I just have this to say about "bad" teachers

[Downtown Hound]

Throughout my entire life, and two college degrees at two different universities, I can't even count on one hand the amount of bad teachers I've had. I've had a number of exceptional teachers that influenced my life for the better. I've had a number of simply good teachers. And I've had a number of teachers that were just so so.

But "bad" teachers? Hardly any. Teachers are not the problem. That is all.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. I agree

[ZombieHorde]

2. K&R

[MADem]

3. I've had quite a few bad teachers. But I have to say I've had some great ones, too.

I went to more schools than most people, too, which exposed me to more teachers than the average person, and did a lot of postgraduate work as well. At the postgraduate level, I only had one dullard of a teacher, and even at that he could be endearing when he focused on a topic that interested him.

When they like what they are doing, it shows.

[Doctor_Horrible]

4. bless you! :) nt

[Milo_Bloom]

5. I have had several bad teachers... some good.. no great ones.

[Kerrytravelers]

6. Thank you.

:hi:

[snappyturtle]

7. Wish more could see it this way. I've had good doctors and so so

doctors; some CPAs are better than others as is true with attorneys. But.............

:popcorn:

[aikoaiko]

8. Yes, but are teachers the solution then.

:shrug:

[daleanime]

9. More of them....

would be a start.:toast:

[Downtown Hound]

14. I don't know what the solution is

My personal thinking on this matter is probably something along the lines of education simply needs to be valued more by society at large. No skimping on the budget for starters. But the root of the problem to me is that lots of people out there just don't value knowledge. They look at education simply as a means of getting a job. As a result, a lot of the kids go their expecting the school to cater to them. And then they blame the teachers when they fuck up.

I never thought I'd actually hear myself say something like that. I mean, I fucked around a whole lot in both high school and college. Drank, smoked tons of dope, messed around, partied, the works. I am intelligent and I did graduate from all of them, but I was never a star pupil. But I never blamed the teachers for that. It's simply the way I am. I got out of it what I put into it. I always knew that and took responsibility for it. But I saw so many students and their parents blame teachers for their own shit. They didn't get an A on a test, it was the teacher's fault for not going over the material correctly. And don't get me started on the hovering helicopter parents that are there to swoop down on any teacher that dares fail their little baby when they earned that F.

Don't get me wrong, I did have a few bad teachers, the kind where you could work your butt off in the class and still not do well because their curriculum or teaching was faulty, but like I said, very few.

Basically, I just think people need to realize that by and large, their education is their responsibility. It's a privilege to go to school. Many people in the world don't have that. How to get people to do this? I have no idea.

[Dinger]

10. I Am A Teacher, And I Have This To Say

First, thank you.

Second, I never had a poor teacher. In college, I had an English professor that was "so-so."

I know there are poor teachers out there, but I believe they are a very small minority. This minority ruins it for the rest of us.

[Warpy]

11. I had two bad ones

meaning teachers who would bully and belittle students because that's the only way they thought they could motivate them.

I had a lot of burned out teachers. Their hearts were no longer in it but they were still effective at imparting whatever they were teaching.

Most of my teachers were good ones, though, with a sprinkling of great ones.

[greenbriar]

12. thank you

from a teacher whom the kids have described as "one bad ass teacher"

who is also compassionate and caring about all of us not just the good ones

[gristy]

13. I had one bad teacher. Something in 10th grade. Social studies maybe.

And dozens of very good ones. Every math teacher great. I remember almost all of them. Chemistry, physics, English. All great.

[Fading Captain]

15. There are plenty of bad teachers, and teachers can be part of the problem

My wife began teaching a few years ago. I was bewildered at how much out-of-pocket expenses we faced, subsidizing the art room she taught in.
She notes that older teachers are often inflexible to demands of school administration and that some teachers are outright hostile to any change.

It's ridiculous, the petty politics that goes in school districts.

Obviously, the problem with public education isn't just teaching. I'd say, that 30 percent of teachers are dedicated professionals. Another 50 percent are solid educators. Another 20 percent are in it for summer vacations and fairly generous pensions and benefit plans.

The right wing attack on teachers and all unions, for that matter, is disgusting. But that doesn't mean that teachers shouldn't face critcism.

Teachers need to stay up on technology and they need to be up on trends in the job markets.

I'd advocate mandatory one month of summer vacation to be used for these purposes, in a very intensive way.

And any teacher who refuses really shouldn't have their job anymore.

[Downtown Hound]

19. I never said they shouldn't face criticism

But all too often they are made the root of the problem, when I personally think that a lot of the time, the problem lies a lot closer to home.

[AwakeAtLast]

21. If you mandate that I get trained during a time I don't get paid

then I should receive some compensation for it. I don't count that as a refusal. Would you like it if I told you what to do with the time you for which you are not paid?

[Fading Captain]

27. Boo hooo

You have no idea how much most people work without pay, do you?

Teachers are next. They busted the auto workers. They busted the steal workers.

Truck drivers and teachers are next.

And nobody is going to have sympathy for teachers who don't want to give up a month of summer for the betterment of education.

