Some people demand progress in the face of disaster

When that is what we are promised on the campaign trail.

[stillcool]

38. What's your idea of 'progress'?

What wrongs were you expecting one human being to right in the first 3 months? Does Congress have any part in your demands? Are your priorities the only ones? Is it your timetable or nothing? You must be some prime specimen of the human kind, that your expectation, and judgment of others is so severe. Too bad that progress thing couldn't be applied to 'we the people' using the power we have to influence our own representatives. But that would require knowing what bills are actually in Congress, and use of the telephone. That is progress we won't be seeing for a long, long time..if at all.

[shadowknows69]

46. I'm well aware of what our governmental processes are, thank you kindly

And I know the power the jackass before President Obama was able to wield. So why doesn't our new President, who seems intent on keeping the same level of executive power Bush stole and continues to feed the establisment that got us into this shit, make some executive orders and/or introduce legislation himself. If my civics memory doesn't fail me our President can tell Congress what kind of legislatioin he wants to be signing and how soon.

Also last I checked the President has the power to make treaties, that while needing ratification, could radically alter the way this country does business with the international oligarchs that are looting us. Congress doesn't give him sweeping change in Bill form and he doesn't sign the fucker. There's no way the jellyfish in the majority are going to help the rethugs overturn a veto, no matter how comfy they seem together lately.

[stillcool]

61. George Bush had nothing to do with..

the power he was able to wield. It was freely given. Far as I know the structure of our government, and the power behind it has been in place, and intact for a very long time. I don't think the American interests that have ruled the roost left the day Obama was sworn in. But..hey..it's all good. If people want to put all their eggs in the Obama basket, that's fine. Then they can elect someone else the 'next time' and do it all over again.

[Autumn]

171. That is what amazes me. A fucking idiot

had almost unlimited power, not one ounce of bi-partisanship and had low approval ratings and was able to screw up the country almost to the point of no return with no one stopping him and our Democratic leaders for the most part have been silent. What the fuck is going on ?

[Enthusiast]

215. It is a mystery

And still the media gives Bush henchmen, like Rove, a voice for everything they want to say, no matter how absurd. So the powers behind Bush are still at least partially in control. And Democrats remain silent, for the most part. Mystery is right!

[leftchick]

106. how about hiring fucking economists??

instead of the same wall street thieving assholes who put us here? what excuse is there for that? good lord.

[Hawkowl]

129. Hear! Hear!

He hired Paul Volker and the minute he started to make some noise about how insanely disastorous the Geithner/Summers give away was, he was immediately shunted off to some sideshow office.

Right now this economic crisis is Obama's "Bay of Pigs". He is locked into a group think mentality of advisors from the previous administrations' mentalities. He has no counterpoint to simply perpetuating the Wall Street graft and giveaway. At best, he doesn't even know it! At worst, he has deliberately shut out Stiglitz, Krugman, Reich and ALL other progressive economists who have been the canaries in the coal mine. This crisis will blow up in Obama's face just like the Bay of pigs blew up in Kennedy's.

[leftchick]

130. Summers is a dispicable piece of shit

how obama thinks he will survive this is beyond me.....

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090420/scheer/print?rel=nofollow

<snip>


Summers was a top adviser to the Democratic presidential candidate last year, and that might have enhanced his speaking fees, which seem to have a base rate of $67,500, the amount he received on each of two occasions when he appeared at Lehman Brothers before that company went bankrupt. Lehman had purchased a 20 percent stake in D.E. Shaw while Summers was employed by the hedge fund, and it would be interesting to know if the subject of the overlapping business came up during Summers' visit to Lehman.

Lehman was only one on an impressive list of top financial firms that consulted Summers during a troubled period. Goldman Sachs was so interested in his thoughts that it paid him more than $200,000 for two talks, even though it soon needed $12 billion in taxpayer bailout funds. Citigroup, which has been going through hard times, managed only a $54,000 fee for a Summers rap. Merrill Lynch could pony up only a scant $45,000 for a Summers appearance last November 12, but that was at a point when Merrill was in deep trouble, with the government arranging its sale. Summers, anticipating an appointment in the administration of the newly elected Obama and perhaps wanting to avoid any embarrassment the fee might bring, decided to turn over the $45,000 to a charity.

Why was someone as compromised as Summers made the White House's point man overseeing $2.86 trillion in bailout funds to the financial moguls whom he had enabled in creating this mess and many of whom had benefited him financially? Will no congressional panel ever quiz Summers about his grand theory that the derivatives market required no government supervision because, as he testified to a Senate subcommittee in July of 1998: "the parties to these kinds of contracts are largely sophisticated financial institutions that would appear to be eminently capable of protecting themselves from fraud and counterparty insolvencies...."

Think of the sophisticates at AIG when you read that sentence, and then ask why Summers is once again at large in the public sector. Or take White House spokesman Ben LaBolt's word for it that "Dr. Summers has been at the forefront of this administration's work...to put in place a regulatory framework that will strengthen the financial system and its oversight--all in an effort to help the families across America who have paid a very steep price for risky decisions made by Wall Street executives."

The very same executives that Summers had previously assured us could be trusted without any regulation. Why should we now trust Summers any more than we trust them? Couldn't Summers just take his ill-gotten gains and go hide out in some offshore tax haven? If this was happening in a Republican administration, scores of Democrats in Congress would be all over it, asking tough questions about what exactly did Summers do to earn all that money from the D.E. Shaw hedge fund. As it is, with their silence they are complicit in this emerging scandal of the banking bailout.

[Enthusiast]

218. Is it possible he doesn't know it?

He is a busy guy. Maybe he isn't hearing the other argument. Somehow I doubt it.

[SlowDownFast]

230. Him not knowing is almost as scary as if he does.

That would mean Obama is incompetent.

Either way, we're still fucked.

[stillcool]

167. Is that it? You don't like the..

financial experts the President hired, so you're what? Taking your toys and going home? Your constant use of venomous verbiage is truly the best example of noise I can think of. Profanity is a tool for the ignorant.

[Fire1]

174. Not really. Sometimes profanity is the only verbiage that will

suffice.

[stillcool]

176. Well..if you're that emotional...

that every post requires an expletive, perhaps something else is behind all the blather.

[Fire1]

178. Did I say EVERY post? I think not.

[stillcool]

180. the person I was responding..

to is a habitual user of caustic, derogatory language. I did not think I was addressing your personal use of profanity.

[Fire1]

183. Gotcha.

[Djinn]

195. for some people swearing isn't a big deal

The job I work in requires a thick skin because the f's & c's fly around liberally. It's never bothered me because I grew up in an area and with a family that was much the same.

I try to turn it down when in mixed company but sometimes habit overtakes me - it has nothing to do with my intelligence, emotional state nor vocabulary which is extensive.

Thinking it must and discounting someone's opinion because of it says far more about you than it does about the mentality of the swearer.

[stillcool]

240. Perhaps that is why Fox is so popular....

anyone that can bring down the level of discourse to fuck, shit, and god damn is a winner. And anyone who discounts the fuck, shit, and god damn as tripe has what kind of mentality?

[Djinn]

266. what?

I've never heard swearing on Fox, in fact they're FAR more likely to take your views on it than mine.

I hear it on factory floors, wharfs, building sites and in the streets.

Sorry you might not like it but some of us realise that in the scheme of things people swearing hardly rates on the offense scale.

[stillcool]

272. Fox news doesn't have to actually say..

"Fuck You"..they just bring the discourse down to that level. If you are not really interested in communicating, then derisive, caustic, and inflammatory language works really well.

[Djinn]

274. except you're the only one refusing discourse

I understand that some people don't like swearing, so I try to tone it down in certain circumstances, I also however recognise that not everyone had a nice polite upbringing, not everyone lives in an environment where swearing is hugely inappropriate and I don't ignore what someone is saying just because they use words or phrases that offend SOME people. THAT is closing one's ears off to people from different walks of life and not showing much interest in discourse.

[stillcool]

276. It isn't the words fuck you..

or you suck, or eat shit..it is the rancor directed at another person. Talking at, rather than talking to. If you like to have a conversation with someone who talks at you like that...good for you. I'm sure there is a lot to be divined from "Go fuck yourself".

[Djinn]

278. sigh way to miss the point

carry on ignoring anyone who speaks in a way that brushes you up the wrong way and I'll continue looking past a bit of aggro or some swear words and actually paying attention to what's being said not how. Each to their own.

[SlowDownFast]

231. I thought it was quite succinct and appropriate. n/t

[Enthusiast]

216. That would boost my confidence, leftchick. nt

[SlowDownFast]

229. That would've been a really great start.

But alas, Obama has upheld the Status Quo.

Some Change.

[datasuspect]

153. no one expects perfection,

to claim that is absurd and a terribly ineffective rhetorical ruse.

people are right to expect public servants all the way up to the president to accountable and transparent. having representation that is not beholden to corporate interests would be more beneficial for the majority of americans.

[stillcool]

168. yeah well..actions speak louder than words...

and empty drums beat the loudest. Don't you find it curious that truly knowledgeable people express their opinions without all the personal attacks? And isn't it odd how threads on DU requesting action get no replies?

[Number23]

201. Truth. Every single word of your post

Very nicely done.

[Marrah_G]

15. And I am sick of people freaking out because everyone doesn't think like they do.

You trust him, good for you.

Now stop acting like a toddler and demanding that everyone think like you do.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Yup. Don't scrutinize the bosses and hold them accountable. Just be passive worker drones.

After all, it's not like this country is a (alleged) democracy where the people have a say.

[ThomCat]

188. Right, because worshipping the head of your team is enough.

He'll eventually get around to honoring all his promises. You just have to close your eyes and have enough faith for a really, really long time. :P

Meanwhile, our job is to shout down everyone who dares to question our sainted, perfect leader. That shows our faith in him!

[dbackjon]

19. I am so sick of blind allegiance

[Dawgs]

47. Who's showing blind allegiance? I think they are just asking for patience.

Criticizing specific issues is one thing. Acting like Obama is just like Bush is just fucking stupid.

[Marrah_G]

67. No- the OP was demanding like a spoiled toddler that everyone STFU

[LostinVA]

103. Exactly

[ThomCat]

189. "Patience" is a code for STFU

It means, Wait longer, and longer, and a lot longer still before opening your mouth. And all the time you're being "patient" and not speaking up, who's speaking up for us and making sure Obama represents our goals?

While we're being "patient" he's being lobbied and pulled successfully by the right. He's compromising and moving to the right. He's breaking campaign promises he made to us and sacrificing our goals.

If we're not holding his feet to the fire NOW, then who is?

[mitchtv]

192. I think you had better read the Op again

I see blind allegiance

[Enthusiast]

219. There is a very narrow window

of opportunity to get this economy turned around. If President Obama fails in his attempt to correct the economy we will see a resurgence of Republican power. This is my greatest fear. If we must raise hell to get the message across to President Obama, it will be far less painful than the alternative.

[leftchick]

22. he had his chance regarding the economy

and hired the same fuckers who created this mess. I do not have your luxury of time. I am disabled with a type 1 diabetic son and a husband just about out of work, which means, HELLLLLLOOOO, no health insurance for my son and I who need about 2500.00 a month in medications alone. So quit your fucking whining. You apologists make me sick.... :puke:

[Dawgs]

49. "he had his chance regarding the economy"

Is he finished trying to fix this fucking mess? Jesus, no way can you be that stupid.

[leftchick]

92. another bot

bow to your leader comrade. I am so glad you have a secure financial and health care future. The majority of we serfs do not.

[FudaFuda]

23. I've never 'trusted' any politician.

Pres. Obama was the better candidate available to us last Nov 4th, to be sure. But that doesn't mean he has earned my trust, or that I intend to ever 'trust' any politician or the government at large. "question authority' is as valid with this administration as any that's come before it.

[Dawgs]

51. So why are you here?

Just to complain?

[FudaFuda]

64. So why are you here?

Just to show obeisance?

Nothing good ever comes of blind faith in leaders.

[LostinVA]

100. Agreed

[T Wolf]

24. It DOESN'T take a weatherman... It is not the accomplishments that are expected by now, it

is the direction that is obvious.

Putting Wall Streeters in charge of fixing Wall Street.

Surging the war against the Middle East.

Condemning health care to the for-profit sector for "saving."

Continuing the secrecy through the "national security" sham.

Giving the Bushistas a get-out-of-jail-free pass.

Not actively supporting unions and the legislation that would help them.

etc.

etc.

etc.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. All of which his loyal supporters here seem to approve of, or if not, certainly give him a pass on.

