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Tomorrow we are going to know a lot more about what sort of Administraton we have now.

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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 01:49 PM
Original message
Tomorrow we are going to know a lot more about what sort of Administraton we have now.
Edited on Wed Apr-15-09 01:53 PM by ThomWV
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/04/obama_to_release_unredacted_torture_memos.php

"Tomorrow, the Department of Justice plans to release largely underacted versions of three Bush-era memorandums that critics suspect contain legal justification for torture and the broad use of executive power during wartime, according to an administration official. The critical question: how much does the administration withhold in the name of national security?

After the Obama administration released nine earlier memorandums, written between 2002 and 2008 by several Justice Department lawyers, the administration asked a judge for more time to review three others, written by a senior Bush administration lawyer, Stephen Bradbury, over several years of Bush's second term. One of those memos reportedly outlines, in detail, the techniques that CIA officers and interrogators can use to extract information from subjects. According to the Wall Street Journal, the government authorized CIA officers to slam a detainee's head against a wall memos have since been withdrawn by the Obama administration, which has begun an interagency review on interrogation methods. The memos were obtained from the government by the American Civil Liberties Union.

The Journal reported yesterday that the administration was leaning towards a comprehensive redaction of the operational details revealed by a memo, leaving intact the legal analysis used to justify them. That Solomonic compromise would not satisfy civil libertarians and would probably anger many Democrats in Congress. Depending on the scope of the blacked out parts, the administration will be forced to justify its decisions in a federal court, next week. That would put it in the position of having to repeat classification arguments made by the Bush administration in 2007."

Considerably more at the link.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. we shall see a bit of what Eric Holder is made of
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Could beltway blindness have a limit?
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 01:09 AM by pat_k
Prosecution of Bush and Cheney for turning Americans into torturers is our inescapable duty. With each successive revelation; each proud declaration of guilt from Bush or Cheney, Obama's refusal to acknowledge that duty is more mystifying.

Given the horrors that are already public record, it is difficult to imagine what it would take to finally break through their resistance. But apparently the content of these memos has them running scared ("Uh oh. If this gets out, we'll have to actually Do Something.") Whether or not the content is actually "worse" than anything already known, it looks like they think it is. Perhaps, even as they seek to escape the necessity to act by concealing the content of the memos from us, they've glimpsed the truth: "this demands prosecution."
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think they already know they will have to do something but are trying
to make the moment of their making and not dictated to them.

I don't know how many other DUers did this but even before Obama was sworn in, I felt sad for the amount of his tenure that he was going to have to devote to cleaning up after the Disaster President.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. "cleaning up after the Disaster President"
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 10:17 AM by pat_k
What makes it all the more painful is that their tragic inability to overcome impeachophobia enabled the White House torturers to wage their war on the Constitution unchallenged -- and enabled the BushCheney regime to destroy so much. Impeachment is the weapon we gave our Congress -- Our Voice -- to fight to preserve our government against such attack. At times their stubborn resistance to taking up that weapon day after day, month after month, year after year, has been unbearable.

But, even though we were unable to "cure" enough impeachophobes to make impeachment a reality, there have been victories along the way. (It was not all that long ago that DC denizens refused to even utter the word "torture.") As would have been the case if they had they taken up the fight to impeach, there are always benefits to fighting when principle demands it, regardless of outcome. We can take heart that our efforts engaged others in the fight, chipped away at DC denial, and increased the likelihood of making prosecution a reality.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I hope so. I can't even look at Nancy Pelosi without getting angry.
We need to roll back the secrecy above all -- including DC doublespeak like "harsh interrogation" when what is meant is i]torture. It's going to be a challenge to remain in a supportive posture to the new administration and work on that because it will naturally try to defend the power of the Executive and the power to occlude the working of the government is part of that power as things now stand.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I still can't listen to any of them for more than a minute . . .
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 11:12 AM by pat_k
. . .without feeling like I have to scream. These days I must rely on second hand reports and transcripts -- and even those are hard to bear. Only when I can "stick with it" long enough to Do Something -- to call; to post an objection to idiotic articles or blog entries, something, anything -- does it become bearable. (Unfortunately, it's taken me a good bit of "time off" since the inauguration to even begin to re-engage.) Words of encouragement are as much for myself as for anyone else.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think you're right, "they've glimpsed the truth"
and it "demands prosecution."

