Is the death penalty a deterrent to crime?

[Political Tiger]

Poll question: Is the death penalty a deterrent to crime?

[doctor jazz]

1. Not really a fair question because it's impossible to know the answer.

The word is 'deterrent', but anyway, it probably deters some (capital) crime and does not deter others.

[sam sarrha]

5. bunch of >links>> you will only find Wing Nut Politicians run'n for office support'n the claim it is

here is the data..

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates
Deterrence: States Without the Death Penalty Have Had Consistently Lower Murder Rates

here is a great big list...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ei=28_nSdi8D9irtgeriuDWBQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=death+penalty+not+a+deterrent+to+crime&spell=1

there is no scientific proof death is a penalty... dont flame a reply without the data..

a prisoner will just accept Jesus as the needle goes in and be in heaven before the body starts gett'n cold..

i clinically died and it was GREAT.!!!

[doctor jazz]

6. woooo

remind me to never smoke that stuff
\

[sam sarrha]

10. what are you referring to..??

[Boomerang Diddle]

24. Why is countries with no death penalty have much lower

crime rates than the US?

[Rhiannon12866]

49. And why is it that countries that have way more guns,

like Canada (Got that from "Bowling for Columbine" ;) ), have a much lower murder rate? :shrug:

[MajorChode]

65. Cuz it's too fucking cold to go outside and shoot somebody most of the time

[Rhiannon12866]

68. LOL. You may have it...

Actually, it's pretty cold where I am, too. I never realized that this might be a good thing. :-)

[MajorChode]

80. Canada has the land mass of the US and the population of Texas

Comparing it with the US on such things is pretty laughable to begin with.

[HelenWheels]

75. They have different type of gun

I believe Canada has more hunting guns than the US but fewer hand guns and assault weapons.

[MajorChode]

82. It's pretty funny that someone would use Canada as an argument against gun control

Most handguns in the US would be illegal in Canada. High capacity magazines are prohibited. Assault weapons are prohibited.

[sam sarrha]

86. they have a better education system.. on a Quantum level, 3rd world countries have better schools

than we do. our system is abysmal.. it produces damaged people .., our culture totally sucks, it is a paternal system based on prohibition and control..stupid shit

[quiller4]

99. It is a fair question and one thing that can be examined is

change in the rate of capital crimes for states--rates after re-instatement and rates after death penalty eliminated or effectively eliminated for a period of time.

[sam sarrha]

2. but it is a Blood Sacrifice for votes when Politicians promise to kill prisoners if elected

death has never been scientifically proved to be a Penalty..

[beyurslf]

3. It is a specific deterrent.

[sam sarrha]

7. No it stastically is not.... see post #5 links !Thirteen innocent people on IL Death Row!!

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june01/penalty_5-10.html
Thirteen innocent people on Death Row
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: The Republican governor, once a strong supporter of the death penalty, imposed the moratorium after the release of 13 wrongfully convicted men from Illinois' Death Row-- men like Gary Gauger, exonerated after the real killers of his parents were convicted, a crime that had originally sent him to Death Row.

[beyurslf]

87. Yes it is. A "specific deterrent" means that someone who gets that punishment will not committ

that offense again. Someone who is put to death will not commit another capital crime. It is the only absolute specific deterrent in existence.

[sam sarrha]

96. faulty logic, that isnt a deterrent to other people the subject in discussion.. not even cute

[beyurslf]

102. It is not faultty logic either.

Part of the discussion of deterrence in any criminal justice matter involved specific vs general deterrence. It is basic logic to determine what you are trying to achieve, and the dialogue regarding this begins in CJ 210 or thereabouts I would imagine.

[sam sarrha]

103. killing people s a crime, .. what part of "Life", Liberty and... dont you understand.??

life in prison could also be called a deterrent.. nut we are talking about the "bigger picture"

as i said , we are talk'n about death, your input was not even funny.. you will soon apply that as the "Final Solution" to everything.... like the Demionists.

[sam sarrha]

106. OK OK .... it's you that's faulty.. there is aways one in the crowd that doesnt get it,

[doc03]

4. Well at least one person is deterred. n/t

[doctor jazz]

8. Recividism among the executed tends to be quite low.

...
\

[sam sarrha]

11. link..>>

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june01/penalty_5-10.html
Thirteen innocent people on Death Row
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: The Republican governor, once a strong supporter of the death penalty, imposed the moratorium after the release of 13 wrongfully convicted men from Illinois' Death Row-- men like Gary Gauger, exonerated after the real killers of his parents were convicted, a crime that had originally sent him to Death Row

[TexasObserver]

18. Their it is! You're spelling of "Recidivism" is a tell.

Can you see the two incorrectly spelled words in my subject line? I'll give you a hint.

It's "their" and "you're."

Still confused? Look at the page. It says Democratic Underground.

[doctor jazz]

19. I have no idea what you are smoking

but I sure as fuck don't want any.

[TexasObserver]

21. You have no idea, period.

[LanternWaste]

92. Maybe it would help...

"but I sure as fuck don't want any."

Maybe it would help your spelling? :P

I kid, I kid-- you spell no worse than any other person who wants to be doctor or a jazz musician when they grow up... :)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

76. LOL

At least they're not slamming gays while claiming to be gay this time.

[LanternWaste]

90. Regardless of their guilt or innocence.

"Recividism (sic) among the executed tends to be quite low."

Regardless of their guilt or innocence. :shrug:

[madeline_con]

98. It hovers at about zero, right?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. See #78. -nt

[stillcool]

9. no..the deterrent to crime..

is a healthier society. We will only get sicker. People have too much fun hating others.

[csziggy]

15. And a sign of how sick our society is - that an a*hole that would mock a condemned woman

was close enough in an election to claim the Presidency. AS sick as Bush's actions were, they were not revolting enough that the electorate turned on him en masse. In a sane and healthy society he should never have gotten a single vote.

[Political Tiger]

12. Countries the permit the death penalty

Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Botswana
Burundi
Cameroon
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Comoros
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Ghana
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Libya
Malawi
Malaysia
Mongolia
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestinian Authority
Qatar
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Saudi Arabia
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Somalia
Sudan
Swaziland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

[TexasObserver]

13. No, it is not a deterrent to crime. The highest murder rates are in death penalty states.

[sam sarrha]

14. criminals kill witnesses in DP states to avoid the DP..

[NoGOPZone]

73. So they avoid the death penalty by committing a capital offense? nt

[sam sarrha]

85. yes that is what i said... they find dead victims and dead witnesses or people thought to have been

witnesses, ..that is why the murder rate is higher in DP states...

they kill anybody thought to have a witness to avoid the death penalty.

[LanternWaste]

93. Is this conjecture on your part...?

Is this conjecture on your part or can you link us to independently, peer-reviewed data and its analysis to reinforce your premise?

ed: sp

[sam sarrha]

95. piss off.... chronically cynical, why bother.. go play head games somewhere else

[doc03]

22. Aren't the highest murder rates also in the

states with the strictest gun laws?

[TexasObserver]

23. No. Do you really think death penalty states have the strictest gun control laws?

[doc03]

28. No I don't believe the death penalty states

have the highest murder rates, I would say the reverse. I would say the states with no death penalty have the highest murder rates and the strictest gun laws.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. Take the gun control factor out. Death penalty states have higher murder rates, in general.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-1996-2007

The last chart on that page, with states listed by highest murder rate to lowest, shows the data most clearly.

[doc03]

45. How do you explain New Hampshire with the lowest?

There are several other states with a low murder rate that also have the death penalty. You could also interpret the chart the opposite way, maybe many states with low murder rates never saw it necessary to have a death penalty. There are also many states with the death penalty that haven't used it for years.

[Warren Stupidity]

70. New Hampshire hasn't executed anyone in like 60 years.

But keep telling yourself that it is a deterrent when obviously it isn't. You are picking one data point to avoid accepting the obvious.

[doc03]

54. How do you explain New Hampshire with the

lowest? There are also many others that have a very low murder rate and have a death penalty. The chart could also be interpreted the opposite, maybe states with low murder rates never saw it necessary to have a death penalty. There are also some states that apparently do have the death penalty on the books according to the chart below they just haven't executed anyone for years.

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/dpusa.htm

[TexasObserver]

69. Your "belief" or not is immaterial. It's a fact.

The more a state invokes the death penalty, the more murders it is likely to have. There is a positive correlation between invoking the death penalty and having murders in a state. If you don't know this, you should stop typing and take the time to cure your ignorance.

[pscot]

16. Picking pockets used to be a capital crime

in England. Pickpockets found public executions extremely profitable events, because the attention of the crowd was tightly focused on the show.

[Mike 03]

17. No, I don't think so. If it is, it might be in 5% of cases. NT

[Uncle Joe]

20. It is a deterrent to the state not becoming a murderer, because at some point innocent people

will be executed.

At those times the state will become guilty of involuntary mans slaughter at best and at worst cold blooded premeditated murder.

[quaker bill]

25. No

because people who are intending to kill others rarely consider the consequences, and the few that do seem to believe they will not be caught.

People who are prone to consider the potential consequences of their actions carefully and seriously, do not engage in such murderous actions. But then such folks are also likely to have good impulse control and are therefore unlikely to arrive at a place in life that would take them even near such a circumstance.

Society cannot punish its way out of the poor mental health of some of its citizens. Things just don't work like that.

[Shell Beau]

89. My sentiments exactly, but you said it better than I did!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. It certainly deters whoever is executed.

[Warren Stupidity]

27. Yes but what if it creates on average 1.1 new criminals?

The 'it deters whomever is executed' is one of those trite responses that on examination is painfully stupid.

Suppose an innocent is executed. In what sense has this individual been deterred from anything other than another breath?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

48. Do you have a study that says that?

[Political Tiger]

30. That doesn't make sense.

If they are being executed, isn't it painfully obvious that the threat of execution didn't deter them from committing the crime for which they are being executed?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. Let me break it down for you, when they are dead they won't commit anymore crimes.

[Political Tiger]

37. Duh! But the death penalty didn't stop them

from committing the crime(s) in the first place, now did it?

I didn't ask 'does the death penalty kill people.' Obviously it does. But does the death penalty deter people from committing crimes? I'm talking about stopping the criminal before he commits the crime, not after.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. Really, your pulling my leg right?

Do I need the sarcasm tag?

David

[flvegan]

33. No it doesn't.

It eliminates them. Keeping them in prison forever deters them.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. They certainly won't do it again when they are dead.

[flvegan]

36. They wouldn't do it again were they in prison, either yes?

Thank you for proving my point.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. No not really, they can kill another prisoner or a guard.

[flvegan]

44. Reaching that far to justify a point is just sad.

If they're dead they could also not strap a kilo of C4 to themselves, board the space shuttle and blow up the space station.

:eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. So you don't value the lives of guards and other inmates as much as members of the public.

Got it.

David

[flvegan]

51. They why not just execute all inmates, Dave?

Any single one of them *could* do just that.

Strawman aside.

Pathetic.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

53. I never said we should execute any of them.

[flvegan]

56. The death penalty isn't execution?

Interesting stance.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

59. Don't know how you managed to come up with that? You may need some sleep.

[flvegan]

61. Let me quote you:

"It certainly deters whoever is executed."

"They certainly won't do it again when they are dead."

Maybe it's you that needs sleep.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. Is there something factually wrong with those statements?

[flvegan]

63. You're a total loss.

Look back at your posts, you'll see what I mean.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

64. You appear to be at a loss.

I believe the death penalty is a deterrent for only one person, that would be the person that is executed. They are dead and can no longer commit murder. I am not saying that the death penalty is right or wrong. It is not my decision. I hope it never is. My initial post was actually a little joke about the death penalty actually deterring a lot of crime. It clearly does not. Hope that clears it up. Have a good night.

David

[flvegan]

66. Again, your "deterrent" is a simple elimination.

According to the rest of the world, "deterrent" invokes choice, learned after the fact.

Execution doesn't.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

67. That was the intent of the statement, to demonstrate that it wasn't a societal deterrent.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

55. You do realize that inmates with life sentences with no possibility of parole...

are the biggest threat to guards and other inmates in prison. I'm not saying that we should execute anyone. Just because you don't like the point doesn't mean it isn't valid.

David

[flvegan]

57. Let me repeat myself

so the death penalty isn't an execution? Which, may I remind you, you appear to be firmly behind.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

60. I never said I was behind the death penalty or it's other name execution.

[Political Tiger]

39. What stops them BEFORE they are dead?

You can put people in jail for life, with no parole, and that will stop them from doing it again, but the the question is does the death penalty deter people from committing crimes in the first place?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. They are still a threat to other inmates or guards.