I wonder why that is? :shrug:

[FLAprogressive]

31. Because apparently having a "D" in office will satisfy some.

[leftchick]

136. blind allegiance

or ignorance, or perhaps they are billionaires and not affected by obamas horrible choices?

[FLAprogressive]

33. Bingo.

[Vidar]

121. Good summary.

[cboy4]

28. How many times do we have to hear this a day?

:puke:

[Marrah_G]

30. Until you give in and allow yourself to be educated in the "correct" way of thinking.

[HughMoran]

37. Is that called for?

Why can't you accept another's point of view without the snarkasm?

[Lilith Velkor]

110. Yes, it is called for

Why can't we discuss politics - on a political discussion board no less - without the childish demands to stop discussing politics?

[LostinVA]

139. There's no other way to take these "STFU demands"

[Dawgs]

52. How many times do we have to hear that the DEMOCRAT president is 'the lesser of two evils'?

We are allowed to have our opinion, but this is a site for Democrats.

[cboy4]

65. As you know, you have your own forum to gush and post

photos of Obama kissing his wife, and carry on about the greatest president in history.

All of the criticisms I've heard about Obama at DU are valid.

I don't agree with all of them, but I see the reasoning behind them.

On the other hand, many of the people in your forum don't think the guy can do a thing wrong.

And that's ridiculous.

[Djinn]

197. read the site rules again

for Democrats and OTHER PROGRESSIVES. The owners of this site have done an admirable job at actually sticking to their goal of a big tent and have not shut people down simply for not toeing a Dem line.

I can't be a Democrat but in the 6 years I've been here I've been very open about the fact that were I an American citizen I STILL wouldn't be.

Admins are OK with - take up your issues with them

[90-percent]

32. He's doing a lot

Ed Schultz last night made a point of discussing Obama's TO DO LIST for America and the World. One hell of a nice agenda.

What I cannot fathom is why the Obama Administration is so accommodating with the Bush desecration of our Constitutional Rights??? WTF????

I want all of my Constitutional Rights restored to original condition!

How can our Constitutional Law Professor of a President allow these horrible un-American Bush attacks on our Constitution to stand?

FWIW - At my Congressman's Town Hall Meeting last Sunday, the biggest applause from the audience came when I was doing my duty as a concerned citizen and telling Congressman Larson to his face that the Bush Administration are traitors and should be prosecuted. I've read so much that Congress is not moving on this because of a lack of "pressure" from their districts. I also mentioned the 9/11 report is considered by some to not be the model for government investigations and is considered by some to be a cover up and/or whitewash.

What amazed me is how many attend these meetings with a FOX NEWS information bank! That is really grinding our public discourse to a complete halt when you are Fox oriented and start debating all the "facts" you learned on FOX that are completely bogus fabrications! (AKA: BULLSHIT!)

To Congressman Larson's great credit, he runs a damn good town hall meeting. No staff handling any part of the meeting, no talking points. Two and a half hours of spontaneous full and sincere responses to all the questions from his constituents. I was impressed with Larson's earnestness in completely understanding what was on the minds of the people that came to hear him and speak to him.

Others mentioned last Friday's Bill Moyer's Journal with William T. Black and he seemed like he and his staff will actually take the time to watch it. (I think that show is the best piece availble in MSM for explaining the bank bailout)

I may have been merely appeased, but it makes me feel like I'm doing some small part to get Washington pols to listen to us average Americans. Gives me a much better sense of accomplishment than preaching to the Choir here on DU.

-90% Jimmy

[closeupready]

39. Why do you hate Obama?

He asked voters to give him feedback, and he said he would listen.

Would be irresponsible not to criticize if warranted.

[Dawgs]

55. Calling him names, such as 'the lesser of two evils' is not honest discussion.

Criticizing is one thing, piling on attacks is something different all together.

[closeupready]

58. I'll give you that.

I just don't like being told (in some form or another) that, for example, when he/his administration comes out in support of continued illegal wiretapping, that we must remain silent.

[Marrah_G]

68. To many people most elections are about the lesser of two evils.

[bvar22]

164. What you fail to understand....

..is that for those of us who have fervently OPPOSED the ruthless Wars on People who did not attack us....
Obama really is the lesser of two evils.
This is neither exaggeration nor hyperbole.

[anaxarchos]

40. "I trust", "I'm sick", "I doubt", "I'm confident", "I believe"....

I, I, I... me, me, me... I believe, I support, I think.

Notice a certain theme?

You might start by talking to, and for the benefit of, others.

You "believing" don't mean jack. The "me" decade is long over. Fight for your position substantially or be sick (or "laugh out loud" or whatever).

You "believe" enough to stay in Iraq and Afghanistan another "couple of years"? Fine. "I believe" you are delusional.

[shadowknows69]

54. I believe they should sign up and go fight

Just like I'd say to any chickenhawk fucking republican spouting the same shit.

WAR IS OVER IF WE WANT IT.
-John Lennon

[Dawgs]

56. Huh? Aren't you doing the same thing?

Your post was the dumbest thing I've read all day.

[anaxarchos]

74. Actually, yours was.

It got there by you calling my argument "dumb". I wasn't making an argument. I was mimicking the OP.

Let me make an argument for you:

Most of the people of the United States have no "interests" whatever in continuing the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. These wars are too costly, ill-conceived, murderous, and even illegal. There is nothing to be gained and much to be lost by continuing them, let alone for another two years. The arguments advanced in their favor are trivial, cynical, hypocritical, and ultimately self-destructive. The continuation of unjust wars based on "politics" or "what the Republicans will say" is beyond cynical.

Now, let's see your argument for giving those wars another "coupla years", which is NOT identical to the arguments advanced by G.W. Bush, or which is NOT contingent on YOUR "trust", "belief", or predisposition toward the current President.

[TheWatcher]

204. Oh and you've posted SUCH Shakespearean Wisdom so far.

:rofl:

[Runcible Spoon]

48. Sorry, no can do.

Some of us care a lot more about issues that affect everyday people than we do about the personal career of one politician and his apparently fragile and delicate feelings (judging by his overwrought defenders, anyway).

[empyreanisles]

60. If Obama prosecuted Bush/Cheney, but screwed up everything else

...would you still be happy?

Cause it seems that's all the detractors here care about. Abstract "perfection" instead of dealing with today's problems in common sense ways.

P.S. -- I'm hiding this thread cause I'm sick of the BS.

[Runcible Spoon]

73. Nope-I expect more from Obama.

Nobody is calling for perfection. Your idea of "common sense" is political cowardice and appeasing the corporate masters to others.

Go ahead and hide the thread...I would be embarrassed if I erected such weak straw men too. :shrug:

[anaxarchos]

75. "Abstract perfection"?

To protect and defend?
It is the only thing he took an oath to do.

BTW, yet another "sick" person...

[empyreanisles]

77. You have no right to have that Malcom avatar ....

if you plan to continually dump on the first black President.

[SammyWinstonJack]

78. .

:wow: Are you deliberately missing the point of this thread? :eyes:

[anaxarchos]

80. You should read Malcom, sometime...

There are not three paragraphs in all that Malcom wrote about the Democratic Party that could be reproduced on this site without it being purged (unless it is out of iconic respect). There is not an atom of support for a single one of Obama's perspectives in Malcom.

Would you like to test this thesis?

[empyreanisles]

82. A brother would support a brother who is generally, headed in the right direction

Instead of sniping at every little petty disagreement. I don't know what color you are, but if you ARE black, you should understand this.

[Marrah_G]

88. Holy crap--- funniest post I've seen here in a long time !

You are so fucking clueless that I can't even get annoyed, all I can do is laugh at your display of complete ignorance.

[empyreanisles]

160. So in essence you're saying that black men should not support

other black men who are trying to do positive things. Despite the shit reputation we have in this country and the continued undercurrent of racism, we need to give up on each other at the first sign of friction.

You find this laughable. Stance noted.

[Marrah_G]

234. You are making yourself look like a moron and should never discuss Malcom again....ever.

[anaxarchos]

132. Are you asking...

...if I'm white? The answer is no. Are you asking if I agree with the principle you elucidate? The answer is yes. But it isn't and can never be open-ended. You said it yourself with the condition, "generally in the right direction". You can never be "generally heading in the right direction" if you are continuing or extending the killing of people - people of color, mind you - in the name of "American Interests". That can't stand and nothing can be "more important" than that. Your pride is admirable but your judgment is less so. The principle you articulate didn't just fall from the sky. It was created for a reason.

Take my advice (given more softly, this time) and try listening to or reading a bit of Malcolm before you try to use him as a debating point. There is nobody who reaches out of the grave more forcefully than he does.

[Djinn]

202. hilarious

you think Malcolm X always supported people's position just because they were black?

Honestly have you ever read any of his works? heard any of his speeches? ever?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[SlowDownFast]

236. Methinks you are on the wrong discussion board, "brother".

This isn't about race. But you seem intent on making it so.

[JVS]

270. Do you know what Malcolm X thought of the most prominent brother in the Civil Right's movement?

[Marrah_G]

86. Hahahahahahhahahaha..... ~breathe~ .......... Hahahahahahahahaha

:rofl:

[FLAprogressive]

102. This guy is a card isn't he?

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

143. hahahahaha

Oh wait, you're series!

:rofl:

[Political Heretic]

172. LOL holy shit dude......

:rofl:

[SlowDownFast]

235. Now that is just ASSinine.

You're pulling a race card when the discussion has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with race and has not even been brought up.

[Djinn]

199. and once again

someone who's been here for a few friggin weeks is having a whine about how people who've been posting here and been financially supporting DU for years think and post - beyond hilarity

[noiretextatique]

162. in defense of obama

his skin is much thicker than his cheerleaders think.

[frylock]

53. in a couple of years?!

fuck that shit.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. Only fools trust politicians and I am sick of posters

who wish to stamp out discussion, who are just so upset that everyone is not a clone of themselves. The thing you call 'trust' I call dereliction of a citizen's duty in a democratic republic, just so you know. These calls for faith are harmful to the nation. I find them to be dispicalbe, mindless, and the objective seems to be to neuter the President and make him into a celebrity icon instead of a political force.
In short, the ardents do great damage. I see you as being utterly incorrect. Same as you see me. You do not have the high ground. Your position is one of servility, worthy of a subject but not of a citizen. You come crawling on your belly, bowing to power. That is your choice.
"To announce that there should be no criticism of the President, or that we should stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only servile and unpatriotic, but it is morally treasonable to the American People." TR, American President.
Give me your best qoute to support your theory, which is the opposite of Roosevelt's. It will have to come from Nixon or the like, but I am sure you can find one, even from your kneeling position.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. Here's a couple of quotes from a well known Democrat who disagrees with the OP.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

[Bluenorthwest]

76. I came back to the thread to see

if the OP came up with a counter quote. But of course not. I like yours!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. I'm afraid you'll be in for a long wait for a reply from the OP.

Unless he/she starts plumbing the history books for quotes from monarchs.

[TheWatcher]

206. He's a Debbie Downer! He hates Democrats! He's just Jealous! I'll Bet he's A Freeper!

Oh, wait.....

[SammyWinstonJack]

70. Well said. nt.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. Thanks

I hesitate to speak in direct terms like that, but at a certain point the assumption of the high ground has to be challenged.

[billyoc]

71. How sock are you? Too sick to type?

Don't worry, plenty of other administration apologists will take up the mantle. :eyes:

[davekriss]

84. I trust Obama

But the situation is a little like what any truly progressive President will face, according to Betrand Gross in Friendly Fascism. Obama's options will tend to be limited to choices that first and foremost serve the "establishment", the already-advantaged ruling class that presides over our illusory democracy. The needs of the many are secondary and coincidental to these fascist first principles. As long as needs don't violate first principles, some progress can be made, but progress is limited, boxed in, confined in the very class-consciously constructed fascist cage.

Some might say it will take a revolution to break out of that cage, which is not likely to happen given the mollification of the American prole. I say, still, it is at times like this -- if establishment fears grow of a swarming, angry and restless rascal multitude -- that at least great FDR-like strides forward can be made. I've got my fingers crossed. Universal healthcare, anyone? :)

[Zenlitened]

112. Excellent post.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[rcrush]

149. Nice

:thumbsup:

[Mari333]

85. STOP PICKING ON OBAMA

[SammyWinstonJack]

87. .

:spray:

[FLAprogressive]

101. Excuse me....but why haven't you commented on the daily Obama picture thread in GD:P

With "chill the fuck out, I got this." and "The President Eats Ice Cream"????

:P

[Individualist]

166. ROFL

Wish I could recommend your post. :thumbsup:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

89. Consider it a good thing.

You can figure out who the ignorant know-nothing blowhard are.

Really separate the wheat from the chaff.

[cherish44]

90. Yeah we're not all skipping on rainbows and whistling zippedy do dah out our assholes after 3 months

but then I figure he's probably privy to a lot more information on these very complex issues like the war than we who think we know everything are. And you got to realize with the 'Pukes hellbent on being crybaby obstructionists he might have to plan his strategies in a very stealth way. Being a mere mortal he's going to make mistakes and some of his ideas will fail. But as far as leadership goes, I fell a HELL of a lot better now than I did when the BFEE was in control of everything.

[Cha]

91. Obama's working hard for us but that doesn't

matter to the hatin' pisser and moaners.

[LostinVA]

97. To quote Political Heretic: "It's not the speed, it's the direction."

I never knew until the last few weeks that the Dems are fascists.

:shrug: Who knew???

Oh, and :popcorn:

[polichick]

104. Maybe they could shut this place down until enough time has passed for discussion.

:sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

108. "Tomorrow" never comes, eh?

[TheWatcher]

205. It can be just like Joe's Crab Shack.

[walldude]

109. Obama has done some really good things

and he has done some really stupid things. People have a right to call him out when they feel he is heading in the wrong direction on an issue.

Frankly DU is going to end up losing a lot of people thanks to the fact that any time someone says anything about Obama that doesn't praise him to the highest heavens they are inundated with threads like this one. And apparently, it already has, many of my favorite posters have not been heard from in a long time..

You may be sick of "people not giving him a chance" but there are many people who are sick of the war, sick of not working, sick of not having health care, sick of the drug war, sick of the immigration issue, sick of losing their homes, sick of living in tent cities, sick of losing their life savings, sick of real life issues, not some rantings on a crazy political board.


Two final points, first I really don't think you want to use Bush as a benchmark to compare Obama to. If you think Obama is going to be the greatest president ever then you need to stop comparing him to the worst president ever.

Next all these "Leave Obama Alone" threads look as bad as that damn "Leave Britney Alone" video.

[SammyWinstonJack]

114. .

:thumbsup:

[SIMPLYB1980]

111. Don't worry about them.

It's just Naderites and stealth Freepers trying to get you down. Most everyone I know thinks President Obama is doing a good job, and even a few republicans friends of mine don't hate him like some "liberals" or "progressives" on this board.

[EFerrari]

125. That's some persecution fantasy you have going there. n/t

[Enthusiast]

220. Fantasy is right.

Expressing concern that we are going in the wrong direction does not hardy equate hate.

[Generic Other]

128. I Have Been a DU stealth freeper since 2001 and all I have is a few 1000 posts

I'm like so stealthy I didn't even know!!! Thanks. Thanks to those who have helped me to see the truth! All those 1000s of phony posts I made calling Bush a LOWLIFE MOFO every other day were a clever ruse on my part. Wow. Had you all fooled, didn't I? I was so good. Fooled the morans. Just bided my time until I had a chance to turn my true vitriol against a democratic administration.

I might as well admit here and now that it was hard not blowing my cover. All those years I was rabidly pretending to froth at the mouth about everything Bush said, did and thought, I was really having an affair with Bob Boudelang and sending nude pics of myself to Tom DeLay! Jesus Fucking Dim-witted Christ! And worse, I TWITTERed with Ted Nugent!

I secretly dedicated myself to the goal of undermining the present Democratic administration as early as 2001 when I protested Bush's Inauguration. We Naderites and stealth freepers on DU can play innocent, but everyone knows this was the masterplan all along! We pretended to support Obama even going so far as to vote for him so as not to blow our cover. It was always so obvious what we were up to.

And now here we come with our freeper cells of Manchurian candidates asking questions. Wanting action. Expecting results.

:eyes:

[LostinVA]

141. The dog barks at midnight after the tabby cat meows when the moon is full

[LostinVA]

140. Glad to know I'm either a Naderite or a stealth Freeper

I've been incredibly skilled at flying under the radar yea all these many years and many posts. But gosh, you got me! You finally sniffed me out!

:eyes:

[SIMPLYB1980]

154. LoL! Could be.

I do know what I said was not totaly true. Their are legit arguments going on right now. Their are also people that post on here to break the support for Obama. I'm fine with all he's done so far, I don't agree with all of it but I never expected him to do everything I wanted. Anyway sorry for paintings with such a large brush to any I may have offended. Have a good weekend,

[TheWatcher]

207. Oh, no worries.

We're quite used to you talking with both feet in your mouth.

:rofl:

[TheWatcher]

208. Delete. Wrong Place.

[SlowDownFast]

238. "I do know what I said was not totaly true."

Yup.

Not to mention it made you look like a real ass, and long-time "stealth Freeper" DU'rs (including myself) are now laughing at you.

[omega minimo]

250. EEEEeeeeeeeuuuuwww

[Djinn]

217. thanks for the education

I always thought that being far left in even Australian/UK terms (not to mention a 15 year labor activist who willingly dropped my own income by nearly 20k a year to work for unions) meant I couldn't be a freeper, also that not having ever voted for Nader meant that I couldn't be a 'Naderite' but now I've been schooled :rofl:

[SlowDownFast]

237. "Naderites and stealth Freepers..."

:eyes:

Do yourself a favor:

Put down the Kool Aid.

[omega minimo]

251. It's OMCola

[MercutioATC]

113. I AM giving him a chance...

...and as soon as he stops fucking up the economy and starts on the right path, I'll be the first to sing his praises.

Until then, I'm going to express dissatisfaction with his performance on economic issues.

[Skittles]

115. I am fed up with you fucking whiners

who cannot seem to understand that free speech is ANY TIME, not a set time limit

[SeattleGirl]

175. That's very true, Skittles

And in fairness, would that not also include the right to whine at any time?



(Please don't kick my ass! :evilgrin: )

[muffin1]

116. Two issues for me

1. He needs to do and say a hell of a lot more about equal rights for gay people
2. Warrantless wiretapping - it needs to stop now

Other than those...I LOVE him!:thumbsup: And I couldn't have been more proud during their European Tour!

[nichomachus]

117. Anyone who trusts any politician is a fool

There are some I like better than others, but I learned -- the hard way -- never to trust them. And that's especially true in a system where the government is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street.

[Deja Q]

134. Then why vote?

[nichomachus]

138. Good question

It doesn't have anything to do with what I said, but it's a good question.

Some politicians are better than others -- which would be a good argument in favor of voting -- but it doesn't necessarily follow that you should put absolute trust in them.

I may hire an accountant because I think he/she is the best available person for the job. I'm still going to have the books audited.

Remember, in the US we have been reduced to voting for the "least worst candidate." That isn't a trust builder.

[HughBeaumont]

118. Honestly, I don't think most people's problem is with Obama.

Obama is a man who genuinely WANTS to do good, but let's face it: he can't.

I think their problem is with the corporations/wealthy that run them that obviously still run everything and need to be appeased above all. Wealthy people look at us as useful pieces of oxygen thievin' dogshit. Nothing more. They loved the Gilded Age when we knew our station in life and had the good sense to stay there. No pesky middle class to suppress their cash grab. Now that we're here and have rights and a voice, they can't fire all of us because they're now catching a glimpse of what could happen should shit REALLY hit the fan (like it did with our far braver ancestors who had nothing to lose in the turn of the century). Capitalism isn't fashionable nowadays. People are fast souring on this crap brand of laissez fail.

The other problem is that the only way to stop unspoken corporate rule is with violent overthrow of this old white man cabal by hundreds of millions of people, ubiquitously.

Then, you'll see which side the Police, the military, the wanna-be "soliders" (i.e. "yes massah" freepers) and the so-called "teabag" brigade are really on.

The reason this will never happen is because it takes too many people already Super-Glue affixed to televisions and iPods to care. It would also result in bloodshed this nation has never seen, worldwide economic collapse, a 20 year recovery period (one RIPE for totalitarianism and a dystopia worse than four decades of Republican presidents would give us) and hope that the people who lead us out of the rubble won't become as over-the-top greedy as this bunch of assholes has.

Bill Hicks once said:

"But there's no hope in Clinton," he continues. "It's just a handful of people that run everything, and that's provable.... I have this feeling that whoever's elected president, like Clinton was, no matter what promises you make on the campaign trail - blah, blah, blah - when you win, you go into this smoky room with the twelve industrialist, capitalist scumfucks that got you in there, and this little screen comes down... and it's a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before, which looks suspiciously off the grassy knoll.... And then the screen comes up, the lights come on, and they say to the new president, 'Any questions?'

"Just what my agenda is."

I often wonder how true that is. Maybe we should ask said scumfucks if it is so.

Or maybe we shouldn't wait to ask.

[Fire1]

177. On point, HughBeaumont. There are still too many with too

much to lose. Nobody is going to do anything but sit back and bitch on a message board. That is the extent of it. There is a protest tomorrow in front of the city county bldg. in the city near where I live and only 134 people have signed up to attend. I saw where only one or two people signed up in other states. What does that tell you?

[ZombieHorde]

119. Why do you trust Obama? nt

eta: Why do you trust anyone you don't personally know?

[Starry Messenger]

120. Nice flamebait.

:thumbsup: Points off for lack of originality, though.

[Stinky The Clown]

122. Can't this crap be kept in GD:Cheerleaders?

[fascisthunter]

123. most of us are sick of air heads whinning about the criticism

President Obama is a big boy, an adult, so I think he and his admin can handle it.

"I'm fully confident in Obama and I believe he is going to be the greatest president in all of history."

BASED ON WHAT? Belief???? Jayzus... get a grip.

[upi402]

124. watch the walk, ignore the talk.

don't be naive, look at the evidence before you.

[EFerrari]

126. It's not my place to believe or trust politicians. n/t

[cadmium]

127. I am with you - there is a partisan

War going on. Right now we have our guys and they have there guys. Issues disagreements are only one dimension of the political realities. Disavowing some policies without the histrionics is more likely to get positive results. The histrionics play into the hands of the right and limbaughs operation chaos. Call your congress people. For every liberal caller limbaugh probably gets two hundred,

[Pastiche423]

131. Isn't it uncomfortable wearing those blinders all of the time?

Unless he drastically changes his ways, he ain't gonna be "the greatest president in all of history". He's gonna be a one timer.

[Fire1]

181. His approval ratings say different. So, that would give him

the impression that he's doing what the people want or is at least going in the right direction.:shrug:

[Pastiche423]

186. So, are you saying he's stupid enough to believe in polls

when he's being flooded w/emails, letters and calls that say the opposite?

[Fire1]

256. Who can be certain of the contents of the e-mails, calls and

letters? He's long since made it known that he does not intend to make decisions based on poll results.

[Pastiche423]

258. You just contradicted your post # 181

So, which is it?

[Fire1]

263. "So, that WOULD give him the impression..." were he

relying on polls. I'm saying, for the sake of argument, that his approval ratings are pretty substantial to indicate anything other than a second term, as it stands now.

[Pastiche423]

264. Lame

Way lame.

[Fire1]

268. "lame" is a weak rebuttal.

[Pastiche423]

271. lol

[Deja Q]

133. I hope so too, and a couple days ago I posted what I believed was the situation...

(banks a side-effect of a bigger problem and why I support the bailouts.)

It dropped like a stone because I think somebody reported that Britney had a boobjob or a brain implanted or something and that got all the popularity...

Oh well.

[depakid]

135. Obama's brought this on himself via his economic team of proven failures

and to some extent, by his perceived disinterest in accountability. It's possible that the latter's going to change- but it looks like the die is cast in the Clinton mold on the former.

[closeupready]

137. Interesting that you say that - if I recall correctly, you supported the TARP bailout,

correct? Who on his team is a 'proven failure' in your opinion? (Personally, I think they all are.)

[depakid]

146. Yep- like many economists, around the world, I didn't want to see a complete systemic meltdown

That said, one would have "hoped" that once Obama got into office, we'd see break from the policies that caused the problems in the 1st place (and that a new administration would pay attention to the folks that got it right- as opposed to those who had a major hand in causing the disaster throughout the 90's and 00's).

Not because Obama had been anything other than center right with respect to financial and economic policies, but because it was so glaringly obvious by that point.

So color me disappointed- though not necessarily surprised.

[Bluebear]

142. 'I trust. I'm sick. I doubt. I'm confident. I believe.'

:eyes:

[rollingrock]

144. He promised to start withdrawing from Iraq immediately

As the CiC, he certainly has the power to do that.

