The torturers had the option to say no, they are fucking guilty of war crimes

[seemslikeadream]

and those war crimes were done in my name. Each and every one of these criminals must be held accountable for their actions. Just following orders excuse did not cut it in Germany and it should not cut it in the United States of America. I am so pissed about this, torture was done in my name, in your name, how do you feel about this? What the hell has happened to this country?

[Boomerang Diddle]

1. Drama!

:nuke:

[seemslikeadream]

2. We are all torturers now, how does that make you feel?

[Boomerang Diddle]

5. Since we're all killers because of Iraq I guess I'll have to live with it.

Drama! More drama!

[seemslikeadream]

9. You can live with it if you want it is not an option for me

[Hubert Flottz]

3. The "Just following orders" defense didn't work for the Nazis

And it shouldn't work for anyone who commits war crimes, anywhere, anytime.

[lazer47]

8. It didn't work for Lt. William J. Calley either..

[customerserviceguy]

17. Interesting that you mention his case

No one any higher than Calley got convicted of anything. And the outcry over his life imprisonment sentence was deafening, 79% of the American people felt the conviction was wrong. Even Jimmy Carter as Georgia governor publicly opposed it.

Perhaps this is what President Obama is trying to avoid, a conviction of low-level scapegoats that can be politically motivated by the right wing. Calley killed people in a war of choice in a land that had never bothered Americans, many of our fellow citizens were gung-ho for a bit of waterboarding after 9-11. Many still are, and they are waiting to exploit any Calleys that they see the Obama Adminstration creating.

[sharp_stick]

12. Of course the following orders excuse

worked for the Nazis. For the love of all that's fucking holy how many people do you think we hanged over there? The prisons were not filled with Privates, Corporals and Sergeants who actually did the guarding of the camps, damned near all of them were "denazified" and released. Unless you held a officers rank, and a real one not the equivalent of some butter-bar you weren't even looked at twice by the allies.

[spartan61]

4. I'm just sick about this. It's even worse than I could imagine.

As much as I love our president, I am so disappointed that he is giving the torturers a pass. Does this mean that our country is looking the other way to these criminals, including bush and cheney? I so hope that Obama has something up his sleeve that will bring these people to justice. Why should we wait for another country to do our dirty work for us?

[seemslikeadream]

7. I am also sick, sick to the point of throwing up

Don't people understand? I just can't figure it out

[bdamomma]

6. ok guys let's get busy.

ACLU HAS SOMETHING UP

http://www.aclu.org/

[seemslikeadream]

10. Thank you bdamomma

[Generator]

11. It's so damn sad

I feel like we lost our souls on September 11, 2001 and they aren't coming back. We aren't going to admit we lied, WE DO TORTURE and we are like a third world hell hole. At leas to those we tortured. And we are just another terrorist attack away from more-after Obama is out. The next president could make Bush look like Bambi.

Without something that says-hey this is wrong, and we won't do it again under these "special circumstances"-the next time it will be a pass too.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. Wow, I can't even fathom how stupid that is.

[anonymous171]

15. Because attacking the troops did wonders for left in the 60s.

:sarcasm:

[TahitiNut]

18. Are you willing to place your own life on the line to obtain a verdict that it was and is illegal??

Until and unless there are people sufficiently committed to obtaining such a verdict -- in ANY legitimate court of law -- such proclamations are sheer hypocrisy. Without that ... and without achieving such a verdict ... there is absolutely no legitimate basis for such hyperbole. None.

[Celebration]

16. You are right but I can't deal with it

And that is the truth!

[Solly Mack]

19. Wanna know the end game?

I posted this the other week in another thread - and I've posted the same thing before, more or less, over the years.


Someone in Congress will proclaim, "We'll make new laws" ...and then some will cheer, "See! They're doing something about it!" - conveniently overlooking the fact that it was never - ever - about a lack of laws in place - but the lack of enforcing those laws and holding people accountable when they broke those laws.

Someone in D.C. will thunderously roar, "Never again!" and you'll hear the crowd cheer....all the while the guilty go about their lives, comfortable in the knowledge that they got away with it. And the only lesson learned benefits the future wanna-be tyrants, who know exactly what the American people will allow and turn a blind eye to...they know exactly what they can get away with...and next time - and there will be a next time - it will be worse. And why not? - with absolutely no accountability for their crimes.

As more and more time passes only those who truly desire justice will still be demanding it - and more and more voices will raise themselves against accountability because - and we've all heard these excuses before ..."That's the past", "We can't change the past", "We can't right all the wrongs of the past" - and isn't it ever so convenient to wait and wait until so much time passes that people feel ever so comfortable saying those things?....always overlooking the fact that nothing was ever done about those abuses and those crimes when they first took place.

And all the while, America will portray itself as a beacon of light, the champion of human rights, and the defender of freedom.


but I could be wrong.

[Kaleva]

20. It didn't work in Germany but it did in Finland

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5474431