No Strength In Numbers For Uninsured In US

[OhioChick]

Source: AP

Number Of Uninsured Has Grown To Estimated 50M

April 11, 2009

WASHINGTON -- If the uninsured were a political lobbying group, they'd have more members than AARP. The National Mall couldn't hold them if they decided to march on Washington.

But going without health insurance is still seen as a personal issue, a misfortune for many and a choice for some. People who lose coverage often struggle alone instead of turning their frustration into political action.

Illegal immigrants rallied in Washington during past immigration debates, but the uninsured linger in the background as Congress struggles with a health care overhaul that seems to have the best odds in years of passing.

That isolation could have profound repercussions.

Lawmakers already face tough choices to come up with the hundreds of billions it would cost to guarantee coverage for all. The lack of a vocal constituency won't help. Congress might decide to cover the uninsured slowly, in stages.

The uninsured "do not provide political benefit for the aid you give them," said Robert Blendon, a professor of health policy and political analysis at the Harvard School of Public Health. "That's one of the dilemmas in getting all this money. If I'm in Congress, and I help out farmers, they'll help me out politically. But if I help out the uninsured, they are not likely to help members of Congress get re-elected."




Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/health/19155692/detail.html

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I'd venture to guess that 50 million is a bit on the conservative side considering the high unemployment rates.

[stray cat]

1. I assume many young people and others who choose not to have insurance

are not too worried and are not campaigning for a situation where they are forced to play and pay. I feel for those who can't afford insurance because they have nothing more than food and clothing or have pre-existing conditions.

[AndyTiedye]

29. Many of them are Making Minimum Wage and Choose to Eat

[truedelphi]

33. Pre-existing conditions stopped my ability

To get health insurance when I was in my forties.

I was in great health, but vitaligo a minor skin compelxion issue kept me off the rolls.

Despite my willingness to pay around $ 550 a month.

[eridani]

45. Young people don't expect to ever get expensively sick. And you know what?

The chances are less than one in ten that they will. In every demographic, 5% of the population accounts for 50% of the costs, and 15% for 85% of the costs.

[dkf]

2. I bet people without health insurance are bad off enough to not

want to think about having extra expenses. Eating comes before spending on a hypothetical future illness after all. And realistically, does anyone think the Government is going to give them free coverage? I doubt it. All people realize that the best the Government can do is help subsidize costs.

[imdjh]

15. Surely that's true of some, but there are other kinds of people in opposition

I was surprised when I was promoting the idea to a self employed person as the best thing that could happen for small business. He's opposed. Why? Because he's a disabled veteran and he's already on government health care, so he doesn't want to have to pay into a NSP system, even though he's "Progressive".

I know self employed who oppose because they have catastrophic policies which cost very little and they don't want to pay for complete coverage. Most of these folks are healthy and figure that they will stay that way until they are "forced" to go on Medicare.

Young people who think they are invincible, of course.

People who are counting on the mandatory health services given to those in crisis and either have nothing to lose when the bill comes due, or are willing to risk what they have against a in increased payroll deduction.

People who claim to be self employed who are actually SEMI-self employed, ie have a wife who is working for a call center to keep the family in health insurance while Joe goes out and makes the primary income as a tradesman.

[dkf]

18. I'd sure like to know what price point the uninsured would pay at

and how far that is from what is currently available.

Do we expect the Government to fully make up that gap? Would that then mean people who pay for their insurance have to pay for theirs and subsidize others too?

Or would the increase in taxes make up the gap anyway, so basically the Government taxes you, then gives it back to you as a health insurance subsidy?

[imdjh]

23. As I understand it, the numbers are pretty simple

The way I have seen the numbers presented, and I am not going to go look for this because I surely will not find it when I need it, you take the total of premiums paid to private companies, plus the out of pocket paid by those who have private insurance, plus the premiums and deductibles paid by those on Medicare, plus the cost of the military health care system, plus the cost of workers comp insurance for health care, and this will far exceed the cost of having universal NSP.

In essence, if we pay to NSP what we currently pay to private health insurance companies then it rights the boat of universal healthcare and at the moment would actually create a surplus.

ANyone can feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood the mechanics.

For comparison purposes, I think it's often pointed out that the cost of services per person in countries with NSP or NHS is far less than what we currently pay to private health insurance companies.

[lostnotforgotten]

3. Single Payer For All Would Cost No More Than What Americans Are Collectively Paying Today

eom

[rurallib]

4. much less from what I hear.

