Isn't divorce off limit for Catholics?

[Liberal_in_LA]

Mel Gibson is an ultra extreme catholic. I thought divorce was off limits. Things must be bad
for the Mrs. to file divorce.

[monmouth]

1. Nah, we've been telling Rome to shove it for years....n/t

[madinmaryland]

2. Divorce is off limits, but apparently having extra-marital affairs are not to Catholics.

:popcorn:

Way to go Mel the hypocrit.

[Midlodemocrat]

3. Remarriage is off limits. Not necessarily divorce. Remarriage would be committing adultery.

And, she could go for an annulment with the crazy behavior he's been exhibiting.

[madinmaryland]

8. Annulment after 28 years??

I've been married to a Catholic for 12 years and she hasn't annulled me for my crazy behavior (yet) :rofl:

[Midlodemocrat]

11. If she can prove that he violated the covenants of the marriage

over that period, yeah.

I had a friend who got an annulment after 12 years. He was a serial cheater and she desperately tried to keep the family together to no avail.

So, that was no surprise. She takes her faith seriously and even though she hasn't remarried, she wanted the opportunity to do so should it present itself.

Oh, and Mrs. Madinmaryland? She's discovered you're worth way more dead than divorced, so you should probably sleep with one eye open, Sparky.

[madinmaryland]

19. I'm not a Catholic so I don't know their rules.

and i'm not a cheater. Two wives (not a mormon) and never cheated.

About the only thing that would it make it worthwhile for me to be dead, kiddoe, is that she would have control of the "remote"

:rofl:

[Midlodemocrat]

21. Not a cheater, either.

And if Mr. doesn't stop crucifying me about getting the taxes done? He will sleep with the fishes.

[glinda]

24. Annulment allows you to remarry, stay in the good graces of the Church but in reality

it is a Divorce. It used to be that annulment was only granted early on in the marriage. Guess they bend the rules where they want to for big patrons. As usual.

[Midlodemocrat]

27. Not in the eyes of the Church. They're completely different.

And, I've known plenty of people who got them who were far from 'big patrons'.

[glinda]

55. I am only reporting what I knew as a former Catholic who went through a Divorce and

consulted with a Priest on proceeding. That was back in late 70's.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

68. Yep, my stepdad plans on getting one

His wife cheated on him repeatedly.

[a la izquierda]

63. Oh lord, you sound like you know my mom! Nt

[MetaTrope]

33. Can't we be pretty sure the marriage was never consummated?

[Ilsa]

22. What does annulment do to the kids they had in the marriage?

Are "bastardized" by some old, stupid rule?

[Midlodemocrat]

28. No, they are not 'bastards'.

The whole idea of annulment is a way for people who have been in marriages that didn't conform to the Church's teachings to erase the 'bad debt' and possibly find happiness again.

Contrary to what people on this thread are saying...they aren't granted lightly. Sometimes it takes years and reams and reams of proof that the marriage wasn't what it should have been.

[CreekDog]

32. If only the Cardinals could marry, I would then bet it wouldn't be so hard to prove to them

:think:

[SoxFan]

37. Unfortunately, they are very politicized

If you are a wealthy and connected Catholic, your odds of receiving an annulment from a diocesan tribunal are significantly higher than if you are an average schlub.

Joe Kennedy had no problem getting Cardinal Law to grant an annulment, even though Joe's ex-wife Sheila was contesting the move.

[Goblinmonger]

40. Oh, please.

My mother-in-law got an annulment. She had 7 kids. The youngest at the time of the annulment was 17; the oldest was 29. It was clearly so she could still receive communion. There is NO WAY that marriage should have been annulled. I get if you were married a short time and realize the other person had some faults you didn't know about so the contract was basically null and void. But 7 kids and 30 years later is kinda BS.

[NightWatcher]

4. they do it all the time now, thankfully...my ex was catholic

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

5. He's not even a real Catholic

He's some whacked out Catholic off-shoot.

[RB TexLa]

30. Building a church not under any diocese and not adherent to Papal authority would

cause one to be consider being in schism.


I have no problem with the Latin mass, it's beautiful and of course still valid when said by a priest with valid orders, but the rejection of a council of the church brings about big problems.

[TahitiNut]

6. He could certainly afford to have the marriage declared null by the Vatican.

It's a costly and time-consuming process, but not at all unheard-of. It's more difficult since she's the mother of his children and they were married in a Catholic church ... but it's been done.

:shrug:

[Spazito]

14. Yep, he has the dollars to buy the anullment...

or at least he does right now. He better hurry though, he may not have it once a divorce settlement is enforced, lol.

[Cleita]

16. He has a lot of kids. This makes it a little difficult to prove

that no marriage in fact took place, however, with his bucks I'm sure the Curia can find an obscure canon to cover it.

[dflprincess]

67. Actual, the trick with annulment is that the marriage was not

"sacramental" (apparently, the blessings said at the wedding service don't always take). Contrary to popular belief, the church does not consider the children of an annuled marriage to be bastards.

Mrs. Mel may have a case for annulment if it is true that he's been cheating - he'd have a harder time getting one.

[pnwmom]

46. No, he couldn't.

Because he left the Catholic Church long ago to build his own vanity church.

You can't be a Roman Catholic and at the same time be a member, much less the founder, of your own special "Old Catholic Church."

[leftchick]

7. not unless you have a lot of money

which mel has.

[Ilsa]

23. So, apparently it IS easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Typical, for politics and other stuff, but for religion? Say it isn't so!!!

[glinda]

25. Funny as hell!

[leftchick]

43. I doubt it

Jesus shunned material comforts. It is an illusion for Catholics and other 'Christians' to think they can buy their way to heaven.

[Ilsa]

64. I know, I know. True, it is an illusion. And some people are

willing to part with their money for it, and some people with "the power" are willing to sell heavenly favors.

[marimour]

51. yeah

I know a couple that hasn't gotten married after 10 years of being together b/c the wife cant get approval from the Vatican. I don't know why they listen to it. I'll be dammed if a denomination tells me when and who I can get married to.

[robdogbucky]

9. No divorce

No separation.

Annulments can be bought, pro-rated, based on length of marriage.

My brother sought to hire a priest to do his second marriage and when told it would cost him to buy the annulment of his first marriage first, he quit the church in a huff and got married to the love of his life.

My sister bought one for a marriage of 27 years in which she had two boys now aged 26 and 22.

I've been meaning to ask her if that means the boys never existed, or if they are now bastards, or what?

I have refrained from asking these obvious questions, as I was also raised Catholic in the same house. I just think it would be poorly received and thought of as simple taunting. There is always confession though.

Go figure.

robdogbucky

[Midlodemocrat]

13. Um, no idea what you're talking about. Buying annulments?

One of my family's best friends was the highest ranking AMerican at the Vatican and he would categorically deny what you are saying.

[Ikonoklast]

36. Annulments cost money.

And usually will take up to a year.

And, if the archbishop of your diocese has a personal distaste for offering annulments, it gets more expensive and will take longer.

I bailed when they started talking about $3000.00. FUCK THAT.

[sarcasmo]

45. I wonder how my first wife did that with the church. I thought it was all money. Thanks.

[cherish44]

10. All you need to get an annulment in the Catholic Church is about $3000 to pay for it

They'll make you fresh a new spring daisy if you can pay up.

[pnwmom]

48. Oh yeah? Funny that RFK Jr. couldn't get one then. n/t

[EFerrari]

12. I heard that she isn't Catholic. The consequence for Gibson (if that's right)

will be that he can't marry again in the Church.

