It'll take a while, but the torture issue and her compliance with it, will take Pelosi down

[cali]

Yes, here, we've known of this for some time, but the general public hasn't really paid attention. They'll start to. More and more information about Pelosi's contemptible compliance and complicity with bushco, holds the seeds of her political demise.

[ixion]

1. I hope it will take down every politician who in any way supported war crimes

and crimes against humanity. Whether directly or indirectly, these people should not be allowed to further their careers on the tortured backs of others.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

2. At the very very very least, it should take her down in her home district.

That's not to say that she won't become involved in whatever the larger proceedings turn out to be.

[Kolesar]

3. They were not allowed to take notes at the briefing

A huge amount of information was thrown at the members of Congress to overwhelm their ability to comprehend it. Then there was the assumed message that if you don't go along with bush*, then you are stabbing the troops in the back.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

5. Porter Goss reported actual enthusiasm for the "enhanced program" nt.

[KharmaTrain]

8. Shhhhh...You Speak Too Much Reality

Seems like some here haven't understood that the boooosh regime attempted to compromise Pelosi and other Democratic leaders by putting them in a Catch 22. While barely complying with the separation of powers by "informing" certain party leaders (not ALL Democrats, like the wingnuts claim) with a vague explanation of what was going on and then forcing them to sworn secrecy in lieu of severe penalties (and if you don't think the boooshies would have thrown leaders in jail or tried to turn them into "traitors" how soon one forgets where we were circa 2003-2004). Anyone who dared to look at the boooosh regime funny was trashed (remember Senator Durbin's comments about how repressive things had become and he was forced to back down??).

We're already hearing the torturers and their enablers jumping on how they didn't "act alone"...that these briefings made Democrats complicit in the crimes of the boooosh regime, and those who have a problem with Speaker Pelosi are more than happy to jump in and spread the manure.

I highly doubt the Harman revelations will take Pelosi down. It'd be another story if Harman had been given charimanships, she didn't. If anything, seems like Pelosi "backbenched" Harman...so where's the "blackmail"? If anything, it looks like Harman was positioning to push Pelosi aside...playing ball with the boooshies and gambling that Democrats and Pelosi would fail, opening up her chances. Remember, in 2005-2006, the Democrats faced difficult times and choices...an election wipe out that year would have led to veto proof rushpublican majorities. Had that happened, surely Pelosi would have taken the blame/fall and Harman saw her chance. She gambled and lost and now we're seeing the price she was willing to pay to get even more power.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

11. Harman actively worked to keep the NYT from publishing wiretap story before election

which effectively kept Bush IN office. She had to know that was was acting as a virtual Republican lobbyist. Jane Harman should be booted out of the Party in my opinion.

[KharmaTrain]

15. Agreed...But We Don't Have That Choice...Her Constituents Do

I remember Harman trying to spin her positions about FISA on DKOS and getting her head handed to her. The lady's ambition and abbrasive personality came across loud and clear...many wondering if she was really a Democrat. She tried to say that "Democrats can't been seen as weak", yet folded like a deck of cards to the right wing talking points and played the useful idiot for the corporate media many times.

It looks like there has already been fallout from her cozying up to the boooshies...she didn't get the powerful chairmanship she wanted and her once rising star in the caucus is no more. This scandal is sure to kill any chances she thought she had of any future leadership role or dreams of higher office.

Let's hope a progressive candidate challenges her in next year's primary...thats where we can show our "appreciation" to Ms. Harman.

Cheers...

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

12. I agree with you about the Catch 22. Some process has to be put in place so this doesn't happen

again. If someone is in a National Security briefing and is told something that they believe is illegal, they should have some way to report it and make their disagreement a matter of record. We need something like a Solicitor General for National Security who deals strictly with isues like this.

The one who seemed the most shaken up, in my opinion, was Jay Rockefeller, who went home and wrote a letter to himself to document his reservations.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Then He Put It In The Drawer...

I have less compassion for Rockefeller as he did have a chance to bring a lot of this to light a year ago, but chose to push the FISA bill through the Senate to boooshie's specification cause he wanted to kick this can down the road...shove the dirt under the rug. Doesn't look like it worked.

I'm not sure there's much we can do here. Put the shoe on the other foot. Say President Obama learns of a true threat to this country and must secretly (NO not torture) go about foiling the plot (such as Pres. Clinton did with the Millenium plots) but also keeping congressional leaders briefed. How would you feel if a rushpublican came forward and exposed the secret briefings? Yes, I know and am very vocal about my opposition to torture and, at the time, was critical of Rockefeller, in specific, but other Democrats as well who damn well knew we had violated international laws and choose to angst. It appears others (CIA) were the ones who leaked the torture story...and even then, here we are, 3 years after the revelations and still debating if it was "criminal" or not.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

16. I wasn't speaking of "exposing" secret briefings. I was speaking

of a way that someone of either party could make an official protest that ALSO stayed secret but would be part of the entire classified record. If something like that had been in place, Pelosi and the other Dems would have some cover, if they were in fact against the program.

I'm not convinced that they were against the program. It appears that Harman at least and perhaps Pelosi were actual proponents. I don't really know about Rockefeller except he thought it was weird enough he had to document it for his personal records. Bob Graham I just don't know but he has just taken a very courageous stance for someone who was directly involved to say put it all out there.

[KharmaTrain]

17. Hoyer Was Pushing This, Too...

Many look past him, as Majority Leader, he, like Tom DeLay, are the real power behind the thrones in the House. They set the agendas as to what comes to the floor, what goes to committee or gets tabled. Hoyer was a big advocate for pushing FISA and has sided many times with the Blue Dogs. IMHO, some of the heat and anger directed at Pelosi was more Hoyer's doing.

Graham was punching his ticket out of the Senate when a lot of this was going on and did speak out in 2006 when the first torture stories surfaced, but he could do so at a safe distance. Rockefeller looked totally compromised...while he had misgivings about what went on, he also worked hard to make sure those crimes were either covered up or legitimized. When he revealed his private memo, I felt sorry for him, but that changed when he went balls out for telco immunity.

One thing I do applaud President Obama on is waiving the draconian presidential secrecy laws of the booosh regime that made it impossible for any real transparency. It's only now that we're seeing in document form what many of us knew existed 2 or 3 years ago...wasted years, wasted lives. My hopes are that the American people will demand a full accounting and the pressure we've seen about releasing of the torture memos and the ensuing call for investigations and prosecutions.

The right wing is screaming cause they know they're, once again, caught in their lies and the louder they scream, the closer we get to the truth.

[dem629]

18. What did you guys have for snacks at the meetings?

[NNN0LHI]

4. Put it in the ashtray for a while

You are falling for the right wing spin.

Don

[cali]

7. care to explain how I'm falling for right wing spin?

Are you going to claim that Pelosi didn't know about torture?

[mmonk]

6. One would think. However, torture hasn't taken anyone down yet.

There is even a debate about it here in the US. Pretty sad.

[Forkboy]

9. Hope springs eternal.

[lazer47]

10. This is one thing you and I can absolutely agree on,

The oven is on and she is cooking, pretty soon you can put a fork in her,, because she will be done,,

[MadHound]

14. Which is one reason that I think that the AG is going to quietly let this whole thing drop

Too many powerful people on both sides of the fence have a stake in not prosecuting these crimes. I imagine that Holder will "keep this under advisement" for awhile, then at a most opportune time, quietly drop it based on some lame legal excuse.