CIA tortured before "legal" memos. Admin's defense shattered.

[Metta]

Read all about it. http://www.truthout.org/041409R

[williesgirl]

1. Those memos were a cover for what had been happening all along. Those CIA officers should be tried

NOW. This is bullshit. Obama swore to uphold the Constitution in January, not to protect previous criminals. We must not shut up, we need to be louder and more frequent in our efforts to get a Special Prosecutor. rec'd

[Supersedeas]

5. I think the Military Commissions Act grants immunity the beginning of 2002

[chill_wind]

11. 1997 for certain violations :-( ... But no immunity for "grave breaches"-- ie torture

Per this:

(...)

Notably, the legislation narrows the scope of the War Crimes Act, decriminalizing certain past acts. Previously, the War Crimes Act criminalized all violations of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, as well as grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions. Anyone responsible for any Common Article 3 violation, including the cruel, humiliating or degrading treatment of detainees, could be prosecuted under the law.

The MCA revises this portion of the War Crimes Act, replacing the blanket criminalization of Common Article 3 violations with a list of "grave breaches" of Common Article 3, which are specified and defined in the legislation. And the law is amended retroactively to November 26, 1997, meaning that perpetrators of several categories of what were war crimes at the time they were committed, can no longer be punished under U.S. law.

Now, under the MCA, torture and cruel and inhuman treatment qualify as "grave breaches," but degrading or humiliating treatment does not. The MCA also eliminates as a war crime the passing of sentences by a court that does not meet international fair trial standards.

A twist in the new legislation is that it includes two separate definitions of cruel and inhuman treatment, one that applies to abuses that occurred prior to the MCA's passage, and another that applies to future conduct. If committed after the passage of the MCA, cruel and inhuman treatment only requires a finding of serious and non-fleeting mental pain or suffering. But for abuses committed prior to the law's passage, the perpetrator can only be penalized if the pain or suffering is "prolonged."

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/mariner/20061025.html


more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act_of_2006#cite_note-31

[Supersedeas]

15. I was referring specifically to the timeframe of Section 8 (b)(3) of the MCA of 2006

See:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:3:./temp/~c109O1UzrF:e118458:

It covers actions between Sept 11, 2001 and December 2005.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. I can't go to Truthout

Ever since that "Rove to be arrested right fucking now" bullshit they gave us.

I'll wait for another source. Although, if this is what I suspect, I've already read it elsewhere.

[LSK]

3. give it a rest already

I'm sure you still go to the NY Times even thou they had that Judy Miller writing about Saddams WMD stockpiles.

:eyes:

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Rest this .....

:eyes:

Truthout had one liar out of what? A staff of three writers?

The NYT had Miller and a load of others.

But to your point .... Actually, I don't go the NYT. For similar reasons, actually.

We canceled our WaPo delivery years ago ..... for similar reasons.

Don't tell me what to do. Just worry about yourownself

[dorkulon]

17. Would you believe a story by Judy Miller?

This story is by the same effing guy as the bogus Rove story.

[EFerrari]

6. The memos were written in AUGUST 2002. The torture started in APRIL.

Problem solved.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. As I said .... I kinda knew what that story was. I had, indeed, read it elsewhere already

[EFerrari]

10. Sorry, I missed that!

[Supersedeas]

16. but checkout the immunity 'timeframe' of the MCA of 2006 (passed just before mid-term elections)

Immunity timeframe extends from Sept 11, 2001 to December 2005

Became Public Law 109-366 on October 17, 2006

[Supersedeas]

18. Try this link:

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/PL-109-366.pdf

Section 8 (B)(3)


It is very clear that the Bush Administration clearly and specifically anticipated prosecutions for War Crimes under 18 USC 2441(c)(3) and expanded 42 USC 2000dd-1 to include immunity prior to the issuance of the legal memorandum.

[chill_wind]

4. DU thread (more)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5473057&mesg_id=5473057

[ProgressIn2008]

7. K&R. nt

[HamdenRice]

12. And according to Obama administration statement, they can be prosecuted

Obama's statement applied to those who relied in good faith on OLC opinions. If they tortured before the opinion was issued, they are not covered by Obama's statement.

[annabanana]

13. He pretty much said they CAN and SHOULD be prosecuted. . n/t

[deacon]

14. It certainly is. Shame to see Obama fall apart so fast. He had promise. No more.

He's no different than any of them, spineless.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

19. who? who? who?

Who appointed CIA Director Leon Panetta?
Who's going to be the next director, since this guy is playing for the wrong side in today's political arena?
Who were the five directors Bush fired before he found one that would be his puppet?