“If your children are sick, have a fever and flu-like illness, they shouldn’t go to school.”

[mzmolly]

From MSNBC ~

New U.S. swine flu cases spread pandemic fears
Government declares public health emergency; 20 cases in U.S. confirmed

President Barack Obama has received regular briefings from advisers on the swine flu outbreak and the White House readied guidance for Americans.

“The government can’t solve this alone, we need everybody to take some responsibility,” Napolitano said.

Besser urged Americans to practice frequent handwashing and to stay home if they feel sick. “If your children are sick, have a fever and flu-like illness, they shouldn’t go to school.”

The U.S. will begin screening travelers at the nation’s borders and isolating people who are actively ill with suspected influenza, the director of Homeland Security said today. No travel restrictions are issued currently, but that could change, she said.

LINK

[Horse with no Name]

1. I agree

Bad thing for me--as a healthcare worker, our hospital has a HARSH absence policy. Walmart's absence policy is more lenient than ours.
They couldn't care less if you are sick or if you are spreading disease. They just want you THERE.:(

[mzmolly]

2. That's something that needs to be addressed on a systemic level

I think? I think the CDC should promote a "stay home when you're ill" campaign?

Oops, edited for grammar. ;)

[suffragette]

3. And that's a serious issue the announcement doesn't address

There is huge pressure in the US for adults to go to work, no matter how ill they feel.
And in these economic times, with many people feeling they could lose their job at any moment, the pressure to go in is even stronger.

[rainbow4321]

23. Same with our hospital...4 absences in a YEAR gets you a verbal warning

It goes by the point system. If you are late (for whatever reason--even stuck in traffic) you get 2 points, call in sick you get 3 points, forget to clock in or out, you get 2 points.
If you accumulate 30 points in a year, you're fired. I've worked with co-workers who are all but coughing up a lung and they will tell you straight out "I already have too many points" or "I don't have enough PTO time accumulated to take off". And, believe me, once we GET to work, it is next to impossible to have management agree to let us go home during the day. I've seen some people walking around all day with surgical masks on because they are sick and don't want to spread anything to the patients in our HIV clinic...but they couldn't call in so they don the mask for the day.


So if anyone is teetering close to that NOW (pre-swine flu crisis), they sure as hell are not going to call in even if they are running fever, having symptoms, etc...UNLESS the hospital will decide to waive that system for this health crisis--to keep the waiver system from being abused they could say the person has to bring in a doctor's note as proof. But that would make too much sense and our system doesn't have much of THAT, let me tell ya.

[Horse with no Name]

25. What a horrific system

Our hospital USED to let you work off your absences--2 for 1.
They suspended that policy.
They also won't let us use our vacation time (in lieu of an absence) randomly, it has to be scheduled. However, they make you use your vacation TIME on your first 3 days of being sick--THEN and only THEN can you use your sick time.
But, you still get an absence.

[rainbow4321]

30. All of our vacation and sick time are lumped into one bank

Between that and then being an outpatient clinic we are closed for holidays (again, comes out of the SAME PTO bank if you want to get paid for the day off), it is next to impossible to accumulate any PTO to use if you are sick.
So what happens in the end? People come in sick as dogs because they are out of PTO, have to many "points" in our fucked up point system, or they are "saving their PTO" for an upcoming vacation---meanwhile they spread their illness to the rest of their co-workers (who also have no PTO and have to deal with the point system) and, even WORSE, our HIV patients, as well. Horrible, screwed up cycle. You would expect more from a health care system employer..instead, they are usually the WORST!!

Now throw in this "keep your child home if they are sick" or "stay home if you are having flu symptoms" and it just doesn't seem very realistic down here in the trenches.

[Horse with no Name]

32. They separated our sick time and vacation time so they can force

you to use your vacation time when you are sick, and put a list of conditions on your sick time that makes it almost impossible to use.
You have to have 80 hours of sick time accumulated BEFORE you can even access it.
If you are absent more than 2 consecutive days, you must be able to qualify for FEMLA.
Nurses in Texas need a union in the worst way.:(

[rainbow4321]

80. Heads up, Horse, it's hit Dallas County

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3849994&mesg_id=3849994

[Horse with no Name]

85. It was only a matter of time

yikes though

[Roon]

76. I had a friend open our front door and pop her head in

she said she was sick and didn't want to get us sick..was just there to say hi real quick....then she left to go to work working at a subway making sandwhices for lunch rush.

A bit later my ex and I both came down with a really harsh case of the flu. The friend that gave it to us?......she went to work as a sandwhich maker at a Subway because her boss wouldn't allow her to call in sick. Can you imagine all the people she infected?

[truedelphi]

79. I can't even begin to count al lthe times I have been about to order

Food somewhere and decide that the sneezing, drooling sick person behind the counter is not touching anythig I eat.

It's nuts that food places let workers work when they are ill.

[arcadian]

4. Why is Napolitano commenting on this?

Last time I checked CDC was under Health and Human Services.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Because disaster plans are enacted under FEMA

and FEMA is part of DHS

[arcadian]

6. So it's come to this?

Yeah, that worked so well during Katrina.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Current director of FEMA is a 25 year Emergency Services Pro

but I am sure you knew that.

And FEMA worked wonders when under Clinton, I am sure you also knew that

They were THE MODEL for emergency response world wide

Bush ON PURPOSE destroyed government agencies

Wake up and smell the roses... this is truly a new era and to listen to COMPETENT Guv'ment officials tell you we are activating this, as a precaution, should be your first clue... they KNOW their shit

[BlooInBloo]

12. (facepalm)

[Occam Bandage]

16. Way to buy the Republican spin on government.

"Well, Bush fucked up government agency X. Therefore, the Republicans are right: government agency X doesn't work."

[jwirr]

33. Katrina had a bush appointee running it then and this is now. A** &

Co. had no intention of helping anyone in Katrina and they didn't.

[Garbo 2004]

47. Good grief. Funny how FEMA worked under Clinton but failed under Bush.

Bush crippled FEMA, put an incompetent, unqualified hack in charge and didn't care if it actually worked to serve the people and its mission. That's the Repub ideology in practice: gov't doesn't work and we'll make sure it doesn't. Guess the last eight years succeeded in making Reaganites of some Dems. Mission accomplished.

[Dappleganger]

74. The US is so used to FAIL

we wouldn't know how a good system is supposed to work if it bit us in the ass.

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Maybe because we don't have an HHS Secretary right now

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. That too

[MorningGlow]

10. Well, no shit

My kid has missed a ton of school this year (thank goodness it's "just" kindergarten) because he's had a variety of viruses, one after the other, some severe, some mild. In fact, he has a low-grade fever right now--threw up last night (which is his usual m.o.--barfing at the onset of any illness) and I knew the minute he said he felt yucky last night that he was going to miss one, two, or even three days of school this week. Any parent with half a brain isn't going to even think about sending their kid to school if they are "sick, have a fever and flu-like illness".

:wtf:

[mzmolly]

13. Let me say I WISH every parent

had such common sense. I think some people are actually passive aggressive when they have sick kids? "If my kid is sick, yours will be too" appears to be the mantra?

[GoCubsGo]

22. The same should be said of adults.

If you are sick, stay home, and don't spread it around your co-workers, fellow gym members, fellow public transit users, shoppers, church-goers etc. Yes, I do understand that some people have little choice, but to go to work sick. But, there are also ever growing numbers of us out here who don't have health insurance, and we cannot afford to see a doctor after catching another person's disease.

[mzmolly]

24. Exactly!

Fully agree.

[ejpoeta]

68. that's hard to do when you only get so many sick days and may not even get paid for a sick day.

as for church and other places, i tend to agree unless you HAVE to.

[mzmolly]

75. Agreed. I did not mean to sound insensitive to this

problem. But I do think we need to work toward a solution somehow.

[Tesha]

77. You know, if we had an actual progressive government, we could fix this.

But we have government of the DLC, by the DLC, and for
their corporate sponsors.

So pound sand.

Tesha

[MorningGlow]

41. I wonder if it's more a case of "Oh, you're not that sick!"

Not out of cruelty, but desperation. Unfortunately a change in routine, even a kid staying home sick from school, wreaks havoc in a family. I'm fortunate to be able to rely on my husband sometimes and my mother most of the time to take care of MG Jr. when I have to meet a deadline--and it always seems like he gets sick when a deadline is looming the very next day...

[mzmolly]

52. I think it's a shame parents have to choose between work and caring

for sick children.

[sojourner]

87. school will climb right up your ass about kid missing too much school--

after all, teachers and nurses have to go to work sick why not kids? (I wish we had more common sense!)

[Fireweed247]

19. This is why(one of the many reasons) we started homeschooling after my son went to kindergarten

He was getting sick all the time because other people sent their sick kids to school. I wouldn't do that though so the teachers were mad at me for having my kid out of school too much. The schools get their funding per child per day and they seem to find that more important than the health of children. It turned out he was learning more at home and the 'socialization' wasn't all it's cracked up to be so we're really happy homeschooling.

[MorningGlow]

38. I must admit we're thinking about it

I cannot believe how much school MG Jr. has missed this year. We're just fortunate that our elementary school doesn't bully families who keep sick kids home. One of the many times I called Jr. in sick I made some joking comment like "Just let us know when we get close to the sickday limit and Jr. is going to be expelled for excessive absences!" and the secretary said not to worry about it--other kids spent even more time out sick than our son.
:wow:

Do you belong to any social groups for homeschool kids? If left to his own devices, Jr. would be more than happy playing on his own, so because of his "loner" tendencies, I don't want homeschooling to turn him into a genius who can't make small talk or know how to share toys.
:rofl:

[mzmolly]

49. Believe me,

home-schooled children can make small talk. I know of several nieces and nephews and friends children who prove the social misfit theory wrong. ;) They're among the most social children I know.

I also know many social invalids who graduated from high school and beyond.

[MorningGlow]

51. Oh I agree

I'm just thinking in terms of MG Jr's incredible shyness and tendency to be a loner. Luckily he's not a future-serial-killer kind of loner, but I want to make sure he's in the company of other kids his age, all the same.
:rofl:

[mzmolly]

54. Plenty of ways

to accomplish company if you homeschool. In fact, my nieces and nephews have a much broader social network than most of the conventionally schooled children I know.

[MorningGlow]

55. I'm glad to hear that

I hear that homeschooled kids are far more socially mature for their ages than schoolkids, too. Hmm...now if I could just get Mr. MG to teach the kid math and science... (I know my limits! :D )

[ejpoeta]

67. i have thought of homeschooling, but i don't know. the kids never see any other

kids their own age except in school. and they drive me crazy as it is. LOL!

[Fumesucker]

28. That depends...

Single parent with a job that has a harsh absence policy, as outlined above, what do they do?

In an ideal world every parent with a sick child would be able to stay home and keep the kid home..

We don't live in anything approaching an ideal world.

[mzmolly]

31. At this point if I were such a parent, I'd point to the potential epidemic

and send my employer a copy of this article. However, the bottom line is (as you point out) we need a different set of priorities on a societal level.

[Fumesucker]

35. They probably don't believe the liberal media..

The employer, I mean..

I wish I was being facetious but I'm not.

[MorningGlow]

39. I understand

My mom was a single parent, and she was able to call on my grandparents anytime, as well as her sister in a pinch. I hated having a fever and lying on my grandparents' scratchy couch, but it beat my mom losing her job for staying home with me. As we move farther from our immediate families and have no support system, our society needs to take up the slack by being more understanding of single parents.

[Fumesucker]

43. I haven't been a single parent..

But I was a parent and now I'm a grandparent and I can easily see how overwhelming being a single parent can be in our society.

If it weren't for me taking care of my grandkids over the summers and during sickness and vacations my daughter probably couldn't work and her family's income would drop by a big percentage. Even losing one income would be a real hardship for them, to lose all income due to children is catastrophic.. And it happens all too often.

[MorningGlow]

53. Grandparents ROCK!

Mr. MG and I couldn't function without my mom--really and truly. And I'm fascinated by how many grandparents I see in my neighborhood taking care of small kids (too young for even preschool) every day. We may have lost our huge extended families, but grandparents play a huge role in raising little ones while both parents work.

[Fumesucker]

60. -blush-

Thanks.. :hug:

It's interesting to observe children again after your own are grown up, second time around you notice your perspective is a bit different, you know for sure they will be grown up all too soon.

[psychmommy]

81. heck yeah. single mom here.

my mom looks out for my kid after school. she goes with my dad in ga for the summer. don't know what i would do without them. cheers to all the grandparents helping their kids out with the grandkids.

[Sabriel]

36. I disagree

My son's class has plenty of parents (some single) who are pretty much forced to send sick kids to school. It's not a question of caring about their kids; it's a choice between being fired and staying home to take care of the child. Many factory/assembly/lower wage parents don't have the luxury of making that choice.

[MorningGlow]

40. Just posted about this (above)

But I was thinking about the times kids have serious illnesses (for instance, last month MG Jr. had a high fever for quite a few days on end and could only lie around the house)--what happens when these kids can't even lift their heads off the pillow to go to school? Are parents forced to send them to school anyway? Sounds inhumanly cruel.

[lostnfound]

71. Adding insult to injury is the makeup work afterward. Here's the pattern.

Kid gets sick. THe first day you are hoping it is nothing but a minor case of the sniffles (sometimes that's all it is). He goes to school. The next day it is obvious he really is sick. He stays home two or three days. If you are lucky, you miss work only two days because your spouse takes him one day. You pick up his schoolwork, he spends his every waking minute trying to catch up (homework + daily work) for the next week, even though he is still exhausted and still recovering, so you are trying to push him through another 30 minutes of makeup work while he is "whining" that he wants to go to bed early because he is tired. It sounds like "whining" because by the third day, the illness has caught up with YOU too. So you miss still three more days of work, after which you go back to work and try to catch up on everything you missed.

The overall effect of being shuffled off between caregivers and being forced through makeup work is a little different from the experience of hot-chicken-soup and plenty of stories that my own mom used to give me. :( Back then, you only made up major tests.

[mzmolly]

56. That needs to change.

I was fortunate enough to have an understanding employer when I was working full time.

[kas125]

57. At my kid's high school, you get a warning letter if your kid

misses three days. Miss another one and you get a sterner letter. A fifth day, and you get a letter that includes a threat to begin an investigation which could result in severe penalties, including removal of the child from your home. They sent that stuff to me for my honor student who had never missed without a doctor's note. And I had worked for the school corporation for ten years! I went to the school and had a screaming fit that they dared to threaten me and of course they said the letters are computer generated and they had no control over who gets them. But you can't just let your kids stay home anymore, even when they're sick.

[MorningGlow]

64. That is just wrong

So the school backed down when you gave 'em hell? I sure hope so. But who in the world implemented that policy? I was a high school teacher (albeit for a short time), and I was used to the school hunting down kids who skipped a lot of days, but to threaten kids who were sick and had a doctor's note...? What did they do with the students who have mono and have to be out for a couple of weeks?

[lostnfound]

73. Plus they HAVE to make up everything. It's crazy.

But hey, it prepares them for the "real world".

:eyes:

[RayOfHope]

65. Ohhhh, if only that were the case.

I teach preschool and kindergarten aged kids, and I can tell you plenty of kids come in sick. Some walk in the door with fevers, an many fevers crop up around lunch time, which is when the motrin/tylenol wear off. I do realize though that many parents have jobs that make it difficult for them to stay home with their sick kids.

[MorningGlow]

69. I call MG Jr's classroom "the petri dish"

I cannot believe how many plagues these kidlets have passed to one another during the course of the school year, including strep and some other really vicious illnesses. Jr. started getting sick the second week of school and hasn't quit yet--has spent more time getting sick, being sick, or recovering from being sick, than he has wholly well, happy, and engaged in his schoolwork. :(

What's weird is one of the school "floaters", a reading teacher, told me that there were specific classes where everybody was sick all year, and Jr. happened to be in one of those. (She also named one third-grade class and a...fifth-grade class, I think.) Greaaaat. Sick rooms? (There's been a lot of renovation going on while the kids are in school.) Or just luck of the draw with some Typhoid Marys and Harrys running around in those particular classes? I don't know...! :shrug:

[RayOfHope]

83. I teach special needs kiddos, and there are 2 that are ALWAYS sick. Always.

Not fevers necessarily, but constant runny noses and coughs. One little guy had a staph infection in his ear from his tube. One day 2 weeks ago it was oozing the nastiest green stuff you've ever seen. The school nurse had never seen anything like it. Mom didn't seem too concerned, but we were all thinking "STAPH in his EAR? Are you crazy? Get him to the dr ASAP!" (Mom had told me a couple weeks earlier they were battling staph in his left ear.