[Godhumor]

34. Teachers get paid for 10 months of work not 12

Working an extra month means getting paid for 11 months not 10. Hawai'i, before I left, was trying to move to an 11 month calendar with one month for training and meetings in the summer; I am not sure how that turned out.

As to your other point, you have absolutely no idea how much teachers work without pay already, do you? You would be amazed at how little in the way of grading and lesson planning gets done when a teacher actually works only the hours he or she is paid to work.

[Fading Captain]

49. As I said

My wife is a teacher.
And I know. She works very hard.

[AwakeAtLast]

43. I am amazed that you are admitting that you are married to a teacher

and come back with that reply.

Please tell me how much of your unpaid time goes to training in your job. Please.

Justify your claims.

I am a teacher now, but I have worked in other professions. I was never asked to train without being paid for that time.

[Fading Captain]

50. Hah!

My wife has the option of taking her checks all year, or in just the month she teaches.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. That is very unusual

And it isn't relevant to the topic.

[Fading Captain]

73. I think it is relevant

This idea of "summer vacations" needs to go away.

I'm for paying good teachers more.
I'm for better funding of classroom activities.
I'm for funding curriculum development to better reflect the real world.
I'm for making it mandatory that teachers keep up with trends in teaching, education and the workforce.

[AwakeAtLast]

56. She is still being paid for nine months of work

whether or not she takes her checks in only during the school year or all year long. It's not like they put extra money in her paycheck! They stretch out the money she earns in those months so that a check is receive throughout the whole year. If she does that, her check amount is less.

This keeps teachers from being able to file for unemployment during the summer, BTW.

[Godhumor]

58. I had the same choice, but it is still for 10 months of work

Spreading your pay over 12 months does not mean you get paid for 12 months.

Look, most teachers already work in the summer to ensure they earn money for the whole year. When I taught, I helped with summer programs, curriculum planning, etc. Every one of these assignments were paid on a per day basis and not part of the normal expected work. If it becomes part of the normal expected work, it will be included in the salary.

[knitter4democracy]

61. She got to choose? Wow. I never had that option.

In my second year, the school's treasurer (private school) just decided by fiat to pay us only nine months out of the year (not even ten) because it made the school's tax stuff cheaper or something. It violated our contracts, and we were all told to just suck it up and set money aside to survive over the summer or leave. We couldn't leave, so we did the best we could. It took me three years to break $20K a year, and that was in the late 1990s.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. And I am sure you will be there cheering on the sidelines.

Your comments on these education threads are repulsive.

[Fading Captain]

75. Are you kidding me?

I support unions. I support teachers. I support public education.

But I don't support blind cheerleading for a profession that has it's fair share of jackasses in it for the paycheck, benefits and summers off.

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. Blind cheerleading??

Jackasses?

I wonder where all of these jackasses are. I guess I am too busy doing my job to notice. But sheesh, you would think that if my profession was infected with jackasses, I would have noticed after nearly 30 years. :eyes:

[Downtown Hound]

94. RAH! RAH! TEACHERS! GOOOOOOOO! LOL.

Nobody's blind cheerleading here, and to suggest they are is patently ridiculous. If anything, there has been way too much blind condemnation, way too much scapegoating, way too much responsibility being placed in the wrong hands, all of it on teachers. That was why I started this thread.

No teacher, no matter how good, can force a child to open a book. No teacher can force a child to do their homework. No teacher can force a child to pay attention in class. Those are the things that ultimately need to happen if our education system is to be improved. But nobody is placing any of the blame on the parents or the students.

And as I stated above, I was not the best student in school. I am very intelligent, but I was often quite the slacker. I skated by with high C low B grade point averages, when in fact I am capable of much more and always knew that I was. I was just a stubborn child, didn't have the best home life, and just wasn't that into school. My innate intelligence and the fact that I at least had something resembling a work ethic was what got me through. There was nothing any teacher could have done to change that. The responsibility was mine. And if my dad might have bothered to put the bottle down once in awhile and paid more attention to what his kids were doing, and if my mom stopped being such a manic depressive hyperventilating bitch every once in awhile, well, maybe things might have been different.

I'm not trying to bore you with sob stories about my upbringing. I'm trying to illustrate that the problem with why kids don't want to learn more often than not has nothing to do with teachers. Yes, I had a few bad ones. A couple of really awful ones in fact. But most of them were really trying to do the best job that they could. And there was nothing any of them could have done to change me. And I would venture to say that that is true of most of the students out there that struggle academically.

[femmocrat]

25. I don't know where you get your percentages, but I disagree.

If anyone is just "in it for summer vacations and .... pensions and benefit plans", they will be overwhelmed by the day-to-day demands of the job. I don't see how one can teach today without a total commitment to doing a good job.

I have known teachers who are near retirement who don't necessarily keep up with all the latest trends, but all the emphasis on "accountability" forces them to have a mastery of their curriculum and to put in a full-day's work (and more). (And don't forget, we have seen these trends come and go over the years.) For example, NCLB requires all classrooms to have a "highly qualified" teacher.

However, don't forget that many districts cannot find enough qualified personnel in certain subjects and therefore assign people to teach out of their areas of certification, etc. That doesn't make these teachers "bad teachers." They deserve the support and training required to do an adequate job.

