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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:23 AM
Original message
EU parliament wants to put the internet on a cable-type tier system
I know this is european so many people here may not know about it, but it is pure BS. Politicans should not be allowed to pass laws governing aspects of the world that they do not understand.

http://blackouteurope.eu/

I would hope that if this type of stupidity were introduced here it would immediately be quashed, but past US examples have left me with little hope of that.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Time-Warner just tried it. They've already shelved it because of backlash.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. yup, but the EU does not view the internet in the same way.
if rights in the EU fall, we could be next.

and damn, only one response?
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. GAH! Does no one care?
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I guess it's just you and me kid.
;-)

They'll care when they're paying out the ass for internet service. Oh well.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. the problem with it is
that you and I will be paying out our asses for internet too because a majority of the people were stupid enough to let this happen.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The problem is I can find no independent description of what is being proposed
That site doesn't actually point to what the EU parliament will discuss, as far as I can tell - it just asserts how bad and evil it will be. Sites that exist solely to tell us how awful a proposed rule will be aren't always reliable.

Ity doesn't help that they've now exceeded their bandwidth limit, just when I want to check back on what the site says.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Here is the text of all the amendments
Edited on Mon Apr-20-09 08:55 PM by hendo
http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Telecoms_Package_2nd_Reading_ITRE_IMCO_Draft_Amendments#Amendment_85_--_2

pretty much, what we want to have happen is for the EU to pass amendment 138. the passage of 138 is essential to the freedom of the internet.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Do you mean 'AM 138 of the 1st reading' in the Trautmann report, as in ...
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 04:38 AM by muriel_volestrangler
"Amendment 46 Article 1 – point 8 – point fb amending Directive 2002/21/EC Article 8 – paragraph 4 – point fb ... This amendment restores AM 138 adopted in 1st reading, which provides useful safeguards against other provisions laying grounds to "three-strikes approach" (graduated response). "

and inserts

(fb) applying the principle that no
restriction may be imposed on the
fundamental rights and freedoms of end-
users, without a prior ruling by the
judicial authorities, notably in accordance
with Article 11 of the Charter of
Fundamental Rights of the European
Union on freedom of expression and
information, save when public security is
threatened in which case the ruling may
be subsequent.


(or Amendment 135, described as "Restores Amendment 138 of first reading, repeats Trautmann's 46" - I can't tell why there's a second amendment repeating an earlier one)

as opposed to Amendment 138 in the Harbour report, described as (in conjunction with Amendment 136 and 137 - again, there seem to be 3 amendments saying the exact same thing):

"AT&T amendment. Who determines what is justified or not? For operators, discrimination could be justified by profit (ie. forbidding VoIP on a mobile operator internet access). This is open door for net discrimination."

and text:

In order to address unjustified degradation of
service and hindering or slowing of traffic over
networks, Member States shall ensure that national
regulatory authorities are able to set minimum
quality of service requirements on an undertaking
or undertakings providing public communications networks.


Your concern in reply #10, about the creation of tiered services, seems more related to this:

One of the key groups campaigning for continued open access to the internet is French campaigning group La Quadrature du Net. According to La Quadrature, amendments (pdf) have been circulated recently by the British Government that would have the dual effect of introducing conditions of access to the internet – the subscription TV approach – and secondly, overriding the end-to-end principle of the internet.

Instead of users having virtually free access to the entire net, internet providers would be allowed to limit the number of websites that users can access, in exchange for a lower fee.
...
The UK has put forward amended text for article 8(4)(g) of one of the key directives in the Telecoms Package - the Framework Directive. Previously, it set out the duties of national regulators as, inter alia, applying the principle that end-users should be able to access and distribute information or run applications and services of their choice.

However, if the amendment is accepted, the directive will instead state that “there should be transparency of conditions under which services are provided, including information on the conditions of access to and/or use of applications and services, and of any traffic management policies".

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/12/subscription_only_internet/


While I can see that the UK government amendment, described in The Register article from March (which points to another Quadrature page), would allow a tiered system, there appears to be no sign of it in the Quadrature wiki page you linked to (or in the EU PDFs that links to). The wording about "fundamental rights and freedoms of end-users", which would go in the same section (8.4.fb, rather than 8.4.g) doesn't seem, to me, to be about a tiered system; and the one about "unjustified degradation of service and hindering or slowing of traffic over networks" is opposed by Quadrature because they don't like the idea of unspecified 'justification'.

All in all, it's confusing, and I don't think you should be surprised that people aren't up in arms about the amendments, for or against.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. From their facebook details
News on the Telecoms Package is available here:
http://www.laquadrature.net/en

To read the Telecoms Package proposals, go here:
http://www.laquadrature.net/lawtracks/telecoms_package/

The Second Reading amendments which will be voted by the European Parliament on 31 March and again on 5th May, are here:
http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Telecoms_Package_2nd_Reading_ITRE_IMCO_Draft_Amendments#Amendment_85_--_2

An exhaustive, visually effective and easy to understand analysis of the amended Directives by Prof. Dr. Monica Horten is available here:
http://www.scambioetico.eu/telecoms.package.diagrams.m.horten.5.april.2009.zip

Or you can look at the European Parliament's own website, which is less easy to follow:

Framework, access and authorisation directive
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/FindByProcnum.do?lang=2&procnum=COD/2007/0247

Universal services and e-Privacy directive
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/FindByProcnum.do?lang=2&procnum=COD/2007/0248

An alternative proposal that we like is here:

http://www.npt.no/iKnowBase/Content/109604/Guidelines%20for%20network%20neutrality.pdf
as a fair and equitable basis for all internet communications.

For independent information try:

(In English) http://www.iptegrity.com
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. I would care
but the link does not seem to work; what is the proposal?
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. basically
in an attempt to curb copyright infringement, they want to create a system wherein european ISP subscribers will have to buy into a tiered system much like current cable tv systems. For one level of service you get basic access to basic websites, and then if you want to access more websites you have to pay more, much like someone would have to pay more to get HBO, or The History Channel.

It is a pay for service plan that threatens to destroy the very nature of free information over the internet. I am surprised that it is not getting any coverage in the US. Then again, big media controls the news here, so I suppose it isn't all that surprising. But why aren't the small, non-corporate media outlets talking about it? Maybe they are too pro-hollywood, anti-piracy to care?


And this is an issue that is all too often brought up as a piracy discussion. The people cannot be trusted with free and open access to the internet, and all that BS.

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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Horrible idea. I hope they fail.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Fortunately the French 3-strikes provision failed. NT
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Tubes. A series of tubes.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick
I cant believe how few people here care.
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