[Political Tiger]

50. So better to kill them on the off chance they might harm an inmate or guard? n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. Never said that. Only that they wouldn't be a threat if they were dead.

Are you not getting the fact that I don't think it's a deterrent to anyone except the dead guy? That argument is among the weakest in support of the death penalty.


David

[Political Tiger]

58. Okay. n/t

[Telly Savalas]

38. And since roughly 99% of people who were executed committed crimes in the past

there is a good possibility that they'd commit more crimes in the future.

The other 1% who were executed in error...well I guess you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette, eh?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. I haven't taken a position either way.

I made a statement of fact and it seems I should have added a tag so people would take it a lot less seriously.

David

[sam sarrha]

107. i have proof you are irrefutably wrong... >LINK>> Thirteen innocent people on IL Death Row!!

this is pretty average, the system is flawed, its much worse in TEXAS.. judges know they'll lose their jobs if they even allow an appeal.

if you dissagree... please post a link that a politician didnt pull out his ass to get elected

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june01/penalty_5...
Thirteen innocent people on Death Row
ELIZABETH BRACKETT: The Republican governor, once a strong supporter of the death penalty, imposed the moratorium after the release of 13 wrongfully convicted men from Illinois' Death Row-- men like Gary Gauger, exonerated after the real killers of his parents were convicted, a crime that had originally sent him to Death Row.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

78. You fail to understand what "deterrence" is.

Or maybe you DO know what it means but stick to that particular bit of twisted logic anyway because it sounds good. I don't know.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

84. You seem to be the only one who actually got it.

[LanternWaste]

94. regardless of whether they were guilty or innocent.

It certainly deters whoever is executed... regardless of whether they were guilty or innocent.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

101. Absolutely.

[mudesi]

105. Um, No It Doesn't. He Already Killed Someone

For fucks sake.

Did the DP deter him from committing the crime that put him on death row in the first place?

[flvegan]

32. Fear of revenge is rarely a deterrent.

Fear of punishment is. The death penalty is the former.

If fear of revenge was a deterrent, the only crime that happened would be gang/mafia crap. Very few citizens seek what would be considered a revenge that truly hurt a crim.

[ColbertWatcher]

34. Nope. It has never has been. n/t

[RB TexLa]

42. It's a punishment for committing a crime

[HelenWheels]

71. spending the rest of your life in prison is worse

and it's cheaper. The death penalty doesn't deter anyone because people that commit crimes don't think they're going to get caught. Add to that many murders are done in the heat of the moment with the killer not thinking about consequences.

[Odin2005]

72. You can't rape and murder another person again when you are dead. n/t.

[RedCappedBandit]

100. Already did, hence, no deterrent

[varkam]

74. Seeing as how the states with the highest rates of execution have the highest rates of homicide...

I'm gonna have to go with no.

[JitterbugPerfume]

77. barbaric

the death penalty is barbaric

[Bluerthanblue]

81. hardly- if you're gonna die for doing wrong, might as well

do as much wrong as you can before they kill you- cause what have you got to lose then?

(if that makes sense)
?

And it reinforces the notion that Killing is acceptable- what's worse, intentional, premeditated killing is not only ...legal... it is somehow, righteous.

And I don't believe that.

[MajorChode]

83. The death penalty doesn't serve the interests of anyone

...unless your interest is simply morbid revenge.

It costs far more to put someone to death than it does to imprison them for life. So it doesn't serve the interest of the taxpayer.

There is no "deterrence" effect. Anyone who believes otherwise is simply ignorant to the exhaustive studies on the subject. So it doesn't serve the interests of the public.

It doesn't even serve the interests of the victims. Death penalty appeals routinely go on for years which cause victims to have to relive the crime over and over with no closure for decades sometimes. Not so if you lock the guy up and throw away the key.

If someone thinks spending the rest of your life rotting away in a human cesspool is a cake walk compared to a relatively quick and painless end, they have no concept of what prison is actually like.

[Shell Beau]

88. I don't think a person who is willing to commit murder necessarily

thinks things through enough to consider the death penalty. I think a lot assume they won't get caught.

I think the death penalty becomes more of a revenge thing than anything else.

[upi402]

91. NO, obviously. k/r n/t

[JVS]

97. To the same degree that long prison sentences are.

[mudesi]

104. Anyone Who Says Yes Is Woefully Ignorant