[Ilsa]

20. She is Episcopalian, I believe. Attends Mass every day. nt

[pnwmom]

50. He "can't anything" in the Roman Catholic church

because he left that church long ago to build his own special church that just happens to have the word "Catholic" in it.

But I'm sure his own church will be happy to give him the annulment.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

69. Neither is he

[Cleita]

15. For the rank and file but if you are a rich princess from Monaco, you can

get an annulment with no problems.

[SoxFan]

38. Or a Kennedy

Hey, I love them, too, but facts is facts.

[rurallib]

17. Well when I was a kid and all the catholic church was the extreme

version the answer was yes.
Divorce = mortal sin. But the Church did not recognize a divorce if the marriage was blessed by the church. This was Henry VIII problem.
If you got civilly divorced, you were still married to the spouse in the church's eyes. Any sex with any one else = mortal sin.
Annulments could only happen if the marriage had not been consummated (no sex between parties). One fuck and you're married forever.
Boy has that changed. I had a friend that had 3 kids. Cost him $25,000 for an annulment.

And it made no difference who filed, both parties were screwn, so to speak.

[pnwmom]

52. Gibson hasn't been a Roman Catholic ever since he left the Church

to found his own fundie Church.

[rurallib]

58. So would he be under the former rules or would he be another Henry 8th?

[pnwmom]

59. Henry the 8th, I guess. n/t

[rurallib]

60. Let the divorces commence!

[spanone]

18. so is diddling altar boys....yet

[SoxFan]

39. irrelevant, childish, flame-bait

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillowTree]

29. I don't know where some of you get these ideas.

Or maybe you just make them up out of whole cloth.

With sufficient grounds, an annulment can be granted and it doesn't cost anything like $25,000. It took some time and paperwork, but my Church marriage was annulled and all I was asked to pay was the cost of said paperwork and a minimal psych evaluation, less than $500 total. Far, far less than the civil divorce cost both me and my ex.

And the Church doesn't bar Catholics from getting a divorce. That is considered a civil matter and the Church doesn't get involved. Once married in the Church, one cannot be re-married in the Church without an annulment, though.

And for the record, I don't have any particular ax to grind here. I left the Catholic Church years ago for unrelated reasons so defending it isn't a real high priority in my life. What's stated above are just the facts based on my own personal experience and what I've learned from others I know.

[Midlodemocrat]

34. Thank you. Exactly what I was saying without personal experience.

[Donnachaidh]

31. annullment after 28 years and a crop of kids just ain't gonna fly.

Poor little Mel is going to be an *outed* sinner now. :shrug:

[pnwmom]

53. Annulment when neither party is a Roman Catholic ain't gonna fly.

Except that Gibson could get his own fundie church -- the one he founded -- to give him an annulment, I'm sure.

[Richard Steele]

57. My grandfather got an annulment from the Church after almost that long.

I think my mom was in her teens when he split, and the oldest
of SEVEN kids he had with Grandma.

He got an annulment, remarried, and was a Catholic in good standing again.

[Donnachaidh]

73. translation -- he knew somebody who knew somebody

They aren't THAT easy to get. My aunt was threatened with an annulment, because her hubby had found a *good catholic* girlfriend. Mister dumbass used as just one of his reasons for the annulment -- his wife didn't IRON his underwear! No kids involved, so it should have been a slam dunk, yes? My aunt fought it and he got nada.

[geckosfeet]

35. ultra extreme alcoholic as well

[bridgit]

41. Gibson seems different: Mel Gibson builds a $37m church in the Malibu hills

'The private church now has $37 million in its coffers - up from $27 million last year, according to the tax document.

Gibson's secretive sect is not recognized by the Roman Catholic Church because it does not acknowledge the authority of the Pope or the Vatican and rejects the universally accepted teachings of the Second Vatican Council.

The church - which offers a daily morning mass in Latin - follows an antiquated ideology of Catholicism dating back to the 16th century.

Female followers of Gibson's church must abide by a strict dress code, requiring them to wear veils over their hair and long skirts, with a ban on pants for women.

