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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 03:45 PM
Original message
The Federal Reserve and Current Crisis of our Democracy
The Federal Reserve System originated in a highly secret meeting of seven of the wealthiest men in the world, taking place at Jekyll Island, off the coast of Georgia in 1910. The seven men included one of our nation’s most powerful U.S. Senators, Nelson Aldrich, and six bankers. An article written by one of its participants, Frank Vanderlip, 22 years after the passage of the Federal Reserve Act, documents the aura of secrecy that surrounded the creation of the Federal Reserve:

I do not feel it is any exaggeration to speak of our secret expedition to Jekyll Island as the occasion of the actual conception of what eventually became the Federal Reserve System… We were told to leave our last names behind us… We were instructed to come one at a time… where Senator Aldrich’s private rail car would be in readiness…

It was the names of all printed together that would have made our mysterious journey significant in Washington, in Wall Street, even in London. Discovery, we knew, simply must not happen, or else all our time and effort would be wasted. If it were to be exposed publicly that our particular group had got together and written a banking bill, that bill would have no chance whatever of passage in Congress.


The Federal Reserve as a system for favoring wealthy financial interests

Edward Griffin explains the purpose of the Federal Reserve in his book, “The Creature from Jekyll Island – A Second Look at the Federal Reserve”. He describes it as a cartel of private banks – meaning a group of banks joined together in order to maximize profits by reducing competition through the creation of a monopoly. That Cartel was legalized in 1913 with the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Since the creation of a powerful cartel would seem anti-democratic, the real purpose of the Federal Reserve System had to be disguised with a purported purpose. Griffin explains the concept like this:

To cover the fact that a central bank is merely a cartel which has been legalized, its proponents had to lay down a thick smoke screen of technical jargon focusing always on how it would supposedly benefit commerce, the public, and the nation; how it would lower interest rates, provide funding for needed industrial projects, and prevent panics in the economy. There was not the slightest glimmer that, underneath it all, was a master plan which was designed from top to bottom to serve private interests at the expense of the public.

William Greider, in his new book, “Come Home America – The Rise and Fall (And Redeeming Promise) of our Country”, elaborates on this subject by noting the anti-democratic nature of the Federal Reserve and how it has favored wealth and power at the expense of the great majority of Americans in recent decades, to bring us to our current financial crisis:

It was mainly the Federal Reserve – sheltered from public scrutiny and protected from political accountability – that engineered America’s great shift in fortunes… with its successful campaign to suppress price inflation. Then it proceeded to encourage or passively allow the scandalous financial behavior that followed – wealth being concentrated in the financial sector, the growing inequalities among Americans, deregulation and the creation of dominating megabanks, and recurrent frauds and financial bubbles followed repeatedly by government bailouts of banks and financial firms.

The Federal Reserve’s policy essentially tilted the normal economic balance hard in one direction, then held it there for a generation. It favored wealth over wage income, creditors over debtors, capital over labor, financial investors over producers… the few over the many. My indictment may sound extreme and unfamiliar since few in public life talk about the United States’ central bank in terms of the deeper consequences its policy decisions have. Both the press and the politicians defer to the mystique of the Fed… This deference enhances the central bank’s power…

The Federal Reserve has abused its powers as a government institution. By favoring wealth and wealth holders over the broader interests of Americans year after year, the central bank’s policy decisions proved to be deeply unfair and antidemocratic, and also irresponsible…


The first major Federal Reserve Failure and its aftermath

Greider describes how the subservience of the Federal Reserve to the banking industry facilitated the Great Depression of the 1930s, following the Stock Market Crash of 1929:

The Federal Reserve’s first historic disgrace occurred after the crash of 1929 when the Fed failed to counter deflationary forces that contributed to what became known as the Great Depression… They resisted the political cries for prompt action. Lowering the interest rates, they feared, would undermine “sound money” and damage the balance sheets of major banks. For three grueling years, Fed officials hesitated as the American economy unwound… driving unemployment to a peak of 25 percent….

