Were They Taking Pictures of Panic, Air Force One, The F-16's or Scenery?

[tekisui]

What was the purpose of the 'photo shoot'?

If that is the story they are going to try and sell, what was the purpose of the photo shoot?

Why did Air Force One need to be involved?

Why were two fighter jets 'escorting' AF1?

Were they taking photos of the panicked people?

WTF was going on?

[Marr]

1. Huh?

I need some context.

[annabanana]

3. here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5543497

[tekisui]

4. Sorry, see these threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5543908&mesg_id=5543908

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8373081&mesg_id=8373081

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=304095&mesg_id=304095

[Mz Pip]

8. Oh thanks!

I didn't know about this. :hi:

[annabanana]

2. THOSE are the questions I'd be interested in too...

It just seems an odd use of a Gov't plane..

[tekisui]

5. Odd use of Presidential plane.

Very odd. One thing is certain, we aren't getting the full story.

[Why Syzygy]

12. It wasn't Air Force One ..

She said the flight involved a VC-25, a Defense Department version of the 747 that is called Air Force One when the president is aboard, and an Air Force F-16 jet fighter. They flew over the upper New York Bay and Newark Bay between 10 a.m. and 10:30 a.m.

... Also a COMBO of "training" and "photo op"? Strangeness.

NEW YORK (AP) — A Boeing 747 used by the president was escorted over lower Manhattan by an Air Force fighter jet Monday as part of a government photo opportunity and training mission, causing a brief panic among office workers near ground zero.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jQCKDUYswf9K9lMjX4oxtDxHVqXQD97QVAJO0

edit: Guess I'm confused. It's only called AF1 if the President is aboard? What is a "VC-25"?

[tekisui]

14. It's only called AF1 when the President is onboard, correct?

Did it carry the Presidential seal, at the time?

[Why Syzygy]

21. Didn't know that.

edited my post. VERY strange. I would think they discourage photography of that plane.

[JHB]

25. Correct: AF1 is the designation for whatever AF plane the president is on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One
Air Force One is the air traffic control call sign of any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the President of the United States.<1> Since 1990, the presidential fleet has consisted of two specifically configured, highly customized Boeing 747-200B series aircraft – tail codes Special Air Mission (SAM) "28000" and SAM "29000" – with Air Force designation "VC-25A". While these aircraft are referred to as "Air Force One" only while the president is on board, the term is commonly used to describe either of the two aircraft normally used and maintained by the U.S. Air Force solely for the president.

[rrneck]

42. And this, of course, is Segway 1

[beac]

73. Yup. Segway: 1, Bush: 0

And the top photo is of Kennebunkport's annual Parade of Turds.

[tekisui]

28. It did have the Presidential Seal at the time.

[Obamanaut]

49. Is it part of the paint job? nt

[tekisui]

51. I think so.

Just pointing out that it is AF1 ready.

[TorchTheWitch]

58. It's only AF1 when the pres is onboard

ANY aircraft becomes AF1 if the pres is onboard. There are two presidential aircraft that have the pres seal and painted nifty colors. There is the main plane that is usually used and a secondary plane that is used when for whatever reason (like maintenance) is out of commission. From what I've heard, the secondary presidential plane (with the seal and the nice colors) was the aircraft used for this mission. Calling either of the presidential planes AF1 is not appropriate when the pres is not onboard.

This is actually a mission as the planes were being used to film the planes in the air for some sort of advertisement put out by the government. Much the same thing was done before (not by the Obama government) when the plane was filmed with the Grand Canyon as the backdrop. I wasn't a photo opportunity because the pres or some other administration big wig wasn't involved, the media wasn't involved, and the general public wasn't involved (for filming purposes anyway). A photo op is when the pres or some other administration big wig goes to an area for the purpose of mingling with the people, and the media is invited to film it. Examples of a pres photo op is when Bush went to NYC and stood on a pile of rubble so the news media could film him looking like he was doing something. Same thing with the aftermath of Katrina when he mingled with rescue personal and the locals.

[Graybeard]

20. This could have been done with CGI, why use real planes?

Any sort of "training film" or whatever they say they were doing can now easily be reproduced using computer technology. And if they insisted on using real planes they could have done it in an isolated location and inserted the NYC skyline and Statue Of Liberty with computers.

[TorchTheWitch]

69. Because someone was too dumb to consider that

They do this all the time with real planes and other aircraft all over the country. Someone was just too stupid to consider that NYC was probably not a good location to do one of these, and were especially stupid to not make sure the public and the media were prepared for it. Stupidity abounds in governments.

[Mz Pip]

6. I think F-16s routinely

escort AF-1. That is not that unusual. I'm not sure about the other stuff. What "photo shoot" are you talking about?

[tekisui]

9. The FAA and NYPD knew that

A back-up AF1(Obama not on board) and the jets would be circling low in Manhattan today, but were instructed to not tell the public. People panic and evacuated buildings thinking it was a hijacking. THe story given was that it was a military planned photo shot.

Very bizarre. Links up thread.

[adiabatic]

15. Where did you hear they were 'instructed' not to tell the public?

?

[tekisui]

19. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8373081&mesg_id=8373081

[adiabatic]

36. Okay, it's a 3rd hand report...I certainly agree the whole thing is bizarre, but the FAA

has no authority over the NYPD wrt public information...they cay say whatever they want. Also there's no particular reason to need special clearance to fly over the Statue of Liberty...it's not in restricted airspace.

If NYPD knew about it in advance, they should have informed all the media. The whole thing is just beyond weird.
:shrug:

[Canuckistanian]

7. Why did they need shots of the plane with the Statue of Liberty?

You can do the same thing with Photoshop these days and NOT frighten the wits out of the population.

[tekisui]

10. Is that the story? That they wanted AF1 and the Statue of Liberty?

For what?

I'm not buying it yet.

[Canuckistanian]

47. I read that somewhere earlier

The Statue of Liberty would make an unmistakable picture of NYC.

My guess is that they were making a video - it would be harder to fake.

[seemslikeadream]

48. it would be harder to fake

not if you talk to some people ;)

[Sebastian Doyle]

68. I'm not excusing this fucked up misadventure at all, but a photoshop fake would have been worse

Because the goddamn Freepers would have been all over it "THIS PICSHURE IS FAKE, JUST LIKE HIS BERTH CIRTIFICUT !1!1!1!!"

[Better Believe It]

11. White House Press Secretary Gibbs: "I have no information on this"

White House Press Secretary Gibbs: "I have no information on this"

He first said he had seen news reports on it but had "no information on this".

Sure he doesn't!

[tekisui]

13. Somebody didn't think this through.

It's hard not to speculate about what the purpose was.

[hedgehog]

18. Are you implying that anyone in the Obama White House would

approve of this cluster if they'd been informed beforehand?

[tekisui]

23. If not, it was purely DoD, right?

[adiabatic]

39. The exercise probably wasn't engineered by some AF Captain

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. They did it to sodomize my imagination.

[Beacool]

17. Damn idiots at the FAA!!!!!

Don't they realize how traumatized NYC still is over 9/11????

People were running around all over the place. We didn't evacuate because they warned us about it at the last minute. But, being on a high floor, the planes went by our windows.

Stupid, STUPID!!!!!!

:grr:

[tekisui]

24. And who ordered it? The DoD?

[Beacool]

29. They said the military, whatever that means

Apparently, the FAA had informed the local authorities but requested that the info. not be released to the media and public. I would like to get my hands on the jerk that came up with that idea!!! Bunch of a-holes!!! People on both sides of the Hudson were running out of their buildings. I could hear ambulances and police from my floor. Someone who did go out said that a pregnant woman needed treatment.

People were running out of the exchanges, the Wall Street Journal and a myriad other buildings. And all for what, a photo op??????????

x(

[tekisui]

30. Makes me think the photo they were after was a panicked city.

[Beacool]

35. Well, then they achieved their goal!!

Bunch of inconsiderate assholes!!!!!!

;(

[adiabatic]

37. I can't imagine the local authorities even THINKING of honoring such a 'request'.

Looks like there's plenty blame to go around here.
:eyes:

[Beacool]

40. Believe it, people are already demanding answers.

Of all the callous things to do, after everything this area has gone through!!!

:crazy:

[adiabatic]

41. Hell, I'm pretty old & jaded, seen lotsa weird shit but if I'd been in NYC and seen that

I definitely would have soiled my shorts.
:scared: :silly: :grr:

[bkkyosemite]

22. Now what was their reason. There was a reason. We need Transperancy!

We need to contact the White House and ask the question WHY?


Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]

[bkkyosemite]

26. I emailed this to the White House

'WHY DID A AIR FORCE ONE DUMMY PLANE FLY OVER NYC WITH ESCORT AND SCARE THE HELL OUT OF THE PUBLIC THIS MORNING ........*****.WE NEED TRANSPERANCY!!!******'

[tekisui]

27. E-mail the DoD, too.

The White House *may* have had nothing to do with it. No one knows, yet.

[dgibby]

31. CNN is reporting that the plane is an "AF1 look-alike".

[tekisui]

33. Pictures show the Presidential Seal. It is only called AF1 if the POTUS

is on board. It is one that could serve and likely does serve as AF1.

[ieoeja]

32. Let's pretend for a second they are telling the truth.

Then we have the public relations team taking photos of "Air Force 1" escorted by fighter jets with the Statue of Liberty and New York skyline serving as a dramatic backdrop. Local officials were alerted in advance and told, "if questioned, do not comment, just refer the question to us."

Note: If someone asked me anything about my employer, for example, what brand of soft drink machines we have in the office, I am supposed to refer the questioner to PR because we might be using one brand while having another brand as a customer**.

So NYPD was told not to talk to anyone about this because this is being done by PR for PR and that is standard PR doctrine.


**I pick this example because it so happens that we DO have one brand in our office while having another as our customer. Someone at work not knowing this, or not considering the possible embarrassment this could be for our customer, could make a mistake that could lose us that customer.

[Seen the light]

34. Whoever approved this needs to be fired

[CoffeeCat]

38. Yeah, I know it's tin-foil-y...but...

...who would gain from this action?

Who is angry right now?

Who would have incentive to remind people that their talons still reach far into the government in
this country...and that they can make things happen by using their friends (or shall we call them
'left behinds'?) in the DOD or the Pentagon?

This wasn't to frighten the people on the ground. We are mere insects to this crowd. We're not
the target audience. The current administration was.

This was someone baring their teeth.

[Karenina]

44. Indeed! Such a shot is so easily photoshopped.

Want some Dr. Pepper? :popcorn:

[grasswire]

54. I think of this as a warning...

....from one of Cheney's "stay-behinds" -- someone who wanted to induce some fear, or wanted the Obama administration to be embarrassed. Somethin's up with this.

[CoffeeCat]

59. I agree...

...I think it was a move to remind Obama that while he may be President--that he's not always
in charge. And if he continues to piss off the neocon wolves with this torture stuff, then
he's going to find out just how in-charge they are--and how they can destroy him and his
Presidency any time the whim strikes them.

[Echo In Light]

75. Strange days as always in the US of A

[KoKo]

61. Anyone else think this should be investigated further?

Obama issued a vigorous apology...but the questions of why AF-2 is flying around for a photo op still aren't clear. What about the cost of fuel? Is this "waste in government?" What about the junior person who apparently issued the orders. And, why do this on the day the media is all hyped up about Swine Flu. It's just so reminiscent of how the Bush Govt. worked with Chertoff and Asscroft with terra alerts and bird flue hysteria.

I hope Obama will investigate this because it would seem to me someone was working against him with this stunt. :shrug:

[grasswire]

63. that "junior person" is the former Secretary of the Army (eom)

[KoKo]

65. No it was a "kid" below him who was in charge of notifying NYC/Jersey...

He must be an idiot..that kid.

[nc4bo]

70. Does anyone else think it just a little bit odd that NewsMax would advertise its 911 aka 9/11 radio

during the Rachel Maddow show this evening? Was I the only one who saw that tonight?

Funny how NEWSMAX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewsMax_Media) would time their carefully worded Terror Alert Emergency Radio commercial to correspond to the exact portion of the show where Rachel Maddow discussed the flyover?

Product found here: http://shop.newsmax.com/shop/index.cfm?page=products&productid=385

NEWSMAX!? :wtf:

I am sorry but something really stinks here and if this caught the O Admin. by as much surprise as it did NYC, then the Pres. better damn sure get to the bottom of it and fast.

:tinfoilhat:

[Carni]

43. Why would they want a photo of AF1 buzzing NY???

That is about the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard of...is it possible that this was done for a movie of some kind? WTF? Makes no sense!

[yy4me]

45. What a dumb, stupid, inconsiderate stunt. Someone needs to

be held accountable for this useless waste of time and money. Whoever pulled off this stunt certainly has no brain. Anyone think ahead? It could not have been for a photo op, that makes no sense with Photo-shop available. How could they (DOD?) be so stupid to frighten everyone is such a horrible way. I bet there will be some nightmares tonight because of this idiotic show of disregard.

[chill_wind]

46. MSNBC (link)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30434584/

[KoKo]

50. OMG...that's a good read...Snarky Article...says much of it...

Jumbo Jet, F-16 Buzz Lady Liberty, Put New York on Edge

The title alone...

[chill_wind]

52. Video - very understandable panic

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Video_Shows_Panic_When_Plane_Buzzes_NYC_New_York.html

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

62. First time I've viewed the video. Crying and shaking here.

What a stupid thing to do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. The AF does this every so often

with not only AF 1

See the photos are used by the AF for propaganda, and PR campaigns

No ill thinking here, beyond the fact they should have asked the USN why they have to warn folks in Hawaii every time there is another rendition of Tora Tora Tora

[KoKo]

55. Well...I did wonder why they wanted video of AF-2 followed by Fighter Jet over Manhattan...

But, so far..no one has asked. I take your post that they were going to use it for something..But, I had hoped Obama Administration wouldn't subject us to Chertoff or Karen Hughes/Karl Rove type stuff.

Frankly, I thought Cheney ordered it since he's been trying to say Obama is not keeping us safe. And if a plane can fly around as "Air Force II with Fighter Jet" and the public isn't informed, the powerfully connected Mayor of NY says he wasn't informed ...and thousands are terrified once again after living through "9/11" or having lost friends or relatives there and we are fighting TWO WARS over that even...then it would seem to be important that Obama Admin. is sending AF-2 in for a "Photo Op" yet the "People" are not to be told about it.

It's really OTT...

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Probably more in the line of the photos the AF takes

there are some gorgeous ones

My fav a C-5 deploying all the defenses for heat seekers

Plane coming out of a cloud of white things coming out

[chill_wind]

57. Louis Caldera, what's the deal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Caldera

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

64. Looking at the History tab, people have been busy patching it this way et that. nt

[chill_wind]

71. You're right! Wow.

He could be the greatest stand-up guy in the whole world, but this whole thing still makes no more sense three days later.. NONE! It's bizarre beyond words.

[lovuian]

60. I think this was a set up for possible

trouble for Obama that he didn't know this tells you that there are forces in government that are still under Cheney & Bush

[KoKo]

66. It would seem to be that, logically. For those of us who've been here watching

this crap from Bushies for long time, like you and me and others. It's suspicious. And we know Obama isn't up to full power with his appointments and that Rove/Cheney did leave moles everywhere. Even the Clintons had Moles that probably are still embedded who worked for Bush I. Look at how Clinton was treated. Remember that private airplane that flew into the WH in his first 100 days of a few months after he was elected. The RW really ran with that one saying he was incompetent by not protecting the WH from private planes veering off course.

[TorchTheWitch]

67. That's ridiculous

They do this all the time in various places all over the country for their nifty little PR films. There's a nice one of the plane with the Grand Canyon in the background. It was just really stupid to let this one happen in NYC especially without making sure the public and media were aware. Thinking this has anything to do with Bush/Cheney is about as tinfoil as it gets.

[JHB]

72. It's not tinfoil to consider it a leftover...

B/C made tight information the standard operating procedure, and my guess is that some of that was still in effect when they took the "keep it quiet under penalty of law" stance towards the police and other local authorities.

Certainly the "priority for propaganda" attitude has held over. Someone with half a brain might have tried to schedule it for the 4th of July or some other occasion where air shows or low flybys are pretty much expected as part of the festivities.

[JVS]

74. Wow, what a great concept for a calender photo: watch our people flee in terror at our presence!