Last school year I had strep 4 times in 4 months, and I don't even have my tonsils. Petri dish is a very appropriate term!

[MorningGlow]

86. Oh EWWW

That's incredible! Of course, I'm not one to talk--MG Jr. has had a recent series of icks that are just mind-boggling. In fact, he went from virus to strep to another virus so fluidly that he had a steady fever for more than three weeks--which made him begin to get immune to Motrin, so we had to give him Tylenol during the day and longer-lasting Motrin at night, plus the pediatrician was so concerned that he ran blood tests for leukemia (negative, thank the gods). He was well for three whole weeks, including the several days we went to Florida, but we've been home about a week and guess what? Another virus, another fever, and he's home from school today. Luckily it's a lot milder than the last two rounds of virus-with-fever. But kee-rist, enough already!

[Fire1]

82. Hate to tell you but it happens regularly. The majority of

students in urban districts are from single family homes and that parent and/or grandparent has to work. Sick children commonly spend the entire day in the principal's office until the end of school. Some have to wait for older siblings to get out of school before they can go home. Others wait to be picked up by whomever the parent has listed on their approval list. More often than not that person doesn't arrive until the end of school or the parent instructs the child to go to some family member's house.

[fortyfeetunder]

11. Try telling that to institutions pushing perfect attendance

I am afraid there may be a population who will come to work or school sicker than snot just to earn that "no absences" award....

[mzmolly]

14. Indeed, we have the wrong priorities

at times.

[Posteritatis]

17. When I was in high school (97-99)...

My school would actually flunk students who missed more than a certain fairly low amount - seven days, ten days, something like that - in any particular class for any reason other than school business. (The unexcused absence limit was either one or two classes.) So people who were out for a week and a half on a trip or something were alright even if they weren't in the classroom, but a pedestrian who was laid up for two weeks because he fought a moving car and lost gets a string if Fs.

Place was a bit of a biowarfare facility at times as a result. Ugh.

[RoyGBiv]

27. Those policies are about money ...

... and they're insanely stupid.

They also happen to be unenforceable, but since most people don't know that and/or don't have the resources to fight it, the effect is the same. Kids go to school when they shouldn't. It's all based on a "threat" mentality, an attempt to force you to be at school to maintain funding levels.

My school district tried that crap on me when I was 14. I had pneumonia and was out for 14 days during a 9-week period, and they were going to give me all Fs for the period.

I was lucky in that I was a straight-A student and had kept up with my homework at home, and my parents were more easily able to point out the absurdity of it all. As it was we still had to go all the way to the state board of education with lawyers in tow, at which point they backed down.

[Occam Bandage]

15. I wish that would be obvious to all. nt

[Coventina]

18. This couldn't have come at a worse time, economically speaking.

Let me say up front that if you are sick, regardless of age, you SHOULD STAY HOME!

However, I wonder how many parents who are at risk of losing a job if they have to stay home with a sick child, will go ahead and send that child to school?

Let alone all the adults who don't want to take the risk of losing a job.

[mzmolly]

21. It's tough, but I think schools will have to call parents out of work?

Imagine if employers had a policy that sick people stay home for X number of days? How many fewer people would eventually take sick days? Then again, we have the issue of many an illness being contagious before it's apparent. :shrug:

[havocmom]

20. K & R

:kick:

[rainbow4321]

26. And for the kids who are kept home..if they are too young to stay by themselves?

I agree with what she says but, in reality, will the parents of younger kids be able to get off of work to be with the sick child??
What we are looking at here is the possibility of uncaring/crappy employers giving parents a hard time for taking days off..depending on how long it takes for the symptoms/fever to subside, these parents may be off for several days straight.
Been there, done that when my kids were too little to stay home..single mom, no relatives in-state, sick kid, crappy employer who doesn't care that your kid is sick and can't be left alone.

