Police: Death of Freddie Mac's Kellermann "May" Be Suicide

[Dinger]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/22/kellermann.death.freddiemac/index.html



VIENNA, Virginia (CNN) -- The acting chief financial officer of mortgage finance giant Freddie Mac was found dead Wednesday morning at his home, police said.


David Kellermann, acting CFO of Freddie Mac, was found dead on Wednesday, police said.

David Kellermann was found dead of an apparent hanging, a source familiar with the investigation told CNN.

There were no signs of foul play when officers arrived at the home in Vienna shortly before 5 a.m., said Lucy Caldwell, a spokeswoman for police in Fairfax County, Virginia. She said the death "may have been an apparent suicide."

A second Fairfax County police spokesman, Eddie Azcarate, said Kellermann's body was found in the basement.

"The exact cause of death ... we're going to wait for the medical examiner," he said. Police were called by someone inside the home, he said, but he . . . "


I wonder if this really was suicide. What do you think?
:tinfoilhat:

[no_hypocrisy]

1. There is a legal presumption against suicide until it has been ruled out by

forensic evidence.

[movonne]

3. There is no doubt in my mind that he was murdered....no doubt

might be a little strong...so I will say 99 and 9tenth percent...

[ben_jenne]

12. MIHOP or LIHOP?

Barney Frank did throw Fannie and Freddie under the bus yesterday, I wonder where he was early this morning?

[tekisui]

15. Are you suggesting Barney Frank killed him?

[ben_jenne]

27. Makes as much sense as any other goof ball speculation

I've seen here.

[sufrommich]

17. The freepers are saying he was "Vince Fostered" and

blaming Obama. What is the difference between their theory and yours?Absence of any real proof seems to be popular on both sides of the fence.

[sufrommich]

2. All suicides are reported as such before the forensic evidence

comes in.

[Occam Bandage]

That is the opposite of the truth.

Suicides are not declared as such until after the forensic investigation.

[CoffeeCat]

9. Don't tell CNN that...

CNN and other media are strongly pushing the "suicide" meme, and they're all ready leaking that "no foul play is suspected.

The fingers are all ready pointed in the direction that they want us looking.

That is clear.

[Occam Bandage]

10. The police also say "no foul play is suspected" when there is no evidence of foul play.

Not really indicative of anything but a lack of evidence for murder.

[CoffeeCat]

14. ...but you can agree that they're strongly...

...pointing toward a suicide, correct?

[Occam Bandage]

20. Inasmuch as someone is dead from hanging and there are no signs of foul play, yes.

[marshall]

32. Isn't suicide foul play?

I thought it was still considered illegal in some areas, and if you survive an attempt you could actually be charged.

[sufrommich]

18. I meant that the word "may" is used until there is proof.

My post was badly worded.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

6. No.........

You have it backwards. The presumption is always against suicide until all other causes can be ruled out .....................

[Tangerine LaBamba]

4. Another hanging?

The DC Madame hanged herself, it was reported.

So did one of her girls, it was reported.

Hanging. It's awfully easy to hang someone after they've been sedated.

I'm not paranoid, but in this political climate, and after 8 years of those GOPigs, I am skeptical about any scene like this one..............

[Occam Bandage]

5. If someone has been sedated, then the drug would show up during the forensic investigation.

If you're going to drug someone, it's a lot easier to just overdose them on painkillers or something; that would at least be consistent with the forensic evidence. Hanging is, overall, probably the hardest form of suicide to fake.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

8. There are drugs

that don't show up in routine forensic examinations. Do you think the CIA, NSA, or any of their sub-organizations don't have access to things that can do the job and disappear or are unable to be detected? They're always had the best stuff.

Hanging someone who is unconscious is the easiest way to stage a suicide scene..

[Occam Bandage]

16. First, the NSA almost undoubtedly does not have access to those poisons,

since the NSA is a purely communications-intelligence agency that lacks any field capabilities whatsoever. The NSA is an agency of mathematicians, not of killers. Second, I cannot imagine a scenario in which the CIA decides it is in the nation's best interest to go after middling executives at Freddie Mac. I might halfway buy a scenario in which someone at Freddie Mac decides to hire the mob to kill him to keep him from providing testimony, but the CIA? Really?

This feeds into my third issue: the conspiracy theory quickly becomes absurdly complex. So someone at Freddie Mac manages to convince the CIA that they need to assassinate a fellow executive for reasons beyond our understanding, which they agree to for reasons beyond our understanding, and which they accomplish by infiltrating his house, injecting him with top-secret super-poisons that put him to sleep in a manner that doesn't cause any other observable effects, and then they string him up, hang him, and leave him. I'd wonder why he needed to be killed, why he couldn't just be bribed or offered immunity, why the CIA got involved, and why they chose to kill him in such a roundabout, complex manner.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. You're not from Washington, are you?

