If the Repubs want to make torture a political issue, then let them !!

[kentuck]

America is not a country that supports torture. Democrats need not be intimidated by these right-wing thugs making excuses for their support of torturing another human being. It is a crime. If it goes all the way to Dick Cheney and George W Bush, then so be it. Nobody is above the law.

The longer this "debate" goes on, the worse it is for the Republicans. President Obama should step aside on this issue and let the Justice Department do its job. One would think it was the Republicans being chained for days to ceiling hooks until their legs were numb and paralyzed. Waterboarding was a break from this torture. It only lasted for 20-30 minutes. Let them continue to scream in their agony.

[Bluerthanblue]

1. exactly- torture is Anti- AMERICAN -get over it repubs.

and any republican who fights against accountability is fighting against the very principals this nation was founded on!

Well said Kentuck!

[kentuck]

2. I hope the Democrats don't wimp out on this...

For once, I would like to see them stand up for a principle.

[Junkdrawer]

3. Fine. But we need to debunk the "Torture Works" lie....

My Tortured Decision ALI SOUFAN
Published: April 22, 2009

FOR seven years I have remained silent about the false claims magnifying the effectiveness of the so-called enhanced interrogation techniques like waterboarding. I have spoken only in closed government hearings, as these matters were classified. But the release last week of four Justice Department memos on interrogations allows me to shed light on the story, and on some of the lessons to be learned

One of the most striking parts of the memos is the false premises on which they are based. The first, dated August 2002, grants authorization to use harsh interrogation techniques on a high-ranking terrorist, Abu Zubaydah, on the grounds that previous methods hadn’t been working. The next three memos cite the successes of those methods as a justification for their continued use.

It is inaccurate, however, to say that Abu Zubaydah had been uncooperative. Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, I questioned him from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August. Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence.

...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5517172&mesg_id=5517172

[kentuck]

4. You cannot prove or disprove a negative...

One would have to assume this information could never have been gotten another way.

[Junkdrawer]

5. They were getting good intelligence BEFORE TORTURE....

then they introduced torture and got bad intelligence.

[kentuck]

6. That must be why Cheney kept telling lie after lie...

about al Qaeda and their whereabouts in Prague, or Baghdad, or different places that never panned out. He must have been using the information gained from torture???

[Junkdrawer]

8. I'm told that they tortured until the got, not the truth, but the answers they wanted....

It's a time-honored use of torture.

See "Salem Witch Trials", "Inquisition" etc. etc...

[kentuck]

9. Exactly !

The torturers hear what they want to hear. With all the bad information, it is a liability all around. Not to mention inhumane and criminal.

[Winterblues]

7. Actually we don't

Torture is illegal. It doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it works or not. It is something that can't be proved anyway. As Rachael said last night the FBI has a very strong record on debriefing and getting convictions. They don't use torture. The Terrorists that did the first Trade Center bombing are behind bars. Same as the ones that bombed our embassy in Nairobi. Where is Bin Laden if torture works so damn well? Torture is unAmerican....PERIOD

[Junkdrawer]

10. I do not want to give Cheney et. al. the "We did it to Protect America" talking point.

1.) It's a lie

2.) If we allow the lie to stand, Cheney will be "vindicated" after the next terror attack/scare.

[Bluerthanblue]

13. any means to an end? If we take that kind of thinking to the logical

end then we can just murder all those who threaten us-

Because then we won't have to worry about what others may be planning.

:shrug:


Ridiculous? hell yes- so is saying that we have to become what we claim to despise, because we don't want 'them' to win.??

[kentuck]

14. Cheney seems to be the expert on "torture" so maybe...

They should ask him what specific memo he would like to release to prove his point??

[mwb970]

11. Did you see Shep Smith railing against torture on Fox "News"? Yikes!

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/138066/fox_news%27_shepard_smith_uncensored%3A_%27we_are_america%2C_we_do_not_f**king_torture!%27/

[kentuck]

12. It shocks the conscience.

Of every normal human being.