I would like to see more "accountability" for students and parents, instead of expecting teachers to bear the burdens of poor parenting, poverty, and society's many other breakdowns.

[Fading Captain]

28. I'm just throwing out random numbers

to sort of relay my general perceptions.

here's another:

More than 50 percent of the problem with public education has nothing to do with schools and everything to do with the student's home life.

Also, in Michigan, at least, the education curriculum for future teachers is terrible.

IMO, they need to get away from all the politically correct BS courses about racism and give teachers the tools they need to manage a classroom, which is probably the toughest job new teachers have.

[Downtown Hound]

33. What exactly is a "politically correct BS course about racism?"

I never had one of those. I had a few sociology courses in college that definitely touched on racism, but never had one specifically devoted to the topic. In high school it was all math, science, English, and a few electives.

And what tools do you think are required for teachers to manage a classroom?

[Fading Captain]

48. You'd have to see it to know it, I guess

NM

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. No links, just random thoughts

How sad. I guess your teachers didn't teach you how to do research.

[Fading Captain]

74. Yeah, I guess not.

You want me to go to the bookshelf and recite for you all the names of the books on the civil rights movement and racism?

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. What you are claiming is not a belief held by all who post here

If you want to try to disprove racism you would also most likely have a battle on your hands. If you want to just keep making wild statements and not backing them up, expect to be questioned.

[Downtown Hound]

71. I'll be sure to keep my eye out for one of those then.

:eyes:

[He loved Big Brother]

82. Let us know when you see it.

Or have another great non-answer.

[knitter4democracy]

64. I had to have one in Ohio. It was a multicultural education class.

One of the best I had, btw. I got to teach on the Navajo Nation Rez in Chinle, AZ, and it was a real wake-up call on how much of my management tools were based on dominant white cultural behaviors. It really prepared me for moving from central Ohio teaching in overwhelmingly white schools to Cleveland where we had a really mixed student population.

[Yukari Yakumo]

38. Adding...

The other 50% of the problem with public education are moron administrators and politicians who almost can be counted on to botch the curricula and try to mandate faddish teaching methods.

P.S. In Montana, the education curriculum for future teachers is just as bad. 90% is completely worthless junk on racism and such (I live in an area that seems like it's 95% white). What few "tools" they give are entirely built around a faddish teaching method that have been proven to be a colossal failure, especially in science-based areas (i.e. science, math).

[knitter4democracy]

62. Um, that class on racism does give them tools on management.

I know mine did.

[Djinn]

31. hope they don't want to move here then

the "summer holidays" line is often used by people having a go at teachers here (bizarrely by parents who complain that their neglect of their children's education can't be solved in a few hours a day in class) the thing is many teachers now have contracts that pay them for 9 months a year.

Almost every teacher I know waits tables or pulls beers over the summer in order to eat.

As for staying up with technology, in some disciplines that can be awfully expensive to do if your school/education dept wont pay for it. An IT teacher on a median wage can't be expected to fork our thousands upon thousands to keep certified in a myriad of software.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. What makes you think teachers are not up on technology? Or job trends?

I very much disagree with that statement. The problem is that school districts don't have the money to spend on technology. I had a computer at home and a digital camera and even a CD player long before my school district bought any for my classroom.

I also don't know any teachers who don't spend much of their summer going to class or in training.

Your assumptions are false and a big part of the problem.

[bluestateguy]

16. By my count I had two bad teachers from K-12

About a dozen excellent teachers, while the rest were anywhere from slightly below average to slightly above average.

There was one teacher in my high school, who I never had, but was notoriously bad. It took the Administration three years of red tape to get rid of him (and he spent another year filing frivolous appeals that went nowhere).

[BlooInBloo]

17. Presuming, of course, that one is in a position of being able to tell the difference...

I.e., we're in Allegory of the Cave territory.

[Downtown Hound]

18. Thanks to my high school government teacher

I actually understand what you're talking about. LOL. Well, like I said, if going through high school and getting 2 college degrees doesn't at least give you some measure of being able to tell the difference, then I really don't know what would.

[Bjorn Against]

20. I've had a few bad teachers, but I've had way more bad politicians.

[AwakeAtLast]

22. Absolutely!

:applause:

:hi:

[Fire1]

23. Thankyou for your support and honesty.

[femmocrat]

24. Thank you!

I am a teacher. Not a *great* one, but hard-working and dedicated at least. I really want to put in a plug for my colleagues. The teachers I work with are wonderful, caring, mostly selfless, and largely unsung professionals. I don't know how they do it day after day, year after year, with all the pressures they face. Unless you teach, you have no idea of how much schools have changed since you attended.

In my many years of teaching, I remember one or two really "bad" teachers, and believe me, teachers know who the imcompetent ones are and do NOT defend them. They are no longer in our profession, and no one misses them. It is a myth that they cannot fire bad teachers.

I've written about this before, but without the teachers I had while growing up, I would have never learned that there was a huge diverse world beyond the dismal little town where I went to school.

[LibDemAlways]

26. I am an English teacher. I had my share of mediocre teachers.

My math teachers were especially poor. When I went to high school back in the 60's, PE coaches were frequently assigned to teach math and science classes. They didn't understand what they were teaching and it showed.