I've been assuming it's worse than we know.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. I tried to recommend the post, received an error message...
it moved the post to the GP, but did not change the count to 5 recommendations.



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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yep-- it's all messed up for now. n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yes, just tried to recommend another post, seems to move them
to the GP, but the displayed count does not change.

So rec anyway.

:)


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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
10. i'm trying to give this the 5th rec
but getting an error.
it's almost 1 pm. any ideas on where to go to see what they release? i'll try aclu.org
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Posted an update here....
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. looks like some odd bug. this thread appears in MULTIPLE copies

on the greatest/latest page, however when opened it shows only four recs.

bizarre.

:shrug:
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. yeah
i reported a bug when it happened again on another thread. i'm seeing it on the greatest page about 10 times.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. I wish i could say i have faith that we will get the truth in full..but sorry to say ..i don't
after seeing this shit.......

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/16/feingold-i-told-congress-so/


Feingold: I Told Congress So
By: emptywheel Thursday April 16, 2009 9:38 am 0
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I'll have more on this shortly. But if I were Feingold, my statement about the abuse of the warrantless wiretapping program would have been even stronger.

Since 2001, I have spent a lot of time in the Intelligence Committee, the Judiciary Committee, and on the floor of the Senate bringing attention to both the possible and actual effects of legislation that has dangerously expanded the power of the executive branch to spy on innocent Americans. Despite these efforts, Congress insisted on enacting several measures including the USA PATRIOT Act, the Protect America Act, and the FISA Amendments Act, embarking on a tragic retreat from the principles that had governed the sensitive area of government surveillance for the previous three decades. Congress must get to work fixing these laws that have eroded the privacy and civil liberties of law-abiding citizens. In addition, the administration should declassify certain aspects of how these authorities have been used so that the American people can better understand their scope and impact.


*************updated........

Feingold (and ACLU): I Told Congress So
By: emptywheel Thursday April 16, 2009 9:38 am 0
diggs
digg it

I'll have more on this shortly. But if I were Feingold, my statement about the abuse of the warrantless wiretapping program would have been even stronger.

Since 2001, I have spent a lot of time in the Intelligence Committee, the Judiciary Committee, and on the floor of the Senate bringing attention to both the possible and actual effects of legislation that has dangerously expanded the power of the executive branch to spy on innocent Americans. Despite these efforts, Congress insisted on enacting several measures including the USA PATRIOT Act, the Protect America Act, and the FISA Amendments Act, embarking on a tragic retreat from the principles that had governed the sensitive area of government surveillance for the previous three decades. Congress must get to work fixing these laws that have eroded the privacy and civil liberties of law-abiding citizens. In addition, the administration should declassify certain aspects of how these authorities have been used so that the American people can better understand their scope and impact.

Update: Caroline Fredrickson of the ACLU engages in some well-earned "I told you so" speech, too.

“Congress was repeatedly warned that this type of abuse would be the obvious outcome of passing the FISA Amendments Act,” said Caroline Fredrickson, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. “Congressional leadership promised after this law’s passage that it would be reexamined along with the Patriot Act. It’s time to fulfill that promise and restore the checks and balances of our surveillance system. Warrantless surveillance has no place in an America we can be proud of. These revelations make it clear that Congress must now make a commitment to rein in government surveillance.”





xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/15/did-holder-know-about-the-significant-misconduct-when-doj-claimed-sovereign-immunity/#more-3945

Did Holder Know About the “Significant Misconduct” When DOJ Claimed Sovereign Immunity?
By: emptywheel Wednesday April 15, 2009 8:19 pm 11
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On April 3, DOJ submitted a filing that argued that no citizen had the ability to sue if she had been wrongly wiretapped under Bush's illegal wiretap program. The government, DOJ claimed, had sovereign immunity that protected it from such suits.

