Spanking Kids? What are your views?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

Poll question: Spanking Kids? What are your views?

I saw this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5559634 and I thought back on comments I have seen here about spanking and other forms of corporal punishment - I know it is a hot button issue so I ask that a civil discussion doesn't turn into a flame war...

I have 2 children. A son who is 9 and an 8 year old daughter. I have never employed corporal punishment - I was abused as a child and I never wanted to go down that path with my own children.

Most people that I know do use spanking. I am appalled by this since the range is so broad- The fundees down the block use "the rod" or a flat paddle to "correct bad behavior" http://www.spare-rods.com/ --- I know a woman who uses a belt to spank her little boy - he was born missing a hand and has 3 fingers on his other hand - he also is missing a leg - he is under sized for his age and is hyperactive - the poor kid gets the belt for just being the way he is... It infuriates me.

My kids, who have not been spanked, are well behaved and polite. I am often complimented - I know I am fortunate but I also have had challenges - my son has Asperger's - he is very bright and says anything that pops into his head - But would I smack him or spank him for this behavior? Fucking hell no. I do explain to him why he shouldn't do some of the stuff he does and I have had professional counseling for him (and us) too. But as a person who was severely abused by a whack-job of a mother, I personally could never hit my kids.

Image below is "The Rod" which is used to beat children - looks like a riding crop to me.

[Debi]

1. More Cowbell? What this poll needs is more popcorn

:popcorn:

[aikoaiko]

2. in

[cali]

3. never spanked

not even to get my very active and into everything son's attention. I have a real visceral dislike of hitting a child. On the other hand, I've known some people who I think of as very good, loving parents who have spanked their kids, but they're all people who did it very rarely and not in some creepy ritualized way- a swat on the butt type of thing.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

9. I agree Cali

One of my best friends will get out her wooden spoon and smack her kids on the butt when they really test her patience - But I do not consider her abusive - Her kids don't flinch when I wave at them... I think she is a good Mom and I know she wouldn't ever hit one of my kids even if she wanted to. Her kids range in age from 6 to 13 (she has 3 kids) - They are at my house several times a week and I never get the feeling that these kids are abused.

[jtrockville]

4. "Simply put"

Here's what spanking demonstrates: If someone doesn't do as you wish, it's ok to resort to violence. And as we all know: violence begets violence.

Having said that, I've done it on a few occasions (hey - no one's perfect!). I did apologize to my child afterward for having "behaved badly", because I think I did. Then we talked about our bad behavior (BOTH of us) and how we should have behaved instead.

It was over a decade ago. I STILL feel bad, lol.

[SacredCow]

5. Best of luck with this not turning into a flame-fest....

I was spanked every so often as a kid, and I don't think it damaged me horrifically. However, with my own child (who just turned 7), I haven't resorted to spanking.

I think it's a personal matter; however, it's a road that I choose not to take- partially because there's an indefinite line where spanking becomes abuse. I would not be able to live with myself if I ever came close to that line with my son.

[seabeyond]

6. i dont spank. my parents spanked and older used belt. i did not feel it was abuse.

it worked for me, not two brothers. not using a belt would probably have worked for me (i didnt get it often) and not worked with brothers.

i understand the spanking theory, but i see teaching, talking, building foundation adn other means to be much more long term good choice making for children than doing right out of fear.

a surprise to me was fundamentalist assuring me they use something to spank for disconnect, so child knows not person, they are still loved, never with hand

on the other hand

i say, if you do, should use the hand, so not disconnect and you equally feel the pain

[dorkus erectus]

51. Could you explain to me what the "spanking theory" is and how it "worked" for you?

This is the only thing I think spanking/hitting does: intimidates a child. Some children are more easily intimidated than others. But when you think of the most violent, hard-to-manage older kids, chances are that 95% of them were hit or beaten. Because they finally got to an age where they were bigger than the parent (and many times it's a mother trying to control things and no father around).

[seabeyond]

54. physical pain was enough repercussion for me to not do something to experience it.

the fear helped to keep me honest so to speak.

but as you see in my post i dont agree that it is effective. you point being one of the reasons, but others is, the kid just learns to lie or be sneaky. the way i raised the kids may have taken longer for results, but i think they are more lasting cause it was teaching them to think thru repercussions and make good choices which will serve them well in later years. i dont think spanking give that to a child.

[dorkus erectus]

56. Good...Yes, it's better to discuss what you are displeased about...

I just think some people are control freaks and if things don't happen the way they expect them to, they flip out. But children, like all of us, are human, and we ALL make mistakes. We ALL do things that may not be correct and it's not right to be hit because we do things incorrectly.

[seabeyond]

61. but where i differ with your opinion, my parents spanked and even used belt.

we were not abused. they did not do it to assauge their anger. it was merely a form of punishment for misbehavior and we were clear that is all it was. we were well loved. it wasnt used as a means of control in any stretch of the imagination. one of the really nifty in our house is us kids were respected and listened to and well nurtured. so no, i do not just automatically see it as poor parenting or abuse.

my mom told me after a couple years watching me with my oldest, that she wished she had done differently than she did.

i wouldnt allow that guilt from her for anything in the world. how absurd. they were poor. she was 18, dad 19 when they got married. got preg adn had three kids one year apart. 2 yr old, 1 yr old, and newborn. they did pretty damn good. kick ass.

no guilt

i was financially secure, in 30's and much more mature with one child to focus on for almost three years and a hubby that wasnt old fashion, but progressive and helpful

[dorkus erectus]

69. It is possible to be abusive without meaning to, you know...

And the fact that your mother regretted her actions only goes to show that she felt it was wrong. You even stated that they were so young. It's not a slam against them; it's acknowledging that we should always promote the alternative to hitting. And do so in a way that doesn't condemn the adults, because you are right--many are just trying to do the right thing and automatically fall back on the way they were raised.

[seabeyond]

73. there was nothing that felt abusive about it, even in that time. i cannot

agree with you. to use wrongly, or improperly. to maltreat.

it wasnt, and that is the point.

they were very controlled. they made sure discipline was used for clearly laid out infraction. we knew we were loved. it was not out of strength or anger or to hurt. but merely a tool to say, you do this, you get a swat, two swats, three swats. and then it is over.

[dorkus erectus]

81. But you have done things differently...ab-use just means doing something

in a way that is incorrect. There may be lots of love and you may not have felt it was malicious, but you still choose to use a different method and that is significant to me.

[seabeyond]

87. but there was a lack of maliciousness. you want to put it in a place that it isnt.

there can be plenty of abuse, with other means of punishment, discipline, or lesson.

i had years of growing up, gathering info and knowledge, material out the waszu about child development that my parents did not have. i also couldnt hit someone for anything in the world. even if they came out saying that spanking was the miracle to parenting, i would then be a failure as a parent. cause i couldnt do it. not even for the health of my child. then that makes me a bad parent, but seeing how we all are uniquely created, we can only work with what we have

also

a child, even at the youngest of age is so very fuckin perceptive, they feel, they feel the energy. they KNOW the intent. that goes a long way. the understanding of the youngest of age took me a huge step in my parenting that my mom admired so much. could have been what she was talking about. even at a little age, understanding just how much knowledge and feed back the little one can give a parent in guidence to what the individual baby needs in love, ... and that love is in guidence and discipline, with a feel, a touch, a kiss, a heart to heart, a forehead to forehead.

none of these things where considered or thought of or talked about....and much still isnt

but when i was little, i KNEW there was not a maliciousness, and one cannot define it as such if as a child i did not feel it. one cannot define it as abuse if i didnt feel abused.

[moc]

7. Speaking as both a parent and as a parenting researcher, I chose "other"

First, I don't approve of your option which states that spanking is child abuse. I think that minimizes the horror of true child abuse and will only function as flame bait.

As a parenting researcher (16 years), I can tell you want the literature says: spanking/physical punishment is associated with short term compliance, not long term behavior change. In short, it's not effective. (Spare me your anecdotes; they're just that anecdotes; the empirical literature is pretty clear on this.) The literature is also pretty clear that a reliance of physical punishment is associated with elevated rates of child externalizing and internalizing problems in the future.

The problem is that spanking doesn't teach anything (except the message that "I'm more powerful than you so I can hit you when I want to.") One objection I have to people who spank is their assumption that those who don't spank don't discipline. It's not an either/or proposition. It's not "spank or do nothing". It's possible to be very consistent and effective in your discipline approach without every hitting your child.

As a parent, I completely understand the inclination to want to spank. I have a 12yo and a 6yo, and I've definitely had moments as a parent that I'm not proud of. I have spanked my 12yo x1 and my 6yo x2, but each time it was an indication of me losing control and letting my frustration get the better of me. Whether it's spanking or yelling, I've found that whenever I lose my cool, things go downhill very quickly.

[seabeyond]

10. spanking or yelling,.... things go downhill very quickly. so many good points

and i look at it almost exactly like you do.

my sons tell me would rather a spank than a yell. i say.... say what? cause you have never had a belt dude, lol. but the yelling hurts them too. now we have had plenty of conversation and the why's and that takes the lesson so beyond, which is parenting.

another thing, is no parent is perfect and a child hearing us acknowledge being imperfect allows them to accept there own imperfections perfectly.

but the bottom line, whenever one allows the anger to take hold, parenting becomes ineffective. doesnt mean a higher cannot be gleamed from it, even in that is its own lesson. but yes, with our out of control, so does our children

[QueenOfCalifornia]

20. ...

There are people who believe that spanking is child abuse - that is why the option is in the poll - had I not included that option, someone would point out that it should have been there... This is not a truly scientific poll. There is a range of child abuse which may include corporal punishment. Does that mean that all spanking is child abuse? Maybe, maybe not.

I find it odd that you would think I am minimizing "true child abuse" - I think, that often times, people cross the line while spanking - I think it is entirely possible that spanking in some situations can be considered abuse. My own mother used the term spanking when what it was was downright beating - she hit me with anything she could get her ands on and then carry on as if nothing had happened.

I appreciate your well thought out response.

[moc]

27. I agree with you that is one of the problems with spanking, that it can devolve into abuse.

Sadly, that is also a well-documented phenomenon. Also known as the "coercive cycle" in the parenting literature, some parent/child dyads can engage in what can only be characterized as a "death spiral" wherein the parent decides s/he has to "get the better" of the child and becomes more and more forceful in their spanking/physical punishment when the child doesn't acquiesce.

Sorry if you thought I was going off on you with regards to the abuse reference. I meant it more generally. I've seen too many posts in these spanking threads where posters yell that spanking is unilaterally abuse. I think such an attitude is misguided and only serves to put those who spank on the defensive. In my experience, if a parent can be taught more effective means of discipline, most of them (the reasonable ones) will give up spanking naturally.

[enlightenment]

23. I swatted my kid once - he was still in diapers.

Smacked him on his diapered butt in reaction to seeing him stick his finger into an electric socket. Knew it was not the proper response as soon as my hand was in motion.

My kid responded in a way that told me, without a doubt, that corporal punishment would be a waste of time - he turned around, planted his stubby legs firmly on the ground, put his hands to his hips and GLARED at me. 18 months old. Most defiant behaviour I've ever seen. No tears, no quivering lip - just a cold, hard stare. Yikes.

I moved on to 'time-out' after that incident, but it proved to be another ineffective tool when applied to a child with a good imagination. I can still see him, sitting quietly while constructing intricate 'lives' for his fingers and toes. Each digit had a name and personality and interacted with the others. I could remove toys and books, but not his hands and feet, so the 'punishment' value of that process was extremely limited.

After that I resorted to long, tedious conversations with him that were probably more punishing than any swat. He tells me now - at 29 - that the threat of having to sit through an hour-long discussion about his infraction was an incredibly effective deterrent. Every child is different, but I don't think any long-term benefit comes from being spanked.

[moc]

30. LOL! Your kid sounds like a riot!

I'm sure you have a number of gray hairs as a testament to that!

[enlightenment]

31. Probably! One day I will stop jumping in the dye pot and

find out . . . :)

He was a hoot - never a dull moment raising him, and he is still one of the most interesting people I know!

[mwooldri]

100. That's about my level of spanking too...

spanking is definitely not a usual method of discipline for me. It's basically a sign I have lost control. I have swatted my son on two occasions when he was about to get into danger and my amounts of yelling and shouting no did not work. And felt horribly guilty afterwards. However he did not cry, or complain. He found it funny. So smacking does not work with him.

With him, it's steer him towards the behaviours I want him to exhibit and away from what I don't want him to do.

Mark.

[noamnety]

41. Other, for similar reasons

I was raised by parents who spanked. I still remember it being very unjust on occasion, and at one point when I confronted my parents about a particular instance, they said they must have been having a bad day. They didn't see it as a big deal, they are human. But the implication is exactly as you said - it was about them, not about me.

My daughter got spanked a few times when she was very young, too young to remember it, I hope. I had a WTF am I doing moment when I realized I was doing it from habit (how I was raised) and because I was angry and stressed. I haven't hit her since, not even once. I never missed it as a tool of discipline. It's sort of like eating cheese doodles - once you have it in your head that they don't really taste all that good and aren't good for you, it's easier to just identify yourself as a person who doesn't eat them. And once you break the addiction, you don't miss it at all.

I don't understand why my parents ever brought cheese doodles into the house, either, now that I think about it.

I'm not proud that I ever resorted to it, not proud that I did it without critical thinking. I am proud that I broke a generational cycle, though.

[wolfgangmo]

58. i agree with your post almost completely.

there is one exception for me. In an emergency I would reserve the right to do whatever is necessary to keep the little bastards alive. For example a little one is not listening and decides to dash into the street in front of the car I can see and he can't. I would grab, restrain and let him know that sometimes he needs to control his little butt.

Other than that, anytime a kids gets the best of you, you need to take a time out, consult your coach, get the ball and then come back into play. In other words, keep the upper hand. There are always other ways to teach rather than opening up a big old can of whoop ass on a kid.

[seabeyond]

68. a lot of people use running in street. never got that. when that little

i was ALWAYS in reachable distance of child, even letting them have the independence with the understanding cars and street was not a concept they have. i positioned self between child and access to the danger and redirected them

i never got why parent has a problem here with danger, but that they are not acessible to baby... ok, toddler, but that is a baby to me

[IdaBriggs]

90. I have two at the same time, and they are FAST.

Pull one out of the car seat, take them into the house while juggling the diaper bag, then run back out to get the other one while leaving the first one alone for the time it takes to get to the car/unstrap child and run back into the house with anything else that needs to be brought in, or hold hand/make first child stand in car by back door (which is what I do when I am in a parking lot, if I am going to be holding hands while we walk into someplace). It can be quite a challenge for me, and I am constantly amazed at the new things they are picking up. For example, in the instance I talked about in post #67 with my son (which really happened), it was the first time he had decided to play 'chase' outside. He got a small headstart on me because I was strapping my daughter into her car seat, and got close to the end of the driveway with me bellowing NO!!! before I caught up to him.

Did I mention how fast he is? LOL! And how he was laughing because he thought mommy chasing him was a fun game? Scared me half to death. Sigh. Just a normal mommy-moment, where an opportunity presented (mommy distracted), and a smart toddler took advantage. Probably wouldn't have happened 99% of the time, but at that moment, it did.

