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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:25 PM
Original message
Freeper-type does it again, only worse!
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 06:26 PM by Archae
On another message board, (not Free Republic,) this guy I posted his whines from, has gone from bad to worse.

(Begin post)

Blogged:

Over the last several weeks since Obama was inaugurated and began his
dismantling of the America I knew as a boy, something has been nagging at me,
picking at the back of my mind -- and it wouldn't go away -- despite my
inability to figure out what it was that was bothering me.

Well, a couple of days ago, the proverbial light bulb lit up over my head. I
had an epiphany. Actually, it was a two part epiphany, because an outside
source contributed confirmation of my sudden revelation just hours after the
fact. It went like this:

I was having a discussion with a friend about how the Obama administration is
force feeding socialism to us bits and pieces at a time, when it suddenly
occured to me that there was a parallel between the current take over of the
banks and dictating to the boards of major corporations in the current crisis,
and events in Germany in the early 1930's. Specifically, as Adolf Hitler
consolidated his power base, the German government took over effective control
of more and more of that country's industrial and financial infrastructure. In
fact, the classic definition of 'national socialism' is when the government
takes over effective control of privately owned companies and banks. On paper
at least, there is still private civilian ownership of those entities, but they
are powerless to control those entities because the government has effective
control.

That is, in fact, where the term NAZI comes from. It is the German accronym
for the National Socialist Party. National Socialists, ultra right wing
fanatics, NAZI; whatever you want to call it, is an historical fact and
responsible for the devastating war in human history.

Looking back at history -- after all, hindsight is 20/20 -- it is easy to see
how Germany was sucked into the black hole of political disaster that
ultimately resulted in World War II. Looking at our own times, it is somewhat
more difficult to see because we're living it. But the signs are there. We
are in a major financial crisis. People are scared. Along comes a dark horse
candidate for president who has a slick delivery, is photogenic, and appeals to
the need of the people for a savior. Adolf Hitler was much the same in 1930
Germany. He was a master at manipulating crowds with his rhetoric, just like
Obama. He swept into power out of nowhere despite a complete lack of
qualifications for the positions he ended up holding, just like Obama.

Once he was in firm control, Hitler began taking over control of the industrial
base and the banking systems in Germany, and they were glad to get on
board. They were as susceptible to his snake oil rhetoric as the general
populace. Now, Hitler's ultimate goal was power in Europe for the German
republic, and he
used the threat of war to achieve his goals at first, and then actual military
aggression as his greed for power grew.

Obama is going down the same path. In the name of "saving" America, he has
engineered a $4 Trillion bailout of banks, the auto industry, the insurance and
financial megacorps saying that we can't afford to let these giants fail, or it
will destroy us utterly. Now we see Obama dictating to the boards of these
companies on how they can pay their executives, determining who can and can't
receive so-called "golden parachute" retirement packages, etc.

He is telling the auto industry what they can and can't build, and dictating
what they must do if they want any help from the government in surviving. Both
GM and Chrysler have been taken to task for not taking steps to eliminate large
trucks and SUV's fast enough, even though those are the very model lines that
the public is still buying and are still in the black. The Government wants
them to build "green" cars -- small, fuel efficient, environmentally friendly
-- despite the fact that nobody wants to buy them because they are less
safe in
accidents, and unsuitable for many of the requirements people have for
transport.

As I said, my epiphany has two parts. Later in the morning after my
conversation, I was listening to the radio -- WLS out of Chicago, to be exact
-- and the talk show host was suddenly remarking that he was suddenly
scared
about the Obama administration because he realized that there were many
parallels between 1930's Germany and 2009 America. You could have knocked me
over with a feather. But it goes even further. As I sit here writing this, I
have the TV going and Glenn Beck is airing a special news report on the rise of
fascism in the Weimar Republic, and the parallels he sees in the current Obama
administration. If you think I'm not spooked more than a little at the
confluence of these events, you are very naive.

"Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." That is one of
the axioms of history that everybody has heard, but surprisingly few take heed
of. My father fought the Nazi regime in World War II, and millions of
Americans died to rid the world of that scourge. I never thought I would live
to see this country falling apart at the seams, but it is. I never thought I
would live to see Americans embracing the most vicious political form every
conceived by man, but they are. I am saddened more than I can express, but I am
more angry than I have ever been. I have been betrayed beyond my wildest
nightmares by the government I have believed in my entire life. I am not alone
in feeling that way. I fully expect that before it is all over, millions of
people just like me will rise up and say enough is enough. My worst fear,
however, is that it will be too little, too late. God help us all.

(End post)

These cavemen just don't realize how stupid they sound.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. This nation is at war
WAR!!!!

And in a war, it's not patriotic to badmouth the commander in chief.

That gives aid and comfort to the enemy.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Last I checked,.....
Nazism, and any sort of fascism, featured belligerent nationalism, both at home and abroad. Also, last I checked, it was the Democratic Party that opposed nationalist identitarianism by adducing civil rights laws to include minorities rather than scapegoat them. Those Republicans who have joined Democrats in this endeavor have mostly been members of their party's now vestigial moderate to liberal wing, while the Democrats who stood in opposition were overwhelmingly Dixiecrats -- now almost completely defunct. And who are the militarists? Do the right-wnakers really want to go there?
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Don't forget...
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 02:44 AM by Archae
It was George Bush's grandfather who laundered money for Nazi Germany.

And it was a right-wing priest (Father Coughlin) who used his radio show to support Nazi Germany, slam "the Jews," etc.

Henry Ford, a conservative, ran the "Protocols Of Zion" in his pet newspaper.

Just about every "Dixiecrat" switched parties to the GOP.
And the racist anti-Semitic group called "Council of Conservative Citizens," (began by the "white collar Klan,") is GOP.
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obiwan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. Technically, this nation is not at war.
Congress must declare war, and it hasn't formally done so since World War II.

Check it out. It's in the Constitution, which says only Congress can declare war.

What happened in 2002 in congress was not a declaration of war. It was an authorization for the president to use military force. Not the same thing as a declaration of war. Think Vietnam, Korea, Panama, etc.

Technically, the "War On Terror" is a police action, as was Vietnam, Korea, Panama, etc.

You may think I'm an a**hole, but I am positive I am right on this.

Ask any professor who teaches constitutional law. (Like President Obama.)
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Neo-cons are stupid. They don't even have an original idea in their heads. He's muslim, he's a nazi,
blah blah blah. Freaks. They are so damn scared of everything, they blindly follow the neo-cons and spew their ideas as if they are their own ideas.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. He might get on well in the ihateobama forum.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rise up? Ha. Not unless they are told to.
The "Good Germans" are obedient and trained to obey.
There are a bunch of people around here, (Fargo) that think that because the Police Chief says something is thus, then it is the law. Scary.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. This person is delusional
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 06:38 PM by depakid
and disturbingly enough- being egged on and reinforced through hate radio (which proliferates due to a lack of any re4sponsible media regulation in the US).
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doctor jazz Donating Member (474 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. So am I supposed to be frightened by (quote follows)
"That is, in fact, where the term NAZI comes from. It is the German accronym
for the National Socialist Party. National Socialists, ultra right wing
fanatics, NAZI; whatever you want to call it, is an historical fact and
responsible for the devastating war in human history."
==========================================================================================

the ultra right wing fanatics? Is that what Pres. Obama is? Now I'm REALLY confused! :shrug: :silly:
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luvspeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. translation
"Over the last several weeks since Obama was inaugurated and began his
dismantling of the America I knew as a boy, something has been nagging at me,
picking at the back of my mind -- and it wouldn't go away -- despite my
inability to figure out what it was that was bothering me."

Translation: How many different things can I conjure up to be concerned about without coming out an saying I am completely freaked out about a Black president?

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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Exactly! n/t
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Great Translation
Yep, that's what i think too! Great post.
GAC
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. Amurka already has its empire.... military bases in two thousand
countries or so... Hitler was embarking on starting one. Huge difference there... but that is lost on the ultra rightwing fanatics posting on FR.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. I did not read the whole thing
It was not necessary as soon as he said that National Socialism was government control of industry.
He has no knowledge of history or Fascism
It was exactly the opposite of that...it was the corporate control of government through a strong leader that controlled the military.
The name National Socialist party was what Hitler called it to gain power with the help of the working class.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. I had this conversation with my rw bil a couple of weeks ago
The rw followers don't know the difference between fascism and socialism, and it is quite easy for hate radio to make them one and the same to their listeners. Trying to explain the difference is like attempting to teach algebra to a four year old. Because Hitler used the word socialist to fool the people, it makes it easier for modern American fascists to confuse their idiot followers.

