Ask Cardinal George if he approves of torturers: 312-534-8200

[Trocadero]

He's the one who says Obama should not be allowed to speak at Notre Dame.

[AngryOldDem]

1. But there's a difference.

Follow me on this. Torture is okay because it's done to people who probably or most likely deserved it, and it was done to keep us all safe. Abortion is not okay because it's done to innocents. Never mind the fact that there are at least one million logical fallacies in the above statement, and that it is putting the value and sanctity of one life above that of another, which is exactly what pro-lifers claim abortion does.

Willful killing of any kind is wrong. Willfully inflicting pain on any living being is wrong. That is all the Church needs to say to keep its integrity on life issues intact. It's not really that hard. In fact, it would be following its own catechism.

This mealy-mouthed, moral equivocation is one of the many reasons why I left the Church. As someone on another board so eloquently put it, U.S. Church hierarchy is consistently showing that it cannot engage the modern world beyond its own, locked gates in any kind of productive or meaningful way.

There is more to social justice than abortion, and it's painful to see a long, rich history of Catholic social teaching swirling down the drain, hijacked by one issue. It angers me when I hear leaders like George and others of his ilk totally dismiss valid life issues like just war, just economy, the rights of the worker, and social equality as if they do not matter at all.

[Canuckistanian]

2. You could say the same thing about Capital Pinishment

And yet, the Catholic Church is officially against Capital Punishment.

And since at least 27 detainees died in American captivity (most likely tortured to death), the Church's silence on this issue is outrageous.

[AngryOldDem]

4. Thanks! I inadvertently left capital punishment out of my list.

That is another huge bone of contention for me as well.

I quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"CCC 2267: If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person.

"Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm -- without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself -- the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are very rare, if practically non-existent."

Again -- the moral blindness and equivocation astounds. How, after reading the above, can some Catholics point to George Bush as the paragon of pro-life issues? He, who under his governorship saw more people put to death on a weekly basis, and he, who often mocked the process? He, who authorized, approved, and encouraged acts that defy the Geneva Convention?

What say you, Cardinal George? Tell me again just WHY Barack Obama is such an unacceptable speaker for Notre Dame.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

3. Military was assigned to insure the tortured did not die. Think about that. N/T

[AngryOldDem]

5. But they did, though, didn't they?

And how well does Abu Garaib sit with you?