It's interesting that student opinions of a teacher can vary widely. I recently had dinner with an old high school friend and we were reminiscing about some of our teachers. I was surprised to learn that her favorite was a history teacher in whose class I could hardly stay awake.

When it comes to teachers, some are great, some good, some so-so, and some should have perhaps gone into a more suitable line of work. That's probably true of people in every profession.

[rainbow4321]

29. Out of all the teachers my 2 kids had in school, we had one really bad one

I had called her to ask about my daughter getting 30 points off her test...she had been talking after the test (while others were still taking it) and the teacher told her she would be subtracting 30.

When I finally reached the teacher, I was told that she REALLY was NOT going to subtract 30 points, that she had "only" lied to my daughter and would I please NOT tell my daughter about the lie. It was how she managed to "keep the kids in line, if they thought she would do that"

Um...so SHE lied, now she was asking ME to lie to my own daughter.

She picked the wrong parent to tell this to.

Long story short, I ended up in a meeting with all my kid's teachers after several conversations with the principal. Basically they were circling their wagons to make it look like my high honor roll student was a child that was disrupting all their classes. Funny, I asked, how come she always gets "E" for excellant in her classes for class behavior and participation on her report card??? Disruptive yet excellant??? Disruptive but no one tells me this til NOW?? No phone calls, no parent teacher conference requests.

The teacher involved wouldn't even look me in the eye and let everyone else do the talking.

I think they realized it was a no win situation for them when I asked:

"So you're saying that this minus 30 point rule is a department policy. Was it on that sheet of department rules you guys sent home for parents to sign at the beginning of the year?" Uh, no.

Any OTHER dept "policy" you all DIDN'T tell us parents about that is going to pop up at some point. Uh, no.

And this dept policy that you left out of that paperwork we had to sign , it will be included in NEXT YEAR'S send home paperwork for parents? "um, yeah, sure".


Found out at the end of the year that the teacher involved "resigned" and went to another district.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. It's too bad you don't put as much energy into telling DU

about the really great teachers your kids had.

[Djinn]

30. I had a few terrible ones

and mostly they left teaching pretty quickly, FAR outnumbered by good or great ones.

[YvonneCa]

32. Thank you for saying so. n/t

[jimlup]

35. The bully right has a psycological neurosis about picking on the little guy...

And teachers are one of their favorite targets.

I think the right-wings bully tactics are starting to backfire a bit. People are awaking to it a little. Even in the mainstream.

[ColbertWatcher]

36. k+r, n/t

[Kitty Herder]

37. I had two really bad teachers in Jr. High.

They were both on the verge of retirement and had already checked out mentally. One stayed in the teachers lounge and didn't show up until class was half over. The other just didn't teach. He required a book report. Once. The rest of the school year he literally just babysat while we read novels.

They were both nice guys and I think they had been good teachers at an earlier time in their lives, but they had just given up by the time I was in their classes.

But I've had a lot of truly great, inspiring teachers and professors. I couldn't begin to list them all here. But I will mention one. In high school, the A.P. European teacher taught us to think by challenging our cherished world views (and his own). He also helped me get a 5 on the A.P. test in the process. So Neal, if you're reading, thanks!

[southerncrone]

39. Thank you.

Today, even the best teachers are challenged daily because of the "system". A system that places "appearances" of education above allowing "real" education to take place.

This system claims to have the best interests of the students in mind, when in actuality the best interests of the students are hardly considered at all.

Bottom-line, power struggles on all levels, political jockeying for position, top-heavy administration at the board level, and the "squeakiest wheels" drive decisions.

If teachers could have decently structured days, with reasonable materials, equipment in working order, infrastructures that were not substandard, relief from the massive amounts of documentation & paperwork required now and classrooms that aren't overloaded with too many students who are not ready for learning for various reasons (i.e. lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, lack of peace in their lives, lack of parenting, lack of proper clothing for the weather, to name just a few), then education might have success again.

We do NOT have an EDUCATION problem in America. We have a PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY problem.
Parents are no longer partners in education, they see themselves in an adversarial position & any time the school contacts them about their child, they go on the defensive so fast your head will spin.
This simply confuses kids & compounds whatever problem they are already trying to deal with.

Some of the reasons include:
1. overworked single-parents--the majority of parents today are single-parents.
2. parents do not want to be bothered with any more problems....life already has too many.
3. parents on drugs....speaks for itself.
4. parents who had adversarial relationships in school themselves who can't seem to see that it hasn't served them well, but insist on continuing this for their kids.
5. parents who simply should never have had kids. They don't want to take ANY responsibility for them & expect everyone else to do it for them.

Granted, NOT ALL PARENTS ARE GUILTY OF LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY, but the percentage who are lacking is increasingly high.


Bottom Line:
It's so much easier to place the blame on schools & teachers than to try & "fix" families.

[Taitertots]

40. Most people who believe teachers are supposed to make them learn

It is your responsibility to learn the material. The bad teachers were just in topics they had trouble with or disliked.