Anyone who doesn't think that education should be a priority of the Obama administration is sadly mistaken.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Exactly.
And I think some of them don't want to know the truth.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. Clearly this is one of the artistic types who will be persecuted under the Obama/Nazi regime...
In the future there will be a version of Cabaret written about this man's struggle against our Progressive crowing of "Tomorrow Belongs to Me."
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. I would respond to that poster with this comment.
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 07:52 PM by RandomThoughts
Hitler and the third Reich, used Socialism in Nazi in an Orwellian way. Certain types of people name everything the opposite of what it is, Patriot Act is a good example. You see it all the time when programs or even Bills are named. It is a common practice of a deceptive organization.

Those that do good, call it good, those that do bad, call it good.

If you actually look at NAZI Germany, it was Fascist not Socialist.

Look how this definition of Socialism leads towards Marxism. (Note that this dictionary site is supported by ask.com a company started by same guy that started fox news)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.


I like this definition that gives a little more information including today's non communist forms of socialism
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/551569/socialism
the Soviet Union was the principal model of strictly centralized socialism, while Sweden and Denmark were well-known for their noncommunist socialism.

Origins
The origins of socialism as a political movement lie in the Industrial Revolution. Its intellectual roots, however, reach back almost as far as recorded thought—even as far as Moses, according to one history of the subject. Socialist or communist ideas certainly play an important part in the ideas of the ancient Greek philosopher Plato, whose Republic depicts an austere society in which men and women of the “guardian” class share with each other not only their few material goods but also their spouses and children. Early Christian communities also practiced the sharing of goods and labour, a simple form of socialism subsequently followed in certain forms of monasticism. Several monastic orders continue these practices today.


It could be said that Hitler used the idea of 'a greater good', like socialism to promote or sell horrible ideas to the Germany people, mixed with Nationalism, and dehumanization of groups based on belief systems, while arguing need for survival of fittest Natural Laws, in some weird form it allowed him to create support and actions that would not other wise have seemed possible in any rational population.

Hitler demonized groups, gays, immigrants, and people with non standard beliefs as defined by him, including the Jewish people. This ability to create different groups and segmenting society, allowed his followers to lose all empathy for people in other groups and allowed once normal people, to become monsters.

That approach could be done to lets say Muslims, or Immigrants in modern countries, or it could be done to Christians or Jews in other countries, it is a method of creating groups, hate and fear added, then total loss of empathy or identification with other people.

But back on the topic of Socialism... Hitler, hated the politics of the Soviet Union, that used a form of Socialism called Communism. But Fascism and Communism are considered opposite ends of the spectrum. Or are you saying NAZI was to transition Germany to be like the USSR and become Communists? To be more clear, communism is communal owned everything with central authority to manage. Communism also uses a form of Athens democracy for elections, but is many times corrupted. Fascism in Germany was Industrialist class control with monopoly, and state central authority to promote or protect that rule under a dictatorship.

The poster did not realize that Hitlers lie machine, like many other lie machines through history, still have effects if you do not realize that propaganda exists. He used the term Socialism, because it promotes the idea of community and general welfare of all, but used the means of Fascism, because we all know from history, his rule was to elevate a few, and dictate, or worse, to the many. He also worked with industry, and used those industry in monopoly form to control production, a common method of fascism. The top to bottom, feudal like system that can be created with monopoly controlled capitalism, is usually well liked by dictators, because it creates a series of feudal like barons in the private sector. Its structure of leader, nobles, and peasants is well liked by authoritarians.

I found an article written on Germany in 1940, it explains some of the economic systems of the time from the perspective of Marxist, relevant to show the difference of fascism and socialism (Since socialism says it wants to move to Marxism.)

