Two Miss California jokes (my own) and a Kimmel Video

[underpants]

Miss California has that title because all the other lemmings had jumped off the cliff *

She should have asked for a clarification, "Like ....such as the Iraq?"


2009 Miss Information Pageant (1:06)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1_nQDtq-94

* I am aware that lemmings don't actually jump off a cliff. It was all made up by two movie makers back in the 50's for a Disney production.

[screembloodymurder]

1. She had every right to give her opinion.

She was asked a question and answered it honestly.
(?)

[trumad]

2. OK---and we have every right to ridicule her er---"Opposite Marriage" stance.

[Stellabella]

3. Really. And would it have been okay for her to say that two people,

one white and one black, shouldn't marry because 'that's the way she was raised?' ???

[galaxy21]

5. I don't know. Would people have voted for a president that opposed interracial marriage?

Because everyone on here voted for a man that feels the exact same way this woman does.

She's a bimbo, but the double standard annoys me.

[Pool Hall Ace]

8. What exactly did President Obama say regarding same-sex marriage?

Perhaps he opposes it personally because he is a Christian, but would he block the will of the people?

I trust President Obama more than I trust Miss Ditzy-brain.

[galaxy21]

9. Barack said the exact same thing she did- he thinks marriage is a man and a woman

Is he trying to get it banned everywhere? No. Is she? Not to the best of my knowledge. She might not want to block the will of people either. I don't know. Someone ask her.

Either way criticising her for her opinion and giving Obama a free pass for his is pretty damn hypocritical. She's a beauty queen. Who cares what she says? How is her opinion suddenly more worthy of criticism than a president's?

[Pool Hall Ace]

10. Then beauty queens shouldn't be asked such loaded questions.

If the same words had come out of the mouth of a beer-bellied, middle-aged white guy, everyone would be calling him a bigot. It seems some are defending her for no other reason than because she is a skinny blonde with Pepsodent-white teeth. I wouldn't want either one of those people representing my country in any capacity.

Hopefully, this woman will be forgotten about within a few days, like that Joshua-Benjamin-Christopher whatever-his-name-was kid who was supposed to be The Next Big Thing for the GOP.

[galaxy21]

11. " seems some are defending her for no other reason than because she is a skinny blonde"

No-one is defending her. People are just pointing out the double standards. There are also people that feel that even though they disagree with her, Perez behaved like an ass, and shouldn't have asked for her honest opinion if he only wanted one answer.


This isn't about gay marriage, really. It's about tolerance, not only for those who agree, but for those who disagree, and the double standards regarding Obama and this woman.

If saying "Obama feels the same way she does and you're not saying this about him' is seen as defending her, then so be it.

[noamnety]

31. Not all of us gave Obama a pass for that.

I specifically did not, and took some heat here for calling him a homophobic bigot.

If you oppose equal rights for particular groups of people, that makes you a bigot. Even IF you do other great things in the world.

One can be a bigot and support discrimination even if one isn't in a position of power to personally deny those equal rights to someone, that doesn't excuse her bigotry.

[Bill McBlueState]

37. this attempt by several posters

to compare attitudes toward 1) a beauty pageant contestant and 2) the frakkin President of the United States and then call it a double standard continues to baffle me.

[The_Commonist]

4. She does have every right to give her opinion...

She was asked a question and answered it inarticulately, sounding like a complete idiot, and embarrassing her state, country and gender.

[screembloodymurder]

6. I didn't see it so I can't comment on her speaking ability,

but I would bet the majority of Americans agree with her on the issue.

[trumad]

7. You're kidding...

You're feigning outrage for something you didn't see?

Ugg

[screembloodymurder]

14. Outrage? What are you talking about?

I said Miss CA has a right to her opinion.

[Bill McBlueState]

38. "I would bet the majority of Americans agree with her on the issue"

Got a number?

I would bet it's not as clear-cut as you think.

[Starry Messenger]

40. He got granite--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=111177

He agreed with her on this issue so I guess there's one. Fortunately for us, he is now among the departed at DU.

[Toucano]

12. And she can be criticized, mocked, and punished for holding the wrong opinion.

That is how it works.