I've had several bad teachers.
University-
The Penguin: She would yell at everyone for no reason. If she was speaking and you tried to do anything except stare at her she would scream at you. Even if you were taking notes on what she was saying or looking at what she was talking about. If you ever asked her a question about something she would first yell at you for not listening, then refuse to give you the answer and insist that it was your fault you didn't know it. She was so sickeningly fat we called her the penguin, like from the Batman movie. She smelled terrible too

The Alzheimer's patient: Another chemistry teacher. This guy should have retired decades ago. If you ask him a question you will never get an answer. He will trail off into a totally unrelated topic. A student asked him about a lab, he replied about a baseball player from 30 years ago. His on the board demonstrations were for things like Ammonium nitrate, termite, and potassium perchlorate. Lowest score possible on ratemyprofessor.

High school
The Disciplinarian: I ended the semester with a negative percentage. For any punishment you had to copy pages from an encyclopedia. You could get these for being late, missing assignments or any number of things. These punishments increased with violations and increased with time if you didn't do them. You also got points taken off for sleeping in class, not taking notes on what she wrote on the board, and tardies. I learn on my own, so I don't do homework and I sleep in class. So everyday I had 3 strikes, points for lateness, sleeping, and not taking notes. I passed every test and failed with negative points.

The Busy Worker: The majority of the class points came from busy work. In high school we were coloring maps and doing worksheets in class everyday instead of lecture. I passed every test and failed the class. She thought I was cheating, but I sat surrounded by people who failed every test, had first class to get the tests, and I got watched every test. She passed all the kids who failed every test and copied every worksheet.

[wickerwoman]

42. Amen. I've seen a hell of a lot more bad students than bad teachers.

Students who do absolutely no preparation for class, never participate in discussion, show no interest in the subject, spend the whole class tormenting the kid sitting next to them and then complain that the teacher is terrible or the textbook just isn't interesting.

I've had classes where 80-90% of the students were absolutely passive, bordering on vegetative- they did no homework, took no initiative, had to have every single syllable dragged out of them... I'll accept that some DUers have had bad teacher experiences but I seriously doubt anyone can say with a straight face that 80-90% of their teachers were terrible.

I've taught for ten years and learned for twenty-two and I am absolutely convinced that a "good" student (someone with the right attitude and work ethic) can learn in absolutely any situation and a "bad" student (someone who invests no time or energy in learning) will not learn even if you put the best teacher, the most cutting edge technology, the most fascinating curriculum imaginable in front of him/her. And "bad" students are bordering on the norm, if not the majority, in most schools today.

My first day of class speech used to run along the lines: "I don't want to hear that such and such an essay is "boring". I reject the idea that anything can be inherently boring. *If you are bored it is because you are boring*. Adjust your attitude and anything can be fascinating."

[RBInMaine]

46. I am a middle school teacher and YOU ARE RIGHT ON !! Look, I have 90+ students a day. All diff-

erent kinds of learners and various kinds of family situations and backgrounds; 90+ different sets of baggage. I can not be expected to "inspire" and "motivate" each and every one, much as I may try. We have a mandated body of content to instruct, and I do my best to inject methods and practices to make it more interesting and engaging. But some, no matter what you do, are not going to engage. Look, here is what people need to understand. Most teachers are in this business because we love learning and love working with people to enhance their lives through education; to have a meaningful impact. We work our butts off, and we don't get rich doing it. We are under mountains of pressure, have oceans of meetings, messages, paperwork, emails, calls, committees,...
The vast majority of us do our best under very demanding conditions. Most teachers ARE LIVING UP TO OUR END OF THE BARGAIN. But, what about the students and PARENTS ? Any study you want to look at will tell you that the best students mostly come from stable home environments with some structure and value of learning; support of education AT HOME. All the educational mandates in the world can't replace the RESPONSIBILITY of the parents and the students themselves. Yes, we should always be on the lookout for ways to do our jobs as teachers better, but at some point it is time to place some BIGTIME responsibility back on PARENTS and the students THEMSELVES again. If they have time to play video games and text-message for five hours a day, then they damn well have time to do their homework. In my classes, they get five points off a day and an assigned in-class detention for failing to do homework. If they fail to report to in-class detention, it becomes an administrative detention which goes on their school record. If they get the assignment in before their in-class detention date then they are off the hook for that (although they still get a late penalty in their grade). You would be amazed at how much homework gets turned in when I hand them the detention slip. I tell my students that school is their JOB, and when you don't do your job you get consequences just like in the real world where you get disciplined for not performing your job. I do not give the students pencils because that is THEIR responsibility. Once the door is closed there is no leaving except in emergencies (no parading to the bathroom or fountain). If they tell me they "lost" something (like an assignment paper), I tell them to find it because it didn't grow legs and run away. (You'd be amazed at how many papers become "unlost" this way, especially when I apply the late penalties and detentions.) I tell the students I expect them to be RESPONSIBLE, and I FOLLOW THROUGH on that expectation. There is CHRONIC irresponsibility among kids today. This is by CHOICE. It is due to sheer laziness, tolerance of it by adults, and a failure of proper parenting. I will not allow my students to simply get away with being lazy and irresponsible. To do so only reinforces the laziness. If they hand me a test or quiz with too short an answer or missing an answer, I hand it right back and make them do more. There are clear and immediate consequences for laziness and irresponsibility. Set the expectations and apply consequences clearly and consistently, and watch the responsibility levels go up. (Yes, I also give lots of "GOOD JOB"s and other rewards when they do things right and well. That positive reinforcement is critical too.)

[RBInMaine]

45. Sorry, but I am hearing some sour grapes with you here.

Maybe you have some point with the "penguin" and the "Alzheimer's" guy (but then I am hearing only one side of the story - yours). As a middle school teacher myself, I can say that I have mostly had very good teachers in my life from kinderarten through grad school, a few mediocre ones, and very few "bad" ones. Most have been quite good, many very, very good and for different reasons. Most people have no clue regarding the workload and stress that teachers face every day. Trying to teach and help MANY very different learners master a body of material; endless meetings and mountains of paperwork; endless mountains of mandates; too many behavior problems, highly dysfunctional students who are, sadly, virtually unreachable as much we try... As to the "disciplinarian" it seems the person simply had a clear and no-nonsense classroom management process. GOOD ! Classrooms are academic WORKPLACES, not bedrooms, living rooms, and family rec rooms. If you were sleeping in class and not taking notes, WRONG ANSWER even if you were not always "inspired" by the content or style, and you deserved to receive consequences. Teachers are not there to "entertain". They are there to teach a body of content. Yes, we should try to make it interesting and engaging where possible, but no matter what, it just isn't always going to be "fun". Well too bad. Deal with it. Since when was the world "fun"
24-seven? As to the "busy worker," again, I am only hearing one side. I will agree there needs to be a variety of teaching approaches. As a social studies teacher, I can say that one reason we have students "color in" certain map features while labeling them is that this places the locational geographic features of whatever type of map you are considering much better into long-term memory, facilitates properly coded map legends, and makes for a much more functional study guide when using the maps to prepare for assessments. Many maps require such "coloring." As to using "worksheets," it is fine to do so as part of a curriculum as long as they are content/objective related and are both introduced and followed-up properly. Good worksheets, as well as good assessments, should also include both objective and constructed response items.

[Taitertots]

66. I got an A in Penguin and Alzheimer's classes

They were university level classes and they didn't care if didn't turn in homework. By passing all the tests I got great grades.


The other two were high school level teachers. The disciplinarian was just hated by everyone, I could care less. I got the same credit for doing no work in night school. Her being a bad teacher was generally agreed upon by everyone in the class and everyone I have ever heard mention it. Busy worker was a nothing class, everyone except me cheated on every handout, the tests were a joke that everyone but me scored poorly on. The coloring was never adding substance, just coloring in existing lines, it was color by numbers. I got the credit for the class at night school for doing nothing but watch movies.


Why don't you instead of grading homework just hand them a solutions page when you would have collected it. Then put that information on tests and make them the basis of the grades. Then only have two comprehensive tests, so you have even less to grade.


The problem is I'm the smartest bad student. I sleep in class, I don't do homework, and I make almost no effort. I learn without effort. Just sitting and listening to a math teacher is enough for me to solve math problems. I have not even solved a single differential equation all semester except on tests and I'm poised to get an A. The little bits of information I got in the busy worker class before I would fall asleep was enough to pass every test.

[RBInMaine]

68. You might know something about being "the smartest bad student," but little about teaching.

Homework functions as practice and extends learning, and every bit of research shows that out-of-class work increases academic performance. Will some kids cheat? Sure. Will some blow it off? Sure. Oh well. I hold their feet to the fire as best I can nonetheless. Why? Because it will pay off for them down the road. It is a life lesson as well. Most just don't have your professed ability to slack and excel in school or life. It requires a work ethic. If you can do that, good for you. Most can't. Also, at the middle school level you don't assess students based on one or two tests. You assess based on a larger and more diverse body of work. Try that and forget about teaching, at least at this level. So, with your advanced academic skills I assume you are a successful professional today pulling down multiple figures and a leader in your field? What field, may I ask?

[Taitertots]

70. I'm still in college

I'm a student at the University of Michigan right now. I'm going for double bachelors mechanical engineering and business management. I work as a security guard right now. Last summer, I was a prototype vehicle test driver, which I might pursue again this summer depending on my course load. My slacking doesn't extend into my work life.


If anything assign homework and give regular quizzes about the information, if you feel like grading from a larger body of work. That way the body of work you grade from isn't totally independent of whether or not they get the material.

[RBInMaine]

77. Of course the are several quizzes and tests each quarter correlated to the material in the homework

assignments. These include practical, objective, and constructed response items to demonstrate that they "get it" across various measures, modalities, and levels of thinking.

Best of luck to you at the University of Michigan, an excellent school. My father is an engineer and actually invented and patented a secondary combustion chamber to greatly improve the efficiency of word-burning furnaces. We have an outstanding engineering program at U-Maine as well. I'm sure you will pull down those multiple figure salaries as you proceed in your career. More importantly, if you have not already done so, I hope you will become involved in your community and commit yourself, in some ways, to the betterment of society. Do you have an interest in pursuing something related to "green technology" development? But, have some fun here and there too :-) Take it easy.

PS: I have a friend in Jackson, MI and have visted that state. We once traveled from Jackson to Mackinac Island. Nice state. Reminds me of Maine in some ways, especially up north.

[checks-n-balances]

41. Too many people equate their bad experiences w/the present situation

Some of the most vocal recent posters on DU who want to talk about the "bad teachers" they had as children are assuming that the same kinds of people are allowed to teach today. I really believe that most of them are projecting their own past experiences onto a different present situation. I cannot stress this enough!

The experiences I had as a child and an adolescent years ago in the classroom that I remember being unpleasant in relation to teachers were due to things that are not really allowed any more - either related to archaic methods of punishment or attitudes toward the students.

I dare say that most of the "bad" teachers who used to exist in the schools are no longer there - either because they've retired, passed on, or have left the teaching profession altogether due to low evaluations. For at least 20 years in the school systems with which I am familiar, "bad" teachers have been weeded out and would not survive in today's school environment.

BTW, thanks so much for starting this thread.

[Joe Fields]

44. That has not been my experience. I have had numerous bad

and disinterested, uninspiring teachers. Most of the teachers I had were adequate, not really inspiring, but not bad, either. The truth is, though that I did have a lot of bad teachers, ones who didn't have the subject matter mastered, ones who came to school hungover, ones who clearly wanted to be anywhere but the classroom on any given day, teachers who abused students, both physically and psychologically, ones who did the bare minimum to meet their requirements, and ones who weren't as smart as me. Now, when you are a student, and the teacher cannot answer your questions, and shows no interest in getting you the answer to your questions, then that is a little disconcerting.

To say that teachers ARE the problem, or that teachers are NOT the problem does little to advance any dialogue that will bring solutions to the great problem of education in this country.

Most people on this site think I just like to bash teachers. It is convenient for them to think that. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I love teachers; good, dedicated ones. But I will not sit here and say that there are no bad teachers, and that they are not part of the problem when I know otherwise.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. If you don't want most people here thinking you just like to bash teachers,

then maybe you should quit bashing teachers.

Just a thought. :)

[Joe Fields]

67. like I said, it's really convenient for you to think that way.

If you weren't so blind, and would quit stubbornly saying how great all teachers are, then I might quit pointing it out. Obviously you haven't gotten the message.

The mind of a good teacher would be expansive enough to allow that there ARE, in fact a lot of bad teachers out there. So, where does that leave you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. Because as I have told you repeatedly, there are not a "lot of" bad teachers out there

Everyone has at least one and that's the teacher they talk about when the subject comes up. One out of dozens over many years.

And I am not blind. Every single time I see you post in these teacher threads, you are posting critical remarks about teachers. If you have been saying good things, I missed those.

You are the one missing the message. Criticizing teachers is not going to improve education. It might make you feel better and maybe even like you are getting a bit of revenge over that teacher you didn't like, but it doesn't really help improve schools, now does it?

I started a thread for good teacher stories. Perhaps you would like to post your good teacher story.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5441685&mesg_id=5441685

[GoCubsGo]

47. They're being used as a bludgeon on the public school system...

I think that's ridiculous. I went to both Catholic and public schools. Some of the worst teachers I had were in the Catholic schools, even though they are widely touted as being superior. I had lots more really great teachers in the public school.

I also went to two different universities and have two degrees. One was a Catholic school, the other public. Great teachers at both, as well as some who had no business in the classroom. However, things are different at the university level. At least in the sciences, professors tend to be hired for their research skills and their ability to get a PhD and grant money, rather than for their teaching skills. I have had instructors who were brilliant researchers who couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag. But, as you say, that not the fault of the teachers. It's the fault of the idiotic university systems, where bringing in money is more important than educating the students. (Not the case for all schools, but it definitely is for many, especially the large state universities.)

[anigbrowl]

55. I can count a number

I figure the number of particularly bad teachers who ought to find another line of work is roughly similar to the number of exceptional educators who could hold any class spellbound. Bad teachers are not 'the' problem, they're 'a' problem among many other problems. I see no reason to go around pretending this problem doesn't exist. I know good teachers who left the profession because they were so frustrated with the seniority system holding them back, while they were being supervised by someone less competent and (very possibly) less intelligent. Education should provide opportunities for everyone, but within the educational establishment I am strongly in favor of a meritocratic system.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. So you in in favor of allowing

those "less competent and (very possibly) less intelligent" supervisors to decide how much to pay the teachers they are not very good at supervising?

[anigbrowl]

63. No, and I think you know that was not what I meant.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. I think you meant you are in favor of merit pay

And that would mean those poor administrators would be deciding who makes how much money. You do understand that's how merit pay works?

[LWolf]

72. Thank you. nt

[litlady]

76. I am a teacher and had more than one "bad" teacher ...

however, most of them were in college! I even had an unfortunate teacher or two in graduate school. I went to an inner city high school and nearly all of my teachers were really good! Most of my middle school and elementary teachers were really good. I had one fifth grade teacher that was really not fit for the job. But for the most part I had strong teachers despite being in one of the country's largest districts.