The exclusive parish currently caters for about 70 families, with the existing chapel having seating for only 100 people.'

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,23663,22363662-7485,00.html

Maybe with 'irreconcilable differences' Robyn is being diplomatic

[pnwmom]

54. Which also means that this whole discussion of R.C. annulments doesn't apply.

I'm sure he can rewrite the rules of his own Church, however, if he feels the need for one.

[bridgit]

56. True but still poor Robyn; married to Mad Max, Mel Gibson, The Patriot...

and 2-3 crazy detective dudes *and* Fletcher Christian all playing all the angles all the time must be daunting :(

[pnwmom]

61. He's a major narcissist. After all,

how many people are movie stars AND set up their own authoritarian Churches?

[Liberal_in_LA]

72. veils & no pants for women but Mel can do as he pleases

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[SoxFan]

42. The real irony

Gibson has played footsie with sedevanist sects for years. These guys pose as ultra-orthodox Catholics, but they reject most of the Vatican II reforms. Some go so far as to say that Pope John XXIII was an illegitimate usurper, and that the right-wing Cardinal Siri was the the true Pope from the 1958 conclave.

Yet they accuse everyone else of being "cafeteria Catholics".

Gibson will get his annulment. He has enough friends in the ultraconservative wing of the Church that he will be able to "diocese shop" and find someone to give him what he wants.

[goodgd_yall]

44. No, it isn't. Read post #29 for the facts. n/t

[pnwmom]

47. Gibson isn't a Roman Catholic, so the annulment process for R.C.'s has nothing

to do with him. (His wife isn't either.)

However, he is a founder and builder of his own vanity church -- I suspect his "Catholic" church will now write the rules to let him do anything he wants.

[goodgd_yall]

49. I was responding to the question

I don't know or care anything about Gibson.

[southernyankeebelle]

62. WELL AS FAR AS I KNOW YOU CAN BE EXCOMUNICATED HOWEVER

YOU CAN BUY YOUR WAY TO RECEIVING COMMUNION AGAIN. AM CATHOLIC AND I DON'T BELIEVE IN DIVORCE EITHER UNLESS YOUR SPOUSE BEATS THE HELL OUT OF YOU. I BELIEVE YOU MAKE YOUR BED AND YOU LIE IN IT. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE KIDS.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

70. Dude, check your caps lock

And for a "Catholic," you're pretty clueless about the Church.

As for staying together for the kids, my grandparents did that and raised three wonderfully fucked up children.

[juno jones]

65. I always wondered why she didn't leave before

It's not like he's sounded like much of a catch since the '80's. When he first started ranting in public about his religion and caveman regard for women right after 'The Bounty' I felt a little ambushed. I had really enjoyed his movies and, yes, thought he was cute. I've avoided his films like plague since because I never wanted to give him money or waste my time on his efforts (most were mediocre hollywood schlock anyway...)

Maybe it's the fact he's around the house all the time now. Before, he was always in some exotic locale filming this or that. Now, in the twilight of his career, he's probably just mooching around, getting drunk everyday and holding hands with hotties who don't really know a thing about him besides his stardom. It probably has gotten really old. Good for Robyn. She'll be getting 50/50.

[Liberal_in_LA]

71. She was married to a rich, famous man, has many many kids... that's why

Now she's tired of his crap.

[Hekate]

66. Separation of church and state means you can get a civil divorce but the church may beg to differ

In the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church the Gibsons will remain married until the Church says they aren't.

However, the civil laws of the State of California will decide the division of property and child support, and they will be able to remarry in either a civil ceremony or in another church that allows divorce and remarriage.

That's one of the reasons the heartburn over gay marriage is so bogus. The Catholic Church may also refuse to sanctify the marriage of anyone it chooses, and that would never change. As it stands now, they don't remarry divorced people and no one from the state can make them.

Hekate