Why do some women care so much about the military draft?

[Lance_Boyle]

Is "skin in the game" a necessary condition for having a valid opinion?

[aquart]

1. Men have always said so.

[Mz Pip]

2. Women have sons.

That counts for a lot.

[ellacott]

5. and husbands

and brothers.

Women have made great sacrifices when a loved one is away.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. and brothers and friends and husbands and assorted loved ones

[TahitiNut]

24. Well, men have wives and daughters and sisters and girlfriends and ...

... MANY here claim that a male's opinion regarding abortion is irrelevant.

:shrug:

Gotta love that one-way, self-serving posturing.

[Mz Pip]

29. I'm not one of them n/t

[TahitiNut]

30. I know.

:fistbump:

[tuckessee]

3. In the era of Total War anybody might have "skin in the game"

The two million or so unarmed Vietnamese civilians who were killed both intentionally and accidentally by all sides certainly had a lot of "skin in the game".

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. i am confused about this question. are you saying unless women can be drafted their opinion doesnt

count?

[Warpy]

7. Women have skin in the game

the skin of their sons.

[butterfly77]

8. My sons..

[DevonRex]

9. This is related to the post about why some men care so much about abortion.

[ellacott]

13. That is an illogical thought also

[Captain Hilts]

10. Can a woman support a draft which exempts women? No. nt

[DevonRex]

11. I agree. nt

[Dr Fate]

12. If there had been a draft, we wouldn't be in Iraq right now.

For that matter, I doubt we would be in Afghanistan either.

For better or for worse, this is what I believe.

It's not so much that I "care" about it but that I find this to be an interesting dynamic.

[Warpy]

14. If there had been a draft, we would also be in Iran and Syria

because Stupid would have had access to all our children.

The draft does not work as a deterrent to war.

That was proven in Vietnam. Until the very last few years, the protesters were only college aged kids. The rest of the country, Nixon's silent majority, tacitly supported that war.

I will never accept the draft. Consider what the madmen in the last administration would have done with it.

[Dr Fate]

19. I disagree- there never would have been an Iraq war in the 1st place.

Do you realize how many college age kids and other 18-34 year olds initially supported the invasion of Iraq? Of coure, they "supported" it knowing full well they would not have to go.

History would be different if they had known they might actually have to go there. My guess is they would not have found media propaganda so convincing- and would have at least researched the facts.

The Vietnam war was unpopular with the educated middle class b/c of the draft, and was ended b/c of the war's unpopularity, so the draft did work to end the war in that case. Nixon's silent majority, tacitly supported that war- and yet the draft-weary protesters won out. The war was ended.

Interesting that law makers made damn sure they got rid of the draft after that one- also interesting that they have been systematically eliminating education and the middle-class itself as well.

The last thing the govt. wants is middle-class college kids and under 30 types actually researching whether the govt. is giving them a good reason for risking their lives & futures.

[Warpy]

21. It's a nice dream

but millions of people were in the street demonstrating against going into Iraq, more than we had at any time in the early 70s at the peak of the movement. If the will of the people had been considered, we'd never have gone there without the draft, let alone with one.

Alas, it's a dream, and a silly one. The reason Stupid was limited to Iraq is the lack of manpower from decreased enlistments. The generals finally stood up to him and told him NO when he wanted to go into Iran and Syria.

Apparently you don't realize how close we came to that, or you don't want to because it will destroy your unrealistic point.

As for justifying the risk to life and limb of our children in the military, when is it going to dawn on you that madmen don't care? Their children have never been subjected to military service unless they volunteered, draft or no draft. They don't care about our children, and access to more of them will just widen their wars of corporate ambition.

No draft, not now, not ever. There are very good reasons we got it abolished, reasons you might want to take the time and care to learn.

[Dr Fate]

26. For Iraq, the folks at home watching the protests on TV had no fear of being drafted.

During the vietnam war, the opposite was true. Folks at home watching the protests knew that they might find themselves fighting...

I see a huge difference in the dynamic there.

I realize that we came close to going to Iran & Syria and I also realize that there was no draft when that almost took place.

If there had been, maybe it never would have gotten to that point.

I think it is a factor.

I'm pretty sure that conservative & Republican law maker's had "very good reasons" for eliminating & continuing to oppose the draft -and they are much different from your reasons.

Also- no need to call me silly or to accuse me of not taking time to learn things just because I'm looking at this from a different POV.

There is a reason why George Bush, Dick Cheney and all RW media was and is opposed to the draft- and it has nothing to do with your reasons.

[Regret My New Name]

31. Yet the war in Vietnam went on for how many years?

[Dr Fate]

27. Also- if all you say is true- then why does the Right Wing OPPOSE and not support the draft?

Everyone from Rush Limbaugh to military generals to Republican congressmen to George Bush & Dick Cheney have made it clear that the draft is off the table.

Many instances of the forces you mention coming out in opposition to the draft and making it very clear that the draft is not what they want.

Why?

If the draft is truly a way for these interests to have even more wars, then why have they not been supporting, rather than opposoing the draft?

As it is, Republcians & conservatives do not even want a discussion of it.

Seems to me that if the draft would HELP their war efforts, as you claim, then they would be for it, not against it.

They have their reasons.

[cali]

15. wow. what codswallop.

Women have skin in the game. Go read Lysistrata.

[TahitiNut]

23. Nonsense.

[seabeyond]

16. i think men have a place in voicing on issue of abortion. i think the thread suggesting otherwise

doesn't make a lot of sense.

i also think that men should be of the position to actually listen, think, to the woman understanding that they will never be in the position, ergo, their thought on it is skewed. but i dont think that nullifies their opinion on abortion and i would never knee jerk dismiss a mans opinion on abortion. i will challenge them on the hypocrisy of their argument though.

to your question....

same go, sons, brothers, that are effected. i have talked about this with my sons, if there is a draft it will ultimately be their decision and i understand the male figures in my sons life will have be a strong influence of information to my sons in their making decision cause of gender commonality.

[seabeyond]

17. a step further though. women demanding an equality, i think the argument has to be made

that IF there is a draft, females have to be included in that draft and if they demand the draft, that has to be part of the draft of the argument, then it absolutely puts skin in the game

[SteelPenguin]

18. A vote for war is a vote to volunteer

I know this is tangental but there was a sci-fi book I read, don't remember which....which in the future had a society where the country couldn't go to war unless the country as a whole voted for it. The only people who could vote for war were people eligible to be drafted, and the people who voted to go to war, if the vote carried, were immediately drafted into service to fight the war.

The rationale was that people who don't have to actually go to war have different views on it and downplay the significance of war. Women, mothers, or people not eligble for the draft might see things differently, and also that if someone is going to vote to go to war, they need to put their money where their mouth is.

Therefore a vote to go to war was a public vote, and could only be done by people healthy and eligble, not even just men, but draft age men capable of going to war...That way when you vote to go to war, you know that you're voting for YOU to go to war.

supposedly it cut down on war in the novel. An interesting thought. No more blowhards on TV talking up the war, or people waving the American flag in favor of war, without putting their money where their mouths are.

[FedUpWithIt All]

20. ...

:eyes:

"skin in the game" eh?

The males in my own life would never question that i have an opinion on the matter because they appreciate and value my love and my role in their lives.

[blondeatlast]

25. Well said.

:thumbsup:

[Hansel]

22. I have a son, that's why.

And I would expect any future draft to include woman. I also have a daughter, that's why.

[H2O Man]

28. because