You've given it a precise and clear definition, the whole scenario.

Alas, in real life, things are simply not that neat, and if you believe what you've been told, you are believing lies .............................

[CoffeeCat]

11. I suspect that you wouldn't even have to drug...

...someone.

Get a few people who can overpower them and restrict their movements--and hang them in a noose.

I put nothing past the neocon power brokers. They're more desperate than ever because they lost the
Presidential election. They've got to figure out how to hold onto power, without the White House and I'm
sure that's an irritating challenge for these criminals.

I strongly suspect, although I can't prove, foul play. This guy was maybe wanting to talk--and he spoke
out to the wrong person.

This also sends a signal to the rest of the financial community--this is what happens when you don't play along.

[Occam Bandage]

19. You suspect incorrectly.

Any time someone is overpowered, they struggle. Struggling causes bruises, abrasions--and sometimes bone fractures--all over the body, and especially at the points where the victim was restrained. If someone is overpowered and murdered, it would be obvious to a casual observer.

[Occam Bandage]

7. First, they have to say it "may" be suicide, because they haven't done the forensics.

Secondly, hanging is one of the hardest forms of suicide to fake, if not the absolute hardest.

[CoffeeCat]

13. Interesting...

So, you couldn't restrict someone's ability to fight you (straight jacket, etc), and then just place
the person in a noose?

This is really sick and morbid to talk about, but you seem knowledgeable and I'm curious.

[TheWatcher]

21. He is knowledgeable in the ways of misdirection and obfuscation

Quite the master really.

Prepare for a veritable Carnival Of Spin.

Hope you brought the hip boots.

:hi:

[CoffeeCat]

25. Well, it seems obvious to me that...

...if some of the most criminal masterminds that ever lived--wanted to simulate a hanging--they
could figure out a way to do it.

There are drugs that paralyze a person without knocking them out. There are ways to do this.
The average guy on the street probably couldn't pull it off, but four guys from the CIA--who
have access to all kinds of drugs--and also the training--could easily pull that off.

No one can say for certain that it's impossible. And if they do, they're not being truthful.

That's clear to me.

We don't know what happened, but to suggest impossibilities when it comes to a crime cabal worse
than the Nazis--is a bit goofy.

[Occam Bandage]

28. The only way to simulate a hanging is to actually hang someone without them struggling.

It's possible that there are neuromuscular-blocking drugs that don't show up in a forensic test. Of course, all of the ones I've ever heard of have an onset period in which he probably would have called 911 thinking he was having a stroke, but I'm not a walking medicinal database. But by the time you're going to the length of poisoning someone so you can hang him, why wouldn't you just poison him and be done with it? Why not just induce a heart attack? Middle-aged white guys get those all the time, and a heart attack doesn't get the police and/or news media involved in the same way a suicide does.

[Occam Bandage]

29. I answer questions directly and provide factual reasoning for my claims.

If you don't like that, tough.

[TBF]

23. Wouldn't there be pretty substantial evidence to support whether

they hung themselves or were put there? It seems like that would be pretty clear medically.

[Occam Bandage]

26. I mentioned it above, but yes. People who are being attacked always try to free themselves.

Fighting leaves marks. Do a little experiment: grab the bit of skin between your thumb and index finger of your left hand between the thumbnail and index finger on the right hand. Squeeze firmly, so that the skin is trapped. Now, holding your right arm steady, pull your trapped left hand towards you, as hard as you can. You will likely stop out of pain or out of the fear of breaking the skin; that's fine. You will cause a small wound, with a tiny little bruise. It'll be there for a little while, but no big deal. Now, if you were being restrained and your life was in danger, you would be exerting much, much more pressure than that in an attempt to free yourself. Adrenaline would cause you to push as hard as your arm and leg muscles would allow, without pain or fear of injury stopping you. That would cause significant bruising. You would also be bruised anywhere you managed to strike your opponent, anywhere you yourself were struck, anywhere you managed to hit an object (say, accidentally banging your shin into a table while trying to kick out), anywhere they were applying pressure to you, etc., etc.

[leftofthedial]

22. weird, the Enron guys had to shoot themselves in the head three or four times to commit suicide.

Technology has come a long way.

[Poll_Blind]

30. That cracked me up and creeped me out deeply at the same time.

It was someone on DU who pointed out the dude'd shot himself multiple times in the head with Glaser Safety rounds. Designed to be highly frangible (so they don't continue to travel through and his an unintended target, hence "safety" in the name), popping two of those into your head and somehow surviving the first shot and still having the strength and inclination to fire the second is pretty damned impossible.

[RB TexLa]

24. Of course, take the simplest answer, which is usually the correct answer

and just throw that out as not possible. :rofl: