Earth Day: Pics don't lie. Glacial melt then vs now.

[Union Yes]

Mccall Glacier-1958


Mccall-2003




Mendenhall Glacier, Alaska
1937


2006





Muir Glacier, Alaska
1941 & 2004





Grinnell Glacier, Glacier National Park, Montana
1938


2005




Matterhorn
1960 & 2006




Kilimanjaro
Lansat-5 satellite image 1993

Lansat-7 2000

Kilimanjaro
2000 & 2006



Global climate change will test our morality.

Peace

[Muttocracy]

1. :(

:cry:

[populistdriven]

2. if you have any opinion about this you better know what the "albeido effect" is

We are all the way back to the 1980s when Jim Hansen claimed soot was the cause of glacier melting. No shit. Black shit, albeido, melts away. New snow white more snow more soot back to melt in summer.

But this was not fair to developing nations because US already had the lowest Particulate levels in the developed world and had already passed legislation to reduce further.

Then it was Greenhouse Gases as a whole, then focus on CO2, then Methane was the monster needing most direct curbing. Now with 2008 being a cool year we are back to Black.

In case you do not know who James Hansen is he started with Carbon Black back in 1980s.

It is getting colder, CO2 is still increasing, ice is thickening, and recovering with major increases and James Hansen is saying he saw it all along. Of course this could just be a brief respite.

Even Jim chicken little the sky is falling shows it getting cooler. Look at his graphs and his solar irradiance references at the end of the presentation. He called people that quoted solar irradiance info in the past 10 years deniers.

Again the media doesn’t report when the liars are proven wrong, talk double talk out of both sides of their mouths.

http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2009/20090113_Temperature.pdf

The fix is in. This is amazing stuff to watch unfold at the exact time legislation is being drafted and considered on Global Warming and now back stepping to Carbon Black.

Back step. Back Step…..

http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/

http://www.thebreakthrough.org/blog/2009/02/the_political_philosophy_of_ja.shtml

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/27/james-hansens-former-nasa-supervisor-declares-himself-a-skeptic-says-hansen-embarrassed-nasa-was-never-muzzled/

the fact is we don't have enough information to be making predictions as to
1 the cause of global warming
2 the amount of global warming we will have in the next 50 years

how can Obama make sound climate policy if the models show the data we have is not accurate enough? we need better information to make sensible policy


about the only thing we have a consensus on is that those glaciers melted because of soot not CO2

[HughMoran]

10. Good info

I've been following info posted on both sides of this issue - it seems that a period of reevaluation is needed to be sure that the models are accurate.

[populistdriven]

21. just give the modelers what they have been begging for - better data to calibrate to

[Tartiflette]

16. Politics before science

There is no evidence to suggest that there is cooling; people who make this claim tend to erroneously equate temperature with climate. Virtually all empirical data remains consistent with the hypothesis that climate change continues to occur, and is occurring potentially at a rate exceeding worst-case hypotheses. Hence there is a need to address the issue, despite the uncertainties involved in the degree of warming. Posts like yours obfuscate the issue, IMO in part, this is deliberate, in order to cast doubt on the (fairly consistent) science. Refuting comments such as yours takes time, is complex, and beyond my scientific literacy to do correctly; however, almost all conceivable stones thrown at the climate change hypothesis are addressed at www.realclimate.org, and they will address any questions or counter arguments with rational, scientific responses (unless they're rehashing long since discredited hypotheses...). For doubting Thomases I'd suggest posting your counter arguments there, and debating an actual climate scientist!

[populistdriven]

20. i do think co2 is a ghg but we have no idea as to the amount and rate of warming

the point is because of global politics, the inadequate funding for good research and the media being clueless we have lost valuable time to cut back on soot

[On the Road]

26. As Far as Predicting Global Cooling Goes,

no one that I know of predicted the virtual cessation of sunspot activity this year. Assuming that is a trend assumes that sunspots will continue to be in decline indefinitely.

This same argument was brought up in the late 90s during the last sunspot cycle. Temperatures did fall temporarily. Then the 11-year cycle continued and temperatures increased again on the same incline.



There are multiple things going on. A change in one of them does not refute a longer-term change in the others.

[populistdriven]

33. yes agreement on all points - the solar irradiance admission is suprising

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. "a consensus on is that those glaciers melted because of soot" - no.

Where have you got that from? The warming effect of CO2 is way more than any black carbon effect - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing , or the IPCC on radiative forcings (where the graph in the Wikipedia article comes from): http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter2.pdf

[populistdriven]

32. well the godfather hansen is apparently in disagreement once again - look at his report

my internet is bad tonight ill look at those links tomorrow

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. I looked at the links you gave, and saw nothing about soot in them

:shrug: Maybe I missed something. But the 'consensus' is what the IPCC says, if anything is - it was designed to be the best summary of the scientific research that had been well discussed. And they assign a very small role to black carbon.

[earth mom]

3. 5th Rec here!

This breaks my heart! :cry:


Repower America

Make this Earth Day a turning point

Right now, Congress is debating clean energy legislation that will jumpstart our economy and help solve the climate crisis. This is the historic comprehensive energy legislation that we've been waiting for.

On this Earth Day, will you support this crucial legislation?
Add your voice and commit to getting 10 people to sign the petition as well.

"I support clean energy legislation that will create millions of jobs and help solve the climate crisis by closing the carbon pollution loophole."

more:
http://www.repoweramerica.org/page/s/earthdaygore

[northofdenali]

7. Done and passed on to my 10. n/t

[Union Yes]

11. Signed. Things are gonna change EM.

We finally have a President that cares.

Thanks for posting that link.

Peace

[The Straight Story]

4. Unless, it seems, it if a pic of a UFO

:)

[alfredo]

5. Kilimanjaro from a youth Hostel in Moshi Tanzania Sept 1969

Moshi was a good town. Had a lot of fun there. Met some nice people.

[Union Yes]

12. Great pic. Thanks for posting it. Really adds to op.

Peace

[alfredo]

23. Thanks. I loved Moshi. It was a nice little town.

[northofdenali]

6. Glaciers have a tendency to recede or surge -

I've been here since 1968, and have watched the Portage Glacier go from road-side viewing to having to pay to get on a tour boat to go see what's left. However, some others have surged - due to more snow, feeding them - in areas where this type of snowfall isn't "normal".

Our winters are most certainly warmer. I haven't seen 50 below since 1998, and that was in a "cold spot" in the area. 50 below here is "bragging point"; I haven't been able to brag in years. We still have our weeks-long 35 to 40 below but they're shorter. Ice fog has become a "phenomenon" instead of the norm.

Global warming is very real to those of us who live and love cold-climate environments.

[XemaSab]

13. I went to Portage Glacier 10 years ago

It's shocking to me that you can no longer see it from the visitor center.

[Laelth]

8. k&r for the Earth.

It is the only home we have.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Cetacea]

9. This is normal this time of year.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Thanks for posting this.

[Union Yes]

15. I cant argue that!

Blame it on springtime.:rofl:

Peace

[amborin]

14. K & R

[zbdent]

17. on the local RW (among many) radio station, the hosts were going nuts because,

in winter, in Cleveland, there was snow ... that, apparently was proof that Global Warming was a lie ...

Of course, they won't acknowledge that, in the summer, in Cleveland, 100 degree weather in August should then prove that Global Warming is fact ... by their logic ...

[Union Yes]

28. Good points. We've all heard their denial every time it snows..

But I'd like these same denialists explain tornadoes in northern Illinois in January. Like we've had the past 2 years.

Tornadoes rarely occur in winter.

Thanks for posting.

Peace.

[zbdent]

31. had a RWer at our Christmas party in Cleveland two Xmases ago

tell me "it's cyclical" ... when we were able to walk out in a light jacket in downtown Cleveland ... 12/18 or so ... go figure ...

[Heidi]

18. Altesch Glacier, Switzerland.

Largest glacier in the Alps; animation shows the Altesch's retreat between 1990 and 2000. Photos show retreat between 1900 and 2005. :(

[Union Yes]

29. wow..thanks for adding those pics.

Peace.

[leftofthedial]

19. Cool!

More room for golf courses!






















uh, :sarcasm:

[dysfunctional press]

22. from the lansat pics of kilimanjaro- it also looks like a lot of vegetation below the tree line...

on the slopes isn't doing all that well, either.

[G_j]

24. K&R

[rucky]

25. Here's a good Wiki page on Glacial retreat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850

[Union Yes]

30. Thanks for the link.

I grabbed at least one pic from that page in my op.

Peace

[BlooInBloo]

35. Pics don't lie, but people sometimes do...

Were the pics taken at the same time of year, for one example?