I find it extraordinarily frustrating to hear nothing but vague concepts about health care reform

[Stinky The Clown]

Maybe I'm tone deaf. Maybe I'm a fawning lefty. Maybe I'm a moron.

But all I hear are platitudes and vague 'feel good' terms like electronic record keeping and 'affordable health care' and 'down payment for the future'.

This country wants universal health care.

Why is that so hard?

[cali]

1. Maybe you should read specific plans

and no, I don't think it's nearly as simple as you make it out to be.

[TwilightZone]

2. Why is that so hard?

Lobbyists?

HMOs?

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. FOLLOW THE MONEY

but this flu epidemic might make Americans wake up and realize it is up to us

Sanders said as much yesterday, not about swine flu but single payer, we need to demand it

[RadicalTexan]

9. Ding, ding. ding!

$$$

[Ian David]

4. What we need is a paradigm shift to create synergy between the consumer and healthcare providers.

Does that help?

[jtrockville]

5. Well, while we're venting... here's my frustration:

I get frustrated with the confluence of health CARE and health INSURANCE.

I strongly feel health insurance is a scam. I would like to see the concept, as we know it in the US, eliminated.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Yes, and I see it right here, where poeple should know better

[enlightenment]

7. It's not hard - it's just that TPTB don't want

single-payer health care. So we won't get it. We'll get something that may improve some aspect of the current process, but it won't fundamentally change the current 'you get what you can pay for' model. No effort has been made to effectively balance the rhetoric from the right - 'socialism' (oogabooga!!); higher taxes; lack of choice - so many, many people believe that single-payer is a bad thing. If TPTB wanted to really push for that solution, they would be making a concerted effort to counteract the rhetoric.

They're not making that effort.

[Coyote_Bandit]

8. The only people I see

who are directly invested in pursuing health care reform are those who have been directly impacted because they or someone close to them needed health care and was unable to get it.

There are lots of other people who like to talk about the need for health care reform. But we all know that talk is cheap. It is time for our leaders to put up or shut up. Unfortunatley, they all (with the excdeption of Teddy Kennedy) appear to be far more interested in their political power and political future. I'm not holding my breath in expectation of any kind of meaningful health care reform.

I'm telling everyone now that if I infect them with the swine flu it will be unintentional. I likely will not even know that I have it. Haven't seen a doctor for any reason in over a decade. Don't expect to see one unless I am seriously injured or deathly ill. There are another 50 million (1 in 6) Americans like me. A reasonably intelligent society facing a potential pandemic just might be frightened by that prospect. Not here.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. I'd love to see the media keep talking about this swine flu thing until the people are in panic

MAYBE that will wake a few more people from their political slumber.

[Coyote_Bandit]

11. Thing is

the media assume folks who need medical care can get it. I've yet to hear any media commentary regarding swine flu that references uninsured Americans and how lack of meaningful access to health care just might contribute to a possible pandemic.

Meanwhile I know folks who did not have and could not get health insurance who have been refused health care for a chronic documented easily confirmed condition - even when they offered to prepay all of the total expected expenses (office call and all diagnostic expenses). That kind of crap ought to be criminalized.

[stillcool]

12. I think there are 3 bills in Congress..

right now..single payer bills. Conyers, Sanders, and another Senator but I can't remember the name. Maybe the language of those bills might provide some insight?

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Unless they get administration imprimateur, they're meaningless.

[stillcool]

17. Sorry..I thought the language in them..

might be helpful.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. Sorry ..... you're right ... as a model, they serve a real purpose.

But unless the administration gets behind this and "bully pulpits" it, it won't happen.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. The president, however, wants electronic record keeping and

affordable health insurance.

He never ran on UHC, and the only way we are going to get it is to make sure he KNOWS his half-measures are not enough.

It would help if we could come up with alternative employment for 250,000 health insurance company employees who I would LOVE to put out of work.