Shit, what a mess this is going to be.

[mzmolly]

29. This is where we need additional action.

We need to support parents staying home with sick children. And for that matter, sick adults staying home from work.

[NutmegYankee]

34. It sucks doesn't it?

I don't have kids, and work for an employer (not to named for obvious internet reasons) who gives decent sick leave. When a fellow engineer needs to stay home with his or her kids, those of us who are single gladly step in and take up the slack. It's part of being a member of the community. However, when I lived back in Virginia, the employer would berate the parent and their fellow co-workers would pile on because they resented "being forced to work because the other guy chose to have children". Maybe it's the rural New England versus Urban Washington, D.C. attitude? All I remember is how sickened I was at that attitude.

[Occulus]

84. I don't have kids and work for USPS as a full-time regular employee

Come and get me, managers. Our local will wipe the floor with you.

Anyway, we now have a jackass called the "Attendance Control Officer". His job is to shame people who get sick. He pulls us into a little, bare-walled room with a computer and a filing cabinet and shames us with the blots on our Form 3972 (that's the two-year-long attendance form), then he makes us sign something and maybe gives us a sternly-worded letter. It's actually laughable- he insists that we aren't allowed to use more than four sick days in a single contiguous six-month period.

We earn our sick leave alongside our pay, and it's in the union contract. Funny thing, though: the contract only says employees need to be "regular" in our attendance; there's no hard-and-fast number involved. So basically, he can go pound sand, and I'm sorely tempted to tell him that to his face, and maybe hand him a few "swine flu" articles.

"Can you show me the clause in the contract establishing this number? No? Well, can you show me the place in the contract where the Attendance Control Officer's position is established, and given power to set a hard-and-fast number?

No?

Well, then, this conversation is over, and you can have a pleasant day."

We. Handle. The mail. The USPS is a very obvious possible vector for disease transmission, and this pompous fuck is trying to shame us with our illnesses.

Jackass....

[CatsDogsBabies]

37. sick child daycare

just looked and there is such a thing

http://www.allbusiness.com/public-administration/administration-human/3995571-1.html

[uppityperson]

42. And if YOU are sick, you shouldn't go to work or out in public places

I really wish more schools and employers would accept this as a positive thing. Isolate yourself until you are not sick rather than spreading it all around.

[shanti]

45. my boss

the "company man" already did that last week! :mad: it's not the first time, and it pisses me off to no end!

[uppityperson]

48. "we've already been exposed" excuse wears thin. No, you might not have and

everyone here might not have.

[shanti]

44. likewise for people in the workforce!

especially managers!! :grr: i hate when people feel they have to be martyrs and go to work sick, infecting everyone else!

[Arkansas Granny]

46. I couldn't have sent my kids to school sick even if I had tried. The school

system had a policy to call parents to come pick up any child who is running a fever, even a low grade one, or appears sick.

[LWolf]

62. That's standard policy in every school I've ever taught in. nt

[Starry Messenger]

50. I wish that was always the rule.

I'm a teacher who is down with some medieval virus some of the students brought back to class. My sub was sick too, so I had to teach. Ugh. </cough>

[1776Forever]

58. I just posted this update for CDC site email alerts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5539734&mesg_id=5539734

[The Backlash Cometh]

59. What is the incubation period?

24 to 48 hours means that it will be easier to identify your exposure. But, I don't understand why China has extended this to two weeks for their policy?

[mzmolly]

70. I think it really varies from person to person.

Children are said to be contagious longer. But again, it surely can vary from person to person.

[LWolf]

61. Keeping kids home from school when they are sick

is supposed to be standard practice. :shrug:

[depakid]

63. One would think that this would be common sense irrespective of the current situation

[mzmolly]

72. One would certainly think.

But unfortunately ...

[ejpoeta]

66. if my kid is sick with a fever or flu like symptoms, i tend not to send them to school.

though, the benchmark tends to be temperature or vomitting. so...

[GreenPartyVoter]

78. This has been school policy as long as I can remember. Don't send sick kids to school.