Diaper swat, a bellow of outrage, and a firm LOUD "NO!" Did it work long term? Well, he is still alive, but that could just as easily be because it turned Hyper Vigilant Paranoid Mommy into Super-Hyper Vigilant Beyond Paranoid Mommy. Altho last week we had an incident where I didn't close the door hard enough while I went to retrieve his sister, and he made it outside before I finished getting his sister out her car seat. Not a diaper-swat offense, but heart palpitations for me! LOL!

I love my children. I hope *I* survive their childhood! LOL!

[seabeyond]

92. you are funny.... i hear ya. i have

a great niece. one and half. i am not so far from my own childrens years, they are 11 and today 14. now that i take care of the little one, i think wooooosh, glad i am out of that. i am tired. now i am old, lol, so that has something to do with it. but man, they never stop.

[seabeyond]

93. btw.... this is why i cant give a black or white on this issue

and dont take a firm stand on it.

your son was not hurt at all. maybe worked, maybe didnt, but in the scheme of things, in all yawl will experience over the years, this is a nothin.... and one certainly cannot elevate it to abuse. the absurdity

[IdaBriggs]

96. I have to agree with you -- this isn't just a black-and-white thing.

I don't consider the half-a-dozen total times my two have gotten 'diaper swats' to be abuse, but I *was* abused as a child, and I am confident I know the difference. Mine are still too young to understand the dangers, and as mommy, its my job to protect them. I will comfortably use any tool in my arsenal to do so.

God help me if I need to 'spank' them past their toddler years, and hopefully, I will have the good sense to keep it in reserve for 'life and death obedience' stuff. It depends on the parent, the child, and even the moment. Parenting is tough stuff.

Sigh. I can only hope my mistakes are minimal, and my children know they are loved. Sigh.

[IdaBriggs]

86. As someone who has researched it, would you mind sharing

your opinion on my post (#67)? Is your comment "spanking doesn't teach anything (except the message that "I'm more powerful than you so I can hit you when I want to.")" true across the board with all ages, or is it an age specific thing?

I am truly hoping that my toddling two year olds aren't learning the wrong lesson with my 'only when its life-or-death diaper swats' but of course, as a parent, I am always nervous about the lessons I am teaching versus the lessons I am *really* teaching, if you know what I mean! LOL!

[moc]

105. At the age of two, they are still pretty irrational beings (e.g.,, impulse driven)

so they're not really learning much of anything. At that age, it's less about teaching and more about trying to make sure you can prevent situations in which that impulse on their part could kill them. Hence, we put away poisonous/dangerous things in our home, put plugs in the outlets, etc. It's fine to try and "teach" a 2yo to stay at your side, but the temperaments of some little kids are such that at a certain point you realize what you really need is a leash.

So, while I understand the impulse (on the parent's part) to swat a kid's bottom when they run into the street, etc., it doesn't really teach anything either because kids that age have a hard time controlling their impulses. Just because you swat their bottom this time doesn't mean they won't run into the street again tomorrow.

My heart goes out to you as a mom of twins. Having parented two very active kids separately (thankfully separated widely by 6 years), I can't imagine having two to manage at once. I think that when situations related to safety are involved, restraint/restriction is the way to go if you've got more than one - leashes, playpens, etc.

Thankfully, that "mobile but completely irrational" period will start to wane as your twins approach 3 or 3.5yo. Just try to keep them safe (and yourself sane!) in the interim. For what it's worth, my younger sister has boy/girl twins who are turning 7yo next month. She already had 2 boys by the time the twins came along, so she was not unfamiliar with the ways of boys. Even so, the boy twin tested her like you wouldn't believe. By the age of 18m, he had figured out how to stick brooms in the ceiling fan and how to light matches. Oh my!

[Matariki]

97. great post. n/t

[luvspeas]

8. I don't have kids, but if I did, I'd never lay a hand on them...

I was just out with my dog, and this lady came by with her dog. She was all sweet and nice and we were talking and admiring each other's pets. She wanted to pet my dog, which was fine, but she wanted her dog to sit and she was being a little anxious and popped up. Then the woman smacks the dog on the ass pretty hard and yells SIT! It was disgusting and I hate it when people put me in that position. I never quite know what to do. If I say something, then there's the possibility the dog will really get it later on (I've seen that with kids and dogs), but if I say nothing, here I am out in the street looking like an idiot. So I just said, "Oh she's fine, she doesn't need to sit", and I go home feeling like an asshole.

Off the subject, I know, but it just happened just now and I never hit my dog even though we hit our dog when I was a kid and I got hit too. Fortunately I have a husband who was never hit and I took dog training classes where I learned that you get so much more out of your pets if you never hit.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. My views on the topic have changed over time.

My youngest has autism, and I know that for him, spanking would be grossly inappropriate.

But every kid is different. The only way to assure their safety is to find a way to shock them into attention. For some, a raised voice won't cut it.

... but I'm a product of my environment. I'm old enough to have been spanked by teachers with a 2 1/2' long, 3# board with holes to lessen wind resistance. I often think that they put more thought into paddle design than curriculum design.

[JonLP24]

12. Only my uncle spanked me

I don't remember what I did to get to get in trouble when I was between 5-7 but I definately remember getting spanked and redness if that explains anything. My personal views (though not conclusive) is that it teaches a child hitting can be used when you're angry with someone. I have other views about it as well but it all leads to my personal conclusion is that it is counter-productive.

[alfredo]

13. Spanking can get out of hand like it did at our school. In some cases

teachers were using torture techniques such as hanging by thumbs, palestinian hanging, caning the bottom of the feet then forcing the victim to run for extended periods of time. Sometime they were forced to put rocks in their shoes. Boys were force to put a slip knot around their genitals, the twine passed between their legs so it would hang out the back of their pants. You know what will happen if a guy sees twine hanging out of someone's pants. Moderate punches to the thighs were given until the person can't stand, then forced to run laps.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. Jesus Christ! In *this* country? n/t

[alfredo]

17. Yes, Shively Ky back in the early sixties.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

26. That wasn't a school. It was a Turkish prison camp!

[alfredo]

104. Naw, it was a redneck town full of Klansmen and other crooks.

[wolfgangmo]

62. Oh ... Kansas

Well that explains it. I mean why follow the Geneva conventions when you can tie string to a scrotum and yank on it?

Gotta love Kansas. Actually if you think about it, I wonder if this explains their voting patterns and the fact that they keep trying to get the bible into science class?

[LeftyMom]

65. KY is Kentucky. Kansas is KS.

[Arkansas Granny]

19. Where did you go to school? I can't believe this happened in the US.

What you are describing are torture techniques.

[alfredo]

102. The main offender was

a former WWII POW. He was probably acting out what he had to endure. The other was a shop teacher that was a sadist.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

34. I went to a private school

in the early '60's - In CA -

We were spanked in front of the class & then forced to kneel on lentils and pray for God to save our souls when we were "bad." But I never had my feet caned and the other shit you describe is horrific.

BTW - when I prayed to God to save me I had a note pinned to my shirt or dress that told my mother to punish me for _______________. (fill in blank) I usually was punished for talking to my other classmates during class. So, I got spanked with a paddle or belt at school and my knees were bruised and sore and then I got an ass kicking at home. It sucked. So yes, I consider the spanking to be child abuse.

[alfredo]

106. My parents saw the bruises but figured I was getting what

I deserved. Anyway, the torturers were good Christian men, so they were above suspicion. We were just poor rednecks, so we had no credibility.

The main torturer looked like Cal Thomas.

[sammythecat]

114. I guess so, it got out of hand...

that's just plain sadism.

[alfredo]

123. Some of us were broken, some just got tougher. By the time I turned 16

their violence had no effect.

[SmileyRose]

124. UM

:hug:

[Echo In Light]

14. Spanking wasn't used on me when growing up. We likewise never spank our daughter

[TahitiNut]

15. People (big or small) aren't for hitting.

Unless they're fundy neocons.

:hide:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

21. You better hide!

:spank:

[LuckyLib]

107. Amen. No hitting, no way, no how. Doesn't work, isn't fair, teaches all the wrong things.

[JDPriestly]

18. Spanking is not necessary.

Use diversion and, as much as possible, positive reinforcement when the children are young. When the children are older, listen to them. Think before you act. And be involved with your children on an emotional and intellectual level. Hug them a lot.

Your children will understand if you are disappointed with them, and will care about your disappointment if you show them early enough that you care about their disappointment. Our children return to us what we give them. So, do unto your children as you would have them do unto you.

[raccoon]

22. Most of the time, spanking isn't about what the kid did or didn't do,

it's about the parent being pissed off. At least that's how it was in my childhood. And it didn't teach me a damn thing.

[Echo In Light]

49. Concise point

[lunatica]

24. No spanking necessary when you're a consistent parent

If the kids know the rules and the parents are completely consistent about what the rules are and what the penalties are then everyone is on the same page and no abuse is necessary, including yelling at the kids or calling them names or letting things get to the point that the parents are reacting with anger. There is no reason to conflate punishment with violence which only creates a deep seated fear and breaks down trust. That's bad parenting and shows a sorry lack of self-discipline and is abuse.

Punishments are time out, going to your room, no tv for x amount of time, losing telephone privileges, being grounded and other clearly detailed punishments for each act or repetition of the act. There is never any breach of trust when this is done because everyone knows what the rules are.

[wolfgangmo]

74. I think that it depends on the kid.

I was a holy terror. My parents were great and very consistent. But I got into trouble just to experience something new. I invented ways to drive mom and dad nuts.

My dad spanked me exactly once and my mom exactly twice. Both times they made me examine and process what led up to this punishment and both times they offered an alternative punishment that didn't involve corporal punishment. I chose to be spanked to get it over with.

Those few spankings each marked a changing point in my thinking and behavior. Each led to a maturing.

Of course, what worked for me will not necessarily work for others.

[lunatica]

82. You were given a choice and that makes all the difference

I had two boys and on occasion they would ask for a whipping rather than one of the long punishments (like being grounded for a week after a repeat offense). The answer was no. It was no because the punishment should be painful.

But on occasion they did reminded me of the story The Ransom of Red Chief. but I stayed consistent if only to prove to myself that I could.

[Oregone]

25. Its illegal here actually

We are investigating water boarding as an alternative since moving to BC

[patrick t. cakes]

37. i love oregon n/t

[Oregone]

38. No, I left Oregon. I think its fine there

I moved to Vancouver Island, BC, Canada

[pacalo]

28. I had two sons who knew how to behave when they went to the mall, restaurants, & public functions.

I felt it was my parental responsibility to teach them how to behave respectfully in public -- strangers aren't going to be as forgiving as family, & first impressions are important -- & to know right from wrong. I did spank them when they didn't think I meant business, but, mostly, I took away priviledges & even developed "The Look" -- a serious expression that let them know when they were doing something inappropriately.

Today's "time outs" crack me up; they seem to encourage whining. Bad behavior needs to be addressed seriously.

[Lyric]

29. These days, no, but I did so once when he was younger.

He developed a short-lived habit around the age of four of wanting to hit other kids. Because he had never been spanked or struck in ANY way at that point in his life, we couldn't seem to make him understand that hitting causes pain and humiliation to the person being hit. So in the summer before he started kindergarten, when I caught him hitting his cousins because they refused to do what *he* wanted them to do, I swatted him--once--on his upper leg. No screaming, no yelling--I was calm about it.

After he calmed down, we talked about it. I asked him how it felt to have someone bigger than him smack him because HE wasn't doing what they wanted, and he said it was bad. He asked, "Is that how LyricNephew (his cousin) felt when I smacked him?" I said yes, that was EXACTLY how LyricNephew felt, as he is a three-year-old who's MUCH smaller than LyricKid was at the time. He thought about it for a minute, then went to go apologize to LyricNephew, and he has never struck another person since that day. He's also never gotten another spanking. We used time-outs and toy restrictions when he was younger, and we use an age-appropriate version of grounding now that he's almost nine. "Grounding" in our house is a progressive thing, but generally involves two or more of the following, depending on the severity of the offense: no playing with friends, no bike, no scooter, no video games, no TV, and/or no playtime with us, for anywhere between a few hours to a week. The worst grounding he ever got was for not coming straight home from the bus stop, once. He went to a friend's house instead, and we were panicked by the time we made the rounds and found where he was. He was unapologetic and surly about it, so the combination of what he did with the bad attitude earned him ALL of the above-listed things, for an entire week.

We also let him "earn back" some privileges during a typical grounding by doing versions of community service-type stuff, like walking around the block with a trash bag and gloves to collect litter, choosing toys to donate to the thrift shop, and sometimes even manual labor beyond normal chores, like helping an elderly neighbor carry soil and rocks for her garden or helping another neighbor clean out boxes from her storage shed. Our neighbors all adore him, and are glad for the help when we call around to see if anybody needs something done that a sturdy eight-year-old boy could be helpful with.

I have also been known to use pointless, boring manual labor as discipline for attitude problems. If he is continually rude to me or Rhythm because he's in a "bad mood," I've occasionally made him carry a bucket full of water one shot glass at a time to go water the maple tree in the backyard. The bucket stays on the porch, he isn't allowed to run, and it takes FOREVER. By the time he's done, he's generally very regretful about the behavior.

:hi:

[JonLP24]

35. Sounds very much like Army disclipline which btw is very effective

Restriction and extra duty. Restriction(for single soldiers that is) is confined to the barracks, place of duty, troop medical clinic, and dining facility. Extra duty was mostly picking up litter, mopping floors, etc. After a soldier does that, especially for 45 days they don't want to go through that again.

[Dappleganger]

48. I agree with that

IMO it can be very effective with certain children.

Another aspect which a friend of mine used to call is 'tomato-staking'. It is similar to keeping a new puppy on a leash with you at all times, under supervision. Of course it doesn't involve a physical leash, but it is basically requiring a younger child to stay with you by your side for a few days and work alongside of you as you both work on the character problems. Yes, there is some restriction of freedom involved (they may have toys but cannot run off by themselves to play), and work is done alongside the parent. It's especially a good thing to do if you have projects around the house. Again, it's more of a form of training and NOT punishment (although at first they usually see it as such). Just think of how tomatoes fall over when they grow too fast and become top-heavy, so you have to stake them and tie them gently so they will grow up and stronger and produce good fruit. It does take time on the part of the parent (maybe even a few days off from work if things are really bad) but IMO it's worth it. One friend did this when his son was suspended from school for fighting--during this time he found out that a lot of things had led up to this but because the parents were so busy and passing quick judgments the son didn't tell them anything. It brought them much closer together as a result.

[Twinguard]

84. Those are fantastic forms of punishment.

I especially like the community service oriented and neighbor helping ones.

At the appropriat times, I'm totally going to adopt those policies.

[ohheckyeah]

32. I don't have children but I did have nieces and nephews

one of which lived with me for 3 years. I never spanked any of them but one time I did slap the hand of a nephew. He was determined to pry the outlet plugs out of the outlets and went to it every time my back was turned for 1 second. The smack on the hand worked and I thought it was a lot less traumatizing than an electrical shock but I think the reason it worked was because I didn't make a habit of it. I didn't have a lot of trouble with discipline with the nieces and nephews mainly because I gave them a lot of attention and when I said no I meant it but I only said know when it was something important.