[galaxy21]

13. "Wrong opinion"

I personally disagree with what she said, but if Perez was asking her a moral question, then there was no right answer.And he was asking her a right/wrong question, he was setting her up.

And this idea of "punishing" someone for their opinion does not sit well with me, quite frankly. How can anyone be punished for an opinion?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. If Perez had asked her opinion on the Holocaust...

And she said "I'm glad they gassed those damn Jews," would you defend that opinion?

[galaxy21]

16. Rightly or wrongly, it's not seen as the same thing

So, yes, on gay marriage, she can have her own opinion without being "punished" for it. She was asked her opinion, she gave it. End of story. Now if she'd thrown homophobic slurs at Perez or behaved uncivilly that would be different, but she didn't.

I'm actually quite astounded that some people on here think you can persecute someone for their private thoughts and beliefs. I mean, I am actually really shocked that certain people on here think that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. It's a simple, logical extension of your belief that bigoted opinions are valid.

"I'm actually quite astounded that some people on here think you can persecute someone for their private thoughts and beliefs. I mean, I am actually really shocked that certain people on here think that."

So, you wouldn't care if she were a vicious neo-Nazi antisemite.

OK.

[galaxy21]

20. "So, you wouldn't care if she were a vicious neo-Nazi antisemite"

Exaggerate much?

Are you really comparing objection to gay marriage to being a vicious Neo Nazi anti semite?

Really?

[screembloodymurder]

18. You need to chill. Hers is not a hate crime.

It's church doctrine and involves the belief that marriage is a sacrament meant to bless the union between a man and women who wish to procreate. Get your own fucking union.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Crime? No, it's still hate.

It doesn't matter if it's church doctrine. It's still bigoted.

If the Bible said "Hate the blacks, and kill the Jews" it wouldn't validate anything, now would it.

[screembloodymurder]

22. I disagree.

The church (God bestows the sacrament) blesses the union for the purpose of procreation. The hatred is in your mind. No one is condemning alternate lifestyles, but the fact is it takes a man and a woman to procreate.

[Toucano]

25. Now that's an OPINION.

Not a fact.

We are not talking about your church's doctrine. She was asked about a legal question, not a religious question.

[screembloodymurder]

26. She answered in accordance with her faith.

She gave her opinion. You seem to think that makes her a mass murderer. I don't.

[Toucano]

27. She said nothing about her faith in her answer.

And it wouldn't excuse bigotry to say "in accordance with my faith..." any more than if she used her faith to justify any other WRONG answer.

I don't think that makes her a mass murderer.

I think it makes her a homophobic bigot who advocates discrimination against people for their sexual orientation.

[Toucano]

24. She wasn't asked to review her church's doctrine.

She was asked to comment on a legal issue.



Your church doesn't own the word "marriage".

[Bill McBlueState]

39. depends on the church

The idea that "marriage is a sacrament meant to bless the union between a man and women who wish to procreate" is hardly universal among Christian denominations. For one thing, I can't think of a single Protestant church that considers marriage a sacrament.

[Toucano]

21. No right or wrong answer?

Who are you kidding?

Moral questions have right answers and wrong answers.

For example, "What do you think of slavery?" If you answer, "I think it should be legal!" you are WRONG!

"Do you think we should allow girls to be taught to read?" If you answer, "No," you are WRONG!

"Should Black people be require to sit at the back of the bus?" If you say, "Yes," you are WRONG!

"Should we discriminate against people on the basis of their sexual orientation?" If you say, "Yes because it is how I was raised," you are WRONG!


She is in a job interview. If the employer doesn't like your answer, they don't have to hire you.

[galaxy21]

35. gay marriage is more of a moral question

If someone goes home, prays on it, and then decides they can't support it, that's fine. All I would ask is that they don't force their beliefs on others either by voting or campaigning against it. But can they still privately believe that? If they want. I can't stop them. I'm not the frigging thought police.

As for your other points: It's not the same. The vast majority of people don't see it as the same. I don't see it as the same, and frankly, continuing with the 'it's the exact same as slavery and segregation' talk is only going to ensure many black voters remain alienated from gay marriage .

[Toucano]

42. All people are equal in the eyes of the law or they are not equal in the eyes of the law.

You either support equality or you are a bigot. Human rights are not subject to the sways of public opinion nor any particular faith.

[galaxy21]

43. So, what punishment do you propose then for anyone who feels differently?

And bear in mind, we're taling about 60-65% of Americans, Obama, Biden, both the Clinton's, most senators and governors, and most of congress.

There are 300,000 million people in the U.S. Some people think marriage is a right, some people think it's a privilege. Do I agree with the people who say it's a priviledge for cross sex couples? No. But I can't figure out anyway to stop people feeling like that way. Really, how can you stop people feeling a certain way without resorting to intimidation or fear tactics? It's not possible.

I think there will be a point where gay marriage will be legal everywhere. But even then, someone saying 'marriage is a man and a woman' is not going to be considered hate speech. Old fashioned and out of touch, but not something controversial. When the two main religions in the world (Islam and Christianity) both have books that argue against gay marriage, it's very likely that there will always be a sizable number of people against it. And that's just being realistic.

[Stellabella]

28. Bigotry is the wrong opinion.

And she should be held accountable for it.

[galaxy21]

34. Accountability is one thing, punishment is another

Should she have lost because of her view? I don't think it's unreasonable that she did (although, I think something like that will probably encourage contestents to just lie in the future so I'm not sure what good it will do)

But the idea of "punishing" her is a different thing entirely. Calling her a "dumb b*tch" and a "dumb c*nt" was punishment, not accountability. Or did she have it coming?

[Stellabella]

44. I didn't call her names. And she shouldn't be.

Losing the crown was accountability. She needs to grow up.

[noamnety]

29. "How can anyone be punished for an opinion? "

Not punished, just not voted for.

I'm guessing when you voted in the last election, you opted not to vote for people who had the "wrong" moral positions on issues. Do you think it's fair you punished them for that?

[galaxy21]

33. That's different, because they were going to do something with their opinions

They were going to be in a position of power.

What position of power is Miss California in? What difference does it make to anyone what a beauty Queen believes? Who cares?

Also, see my above post on the difference between accountability and punishement.

[noamnety]

36. Sounds like you oppose any interview section at all

What difference is it what comes out of the woman's mouth, her job is to look pretty and shut up, eh?

[galaxy21]

41. You're attacking a woman who has already been called a "dumb b*tch" for giving her opinion

and you're accusing me of misogyny?

As for all this recent talk 'Oh, Miss USA represents me, she's out of line," I guarantee most of the people saying that never gave a shit about Miss USA before this. Probably couldn't name last year's winnner. Or runner up. Probably don't even follow the beauty Queen contests in their own state. Which is what I was getting at. No-one cared about these pegaents before this, and now suddenly its incredibly important?

I said it wasn't unreasonable that she lost because of it, but this idea that she has be torn down because of it is frankly hateful in it's own way.

[noamnety]

45. I think you're advocating the worst in a "beauty pageant"

The entire concept of beauty pageants is misogyny and sexism. That's a given - and it's why I think the judges who are outraged are first class hypocrites, upholding the patriarchy while whining about others upholding it.

Regardless of that, the one thing they did to make a feeble pretense at rising above that was to add an interview section. It's odd to me then when people say "What difference does it make to anyone what a beauty Queen believes?"

Why aren't people asked "what difference does it make to anyone what Miss America's ass looks like in a bikini?"

While I hate the contest on principle, the one redeeming quality it had this year was that it took a stand against homophobia. And then I see DUers saying the pageant shouldn't have even done that. You have your guarantees; I have mine. Mine is that if she'd made an openly racist comment during her interview (with a "no offense to anyone who's black" comment thrown in for good measure), your response would be different.

[Xenotime]

23. She is a fucking moron. What side are you on?

[JI7]

32. and we have a right to respond with ridicule or any other way we want

[ddeclue]

30. Only the stunt-lemmings jump off cliffs...

the other lemmings have "no cliff jumping" in their contracts.

:rofl: