Obama to CIA: No Accountability for Torture

[radhika]

Just finished listening to his speech live. While he likely mollified the rank-and-file CIA folks, and did his warm and fuzzy thanks yous. I was appalled. First, he never used the word 'Torture'. Or 'Crimes'. His tone was simply that as long as HE was President they would not use THOSE TECHNIQUES. Why? Because they aren't our highest values. That clearly left it open to conclude that use of Torture was a mere judgment call. E.g: The previous President decided HE would use them - maybe the next President will revive these practices. But while I, Obama, am in the White House I'll leave these optional techniques on the shelf.

Never was torture mentioned as a crime under International Law, Geneva and other treaties. Never was it suggested that the USA as a signatory of those treaties obligated to prosecute crimes under those laws and treaties. As each day goes by I am horrified and stung by this Administration.

[Timefortruth]

1. That's the way I saw it too.

He even seemed to suggest it would be more difficult for them to do their jobs without torture.

[EFerrari]

2. He already called CIA torturers dedicated and courageous last week. n/t

[MarjorieG]

3. You want to blow up the agency? Do you consider any other policy initiative worth pursuing?

Do you honestly believe not following through on this gray area to prosecute those who will have legal defense following Justice's okay, just like other gray areas, we will fall of the sde of the earth?

[EFerrari]

5. What gray area? The UN, the ICRC and ACLU don't seem to believe

there is anything gray about it.

[Bluerthanblue]

11. maybe not 'grey' but there are many who understand it isn't the

simple task that many seem to think-

Like Human Rights Watch- as we discussed last night.

:shrug:

?

[EFerrari]

13. The UN rapporteur said the law is very clear.

What is not clear is the political cost which is a different problem.

[Bluerthanblue]

19. what isn't clear is how difficult it would be to make an

adequate case right now. And I'm not sure that it can so easily be called "political cost" but rather what it would do to the dangerous divide that exists in this country at this particular time. That shouldn't factor into seeking justice in the foreseeable future- but it is worth weighing into the decision as to when and how to go about prosecuting. Obama did say "this is not the time"- in the statement he put out about the torture memos.

[EFerrari]

20. Actually, the Spanish prosecutor (not the AG, who is a political appointee)

but the prosecutor put out a report that says it wouldn't be difficult at all.

And the law, that is, the UN Convention and Geneva say, iirc, that once a credible instance of torture is discovered, it needs to be investigated right away. So, while Obama is free to say that, it puts our government in violation of the law.

I think what we're seeing here is a division between political actors and non-political actors. Which is inevitable, I guess.

/oops

[Bluerthanblue]

21. oh boy...

... I'm having trouble wrapping my head around what you are saying again... and it IS me- I apoligize- I'm not trying to be dense.

Our government has been in violation of all kinds of laws since our illegal invasion of Iraq haven't we? I don't believe Gitmo, renditions, military tribunals and all kinds of things that we've been involved in are legal.

The Human Rights Watch spokesperson in the article I linked to yesterday seemed to support the view that Obama encouraging prosecution of those responsible would not be simple, nor would it be had anyone else been elected-

[EFerrari]

22. It could just as well be me. There's a big old heat wave here.

Maybe my brains are fried!

:)

I'll go back and read the HRW link again.

[lame54]

6. I've Always wanted the agency to Blow Up...

Nothing but paid assassins

They fund themselves by committing crimes all over the world

[EFerrari]

9. Most people seem to believe CIA is just another bunch of boy scouts

or some squeaky clean agency like the DMV. They seem to have no idea how hated CIA is all around the world for their horrible predations.

Last week when I pointed out they were torturers, someone asked me why I hated our "service people". Which is the inference that the administration wants drawn so that poster was just being a good media consumer, come to think of it.

[MarjorieG]

14. I believe every bad thing and movie plot, but do we want waste the Obama opportunity on it?

[EFerrari]

15. He has to manage both or isn't the "opporunity" a waste of time?

The upside, imo, is that if anyone can manage both, it's Obama. He's a very good multi-tasker.

[Bluerthanblue]

4. oh BULLSHIT!

show me where he said he will never hold those who committed crimes against humanity accountable-

DO IT- ! If you can, then I'll owe you a sincere apology, and if you can't you owe Obama one.

Unless you can back up your statements with actual words spoken by Obama then do the world a favor and stop spreading this destructive shit.

I'm so sick and tired of all the noble defenders of righteousness spouting off from their keyboards- to appear as the pinnicles of fair, just, model citizens of the world, when it costs them nothing other than the effort it takes to post to a message board-

:nuke:

[lame54]

8. he will never hold those who committed crimes against humanity accountable-

I didn't read that in the OP

[Bluerthanblue]

12. Ok- fair enough- that he will never hold anyone who performed

acts of torture, enabled, or ordered others to perform such acts accountable?-

?

[spanone]

7. i watched and didn't hear him say that.

[EFerrari]

10. If anyone finds a transcript, I"d like to read it over. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

16. I've never been comfortable with referring it to as "so-called" torture.

It was torture, plain and simple. Torture is against the law and backing off calling it that doesn't mitigate what happened.

I'm willing to hold my powder over the CIA operatives getting immunity for the trade-off of prosecuting those that created the policy and those that ordered its implementation.

President Obama has provided the ammunition. It is now up to Congress or the Department of Justice to prosecute. If they don't someone else in the world body will, justifiably.

[EFerrari]

17. You make a very good point about DoJ AND Congress.

Obama doesn't run our government all by himself.

[AtomicKitten]

18. somebody needs to call it what it is --- illegal

I'm getting damn sick and tired of the wingnuts running off their mouths saying it was necessary, that it produced results, and that Obama is weak for rejecting it as policy.

That shit needs to be squashed right quick and in a hurry. To let it stand is a horrible precedent.

[JuniperLea]

23. Amen!

I'd like to see the wingnuts produce one result produced from torture. They can't. That's where the conversation gets real Freepery.

[AtomicKitten]

26. It's all bullshit. Smoke and mirrors.

Whether it "worked" or not is irrelevant; the memos clearly suggest it didn't. Red herring, but nice try on the part of the wingnuts.

IT IS ILLEGAL AND PRESIDENT OBAMA CALLED IT ILLEGAL IN HIS STATEMENT TODAY AT THE CIA TODAY BEFORE CAMERAS!!!

He gave them the ammunition. He deemed it illegal. IMO it is incumbent upon upon Congress and/or the Department of Justice to prosecute. Rumor has it Holder is contemplating appointing a Special Prosecutor.

Go get 'em.

[JuniperLea]

24. That's what people forget...

He doesn't. But what he did by providing the evidence, is huge. Ha! I just had to correct myself... I said "hugh" initially... lol! DU/Freeper speak has a hold on me! Oh noes! Oh! No!

:rofl:

[Solly Mack]

25. Transcript

Panetta and Obama’s Speeches to C.I.A. Workers


As I made clear, in releasing the O.L.C. memos as a consequence of a court case that was pending and to which it was very difficult for us to mount an effective legal defense, I acted primarily because of the exceptional circumstances that surrounded these memos, particularly the fact that so much of the information was public — had been publicly acknowledged. The covert nature of the information had been compromised.

I have fought to protect the integrity of classified information in the past, and I will do so in the future. And there is nothing more important than protecting the identities of C.I.A. officers. So I need everybody to be clear: we will protect your identities and your security as you vigorously pursue your missions. I will be as vigorous in protecting you as you are vigorous in protecting the American people.

Now, I have put an end to the interrogation techniques described in those O.L.C. memos. And I want to -- I want to be very clear and very blunt. I’ve done so for a simple reason: because I believe that our nation is stronger and more secure when we deploy the full measure of both our power and the power of our values, including the rule of law. I know I can count on you to do exactly that.

Don’t be discouraged that we have to acknowledge potentially we’ve made some mistakes. That’s how we learn. But the fact that we are willing to acknowledge them and then move forward, that is precisely why I am proud to be president of the United States, and that’s why you should be proud to be members of the C.I.A.




CQ Transcript: President Obama Speaks to CIA Employees

[thedeanpeople]

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[leftstreet]

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[Orwellian_Ghost]

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