Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the torture memos that were released was the minor stuff

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001218842

Judge Orders Release of Abu Ghraib Photos

By Greg Mitchell

Published: September 29, 2005 12:45 PM ET

NEW YORK A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America's image. Last year a Republican senator conceded that they contained scenes of "rape and murder" and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said they included acts that were "blatantly sadistic." snip

The ACLU has sought the release of 87 photographs and four videotapes taken at the prison as part of an October 2003 lawsuit demanding information on the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody and the transfer of prisoners to countries known to use torture. snip

What is shown on the photographs and videos from Abu Ghraib prison that the Pentagon has blocked from release? One clue: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Congress last year, after viewing a large cache of unreleased images, "I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe." They show acts "that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," he added.

A Republican Senator suggested the same day they contained scenes of "rape and murder." Rumsfeld then commented, "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse." snip

In the same period, reporter Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the scandal, said in a speech before an ACLU convention: "Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok? Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men ... . The women were passing messages saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened.'

"Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out."


"'The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,' Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. 'We're talking about rape and murder -- and some very serious charges.'

[Solly Mack]

1. Exactly. Everything hasn't been released

about Abu Ghraib.

[seemslikeadream]

2. rape and murder here...... and we are just to move forward

fuck

[Bluebear]

4. It's time to put that all behind us now.

As if it never happened. What a disgrace.

[global1]

14. What About Those That Were Tortured?.........

Do you think that they can put this all behind them now? As if it never happened?

They are scarred for life.

I only hope that those that formulated the torture, those that ordered it and those that administered it are scarred for life as well. I hope that they can't sleep at night. I hope they have nightmares?

They really need to be held accountable. It's too good for them even to be scarred for life. They need to be outed and they need to be disgraced. They need to be made an example of.

This is the only way that America can regain it's moral high ground in the world. Otherwise we're no better than ..... well you fill in the blanks.

[Hubert Flottz]

17. I'll bet Hitler would have jumped on a deal like that ASAP...

So would all the other Nazis that were hanged.

[Qutzupalotl]

20. Actually, no.

The rapists had no legal cover, so they are open to prosecution, according to Obama.

[rcrush]

3. Waterboarding was the nicest thing they did to the prisoners.

Children and women raped. Some men murdered. Most were just beaten constantly.

[Barack_America]

5. These are things that I don't want to see and know about...

But things that I must see and know about all the same.

Pretending it didn't happen solves nothing. Our nation did this and know we must acknowledge it and face the consequences.

[flyarm]

24. iT WAS DONE IN YOUR NAME AND MY NAME ..EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT..

and people will pay in many ways for these crimes ..if we don't hold those who perpetrated these crimes accountable on our own terms...in our own courts..by the criminals own peers..

these American criminals will get more justice than those who have been tortured...that is for sure!

[chill_wind]

6. But they

were just following orders and the AG/DOJ said it was OK.

:puke:

[ProSense]

7. No it wasn't minor. Graphic photos are not absolute proof that specific Bush officials were involved

Today, Obama released proof that war crimes were committed. Real proof with their stamps of approval on them.

Proof for the world to see.

Obama Promises to Defend Interrogators, But No Promise on the Bush Lawyers Who Signed Off

[Jamastiene]

8. The best thing America can do is take responsibility

for it, never let anyone forget it, and most importantly, never let it happen again. What happened at Abu Ghraib should be held up as an example of how NOT to treat human beings under any circumstances.

America should take the lead to right the wrongs there. It's the only way we'll ever be able to atone for what our government was responsible for.

Taking responsibility is the only way we'll ever be able to regain our credibility in the world when it comes to human dignity, justice, and and anything else we stood for before Bush and his administation threw the rules away and behaved like tyrannical despots.

Impeachment would be too lenient. We should aim to put Bush and his cronies in prison for authorizing such atrocities toward other human beings.

[rateyes]

9. Sweeping this under the rug is unconscionable.

It should come out, and come out now, and all responsible prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. We prosecuted Nazis who were "just following orders." No one should be immune. NO ONE.