[Soylent Brice]

33. am i late?

:popcorn:

[Redbear]

36. I know many parents who think it is wrong not to spank.

They feel that you are harming a child unless you whack him periodically.

[droidamus2]

39. Other

Because I don't have kids, don't intend to have kids and have never really wanted kids. As a general philosophy I have no problem with appropriate and effective spanking. I am sure some will question what the hell I mean. It is just this an appropriate spanking is one that takes place at the time of a transgression or misdeed not . Effective means that it does not actually do any physical damage basically the louder the sound it makes should be sufficient enough. I thinking spanking or as they say a good swat on the butt is effective only up to a certain age and obviously shouldn't be done to babies or infants. So I am saying maybe between the ages of 3.5 to 5.5 or so depending on the kid. As soon as the kid no longer cries or seems to be upset by a spanking they are too old for it to be effective anymore. Now here's where I'll really get in trouble. I take a look at an example from the animal kingdom. Look at what a mother dog does when one of her puppies acts up. She will snap and growl, notice I said snap not bite, enough to scare the puppy into knowing not to do that again (that she shouldn't be trifled with). In the human realm the idea is to yes have the psychological effect at a very young age to make disappointing your parents and the threat of their 'power' to be enough to keep the kids as close to the straight and narrow as possible. Doesn't work on everybody but worked pretty well in my family.

[butterfly77]

40. I spank ..

and I feel no guilt.

[dorkus erectus]

52. But you haven't explained why you spank rather than explain and give out consequences

I said before that hitting is stupid, lazy, and cruel. It's stupid because it takes no thought and is indicative of a reaction, which is done without thinking first. The people who use this type of punishment tend to be less educated than those using restrictions and reason. It's lazy because it's easy. It's a very base thing; the level of a caveman, in fact. It's cruel because it treats a child as a thing, rather than an individual with feelings. Would you, as an adult, enjoy getting slapped when you err? Then why inflict that barbarism on a child?

[butterfly77]

64. I don't think that it is stupid..

I think in some cases it is well deserved. My reaction is done with a lot of thought out and well reasoned conclusion. I am well educated and I don't believe it is being lazy,it is being I think I put a lot of energy into it depending on the severity of the situation.I love my children and I don't consider them things but people who are very precious to me. No.I as an adult would not enjoy being slapped when in err.

I think that as an adult I think that I am fully mature enough to follow rules and laws and if I am not then I will suffer the consequences of my err. I don't believe it is barbarism. Why would I afflict a spanking on my child because they broke the rules and they deserve it if they constantly disobey rules that I have set and deceitfully and knowingly disobey my rules. Of course I do have other punishments it depends on the offense...

[dorkus erectus]

79. I am not trying to insult you personally, by the way, but what I mean by 'stupid'

is that it doesn't teach your child a damn thing! All your child will be focused on is how much pain (or lack thereof) you inflicted on him or her! The actual offense isn't even addressed! And pray tell--what laws do you break where you get hit?

IMO, it's lazy to use intimidation to get your children to do as you say. There is no intelligent discussions taking place regarding what transpired. And if you find that your children are being deceitful on a regular basis, trust me when I tell you that you are increasing the likelihood by your tactics! Although I wasn't really "hit" but swatted by my parents in anger, my mom was pretty strict and I lied in order to get out of trouble. Had she been more approachable and understanding, I probably wouldn't have gotten into half the trouble I did! I was good but I was also pretty naughty! I knew the inside of the principal's office!

[droidamus2]

103. Okay

The one thing I haven't stated in my responses on this thread that spanking should be used sparingly and you should still let the child know you love them and what they did wrong to reenforce why they received the spanking in the first place.

[droidamus2]

101. The problem as I see.

As I stated in another post my experience with young children is very limited but I would say the following. Children are not just little adults and their ability to be 'reasoned' with is limited especially at pre-school age. I think your suppositions of the spanker not thinking and being less educated are probably just that suppositions. Many people, my partents included, do not spank out of anger but as a specific punishment. Yes it is at a primal level because that is the part of the child you are trying to effectively train. Again I don't think a true spanking should even have to hurt that much as there are techniques that make a loud noise without much pain and no damage (damage isn't a spanking it is abuse). As I stated earlier I also think it may not work with some kids and is only an effective training measure for a short period in a childs life. Maybe you can reason with some kids but some if you don't establish that you are truly in charge they will run all over you. If you can accomplish that without spanking more power to you.

[moc]

115. Some very interesting terms used in your post.

I'm intrigued by your use of the term "train" and "training". When I discipline my children, I think in terms of *teaching* them, not training them. Training is for animals, not children.

It is true that very young children cannot be reasoned with because of the limitations of their own cognitive development. I think what is important to remember with discipline is that the alternative to spanking is not "reasoning with them". That makes it sound like you're going to sit down and have a conversation about the pros and cons of their behavior. Obviously a silly proposition if you're talking about a child under the age of 4, and to a certain extent even older than that depending on the child's temperament.

Good discipline should be structured according to the developmental stage of the child. Under the age of 2, it's pretty pointless to discipline in any formal way because the child's impulse control and level of understanding is so low, little is retained. Redirection and prevention are the best approach. That doesn't mean you let anything go, behavior-wise. Just keep in mind the child will have little capacity for retention. Johnny hits Janie? "We don't hit" said calmly with Johnny placed in time out or separated from the group for 1-2 minutes. Johnny hits Janie with a block? "If we can't play with the block correctly, we can't play with the block at all." Again, this is said calmly while block is removed from play area and put into timeout. However, at this age, it's a lot of "lather/rinse/repeat". Just remember that discipline is a process not an event.

As the child's cognitive and self regulation skills grow, then you can move into conditional discipline situations, e.g. "If you don't do X, then Y will happen." If you don't clean up your toys, they're going into a box in the garage. If you can't sit at the dinner table without screaming, you need to go to your room until you calm down and can behave at the dinner table appropriately." Another thing that works well at the preschool age (3-4), is to give choices. "You can either put on your coat yourself or I can put it on for you."

As they get older, you can incorporate "natural consequences" more and more, the old adage being "if you broke it, you fix it". When they're young (3-6), those natural consequences need to be pretty close timewise with respect to the offense. As they get older, there can be more temporal separation. For example, my 12yo can be a total bear in the morning. If she's being really smart-mouthed with me or her dad, I tell her that obviously, she didn't get enough sleep because her behavior is so bad, so that evening she will be going to bed early. With younger kids, though, the consequence needs to be more immediate, e.g., "you can't stop misbehaving in the store then we're going home" and then do it.

The important thing to remember is that (1) you need to pick your battles; and (2) always follow through. You can't make an issue out of everything, or you'll drive yourself and your kid nuts. However, never threaten something you aren't willing to follow through on.

Throughout this, however, it's also important to consider not only the developmental stage of the child but also the child's individual temperament. For example, some children have real issues with self-regulation and it's these issues that can get them into trouble. My 12yo is another good example of this. She is easily frustrated and can have an explosive response to frustration. Sometimes when these situations arise, I have to realize that what she needs from me is not discipline but assistance in how to problem solve and reduce her frustration/anxiety. When she was a preschooler, I had to realize that sometimes the best thing was to detach from her outbursts and give her some space to calm down. Once she calmed down, I could try and help her develop better coping skills. Each child is different, and those temperament differences have important implications for discipline. However, spanking does not ever need to be a part of an effective discipline approach with any child.