[TayTay]

14. Universal Health Care is a platitude

What does that mean? Will there be mandates to get everyone into the system? Will their be tiers of service and pricing? Will preventative medicine to encourage good habits be encouraged? Will there be a limit on deductibles based on ability to pay?

Health Care is enormously complicated and is going to be a really interesting fight. No one is going to be totally happy with it or unhappy with it, I bet.

[Greyhound]

15. That's funny because the hundreds of millions of people that live in civilized nations that do have

universal health care seem to be very happy with it and have no problem identifying it.

Most of them think there is something wrong with us for even having to debate this.

[TayTay]

19. Single-payor or universal health care?

How do we get there? How will be pay for it? Who will get it? Will this result in a rationing of certain types of services in favor of prevention? (Important question -- what are we paying for and what is the emphasis of the system.)

Everyone wants this, that is a bit of a non-argument and a strawman. How do we get there?

[area51]

21. You bring up an interesting point,

when you mention the specter of rationing. But we already have rationing of healthcare, based on one's personal wealth.

[Greyhound]

22. In answer to the last question, HR 676.

Rationing is merely the scare tactic currently in favor with the reich-wing, it already happens every day and is much worse than necessary due to supporting the obscene profits of the parasite industry.

Single payer vs. universal health care is a false dichotomy, health care access and delivery is one issue and where the bills go and how much is paid is another.

[TayTay]

23. Not rationing so much as emphasis

Although I think we have de facto rationing now through price and I think we can do better.

We practice defensive medicine. There are a lot of reasons for that. I think we should practice more preventive care and cover more things that are under the umbrella of wellness. If that sounds like rationing, then I guess we have a difference of opinion on the merits here.

Again, what does the phrase Universal Health Care mean in practice?

[Greyhound]

25. Again, only Americans seem to have a problem defining this very basic concept.

u⋅ni⋅ver⋅sal - applicable everywhere or in all cases; general | affecting, concerning, or involving all.

health⋅care - the field concerned with the maintenance or restoration of the health of the body or mind.

[TayTay]

27. How is it going to be paid for?

That is the central question.

There are lots of possible systems that will get us to universal health care.

What are you in favor of, what things do you propose to rearrange for this and how do you propose to pay for it. Again, everyone wants universal health care coverage. But to say you want it and then walk away from the discussion about how to get there is disingenuous.

There is no longer a discussion about the fact that the Dems want this, now how do we do it?

[Greyhound]

28. HR 676 and we're already paying more than enough to cover the additional

recipients.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00676:

[TayTay]

29. So you basically have no clue

Don't care to find out and view debate on this as beneath you.

And people wonder why it's difficult to get programs passed.

You know, talking about something often helps to answer questions, alleviate fear and promote progress. No wonder it's so hard to get anything progressive passed. The people who should be bending over backwards to explain the changes they want find actual conversation beneath them and some how dirty.

Sigh! I don't think some people will ever learn.

[Kansas Wyatt]

18. THROW THE INSURANCE COMPANIES OUT THE WINDOW!

Or throw the worthless piece of shit Death Merchants under the bus... Back the bus over them, then drive over them again.

Until Insurance Companies (Death Merchants) are thrown out, meaningful reform of "HEALTH CARE" will never happen. Death Merchants do NOTHING for health care, and only facilitate misery and death. As someone who has had a pre-existing condition their whole life, I know for a FACT that Insurance Companies are greedy bastards who only want to steal your wallet, and do not give a fuck about any client's "health care." Their only concern is collecting your money, while never paying for anything.

Next up: Pharmaceutical Companies... Sorry, I'm already too pissed off to continue, but you bastards deserve no better treatment than the Death Merchants.

[SOS]

24. Destroy the death merchants in the marketplace

Allow a Medicare buy-in for all Americans.
The parasites will die off quickly.

[WillowTree]

26. I've always wondered about that.

If insurance companies "never pay for anything", why does anyone buy it? Curious.......