As set forth below, in the Wiretap Act and ECPA, Congress expressly preserved sovereign immunity against claims for damages and equitable relief, permitting such claims against only a “person or entity, other than the United States.” See 18 U.S.C. § 2520; 18 U.S.C. § 2707. Plaintiffs attempt to locate a waiver of sovereign immunity in other statutory provisions, primarily through a cause of action authorized by the Stored Communications Act, 18 U.S.C. § 2712, but this attempt fails. Section 2712 does not erase the express reservations of sovereign immunity noted above, because it applies solely to a narrow set of allegations not presented here: where the Government obtains information about a person through intelligence-gathering, and Government agents unlawfully disclose that information. Likewise, the Government preserves its position that Congress also has not waived sovereign immunity under in FISA to permit a damages claim against the United States.

Today, just 11 days later, we learn that,

As part of investigation , a senior F.B.I. agent recently came forward with what the inspector general’s office described as allegations of “significant misconduct” in the surveillance program, people with knowledge of the investigation said. Those allegations are said to involve the question of whether the N.S.A. targeted Americans in eavesdropping operations based on insufficient evidence tying them to terrorism.

So when Eric Holder's DOJ made expansive claims arguing that no one could sue federal employees for being wrongly wiretapped under Bush's illegal program, did he know this revelation from Glenn Fine's investigation into the wiretapping program? When DOJ claimed sovreign immunity, were they thinking not so much of the Jewel plaintiffs, whose claim was focused on the dragnet collection of US person data, but of the Americans targeted in what Glenn Fine's office considers "significant misconduct"?

Because if Holder did know (and the timing suggests it is quite likely he did), it makes those cynical claims of sovereign immunity all the more disturbing.

Fine's investigation will contribute to the larger FAA-mandated Inspector General's for which there is a presumption of openness. In other words, even if this hadn't been leaked now, in April, it is supposed to be published in unclassified form in July.


Read the rest of this entry »

.....................................................

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/15/lichtblau-and-risen-report-ongoing-fisa-violations/#more-3944

Lichtblau and Risen Report Illegal Wiretapping of Americans … Again
By: emptywheel Wednesday April 15, 2009 5:36 pm 26
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It's pretty pathetic that, three years after they first broke the story of the Bush's illegal wiretap program, Eric Lichtblau and James Risen are still reporting on illegal warrantless wiretapping of Americans.

Their story has two main revelations. First, in preparation for Holder's first semi-annual certification of the FISA program to the FISC, NSA realized it was not complying with the law.

In recent weeks, the eavesdropping agency notified members of the congressional intelligence committees that it has encountered operational and legal problems in complying with the new wiretapping law, according to congressional officials .

Officials would not discuss details of the over-collection problem because it involves classified intelligence-gathering techniques. But the issue appears focused in part on technical problems in the N.S.A.’s inability at times to distinguish between communications inside the United States and those overseas as it uses its access to American telecommunications companies’ fiber-optic lines and its own spy satellites to intercept millions of calls and e-mails.

One official said that led the agency to inadvertently “target” groups of Americans and collect their domestic communications without proper court authority.

.......................................................

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/15/does-this-explain-doj-reluctance-to-turn-over-aig-monitoring-documents/

Does This Explain DOJ Reluctance to Turn Over AIG Monitoring Documents?
By: emptywheel Wednesday April 15, 2009 2:42 pm 17
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TPMM notes that DOJ has been reluctant to turn over to the Oversight Committee the documents pertaining to its Delayed Prosecution Agreement with AIG. Here are some data points that might begin to explain why DOJ would be reluctant to reveal what they knew about AIG and when they knew it.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. What's going on with the system? I can't rec this
Tried 3 times.

Kicking anyways.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Diebold has taken over.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Look at the GP, it appears that every time it is recommended
it gets posted on the GP again.



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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. that's true with other threads as well; they appear in multiple copies

on the GP; a new copy appears whenever someone tries to rec a thread.

Diebold or not, but some bizarre bug appears to have taken over the DU.

:shrug:

i reported the bug anyway, and suggest others do as well.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes, at first I thought it just moved the thread to the GP one time
then all the dupes starting showing up.

Glad a mod picked up on the problem.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. delete n/t
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 01:15 PM by slipslidingaway
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. Rec'd. Appears to be fixed now. n/t
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