[droidamus2]

125. Sorry

Didn't read your whole post as in the end I am not at all interested in the psychology of kids. I said training because I reject your idea that training is only for 'animals'. I agree that at the earliest age it is useless to train or teach as they don't have the capacity to understand. People at the base level are animals we like to think because we have more intelligence that we don't at the most basic levels operate under the same influences that 'animals' do. I guess what I am saying that between the too young for anything and the teachable level that there is a period in their development that 'some' children will react to training, teaching , discipline whatever you want to call it. I think as we humans do in some of this stuff we way over think what is needed. I openly admit this my opinions are mine and mine alone and are just developed from observation not practical experience. Hey I've been wrong once or twice in my life maybe this is another time. NOTE : funny you used the 'hit em with a block' example I actually did that to a kid in kindergarten. We still laugh about it everytime we see each other and it was a big block. In the end all I ask of parents is please effectively teach your kids discipline as George Carlin said 'you may think your kids are cute when they do annoying things but nobody else does'.

[Dappleganger]

42. We have four kids and they've never been spanked

Three are teens and one is 11 (2 boys, 2 girls). I'm a product of abusive parenting so knew that spanking was completely out of the question for me. Dh was spanked but he decided early on that it was useless and barbaric.

We do actively discipline and train the kids and have used various forms of 'punishment' to urge them to comply when necessary. We did use time out very sparingly when they were little because we were concerned that so many parents resorted to that so quickly and too often. We found distraction/re-direction one of the best tools in our parenting arsenal.

However...one thing which really gets my goat is disrespect (to myself and to their sibs). We've been known to make the kids run laps around the house for mouthing off (within reason), do extra chores involving a toothbrush and Windex, and once the oldest ds who had just passed the top of my head was told to do pushups in Walmart because he continued to smart off w/me despite repeated warnings. The boy has the mouth of an attorney at times, unfortunately. Anyway, we don't have problems like that anymore. My kids aren't bullies, don't go picking fights, clean up after themselves and others, etc.

Is spanking always abuse? I have seen that line crossed too many times so IMO its a very slippery slope. Most of the time the parent was fighting for control and acting more childish than the kid. The last time I saw someone hit their child was at Universal Studios last month, where a younger mother wildly smacked her 2 yr. old squirmy child multiple times in public. When she was questioned and given dirty looks, all she could say was "I'm his mother, I can do whatever I want to him."

No, you can't.

[LiberalFighter]

43. Is swatting the same as spanking?

[Dappleganger]

120. yes nt

[madmom]

44. My father spanked my brother with a belt, me,he never spanked,

my brother is very submissive and introverted, I am very out spoken and assertive. Is there a connection?

[GetTheRightVote]

45. Every child is different, some never need it & yet some do but not abuse

but I have only ever used my hand and only on their bottoms and not very hard. It is similar to a slap of a hand on a heated burner of a stove. I have never thought a tool of any kind as being a good ideal, belt, etc. In other words, not a beating type of tool or action.

I was abused as well as a child but there is a time, place and correct manner in which to discipline a child. Also, as they get older it is not usually necessary because sitting down and talking things out does really well at this point. Or if that does not work no TV, must stay in their bedroom or these types of punishments work too. Once again, what you take away as punishment changes from child to child.

:kick:

[demwing]

46. There is no yes or no answer here

And though I'm no parenting scholar, I raised (and am still raising) three children of various ages, and have over 41 years combined parenting experience on which to base my answer.

Some children respond to a spank, some do not. There is no system that works for every child for every occasion. That being said, there are some things that I believe are absolute rules for parents:

1. Don't hit your child in anger.
If you are angry, do not spank. Give the child a time out, and give yourself the chance to think, not react.

2. Never verbally/emotionally "spank" your child
Your child needs your love more than anything. This is true for all ages, adults included, but especially for children, who are less able to understand that people say things they don't mean, and that just because Mom or Dad called you a little shit-head doesn't mean you are one. There is really no reason to be mean, call someone names, or try to hurt someone's spirit.

3. Don't be afraid to show affection.
If you spank when the child is out of line, be at LEAST equally willing to hug when the child deserves it. When does your child deserve a hug? Every single day. My sons and I still hug and say "I love you," and I'm a 47 year old grizzly bear of a guy. Your kids should never fear you when you reach for them.

4. Never "Sneak attack" your child
If you have to spank, the kid better know it's coming, and why. Don't lecture forever, but--as in Rule #3--don't ever make your kids fear you when you reach for them.

5. Always think about age appropriateness
For those who spank, remember that there is an age when your kids are too young to be spanked, and an age when they are too old. I can't tell you what ages, use your judgment. If you have trouble determining when they are of the appropriate age, then you should not spank.

6. Don't be afraid to show affection.
I end with this repeat because it's twice as important as any other rule. Whatever else you do to or with your child, they should walk away with the firm understanding that they walk with Mom and Dad's love. If they ever doubt that, you are screwing up as a parent, and whatever tactics you are using to discipline need to be reassessed immediately.

[TheCoxwain]

47. Spare the Rod and spoil the child .. a Little extreme by generally true

Hey .. I dont have kids of my own .. But I have the impulses .. I see other kids misbehave and throwing tantrums ...I have this incredible urge to yell "SHUT THE FUCK UP" ....and really wish that their parents disciplined them a little more.

[rucky]

57. Did you know that "rod" from that line in the Bible...

probably refers to a shepherd's rod - used for tending sheep.

That's a metaphor I can relate to alot more.

[dorkus erectus]

50. Hitting children is stupid, lazy, and cruel

Here's another point: if I piss you off and you hit ME, I can press charges. It is considered battery to hit someone (even if they talk about your mama or curse you out to the max). So why is "okay" to do the same to a child? Another thing: it doesn't teach the child squat!

[Bucky]

53. If you spank your children, you'll give them the Swine Flu and cause gay marriage

and make God cry

[rucky]

55. I don't spank

I don't think it's abuse when parents do it - in most cases.

I just don't think it's effective parenting tool. I could be wrong, but I have no desire to try it out.

[dysfunctional press]

59. i like pie.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. "You should only spank your kid until you feel better."

Answer given by a psych teacher to a mother asking if she should spank her kids.

She finally, after some explanation, got it.

[laureloak]

63. A "rod" is used to guide sheep.

Perhaps the phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child" simply means that children need guidance.

[Lucian]

66. I'm against all forms of corporal punishment, including spanking.

[IdaBriggs]

67. A swat on the diaper for life-or-death issues.

I have twin 2 year olds, and sometimes repeated "NO!" doesn't get through. For example, my daughter got a swat on her diaper and a firm "NO!" when she wouldn't stop trying to open the (warming up) oven. I corrected her, distracted her, timed her out, and when she kept laughing/going back to do it again, swatted her diaper.

I felt some guilt, especially since there were instant water works, and outraged crying, but she did stop. She is very smart, and the next time she went to do it again, my firm "NO!" worked (as I think she was just testing to see if I *really* meant it).

For some reason, my son and his monkey climbing ways has received more 'diaper swats' for dangerous activity (including one attempt to run into the middle of the street which darn near gave me a heart attack) and climbing in places I am still shocked he can reach. (Seriously, we went from 'thou shalt not climb on the back of the couch' to 'thou shall not climb on the back of the couch, grab the chord to the blinds which you can only reach by standing on the back of the couch, and then tarzan off' in about ONE DAY. Shudder!)

At 27 months, my daughter has had TWO swats (oven and a climbing thing), while my son is at about FOUR (three climbing/one road run).

Usually we are time out / distract people, and as I said, I am reserving 'corporal punishment' for 'life-and-death prevention' issues. I hope that their communication/understanding skills will render such things unnecessary by the time we're out of diapers (we start potty training this week -- woo hoo!).

I have a dream! (chuckle)

[izzybeans]

70. The only time I even considered it was also the time I realized it was

more about me than my child. I was angry. He is 5. On the scale of justice, things seemed out of balance. Whether spanking "works" doesn't even fit into this equation for me. What's more rational and just, satisfying my anger or recognizing that he is 5 years old? Of course the wall looks like a perfect place to map out scenes for your latest cartoon adventure. But his bottom isn't really the appropriate place for me to work out my anger at having to clean and possibly repaint the dining room wall.

After some talking to and teaching about how cartoons are actually made, and the purchase of a children's eisle and tons of paper, we now have reams of cartoon scenes to chose from (and a newly experienced paint mixer). When he gets older we can talk about the appropriate time and place for a Mural.

I have yet to see someone spank a child in a situation where they were not angry. The scales of justice are never in balance in this situation and to not recognize that is to overlook how awesome a picture of "Bumble Bee destroying StarScream with his super cool ninja moves" would look next to the Dry Sink. Besides, if you grew up on the Transformers like I did you probably wish that you would have thought of drawing this on your parent's wall yourself. Let's face it StarScream had it coming, so did your parents, and you probably do too.

[moc]

76. Your post made me LOL!

I'm glad I wasn't drinking my soda, or I would have spewed my laptop. :-)

I also have a boy, a 6yo. The obsession with superheoes and "battling" are hilarious. I can't tell you how many pictures of light saber-battling Jedis I pull out of his backpack every day. Recently, a frequent topic of conversation has been proper carriage of nerf guns through the house (always pointed downward, since he accidently popped me in the cheekbone week before last).

My son hasn't ever drawn cartoons on the wall, but he made some from www.starwarstheclonewars.com and cut them out and stuck them all over the house. Too cute.

Thanks for the chuckle.

[NNN0LHI]

71. Where is the "I call the police on adults who beat on little kids." option?

Thats where I would have voted.

Don

[LeftyMom]

72. People who hit children fail at life.

That's about it, really.

[DefenseLawyer]

75. I don't spank

or at least haven't yet (5 and 2) and have never felt it necessary, but I was spanked on occasion as a child and I'm none the worse for wear. Like most things, I don't think it is as black and white as some believe.

[Twinguard]

77. I was spanked as a child.

My dad barely needed a reason to spank my brother and me. It was always to punish us for doing something bad. Unfortunately for my dad, the spanking didn't have the effect he was hoping for... our behaviors weren't altered the way he was intending, but rather we got better at not getting caught (or at least not getting caught by dad.). Today, when I look back, it looks like the spanking was just a way for him to deal with his frustration. I guess talking things out never occured to my folks as a possible solution.

Oh, and the whole "it hurts me more than it hurts you" line is total bullshit. My ass is sore and you released your aggression, who came out ahead inthat deal?

Having lived through that, I will always find a solution to a problem that doesn't involve my belt on my kids' butts. Plus, I am always weary when my dad babysits my kids that he will fall into his old parenting routine and discipline my boys with his belt. My kids know to tell mommy or daddy if anything like that were to ever happen. I doubt that it will, but years of being the recipient of spanking has made me cautious around my dad.

[Shell Beau]

78. I think I got maybe two spankings. And they weren't spankings

with a belt. More like I got swatted a couple of times. I never felt abused at all. It never made me think hitting was ok. Having said that, I will use other forms of punishment. I think we learn from our parent's mistakes, and we realize some things we want to do differently. I think my parents today wouldn't spank, but you live and you learn.

[Stevenmarc]

80. There's certainly some parents I wouldn't mind smacking upside the head.

[Political Heretic]

83. Spanking is abuse AND this thread needs more Cowbell.

[Kitty Herder]

85. Other--I don't have kids, but I wouldn't spank them if I did. Here's the thing:

My dad spanked me when I was a kid. But I don't think it achieved anything in terms of teaching me not to misbehave, because I don't even remember what I did wrong that I was being spanked for. All it taught me was to fear my father, which still breaks my heart. When I was very little, I was a daddy's girl, but with time, I grew to fear him.

[emmadoggy]

88. I am sad to admit that I have

succumbed to my anger and frustration and spanked my kids on a few occasions. I don't believe spanking works and I don't agree with it, but I was raised by parents who spanked and I think during the intense heat of those angry moments it's sometimes easier to give in to those baser instincts and follow the pattern.

I have always felt terrible remorse after doing it, for losing my temper to such an extreme and losing control of myself. In almost every case, after I've had a chance to cool down, I always talk to my child about what happened and apologize for spanking them, explaining that it is never ok to hit, no matter how angry we get. I take responsibility for my actions and admit that I was wrong, hoping to teach them that that is the right thing to do, especially when our actions affect others in a hurtful or negative way.

I wish I could say I have never spanked them, but unfortunately I can't.:-(

[NNN0LHI]

91. I admire you

Takes a big person to say what you just did. And not just on this subject either. I am talking generally speaking it is very difficult for people to admit when they are wrong about something. Its never been easy for me I know that.

Thank you for your post. It was refreshing.

Don

[emmadoggy]

126. Thanks.

I'm not proud of those moments at all and even just thinking about it makes me feel horrible.

Thank you for your kind words. :hug:

[leftofthedial]

89. When you beat your children (or your pets),

be sure to use a piece of lumber, or perhaps a bamboo cane.

That way you won't accidentally injure your hand (or fist).

















:eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

94. Laying hands on children as "discipline" is completely unnecessary AND abusive. n/t

[4lbs]

95. My parents spanked me only when I did serious things, like cause property damage or injure another

person, namely a kid.

For example, one time we all were at a relative's home and I was playing in their backyard while the adults were talking. I found some matches, started lighting them up, and set some dry logs on fire. They came over and put it out. It was a pretty sizable fire, one that could have conceivably spread if there was higher winds.

I was spanked.

Another time, I was playing with a kid up the street, in a car that was being worked on (non-functioning engine). We got into an argument and I slammed one of the doors on his hand and broke some of his fingers.

I was really spanked when my father found out.

I was also spanked for the handful of other times I got into fights with neighborhood kids, if it was determined that I started the fight. If I was defending myself (the other kid threw the first punch), I wasn't spanked.


However, for things such as spilling a soda or lesser things, I was given a verbal scolding.

Thus, my parents reserved the spanking for the really egregious things I did.

[npk]

98. Spanking children when they are little makes them reluctant to confide in their parents

When you spank a child early in life the child learns only one thing, to avoid the spanking. Most children don't take away a lesson from spanking. What they take away, is a reluctance to confide in their parents with mistakes and problems later in life. The child grows to fear telling their parents "bad news" because they know what the consequence will be. So the child, not wanting to get beaten, will simply lie to their parents, or will find some other way of avoiding talking to their parents about mistakes, bad grades, and other problems that may occur. Spanking your children usually leads to either fear or resentment. In some cases it can also lead to violence amongst children and their parents.

Spanking is a lazy form of discipline. It is often done by parents who don't have the insight into the child's behavior and resort to physical abuse as the only means of coping with a problem. The parent doesn't recognize the larger issue in most cases and only sees the end result of that behavior. I would rather have my children believe that they can always come to me with a problem or mistake, without having to worry about receiving physical abuse. BTW, there is no such thing as lite spanking. It's all the same in the mind of the child.

[RedCappedBandit]

99. Well said!

perfect

[LuckyLib]

108. Well said. It's about trust. And unconditional love. My Dad spanked us. And I never trusted him.

[winyanstaz]

109. I have three grown sons and they turned out fine...

without spankings.
That said..there is this.
If its not alright that someone beats YOU with a board or a stick or hits YOU with their hands..then it is NOT alright for you to hit a child either.
You don't have to beat kids to get them to mind..that is bullshit and a lack of good parenting skills and abuse.

[ejpoeta]

110. i tend to not really want to spank my kids.

