Waterboarding is a trinket. (MURDER! RAPE! CHILDREN!)(SUSAN BOYLE!)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

Beginning in 2004, accounts of abuse, torture, sodomy and homicide of prisoners held in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq (also known as Baghdad Correctional Facility) came to public attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

Last year a Republican senator conceded that they contained scenes of "rape and murder" and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said they included acts that were "blatantly sadistic."
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14864

Hersh: children raped at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has videos
http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh-children-raped.html

Children.

The focus on the "lightest" form of torture is the clue.



ETA: parenthetical remarks in the title
ETA: second parenthetical remarks

[DJ13]

1. LOOK! TORTURE!

Meanwhile more billions quietly funneled to the wealthy, more people losing homes and jobs, more people falling behind everyday due to the usurious practices of the banks living on welfare.

[Occam Bandage]

4. Do you believe Wall Street is responsible for the national discussion of torture?

[tekisui]

5. You think we should ignore it?

[DJ13]

8. No, but the timing seems kind of odd

Despite how much we all want serious disclosure and the prosecution of those involved, with that not looking like a sure thing this does seem to be served up now as the perfect distraction from our serious issues in need of immediate attention.

I mean perfect distraction because it brings a response such as yours that says theres nothing as important, even though our country is in a economic crisis.

[cali]

9. are you fucking kidding? that's delusional stuff.

torture is not some set up to distract us.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. ...but waterboarding is.

When placed against murder, rape and the involvement of children.

[cali]

14. no, it's really not. please see my other post.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. This took 2 minutes to put together and it's sinking like a rock...

[Occam Bandage]

6. It happens.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5509204&mesg_id=5509204

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. That misses the point.

Completely.

Murder.
Rape.
Children.

A completely different discusssion than waterboarding. Everybody agrees on the vileness of those three, yet the "official" discussion centers on the most ambiguous form of torture. That's my point.

[cali]

11. there's a reason why.

Cheney, Bush, etc were very likely not directly in the chain of command for the acts of rape, sodomy and murder. There's a paper trail with the waterboarding and lots of evidence that will lead directly back to the WH.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. A reason that holds no water.

[cali]

15. Because YOU say so?

try using an argument instead of "because I say so".

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. No, because your critical brain will walk you through it.

cali
there's a reason why.
Cheney, Bush, etc were very likely not directly in the chain of command for the acts of rape, sodomy and murder. There's a paper trail with the waterboarding and lots of evidence that will lead directly back to the WH.

There's a video trail to the material mentioned in the OP that was viewed by Congresspersons. To whit:

Rape video
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/06/18/1954193.htm

There's photos of Abu Ghraib:




There's a paper trail to Rumsfeld.

The techniques, approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/13/AR2005071302380.html


Do I need to continue?

[Occam Bandage]

22. There was no specific authorization of rape or of murder.

Humiliation was authorized, but that is an entirely different animal.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. You really believe that?

[cali]

29. got any evidence to show it was authorized? you know, that funny thing,

evidence, like the memos out of OLC? And no, I doubt that sodomy and rape were authorized by anyone in the White House or OLC. If they were "authorized" at all, I suspect they were authorized by someone waaay down the food chain.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. The destruction of 92 torture videos is de facto authorization/complicity.

Oh, wait! They were videos depicting torture, not sodomy, rape and murder!

Uh huh.

[cali]

34. bzzzt. that's not evidence of authorization.

duh.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. It's evidence of tacit approval, is it not?

The contrary position would be safeguarding the evidence and prosecuting.

duh

[Occam Bandage]

32. Barring any evidence to the contrary, I do, yes. nt

[OneGrassRoot]

23. Speaking of sinking like a rock...I posted much earlier today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5511625&mesg_id=5511625

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. Must be something in the air...

[Echo In Light]

37. There's A LOT of people who have always attempted to downplay/trivialize some of...

....the uglier aspects of the Bush/Cheney crimes. Due to validation of this in the mainstream it's likely rocking their worldview a tad since these are major atrocities that involved a great deal of engineering a 'legal' cover up. Some people don't like where it leads once a clean spot is made on a VERY dirty surface, if you follow...it threatens the popular "conspiracies" don't exist denial.

Frankly I don't trust this apparent attempt to hold any Bushies accountable on this - I suspect the real $ interests who own and run this country see it as necessary to put up a show/go through the motions (but nothing TOO consequential) ...but even I have to admit it's quite bizarre watching this play out on MSNBC (I'd pretty much given up on all/any M$M yrs ago, but have tuned in recently just to see how they're spinning this)

[tekisui]

3. What I like about how this is unfolding is,

THe defenders and apologist for torture have drawn a line. They defend that what we have seen in the recent memos is NOT torture. I disagree, and so does Geneva. However, as more is released and made known, they will be forced to admit it is torture. They have already said as much. It is great that the 'lighter' stuff came out first to set the parameters of the apologists debate.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. And I thought I was a cynic.

Hard to disagree, though (strategically, not humanistically).

[glitch]

16. Very interesting. K & R because a lot of newbies didn't see this stuff when it first came out.

Both you and OP making excellent points.

[seabeyond]

17. exactly. i keep waiting for the real stuff, and keep hearing waterboarding

and sleep deprivation.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. -

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. Is there no institutional memory?

:(

[glitch]

27. Only the institutional memory hole.

Kick cuz this OP should have gotten more interest.

[Toucano]

21. What's that about Susan Boyle? n-t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Trying to generate some interest.

Apparently it grabbed you! :D

[Toucano]

36. I know that trick!

LOL!

Amazing what we have to do sometimes, isn't it?

Oh, this is a kick by the way...

[wiggs]

28. Tip of the iceberg. I'm nearly positive I remember reports of at least

24 detainees dying at Abu Ghraib alone. I remember that one died of asphyxiation will being sat on inside a sleeping bag of some sort. Another died from a severe blow to the chest.

Weren't there dog bites? Electrodes on the nuts? Wasn't there a photograph of a dead guy on the floor?

Anytime ANYTHING from the Bush era comes to light (a leaked memo, an information dump, abu ghraib photos, whatever) I automatically assume it is to soften the blow or for sidetracking the public with respect to MUCH WORSE stuff that really happened.

[stillcool]

30. I would not be surprised ...

if there were a memo explaining in intricate detail why rape would not constitute "Severe" mental pain and suffering. I am certain that there is much, much more that will never be revealed. Considering what has been released so far, I expect my wildest imaginations are not even in the realm of how far it went.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. It disturbs me deeply that those who know all of this

are asking us to sweep it under the rug.