[Massacure]

6. It depends on how well the government sets it up.

The government isn't any more immune to quagmires than a private corporation is.

[Baby Snooks]

10. Which means?

The reality of single-payer health insurance is that most people who are uninsured will remain uninsured and have to continue to depend on the public health care system or is that going to be replaced by an overhaul of Medicare/Medicaid to include those who cannot afford health insurance?

As it is most people without health insurance do not qualify for Medicaid. I doubt Congress will make it easier. So what do you do if you can't afford health insurance? Hope you can survive long enough for Medicare coverage or sell everything you own including your home so you can qualify for Medicaid? And then hope you can find a doctor who takes Medicare/Medicaid? More and more are not. Some hospitals are considering it as well. The two Americas are becoming just that.

What about the estimated 50 million illegal immigrants who have overwhelmed our public health care system? Do they continue to get free care while the rest of us don't? No one talks about that because it is "politically incorrect" but it is a major problem particularly in our larger cities. The argument is they pay sales tax and also pay other local taxes such as property taxes indirectly. So do we. The problem is we don't get free health care.

We are already seeing two health care systems. One for the rich. One for the poor. Although what the poor get is not what most would consider health care.

The only thing that will work is an expansion of the Medicare/Medicaid system to provide basic health care for all Americans which some private insurance does not cover. Most people delay seeking treatment because of the deductibles. Most don't have $5,000 which is an average deductible. And most hospitals want it upfront. Medicare does provide basic health care but if you don't have supplemental insurance, you owe the 20% "co-pay" which in some cases can wipe you out if you have assets a medical provider can seize.

We were told HMOs would solve the problem. They did. Countless Americans died before the provider referred them to a specialist or admitted them to a hospital for more complete tests. Bottom line of diagnosis with HMOs has always been just that. The bottom line. Profit.

Of course to be honest Congress would have to redefine basic health care since Medicare and Medicaid don't cover everything.

This is just more "sleight-of-hand" by the Republicrats who want to ensure that any "health care reform" ensures the one thing most important to them - protecting the right of the health care industry to make profit at the exlusion of the public interest which of course ensures those campaign contributions keep pouring in.

They all of course don't worry about it - they all have health insurance provided by the taxpayers. And they have better health care than any of the taxpayers.

The attitude of Congress towards the poor is "let them eat cake" and the attitude of Congress towards those without health insurance is "let them drop dead."

[imdjh]

17. When I say "NSP" I mean Medicare for all.

[imdjh]

16. +1 shout it , repeat it, spread the word, make people say OK just to shut you up.

I think it sometimes takes that to get the word out.

[pattmarty]

24. Actually a lot (really a lot) fucking less. I don't want to get down...........

............on you, but you can't sell this by saying that it would cost "no more than what Americans are collectively paying today". Wrong frame entirely.

[knixphan]

25. Seconded

:thumbsup:

[Shoedogg]

5. I don't get this:

"If I'm in Congress, and I help out farmers, they'll help me out politically. But if I help out the uninsured, they are not likely to help members of Congress get re-elected."

Where did THAT idea come from? I can't figure out his logic in concluding this. Who (of the uninsured) wouldn't vote to re-elect the representative that worked to get them even minimal assistance?

[NJCher]

7. I thought the same

I know plenty of people who decide their vote on who is most sympathetic toward extending health care coverage.

This "expert" is wrong.


Cher

[yankeeinlouisiana]

8. I think by "help" he means money-wise.

If you can't afford insurance, chances are you're not going to contribute (largely) to their campaign.

[Nay]

11. Exactly. They don't send money, so they can go die. Now, if this isn't

the most fucked up shit, I don't know what is. Now we have to pay politicians bribes in the form of campaign money to do the right thing for the country? We are indeed fucked.

[nashville_brook]

13. governing by bribery is kleptocracy.

[enlightenment]

20. It's not the votes they're talking about .

It's the money. Political lobbying groups (farmers/unions/AARP/NRA) give politicians money.

The poor can only give them votes.

You can't run for a high office these days without money - lots and lots of money. Politicians don't necessarily want money for the sake of wealth, they want money because it buys power.

[Merlot]

41. So this politician is only beholden to those who can help him?

So much for public service. The fact that this guy is comfortable admitting this is reprehensible.

[Laelth]

9. K&R

K&R because this is an important issue (not implying that I agree with Mr. Blendon).

:dem:

-Laelth

[GreenTea]

12. Fuck...They been using that same "47 million" uninsured figure for....

years....so now they are giving us more bullshit with this "50 million" uninsured figure....they've been using & quoting that 47 million uninsured figure since 2001.....(not to mention the millions of under-insured people who get very little for their outrageously priced insurance).

It's all bullshit the figure is much much higher than 50 million as well!

As if the total numbered of uninsured people hasn't gone up by tens of millions since 2001 (just consider the past eight years of Bush & the republicans..... Along with this current republican caused recession).....that 47 million figure has been going up every day for years.

2001 is when the corporate compliant media first started using that "47 million" uninsured figure, perhaps it was true in 2001 but that figure is certainly NOT accurate now, nor is the "50 million" figure....it's most likely 100 million uninsured along with tens of millions more under-insured!

We Want Single-Payer Universal Health Care - NOW!

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. They must think that '47 million' is a # we will willing accept and not raise hell over.

:shrug: It has too be much higher than that now.

[GreenTea]

36. I think you're absolutely insighful & correct!!

[Mithreal]

14. Uninsured, underinsured

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. The real #.

:wow:

[GreenTea]

38. Thank you! This is a 'keeper" for everyone to know & show the REAL facts!!

[LaPera]

19. Without a doubt it's far more than fifty million uninsured!

[chervilant]

21. As I sit here

suffering from some serious respiratory illness, I have to laugh at all the brouhaha about health insurance. Our nation could provide health care to ALL without having to enrich the insurance mega-corporations. I have health insurance, but--as a teacher--I don't have the copay at present (having paid all my regular bills ahead of time) to go seek care. I have to wait until payday. Doesn't that suck? Doesn't anyone see the irony??!! I have friends in England and Canada who just cannot comprehend why I can't go to any clinic and get the care I need without worrying about how I'll pay for it. Frankly, I don't understand, either.

[xchrom]

22. i'm sure that this is true -- but some things are a matter of PR and

marketing work.

perhaps a real effort at appealing and organizing these folk would yield some results.

[Seldona]

27. Ain't that the truth.

As an example, I remember the media blitz Blue Cross/Blue Shield ran when Sicko came out. Here in Wisconsin there were ads literally every other commercial break for months. I think I saw 4 watching the local news once.

How many people had to die to pay for that I wonder? The irony of Michael Moore's title is not lost on me.

[xchrom]

34. remember the ads the republick party ran

when hilary was working on health care -- what were they -- the 'harry and sally' -- or something like that.

you couldn't turn the telley on but there they were.

the same can be organized from a different perspective.

[xchrom]

35. remember the ads the republick party ran

when hilary was working on health care -- what were they -- the 'harry and sally' -- or something like that.

you couldn't turn the telley on but there they were.

the same can be organized from a different perspective.

[dixiegrrrrl]

30. I want the average American to get the same health coverage that Congress gets"

Was I dreaming that I heard that?

[OhioChick]

39. You and I want that same coverage! n/t

[annabanana]

31. People would be DAMN GRATEFUL if there were a few brave

politicians who made it so you didn't have to worry about bankruptcy and financial ruin if you had an accident, or you or your loved ones contracted a chronic disease...

The guy who gets his name on the bill that does this will be enshrined.

[tinrobot]

32. Perhaps we need to get organized, then...

Who wants to start something?

[Vinca]

37. We need a million uninsured march on Washington.

[Delphinus]

40. I'd say you're right.

This article, which was out about two weeks ago, states:
Nationally, one in three people under 65 were uninsured at some point during 2007-2008, or about 86.7 million Americans. That compares with 45.7 million people who were deemed uninsured for the entire 2007 calendar year, according to Census Bureau data.

It was done by data collected by Families USA, an advocacy group that promotes universal health insurance, also includes those who were uninsured for a portion of the two-year period studied.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20090326/NEWS07/903269955/1002/LOCAL

EDIT TO ADD:
And 86 million people are not enough of a voice???!!!

[earthboundmisfit]

42. It's not about "COVERAGE", dammit to hell -

It's about CARE.
Somehow the only people who understand that are the ones who have been without care due to being without "coverage".

[leftofthedial]

43. In today's US--no money, no justice.

are you ready for a millenium or so of serfdom?

Maybe your grandkids will get lucky and get a job working as a servant in one of the masters' houses.

[20score]

44. Very important. K&R