But with the onset of the Franklin Roosevelt Presidency beginning in 1933 things began to change markedly for the better. The steep slide in GDP was arrested in 1933. Job growth during FDR’s first (5.3%) and third (5.1%) terms still stand today as the largest recorded in U.S. history.

Greider describes how the Federal Reserve was reformed during FDR’s presidency:

In the aftermath of the destruction, the Federal Reserve was substantially reformed. Washington consolidated its control of monetary policy and the Fed adopted a more balanced understanding of the broader public interest it was supposed to serve…

The New Deal didn’t just fade away after FDR’s death. Instead, due to its stunning success, most of its components lasted for decades. Largely as a result of this, we experienced for the next three decades what Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman calls “the greatest sustained economic boom in U.S. history”.

As a result of the labor protection laws enacted during FDR’s presidency, the percent of non-agricultural U.S. workers who were members of labor unions rose from 10% to close to 30% during his presidency and remained at that level for many decades, until the anti-labor policies of the Reagan administration resulted in a precipitous decline in union membership. The labor protection laws and other New Deal innovations, such as Social Security and unemployment insurance, were instrumental in alleviating poverty in our country and producing a vibrant middle class.

Median family income is one of the best indicators of the economic health of a people. This chart shows median family income levels, beginning in 1947, when accurate statistics on this issue first became available. Family income rose steadily (in 2005 dollars) from $22,499 in 1947 to more than double that, $47,173 in 1980.


The disconnect between worker productivity and income

Thus it was that from the beginning of FDR’s presidency through the late 1970s, the American Middle Class was created and sustained, and it was generally accepted in our country that the benefits of economic growth should be widely shared. But beginning in the late 1970s, this began to change. Greider summarizes what happened:

For 25 years… financial wealth grew much faster than the real economy, where average wage incomes have long been stagnant or falling… Year after year, the financial system’s valuations and profits departed from the underlying economy upon which financial assets are presumably based… The financial system achieved its own lofty altitude… The Dow was a little below 800 in August 1982… 25 years later, the Dow was at 14,100… The Dow reached its peak in October 2007, just before the financial crisis struck…

In his book “Crunch – Why Do I Feel So Squeezed”, Jared Bernstein discusses the apparent paradox of how the financial situation of so many Americans in recent years could be so poor in the presence of such healthy “economic indicators”:

Over the course of this highly touted economic expansion, poverty is up, working families’ real incomes are down…. By 2007, 44% said they lacked the money they needed “to make ends meet”…

If you feel squeezed, chances are it’s because you are squeezed. Most of the indicators that matter most to us in our everyday lives… are coming in at stress inducing levels, but GDP… keeps on truckin’. Something’s wrong, something fundamental…

The name of the problem is economic inequality… It’s a sign that something important is broken: the set of economic mechanisms and forces that used to broadly and fairly distribute the benefits of growth… unions, minimum wages… full employment… quality jobs, safety nets, and social insurance…

How did it happen that income inequality has grown so much and the previous mechanisms for widely distributing the benefits of growth disappeared? Greider describes the process as beginning with Paul Volcker’s manipulations as Chairman of the Federal Reserve:

The recessionary policies of Fed Chairman Volcker

In 1979… Paul Volcker, the Fed chairman… threw out the usual rules and slammed on the brakes, sending interest rates soaring, shutting down credit, and abruptly stopping economic growth. This started a wrenching two-year recession in which unemployment peaked at 11 percent. It also doomed Carter’s reelection in 1980….

Volcker’s tough intervention against the inflationary disorders effectively preempted the politicians, and he basically ignored their complaints… It had the full and fervent support of Wall Street as well as of many citizens… The true winners are people of vast accumulations of financial wealth… Virtually every financial asset… became more valuable as inflation declined… Investors began collecting bonuses…Debtors, on the other hand, experienced the opposite consequences. In August 1982, Volcker finally relented on his recessionary policy and abruptly reduced interest rates, signaling that the Fed would at last allow the economy to recover…

The Federal Reserve had won its great battle against inflation – it fell substantially during the 1982 recession – but the Fed continued its war… By its estimate, inflation was still too high – bouncing around 4 to 5 percent… The Federal Reserve suppressed inflation by targeting the wages of working people. It prevented their incomes from rising even though, in a healthy economy, wages would normally rise consistently. Nobody in authority ever acknowledged this strategy… By holding back the natural energies of the economic recovery, this monetary policy kept… the unemployment rate higher… at around 6 percent. That made it very difficult for industrial workers… to demand higher wages…. But the conservative Federal Reserve regarded rising wages as an inflationary threat and worked deliberately to prevent it. Throughout the 1980s and most of the 1990s, the Fed protected its victory over inflation by keeping its foot on the brake and tapping it occasionally to make sure the economy did not get too healthy. That is, the federal government – represented by the central bank – ensured that the broad ranks of working people would not share in the “good times”…

Financial deregulation under Chairman Greenspan

The new Fed chairman (Alan Greenspan, 1987-2006) set out to liberate finance from government. His most audacious initiative was … to legalize the new all-purpose megabank that would concentrate financial power in a handful of very large institutions. Greenspan preempted Congress on this issue by unilaterally approving what was still prohibited by law…. Hard lessons learned during the crisis of the 1930s were discarded as obsolete. Democrats and Republicans collaborated in repealing or gutting prudential safeguards enacted in the New Deal… For three decades, Wall Street bankers had lobbied to reunite commercial banking with investment banking… The two realms had been separated after the stock market crash of 1929 because fraudulent self-dealing by Wall Street’s major banks fed the stock market mania that led to the crash. Preaching financial modernization, Greenspan restored the system that had failed some seventy years before. These banking conglomerates were equipped with trapdoors and accounting gimmicks that allowed the bankers to hide the debts and troubled assets. The financial gimmicks blew up in the sub-prime mortgage crisis of 2008…

The Fed first denied there was a housing bubble, then tried to restore order… until the bubble popped – and revealed the mess in Wall Street… The financial industry was earning inflated profits… and many firms borrowed heavily… marketing millions of dubious mortgages… The ‘debt industry” became increasingly unstable and self-indulgent as it prospered, but the Fed stood by it… When the accumulated excess led to crisis and failure, the central bank rushed to rescue the endangered Wall Street firms…


Our current financial crisis

So it is that the Federal Reserve helped us to arrive at our current financial crisis through a long process of subservience to wealth and power. Greider describes the current status of the Federal Reserve and its relationship to our current financial crisis:

The modern Federal Reserve once again faces the prospect of historic disgrace… Its inherent democratic contradictions are becoming visible to all. The US government protects certain large interests from the costs of their own recklessness, but prescribes the perils of market competition for everyone else. The illegitimacy of the present system is reflected in the recent bailouts of major financial houses in what amounts to American-style socialism for selected interests – the largest and wealthiest enterprises in finance. The losses incurred by these Wall Street firms were effectively socialized by the bailouts, meaning that the costs were dumped on society and the taxpayers. The Fed relieved the banks of their rotten assets and transferred them to the balance sheet of an unwitting public. The Federal Reserve, having aided in creating the oversized megabanks and having declined to regulate their behavior rigorously… when these institutions are endangered, the Federal Reserve rescues them because, well, they are indeed “too big to fail.” – or so we are told.

This arrangement is not only unjust and hypocritical, it also actively encourages the kind of reckless behavior the central bank is supposed to prevent. The potential for collusion at the public’s expense is enormous… Since the public is not allowed to know all the terms we cannot judge whether the Fed defended the public interest or simply gave the bankers whatever they said they needed… There’s no need to bother taxpayers with the messy details of what happens behind closed doors…

James Galbraith, in his book, “The Predator State”, explains how our financial elites depend upon misinformation in order to get the American public to acquiesce in their schemes. Specifically, he says that our underlying problem is NOT that the banks aren’t lending much money, but that the American people are loaded with debt. Even if massive handouts to the banks get them to increase lending (which seems unlikely), that wouldn’t erase the massive debts of the American people. In fact, it would add to it, since the American people will ultimately have to pay for the bank bailouts. And Galbraith doesn’t mince words in castigating Treasury Secretary Geithner’s plan:

The plan is yet another massive, ineffective gift to banks and Wall Street. Taxpayers, of course, will take the hit… The banks don't want to take their share of those losses because doing so will wipe them out. So they, and Geithner, are doing everything they can to pawn the losses off on the taxpayer…. In Geithner's plan, this debt won't disappear. It will just be passed from banks to taxpayers, where it will sit until the government finally admits that a major portion of it will never be paid back.


