Joan Walsh & David Frum on CNN's Reliable Sources

[underpants]

WALSH: You know, I couldn't disagree more with my friend Chris. This is not a "he said/she said" situation. This is torture. Torture is illegal. We don't sit here, Howie, and say he said murder is illegal, but she said, well, sometimes murder's not so bad. These are clear matters of law.

Ronald Reagan signed the 1988 U.N. Convention Against Torture where we committed ourselves to prosecuting people who torture. It's the law. It's super clear. It's not a partisan witch hunt or a "she said/he said" situation.

KURTZ: David Frum.

FRUM: It's not super clear, because the key piece of information people need, most people need to make a decision, is missing. Look, there's a hard core of civil libertarians who will say, I don't care whether this contributed to the defense of the country. Forget it, we won't do it, even if it means Americans die. And then there are some people who say, I support the president no matter what.

But most people want to know, did this contribute to the nation's safety? If so, we'll come to one judgment. If it was wasteful, as it's sometimes alleged, and achieved nothing, then we all condemn it. That's the thing we need to know, and that's the thing we don't know. That's the missing piece in all the reportage.

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: No, it's illegal, whether it works or not. It's illegal whether it works or not, David.

FRUM: Well, as I said, there's a small minority who would feel like Joan does.

WALSH: Oh, really?

FRUM: Most people want to know, did it -- and that is the missing or the contradicted piece. We don't have a clear answer to that question.

WALSH: It doesn't matter.

CILLIZZA: Howie, I just want to...

KURTZ: Chris.

CILLIZZA: Joan, just real quickly, I just want to point out, in our poll that came our this morning, 49 percent of people said no torture under any circumstances; 48 percent, in some special circumstances, depending on the information. That's not my opinion.

(CROSSTALK)

WALSH: But Chris, the point is it's illegal. In what instance does it matter that 80 percent of Americans would like to murder Dick Cheney? Does that -- would that make it legal? It's not a matter of opinion. It's law.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/joan-walsh-torture-illegal-whether-it-work

[malaise]

1. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

WALSH: But Chris, the point is it's illegal. In what instance does it matter that 80 percent of Americans would like to murder Dick Cheney? Does that -- would that make it legal? It's not a matter of opinion. It's law.


And it would make everyone safer. :evilgrin:

[underpants]

4. I would bet that this will be twisted on talk radio, then Drudge, then Politico, then Fox & MSM

But you know what...as Bill Kristol said today

BRING IT ON

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=303838&mesg_id=303838

[csziggy]

2. She was great on that! The only thing she could have done is talk louder

Since the men just kept talking over her.

And we need to keep repeating her line, "In what instance does it matter that 80 percent of Americans would like to murder Dick Cheney? Does that -- would that make it legal? It's not a matter of opinion. It's law." :applause:

[ixion]

3. "It's not a matter of opinion. It's law."

That's it. End of discussion. Let the war crimes trials begin.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. I would like to take David Frum's

fat face in my hands and go all Tony Soprano on it. Big time. I could do it, too. I know I could. With great ease.

The horrible, absolutely horrible part of this is the obvious - that people are sitting around saying that torture is all right.

They are saying that there's nothing wrong with torturing people.

How the FUCK did they arrive at that conclusion? Who taught them that, and why do they keep maintaining it?

Joan Walsh is great.

Imagine. There is a DEBATE about whether or not torture is wrong. And people are defending it!

We've finally fallen down the biggest rabbit hole ever ..........

[underpants]

6. Frum got fired for his wife's emails

He wrote "Axis of Exil" and his wife sent around an email (understandably) trumpeting her husband

You can't overstand THE MAN even in informal emails in that world. Frum got the axe the next day

Richard Perle brought him back to the party and reintroduced him by having Frum author a book for him

Maybe Frum et al are just letting us know what it is like in their soul to simply continue with this for a paycheck

I would not condone violence so I will stop typing now ;-)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

8. And he's Canadian,

presumably naturalized here now, but I have just enough chauvinism in me - ah, my immigrant grandparents would smack me for this - to think, "Who the fuck cares what you think? You're not really one of us."

I hate people who drag me down to that kind of thinking. Frum does it, though.

So, it was Perle who resurrected him? Another reason to fucking LOVE Richard Perle, another one whose face needs to be delivered into my strong and sure hands.

They are defending torture. I feel like I've gone insane.

If I did it, you'd condone violence, because you'd so approve of my victims ................... :)

[underpants]

9. An End to Evil: How to Win the War on Terror

by David Frum (Author), Richard Perle (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/End-Evil-How-Win-Terror/dp/1400061946



Twilight of the Neocons
Richard Perle has begun to panic.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0403.clarke.html

[IDemo]

7. Bank robbery supplies income for the robber and job security for cops

Let's wait and see how Americans feel about it before passing judgment on bank robbers.

:wtf: