We are a nation that idolizes fictional characters like Jack Bauer

[Hugabear]

Is it any wonder that so many Americans have a cavalier attitude towards torture? Especially if it's presented with the excuse "we're trying to save American lives"?

[Idealism]

1. Millions more Americans watch "Survivor" than watch the nightly news.

[valerief]

4. That's because the nightly news filters out useful news. nt

[Idealism]

6. Media of all types that disseminate the news have lost their readership numbers

and across the board, American Idol, etc. have the same amount of followers they have always had...

[valerief]

2. I never understood the appeal of that show. I've never seen it.

The promos were enough to turn me off.

I'm sure there are a lot of people like me in America.

[walldude]

3. Yeah it's nuts... Some of those torture memos

read like some freaky James Bond movie. Insect Torture? What's next a laser to the groin?

[arcadian]

5. I'm a Golden Girls man myself.

[valerief]

10. Oh, I love The Golden Girls as much as I Love Lucy. I could watch

both series for hours on end.

[Coffee and Cake]

7. And Marilyn Manson caused Columbine

[Hugabear]

8. I see your logic train never made it to the station

I never said anything about causality. But nice strawman attempt.

I meant that as a society, the American public has been conditioned to accept that torture is okay if it's used for "good". And Jack Bauer is the poster boy for the modern torture loving club.

[Coffee and Cake]

11. My logic is fine. I have seen 24 and do not condone torture.

But your attempt to link America's acceptance of torture to the show 24 is full of fail.

I thought you were originally being facetious, but unfortunately I was wrong.

[The Traveler]

9. Bauer is a mythical figure

Morally ambiguous. Laboring under several curses. Striving to oppose genuine evil, driven to extreme actions by the outlandish situations that insist upon unfolding around him. And he is insanely competent. Sometimes, these villains wave the flag in our faces while plotting to slay our neighbors. I found this season's exploration of the matter of large mercenary companies interesting, for example.

Good fiction has always employed hyperbole or exaggeration to explore the questions confronted by the times in which we find ourselves. Good, provocative fiction always leaves you feeling a little disturbed. I like 24 because it is well done and because it causes people to discuss these questions and explore these issues.

Hmmm ... ever read Joseph Campbell? Campbell would tell you that Jack as a mythic figure tells us something about ourselves ... and some of that telling is damned unsavory. But some of it is magnificent.

Trav

[aquart]

12. I stopped watching Lost because of the torture. Never touched 24.

I remain unadoring of torture and torturers.