He basically lied.

[rcrush]

147. Our government hasnt ever given us a reason to trust it.

Its going to be hard for a lot of people to just accept what they are saying now.

Democrat or Republican. They all have their corporate masters. I'm not saying that Obama is out right lying about everything and he's out to destroy us. But I'm not just gonna believe everything he says just because he's a democrat.

[LooseWilly]

198. The nice shiny hope is now

... nothing more than relief, as it could've been worse.

Now it's back to watching to see what will be judged not worth the political cost to do right, rather than the same way as always...

Crossing my fingers and hoping for the best is not the same as Hope.

Ahh well, who really believed it would be any different?

[blondeatlast]

151. Mudesi again in the corner of the room shouting "look at me, look at ME!"

Yaaaawn...

[Faryn Balyncd]

155. (Fall into line, you freethinking idiots! How do you expect us to duplicate the GOP propaganda ma...

.....machine if you won't be team players????? Get on message!!!! Get on message!!!! get on message.......... )


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8333599



:sarcasm:







(The GOP could never have won without their dittoheads!!! Do you want to mess it up for us????)




:sarcasm:

[Political Heretic]

156. It's not about SPEED its about DIRECTION.

[lib2DaBone]

158. We are very fortunate to have Obama in the White House....

... but there is an elephant in the living room.

He needs to get rid of Timmy Geithner and Larry Summers. Get out of Iraq and quit wasting money.

He needs to put America to work making solar and wind power and sustainable living conditions. (Just yesterday... the Feds said that China and other countries are attacking our Electrical grid computers)

The clock is ticking .... Tick-tick-tick-tick..... <BOOM> ...

[Faryn Balyncd]

165. By the way, Iraq is not the only war that has far overextended its moral justification.......

Like most Americans, I believed that going in to Afghanistan in 2002 to close down the training camps was justified.

But that has NOTHING to do with what we are doing in Afghanistan 7 years later.

I cannot determine an exact time at which the war in Afghanistan outlasted its justification (and I realize there are those who disagree with me, and who believe the Afghan invasion was never justified), but it appears clear to me, that in any event the justification for military action in Afghanistan ended years ago.

We have turned a justified police action into a bogus excuse to attempt to run that part of the world forever.

And its time to end the Afghan War.

[ima_sinnic]

161. I "gave him a chance" and all I got was robbed so the wallstreet fat cats could get their yachts

and jets and "bonuses."

I "gave him a chance" and heard him sneer at the idea of legalizing marijuana, alienating about 75% of the people who got him into office.

I "gave him a chance" to fulfill his big LIE that habeas corpus would be restored "like yesterday"--that was supposed to be numero uno to "restore our dignity in the eyes of the world" or some such bullshit. We can see how that is sooo NOT happening--au contraire, he seems to relish being the little banana republic lawless dictator to whom a "constitution" is some abstract idea that applies to other people--along with warrantless wiretapping, his other newfound unconstitutional power. that's given the "constitutional scholar" a real fucking chance to show that he is a fraud.

I don't think I can afford to give him any more "chances," economically, morally, or ethically. I don't like to be treated like a fool by a con artist.

[lib2DaBone]

170. Yes. You are correct on everything. Nothing I could add to that...

We did not elect someone to be 'right' of center. (at least I didn't) .

I expected CHANGE. Change mean: out of Iraq, bring American Jobs home, Change tax laws that benefit the swindlers, and give us the dignity of National Health Care.

Speaking of Health Care... you mean we can flush $10 Billion a month down the toilet in Iraq.... and we can't provide for our children for basic heallth care? C'Mon Man... get real here......

[Fire1]

179. And I think that's what is pissing people off. He did not run

center right. He ran center left, at the very least. I knew he wasn't progressive. If he had been he would not have won and I was satisfied with that. I was confident that going center left would enable him to work effectively to restore the 'middle class.' Not in my wildest dreams did I see any of this coming, except Afghanistan, with which I happen to agree.

[SammyWinstonJack]

222. Obama found a nifty way to provide our children basic health care.

A regressive 'sin' tax on tobacco products. Brilliant! :eyes:

[sendero]

163. It only took him two weeks..

... to hire the architects of this economic debacle to write his economic policy. To decide to bail out Wall Street instead of main street.

I don't need to wait two years to know he's making a huge mistake.

And I still prefer him over ANY Republican, but he's pretty much disappointed me in almost every important policy area I can think of, the war, dealing with the Bush crimes, and the economy.

So, I basically assume that he is a puppet just like the dictatorTot was.

[stillcool]

169. the bailout of the banking industry..

happened before he won the election. Obviously you didn't need to wait until he was sworn in to know he made a mistake. And I agree with you. He never should have run for President. Some DU'er like yourself would be the perfect person for that position. I hope you don't have to wait two more years, before you see someone more to your liking.

[sendero]

221. Hey...

... the bailout was into 300 billion, he's added at trillion. Please don't try to LIE and claim that he had no choice, that won't work.

[stillcool]

241. The bailout was for 750 billion...

and it has not all been used yet. Are you citing articles that state the amount 'may go up to' a trillion? Why are you calling me a liar?

[TheWatcher]

211. And therin lies the rub.

"It only took him two weeks to hire the architects of this economic debacle to write his economic policy. To decide to bail out Wall Street instead of main street."



Unfortunately one of the many.

[Deja Q]

254. That conference room must smell real bad.

[Deja Q]

253. Well, some have said that old phrase... "...keep your enemies closer".

Of course, if you can believe the phrase or those who believe anybody would do such a thing.

Economy was issue #1 for me. I knew, before the election, the wars were important - to be dealt with correctly. President Obama hasn't failed there.

But the economy and jobs; 70% of what I've read is disheartening and 100% of that I've found on DU.

Is there a greater good about maintaining the status quo? Saving the banks - well, I posted that half a week ago... but without the jobs to go along with it, then it's an oversight or a swindle or something; I'm certainly confused.

[scarletwoman]

173. Only a fool would trust ANY politician.

[Djinn]

193. don't need to "give him a chance"

on issues where he already enunciated his policies and they SUCK.

On issues where he has enunciated good policies but just hasn't acted on them yet, yeah sure wait and see makes sense, but it's juvenile to suggest that people need to wait before they criticize WHAT HE'S ALREADY DONE.