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. So Sen. Lindsey Graham knew about it, last year.

Rumsfield knew about it and testified about it.

But our NOW government is not going to do anything to the people who did it,
or the people who ordered it,sanctioned it, covered it up.
KO was so on target inhis Special Comment tonight.

I am sick over this. Apparently cards and letters do nothing to influence the WH now, either.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Not last year. This was published September 29, 2005

[G_j]

12. a number of Congress folks saw those photos and videos

Where are they now? What are they saying? Is anyone asking them?

[valerief]

13. Absolutely. Of course, I wonder, how is rape and murder different from pre-emptive war? nt

[omega minimo]

16. I wonder now is rape and murder different from "some very serious charges."

:wow:

[lonestarnot]

15. Been waiting for the release of these for years now. Is this just another thing to provide immunity

for and precendent for future acts?

[fasttense]

18. We have to look forward

Look forward to a very good president turning his back on horrendous crimes.

Look forward to other Republicon Presidents torturing Prisoners of War or maybe American citizens.

Look forward to the monsters who got a taste for torture under the bush and dick finding other victims.

[KharmaTrain]

19. Obama's Attempt To Walk The Middle Of The Road

...and as the old political axiom goes...those who do are just asking to get run over.

The way he's handled this isn't making this issue go away, it's going to intensify those who want more disclosure. The immunity of those "following orders" to placate the CIA, DOD, Blue Dogs and "moderate" rushpublicans is a "compromise" that doesn't help people move along, but just papers over crimes that will fester for years to come.

I've long felt there are a copy of those Abu Grahb photos sitting in someone's desk that are just waiting for the proper time to use as political blackmail. President Obama's attempts to try to "move along" on this issue ties him to the cover up and denial of accountability...and it could hurt him politically...especially if someohe releases those photos a couple years down the road and he, not boooshie, is forced to justify them during an election.

[earth mom]

25. Sad that Obama may eventually be motivated by political blackmail to do something about this instead

of simply doing the right thing because torture is wrong and those who did it AND who authorized it should be punished.

Does anyone in Washington DC give a fuck anymore about anyone or anything?! :argh:

[glinda]

21. Info was put out so people can digest it. I think everyone should calm down because

things are being done carefully for many reasons. I totally believe that there will be an end result of many bits of info coming together in a legally cautious way as well as in a manner to not inflame the red neck part of our country and other Nations. It will be bad but I think things are being done in a calculated way.

[nichomachus]

22. America's image? What image?

Most of the world knows what we are. It's only the Teabaggers, Faux News junkies, Rushbots, and Sarah Palin fans who think "we're number one."

[flyarm]

23. Make sure you look at the picture here..and remember..

we are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law..these people were not given those rights..they were given no rights until they were murdered by torture!..in your name..and my name!

so for all those that agree that we must move forward without holding our own criminals accountable..i say to you..it could be you next..because we no longer have habeas corpus..and you could get snagged like other Americans have because of a simple mistake..and you too could have this done to you! Or a member of your family..or maybe even your kid or grandkid. Think about that seriously.

These from my files..I won't forget ..and i want the people responsible from the top to the bottom to be held accountable!..And unlike the people they did this to and tortured..I want to see them in a court of law and judged by their peers!

WE ARE EITHER A NATION PREDICATED ON THE RULE OF LAW..OR WE ARE NOT..WE CAN NOT ACCEPT TORTURE IN OUR NAME AND ALLOW THOSE WHO PERPETRATED THOSE CRIMES TO WALK FREE WITH NO ACCOUNTABILITY AND BE A NATION OF LAWS!

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

FROM MY FILES..

MAKE SURE YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES HERE..AND THEN TELL ME HOW MUCH BETTER WE ARE?????????

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6988054/

Reports detail Abu Ghraib prison death; was it torture?
By Seth Hettena

updated 4:57 p.m. ET, Thurs., Feb. 17, 2005
Iraqi had been suspended by his handcuffed wrists, guards tell investigators
SAN DIEGO - An Iraqi whose corpse was photographed with grinning U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib died under CIA interrogation while in a position condemned by human rights groups as torture — suspended by his wrists, with his hands cuffed behind his back, according to reports reviewed by The Associated Press.

The death of the prisoner, Manadel al-Jamadi, became known last year when the Abu Ghraib scandal broke. The U.S. military said back then that it had been ruled a homicide. But the exact circumstances of the death were not disclosed at the time.

The prisoner died in a position known as “Palestinian hanging,” the documents reviewed by The AP show. It is unclear whether that position was approved by the Bush administration for use in CIA interrogations.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
America admits suspects died in interrogations

By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles


Friday, 7 March 2003

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/america-admits-suspects-died-in-interrogations-599744.html


American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.


American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was "homicide", contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism.

The men's death certificates, made public earlier this week, showed that one captive, known only as Dilawar, 22, from the Khost region, died from "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease" while another captive, Mullah Habibullah, 30, suffered from blood clot in the lung that was exacerbated by a "blunt force injury".

US officials previously admitted using "stress and duress" on prisoners including sleep deprivation, denial of medication for battle injuries, forcing them to stand or kneel for hours on end with hoods on, subjecting them to loud noises and sudden flashes of light and engaging in culturally humiliating practices such as having them kicked by female officers.

While the US claims this still constitutes "humane" treatment, human rights groups including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced it as torture as defined by international treaty. The US has also come under heavy criticism for its reported policy of handing suspects over to countries such as Jordan, Egypt or Morocco, where torture techniques are an established part of the security apparatus. Legally, Human Rights Watch says, there is no distinction between using torture directly and subcontracting it out.

[dysfunctional press]

26. seeing as they were ordered to be released- why haven't they been?

and who do we see about that...? :grr:

[undergroundpanther]

28. They won't release it

because it's true, and if people saw firsthand how evil some people really ARE in this psychopath infested government,

A lot of the people would be outraged and even worse many people might decide they no longer NEED this system these 'leaders' force us to accept as normal .We just might destroy the torturers we are desensitized to tolerate,pretending as if raping kids is just 'collateral damage.It cannot be ignored if the images and the screaming of the kids being raped are heard by the public,Shock and disgust,outrage and the calls for heads to roll would be the last thing these entrenched psychopath pieces of shit want us to see..They know the gig would be up,many would demand total transparency and many a politician will water the tree of liberty,and the outraged would call for dismantling the cia,nsa,cut the military budget,supervise what they do,never trust'leaders' again, tear down the gated shelters of the rich,and destroy them all if they try to scuttle into a hidey hole .There is a chance we would ourselves force the bullies,torturers, psychopaths and evil people and those organizations that serve evil ends out of power.

[dysfunctional press]

29. those are the same reasons that it NEEDS to be released.

my question is this- if it's been ordered released- someone is holding it back under someone else's orders...in violation of the ruling, i.e. LAW.

there needs to be a MUCH STRONGER call for the truth to come out- although i don't have too much hope that we'll actually get any 'change we can believe in' as far as this matter is concerned either...add it to the (growing longer) list.

[undergroundpanther]

27. All those evil monsters,involved in torture,from doing it to rationalizing

excusing rape and everything else done by government agencies or corporate'contractors',ALL OF THE CRIMES these evil people did need to be dragged out into the light of day, All the perpetrators from bottom to top of whatever twisted hierarchy,all must be put on trial,and forced to stand before the world, face what they have done,and than be destroyed.

I think death is appropriate for those who torture, rape,and commit war crimes.Because once tortured your life is never the same,the scars of the body is one thing,but the scars on the emotions and the very spirit of the person those wounds kill a person slowly from the inside with flashbacks,brain scars,triggers, nightmares,memories recurring until you are broken and desolate inside and can't trust anyone anymore.There is no cure for PSTD.

[wiggs]

30. Yes, thank you NNN for not letting everything disappear down the memory hole and

not letting the discussion get narrowed to waterboarding a two or three guys.