[elleng]

78. That is,

Teachers were not YOUR problem.

[Downtown Hound]

91. Were they yours?

[elleng]

95. No

.

[elleng]

79. Everyone, especially teachers, should know about Multiple Intelligences.

http://www.strategy-business.com/press/article/07209?gko=123fa

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5445011&mesg_id=5445055

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. Are you assuming teachers don't know about Gardner's work?

I believe that book is required reading in nearly every first year teacher education course.

So what are you implying?

[elleng]

85. I am not assuming or implying anything;

I'm simply ASSERTING that teachers should be familiar with it.

I further think that teachers should make use of the information in Gardners work in their everyday approach to teaching.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. I believe most of the ones I know do indeed incorporate Gardner's theories

into their teaching.

[newportdadde]

83. I've had two really 'bad' teachers, wish I was as lucky with coworkers.

Two really bad ones, one in elementary and the other in college. Most fell in between good and bad.

[Matariki]

86. I had some terrible, terrible teachers. But it was back when it was legal to beat kids

and that profession seemed to attract some real sadists.

One guy used to make kids lean against a wall and support their weight by their thumbs only. If they stopped he'd smack them with a metal ruler. That was my 6th grade teacher - a real bastard. He delighted in making kids jump during quiet study times by sneaking behind them and smacking the back of their seats with said ruler - he'd laugh and laugh when he managed to really scare someone. He was particularly vicious in picking on the most unpopular and ostracized kids by humiliating them in front of the class, making fun of their clothing or how poor their parents were.

My 7th grade social studies teacher used to happily brag that by year's end every single boy in the class would receive at least one paddling from his *special* wooden paddle with holes drilled in it. He'd make them all sign the paddle afterward. If any boy in the class hadn't been paddled, he'd line them up on the last day of class for their mandatory beating. I'm pretty certain he was probably some sort of pedophile.

I *wish* I were making this stuff up.

[Downtown Hound]

88. And there's people that want to go back to those times-unbelievable

Thank Gawd that shit is illegal now. Those 'teachers" have some nasty Karma coming to them.

[Bucky]

87. I am a bad teacher

B-b-b-bad

B-b-b-bad

B-b-b-bad

Bad to bone!

[steelmania75]

90. Oh, there's bad teachers

[Downtown Hound]

92. I never said there aren't

But I don't think there's very many. And I don't think teachers are the reason our eduction system is as poor as it is.

[madmom]

93. Bad teacher or bad school administration? You tell me ...my 5 year old

grand daughter is in pre kindergarten. She has an IEP, for speech therapy. Her mother noticed the teacher forcing her to use her right hand. When asked why, she said "they want all the students to be alike so they don't have to spend money on "special" equipment for them". Meaning left handed scissors and the like.I told my son and daughter-in-law tell the freaking teacher I'll buy her "special" equipment.So who is to blame here, the teacher, the admin. or the NCLB? How much would have to be spent on the few pairs of left handed scissors they would need? Some things get carried a bit far IMO.

[Downtown Hound]

96. Well, I'm left handed, so I can give you my perspective

When you say "forcing" her to use her right hand, in what context are you referring? Are they forcing her to write right handed? And if so, how?

First of all, there's no reason to force a child to write right handed. We spawns of Satan (the word sinister comes from the latin word sinestra, which means left. For years, left handedness was viewed as a sign of Satan) use the same pens and pencils you do, so there's no need for the school to even worry about that. As for things like scissors, well, I use the right handed ones. Why? Because that's the way I was taught. No one ever made an issue of it when I went to school. They handed me the scissors and had me go to work. As a result, the right handed ones feel natural to me now. The left handed ones feel awkward.

The same is true for things like left-handed desks and writing notebooks. After years of using the right handed ones, it just became natural to me. I never felt like there was anything unusual or different about it. The only thing I ever did notice was when I got older and my hands started to sweat more, my tests and papers and so forth would get all dirty. The ink would smear across the pages and they would get all crumpled up. I never could figure out why this was so until one day it hit me. IT'S BECAUSE I WAS LEFT HANDED USING RIGHT HANDED PAPER! Light bulb goes on!

You see, when right handed people write on right handed paper, the side of your hand is moving away from the ink. When left handed people do it, we run the side of our hand right over the fresh ink that has just been put to the page, thus having a tendency to smear it. But by the time I finally figured this out, I was so used to the right handed versions of everything that the left handed ones felt awkward. I compensated by simply putting a piece of scrap paper underneath my hand when it got too sweaty during a test. Worked like a charm.

But going back to the issue of left handed scissors, well, I would say bad administration. There's a statistical certainty that certain percentage of the population will be left handed, so I really don't think it would be that big of a deal for them to buy a few left handed scissors. So, they're cheap bastards. But at the same time, I can tell you that in my personal experience, using the right handed ones was never that big of a deal, especially if the child is taught that way from the get go. They will likely never know the difference and not realize that they're not using the ones they're "supposed" to be using. Most people are at least partially ambidextrous anyways.

But maybe you might want to buy some left handed scissors. I can only tell you my experience, which may not be applicable to your granddaughter's.