I remember i had a friend who insisted that i needed to spank my daughter. well, i tried it when nothing else would work and she started hitting. boy, i guess she learned that hitting is a way to solve problems. i find that rewarding good behavior is most effective. and taking away things can be as well. as long as i am consistent. but my kids aren't the best behaved all the time. Emily has been diagnosed with ADHD and I think the fact that they aren't around a lot of people a lot doesn't help. It's a struggle, especially when I was spanked. It's hard to find a new way when your instincts want you to repeat what you were taught.

[JerseygirlCT]

111. You know those fundy neighbors of yours have completely misunderstood

the Bible verse they use to excuse their child abuse, don't you?

The "rod" was what a shepherd used to guide his flock in the direction they needed to go - not by whacking them, but by coaxing them.

In other words, that phrase made infamous by child-abusers really means "teach your children well, so that they head in the right direction".

Likewise the meaning of discipline - not to beat on someone, but to teach someone.

Funny how so many people think it's just dandy to whack a kid around, isn't it? They must be people who aren't confident of their teaching abilities.

[Forkboy]

112. Don't taze me, Dad.

[Mike 03]

113. I voted "Other". I don't have kids, but as a child I was spanked (rarely) and every

time I was I deserved it. In fact, in retrospect, I believe my father used great restraint.

Maybe the key is good judgment. These incidents were so rare that I recall them individually.

[TexasObserver]

116. It's child abuse, and it doesn't work.

It makes the children either rebellious or cowered.

[frustrated_lefty]

117. Little children

have the manners of mongrels, the knowledge of newborns (like, I dunno, a little person new to the world?), and the sense of self-preservation that suits a gold-fish.

Spanking is a last resort. It's not good, it's not fun, and if you raise your child right, you shouldn't have to do it more than a few times in their lives.

I was beat with a belt and with a switch, so I have an idea how bad it can be. When your child starts playing with fire in her bedroom, that's a spanking. When your child leaves sharp edged knives on the floor when you have a newborn crawling around, that's a spanking. It isn't to vent steam, it isn't to express anger, it is to make sure the child does not hurt his or her-self, and to make sure they don't do it again.

Now, on the other side, when they do something right, you have to smother them with admiration and love. Let them know just how very proud you are of them.

My life has been complicated, having had three "fathers" and three "mothers," five step-sisters, raising three children not of my blood and one daughter I sired. I've seen mistakes made. The one child I was able to raise from the very start is well-mannered, bright, friendly, and willing to listen to WHY she can't do what she might want to.

I really believe that to get to that point, you may have to be sterner than you might like and even give a swat on the fanny with a young child.

It's heartbreaking seeing your child burst into tears. This isn't never-never land, though, and a parent is responsible for raising a healthy, happy child....and that also means one who doesn't feel entitled to do whatever they want, whenever they want.

[krabigirl]

118. Define spanking - a light swat on the bum or a big smackdown? The former is no biggie, the latter is

[newportdadde]

119. I find time outs or taking toys to be the most effective but I do sometimes spank.

My preferred method is timeout, its very effective with our 5 year old. I can't remember the last time I had to spank him.. just mentioning time out as a threat usually shuts off the problem immediately.

We do occassionally spank our 3 year old twins, but most of the time we use timeout or taking away toys.

I find the spirit crushing of timeout or taking away of cherished items is much more effective then physical punishment. ;)

[quickesst]

121. Well....

.."Most people that I know do use spanking. I am appalled by this since the range is so broad"

Not exactly the way one would ask for a "civil" discussion since anyone on the side of using corporal punishment already know you are appalled at them. It's a wonder anyone over the age of thirty is functional in society seeing that so many are convinced spanking is so traumatic. When my son was growing up, he recieved a spanking whenever it was deemed he did something to deserve it. He is now a major in the Air Force, married with two beautiful children, and he and my daughter-in-law are graduates of the University of Arkansas with master's degrees. Oh yeah, they are all quite polite and respectful of others.

"The fundees down the block use "the rod" or a flat paddle to "correct bad behavior" http://www.spare-rods.com / --- I know a woman who uses a belt to spank her little boy - he was born missing a hand and has 3 fingers on his other hand - he also is missing a leg - he is under sized for his age and is hyperactive - the poor kid gets the belt for just being the way he is... It infuriates me."

A not very veiled attempt to equate responsible parents with abuse to bolster the op's argument. Don't ever let anyone tell you that the left is not capable of the same machinations we find offensive coming from the right. We're just better at it. Thanks.
quickesst

[Dora]

122. LOATHESOME: "Some children need to be spanked."

Please get the difference between needs and wants straightened out in your mind. Basic human needs are shelter, food, water. And for society's sake, please add on top of that a nurturing relationship with parent/s that both fosters trust and establishes healthy decision-making skills. THOSE are NEEDS.

Saying that a child NEEDS to be spanked is a lie and a copout. In my opinion, a parent who thinks that doesn't know what else to do, or doesn't give a damn. I was spanked only occasionally as a child, and never felt much trust for my stepdad. I also have never felt much trust for my father who never struck me, but I witnessed him spanking his dog as a form of discipline, and it terrified me each time. My husband, on the other hand, was beaten several times a week by his father and was "disciplined" (struck) by nine of his school teachers. I see every day the consequences of beating a child.

We have a four year old son. He is distractable, imaginative, opinionated, bossy, impulsive and adventurous, and we have NEVER spanked him. We use time outs, lectures, withholding of toys/treats, and the dreaded STERN LOOKS, and he is an affectionate, trusting young boy that really does want to do the right thing, and wants to learn when he gets it wrong. We can't spank that knowledge into him. We have to sit down and tell him about it. And love him.

[cherish44]

127. I never needed to spank my child

No she wasn't a perfect angel all the time but I found there were other ways to discipline her that were very effective. I was spanked as a child and it turned me into a LIBERAL. So put that in your pipe in smoke it lurking freepers...:hippie:

[frogmarch]

128. Spanking is child abuse. My husband and I never

spanked our three kids, and they in turn don't spank theirs. Spanking is abuse. It should be illegal.

[unapatriciated]

129. other, other this is it....

I have four children all grown, at first on occasion I spanked my older two. I took a few child development classes, decided spanking really didn't work. My younger two were never spanked. My dad used to tell me I spent way too much time explaining things to them.

[Dogmudgeon]

130. Spanking is a sexual thrill for many people.

So why would ANYONE spank a child?

Kids occasionally play spanking games. It's a form of pre-adolescent sex play. Most ADULTS play spanking games, too (at least once or twice); that's very certainly a form of sex play. Type the word "spank" or "spanking" into Google -- or better yet, a P2P file sharing network search site -- and see what you get.

Again -- why would ANYONE spank a child?

:shrug:

I'm not trying to guilt anyone into changing their behavior. I won't get preachy or personalize it, and I do know how difficult it can be to raise children. I just think it's a bad thing to do. I would ask the spankers reading this to reconsider what they are doing.

--d!

[tortoise1956]

131. I think spanking can be the right answer, under certain circumstances...

and I use myself as the perfect example. As a child, I was a holy terror. By the time I was two, I had eaten Boraxo and stuck a fork in a 220v wall plug. I was constantly testing boundaries. However, I learned that if I went too far, when Dad got home from work there would be a belt.
Now keep this in mind:

He never struck me in anger-I was first left to stew on my actions for a while. (Frankly, that is worse!)
Dad made it clear by his actions that there was no pleasure in it for him-he would rather have used the belt on himself than me.
The belt was reserved for egregious actions-for example, not coming home after school until, say 8:30 PM, at age 11.

In my opinion, this was not child abuse, and it was indeed effective. That doesn't mean it would work for everybody, but it worked wonders in my case.