Article on 1940 Germany from a Socialist/Marxist perspective.
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/ni/vol06/no07/robbins.htm

Info on Source of article
http://www.marxists.org/glossary/periodicals/n/i.htm

Now lets look at the word fascist, what 1940 Germany, and Italy were considered to be.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascist
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascist) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control




Now lets look at today, and US politics.

President Obama, and the Democrats are not socialist

However, some areas where social programs exist to limit unbridled capitalism are supported.

For instance many do advocate, as most Americans do, some social programs to protect the people in society. Things like Child Labor Laws, Social Security, Having a Police and Fire department paid by taxes, Protection of rights of disabled, and even a legal system, are all social programs paid by taxation, that could be called part of socialism.

What many don't know, is Bush's destruction of government is because there are some that want everything ran by companies, so Police would be hired security forces for individual communities, and policy would be determined like in the mining towns of 1900s were company owned the housing the stores and hired Pinkertons for security.


This was why KFC advocating filling pot holes in a recent story, because filling pot holes is a symbol for the first and basic task of government. It is an example of a move for companies to replace government.

More examples are when the Company town existed where CEO set the moral standards of the community he built for the factory workers, he decided when people could drink or socialize, and set standards on Religion and other elements of community. If people did not like it, they could move out of company housing and find another job.

This is because company ran system is the feudal model, a few CEO's elected by 'Nobles', people with large shares of stock, rule the peasants. Like how the industries that supported Hitler in 1940s created autocratic rule under him in Germany.

So if you want to compare to 1940 Germany.

The democrats and President Obama are on the side of America, and the British, while the Right, libertarian, authoritarian, company firsters, would side with Germany and Italy.




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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. "...even though those are the very model lines that the public is still buying and are still in
the black." If so, then why the fuck are GM & Chrysler asking for bailout money?
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. Suddenly a proverbial light bulb is an epiphany for morans like this n/t
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. A burned out one.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
19. Gosh, his "epiphany" sounds remarkably similar
to Glenn Beck's latest rant.It's amazing that these freeper types all get the same brainstorms in unison. Independent thinking at it's best.:eyes:
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
20. Author: Mr. Cliche....
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 06:32 AM by PCIntern
It is a string of cliches placed together - almost as though it were a writing assignment: how many tired phrases can you use in one essay? Begin now.
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PaulRevere08 Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
21. "those who do not learn from history
are likely to repeat the lies they hear on talk radio".

And where did he get this piece of history:

"Nazism..... millions of Americans died to rid the world of that scourge."


Many Americans died in WWII but it was closeer to 250K and not millons.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
22. Written well enough to be a professional hit piece circulated into
the blogosphere to become "common knowledge" and talking points.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
24. Nurse Ratched . . . calling Nurse Ratched.
Somebody missed the medication cart.
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. This guy is an idiot.
Hitler called his bunch of goons "socialist," even though they weren't.
Hitler used "socialist" so he could put one over on the German people.

The same way the old communist East Germany used to be called the "German Democratic Republic."

The guy says he was listening to WLS radio from Chicago.

That means he was listening to any of these:

Mancow & Cassidy
Rush Limbaugh
Sean Hannity
Mark Levin

No wonder he wrote this idiotic screed.

And the idiot actually buys into Glenn Beck's bullshit.

Oh, and his cronies will whine about the guy "not being able to post here."
Well, posting drivel like he did, no wonder he only can post in a right-wing echo on a message board.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
28. I have read similar postings from LIBERALS.
It's not all Freepers are whining like this. I just left a liberal discussion board, because I got sick of some of the regulars who have been spouting pretty much the same thing, calling President Obama "the Friendly Face of Fascism". It's because "he's no different than Bush". They refuse to entertain any ideas that Obama's decisions on anything which with they disagree (wiretapping, defense budget, Geithner) is because he's a fascist, rather than a guy who has had his hands tied on a lot of shit by his predecessor. They're right, and the rest of us are a bunch of suckers for believing that some possibility might actually exist that he has other motives/reasons besides being a fascist. These are not exactly cavemen spewing this stupidity. They have been at it for a while, but with things like the wiretap ruling, they are absolutely convinced now that the fascists have succeeded.

People are nuts.
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