I don't need to wait years to know he's 100% committed to the bullshit rape and pillage contracts that Iraq is locked into.

I don't need to wait to know that a half a BILLION dollar embassy in Iraq sure as shit ISN'T just an embassy

I don't need to wait to know it's BULLSHIT to claim that the insurance vampires need a "seat at the table" when discussing health care

I don't need to wait to know that rewarding bloodsucking bankers for being blood suckers while doing jack shit for average people being crushed by crappy mortgages worth more than their crappy houses is BULLSHIT policy.

Honestly if you have such a huge objection to what is being posted take it up with the admins, you'll probably get short shrift though because they're demonstrably more comfortable with free expression than you are.

[scarletwoman]

243. Awesome post! Very well said!

Reality is such a drag for the folks who wanted to see their hero enthroned and everybody living happily ever after in Obamaland.

sw

[Deja Q]

261. Haven't kept up on everything, but the bankers aren't the direct cause...

People losing jobs, being "underemployed", and jobs not paying enough so people can pay back the problems IS the problem -- or rather more likely as being the problem.

Until President Obama incontrovertibly proves otherwise on jobs, my vote on the economy is up for grabs. (And I've read posts and articles that can go either way. It's a waiting game. I'll be patient. We all should be. But if you get tired of waiting or don't want to, go out into the streets and act like a nitwit. Best of luck to you. Nobody is going to believe you.)

[Djinn]

265. wtf

has your post got to do with mine?

I didn't list a million ways in which the US could improve your horrendous poverty gap because it wasn't the point.

It was a response to the numpties that keep claiming we have to wait & see when many issues are already enunciated and SUCK.

What on friggin earth is your 'act like a nitwit on the streets' actually about?

Do you think there are only two political actions, voting and rioting? that's awfully sad & if so I suggest you don't lecture and patronise those that ARE aware of and active in a broad range of non rioting actions :eyes:

[omega minimo]

196. Do you know how US government (supposedly) works?

[TheWatcher]

210. SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

IBELIEVEITRUSTI'MCONFIDENTISUPPORTYOUJUSTHATEDEMOCRATSDEBBIEDOWNERFREEPERPANTS!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111

:sarcasm:

[TheWatcher]

209. And the amount of replies by the OP engaging or countering ANY of the engaging, thoughtful replies

to this drivel of a flamebait Post:

0

[Djinn]

214. to be fair it's hard to counter

thoughtful and factual posts adequately when your political acuity boils down to "I like the guy"

[KoKo]

239. Beware those who guard the bridges....

:D

[mudesi]

244. What Do You Want Me To Say?

It's been three months. Three.

For fuck's sake. You guys expect the guy to be like Merlin or something where he can just wave his hands in the air and all will be turned around in an instant.

Let me say it again: Three months.

Three.

[Djinn]

275. have you even read the responses to your OP

at all?

It's got nothing to do with how long he's been there, do you really think anyone is stupid enough to think that nirvana should be now be dawning? are you really THAT obtuse?

People complain NOT about him not taking action QUICK ENOUGH, but that the actions he HAS taken are WRONG, that many things he enunciated BEFORE the election (see no "surprise" here either) were WRONG.

You are seemingly either incapable of understanding this concept or willfully ignoring it

[TheWatcher]

280. Keep Parroting your useless meme.

It's all you have.

Because you obviously can't refute or counter anything else, and you've freely chosen to ignore that which is relevant.

[misanthrope]

212. Given a choice between decapitation and double amputation...

...I'd choose the latter but it doesn't mean I'm going to gladly resign myself to it.

[Boomerang Diddle]

232. K & R!

:kick:

[Orwellian_Ghost]

233. The core of your post

is the antithesis of a healthy, functioning democracy.

Think about it.

[last_texas_dem]

252. Already bitching about the state of things after

THREE WHOLE MONTHS: OK, I understand the problem w/ doing so. Obama's inherited a mess, and it's unrealistic to expect conditions to already be "perfect" this quickly.

But criticism of the policies Obama favors and is pushing after THREE WHOLE MONTHS: what's the problem? If one opposes where Obama stands on something or the policies he is trying to implement, it certainly makes sense to be critical of them right now. If you think a policy is going to have disastrous or unhealthy effects, what's the point in waiting until after it's been implemented, and the disastrous or unhealthy effects have possibly occurred, to complain? Seems pretty counterproductive to me...

And, honestly, I'm not sure about the whole "work of the people" thing. I think Obama has done some good things and some bad, is sometimes right and sometimes wrong- but I don't think everything he does has been done with the "little guy" in mind. Sure, he's better than * on that front- but have any DUers really been arguing otherwise?

[Mass]

257. Wait and see what? Do you think the corporate Democrats will wait and see? Do you think that the GOP

will wait and see?

No, they will lobby him, the House and the Senate to see their agenda pass. They will push towards their goals. If nobody pushes the other way, guess what will happen.

Now, we may do without the Bushlike, fascist, ... because they are ridiculous, but you are just asking people to shut up in this post. As if history was done without people being involved in it. Strange view on a progressive board, that reforms come from the top.

[Bluebear]

260. "Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes!!"

Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens.

[Deja Q]

262. .....

:rofl:

Too true.

[Starry Messenger]

267. +1

[JVS]

269. He's had a chance. He's the one who decided to risk his political capital with bailing out banks...

He's also the one who decided on the "team of rivals" that now seem to meet no progressive opposition from within the administration.

[ProSense]

277. You're wrong.

Giving him a chance is dangerous. He has already proven that he can't be trusted, that he has no intention of adhering to the policies he outlined during the campaign.

He is already protecting Bush as the MSM and other critics have pointed out. That's not good, and doesn't bode well for his re-election.

The last thing anyone needs to do is wait and see. If there is more to the story, people will come around. Until then, Obama needs to be held accountable. Wait and see is no longer a valid excuse. He has had plenty of time to implement his entire agenda in a such way that reflects real progress and success. There is no real reason for us to wait and see after he has had two and a half months to prove himself an agent of change.

I hope he can turn it around, but it doesn't look possible, especially his actions that run too close to those of his predecessor. It doesn't look good at all.

Still, while the outrage grows, everyone will still have to wait and see. What other choice is there?

[PurityOfEssence]

279. Well, like his oft referred-to idol Reagan said: "Trust, but verify"

All this vague and airy "hope" and "change" and such has somehow exempted him from any accountability to far too many here.