The Federal Reserve in the context of American democracy

The Federal Reserve is anti-democratic by its very nature because it has been given extraordinary powers to manipulate the financial status of our nation, and yet, being an unelected and “independent” body, it is not limited in its actions by accountability to the American public. Yet the anti-democratic machinations of the Federal Reserve are but one manifestation of numerous anti-democratic forces working on the life of our nation today.

Perhaps the most serious underlying problem with our country today is its subservience to those with wealth, power, and political connections. That attitude is fostered in a number of ways. It is aggressively encouraged by corporate America through their news media, and by the elected officials who receive their blessings and money – including almost all of the Republican Party and much of the Democratic Party. And it is fostered by the revolving doors and very close ties between our nation’s elites – in government, the Federal Reserve, Wall Street, and much of the rest of corporate America.

This attitude has radically anti-democratic consequences, in that it sets up a vicious cycle, whereby our government helps to increase the wealth and power of those who already have the most of it, and in return the wealthy and the powerful help their friends stay in office, so that they can continue to dole out more favors to them.

No politician, and few other people, would acknowledge that it should work that way. That would sound “elitist” and be contrary to our Declaration of Independence, which says that we are all “created equal” and have inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But nevertheless, our culture and system of government is permeated with the idea of subservience to the powerful.

Emblematic of this problem was President Obama’s recent statement, in response to being asked how he intends to handle the worst crimes ever committed by a presidential administration (Bush/Cheney) in US history, that we should “look forward, not backward” and not be concerned about “vengeance”. Since only crimes committed in the past can be prosecuted, the most obvious translation of that statement is that the president thinks we no longer have need for a criminal justice system – or rather, not with respect to a particular class of Americans, who should be allowed to commit crimes with impunity.

I’m not saying that I think he really believes that. More likely, his statement represents bowing to what he perceives as the political pressure that would accompany a decision to prosecute high ranking members of a previous presidential administration. Nevertheless, it represents the current political reality in our country – at least as perceived and encouraged by those in power.


A light at the end of the tunnel?

The anti-democratic attitudes noted above are primarily held and encouraged by our nation’s elites. For much of the history of our country they have been highly successful in transmitting those attitudes to large segments of the American public. But if and when the American people wise up and recognize how they have been played for fools all these years, the game will begin to unravel. And there are many signs today that the American people are indeed waking up to reality.

First there is the rapid demise of the Republican Party, manifested in the elections of 2006 and 2008. Those elections show that most Americans now recognize the deeply anti-democratic nature and hypocrisy of the Republican Party. But the demise of the Republican Party alone, even if complete, will not provide a far-reaching or permanent solution to our problems. As long as conservative Democrats like Arlen Specter, Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson and Evan Bayh abound, progressive changes will occur only with great difficulty.

Another encouraging sign is a February Gallup poll which shows that Americans favor by almost a 2 to 1 margin either an independent panel or criminal investigations of the Bush administration for their use of torture. This finding is truly remarkable in view of the efforts of our corporate news media and a popular president to discourage investigation or prosecution of those crimes. Just imagine how much more enthusiastic the American public would be about this issue if our nation’s elites didn’t try to discourage it.

Another promising sign is a series of polls that showed a huge increase in the percentage of Americans who get “most of your national and international news” through the Internet – from a paltry 13% in 2001 to 40% in 2008. Those same polls showed that in 2008 the percentage of people under 30 who get most of their national and international news through the Internet was 59%, equal to those who noted television as their primary source (respondents were given more than one choice). The Internet is a much more active medium than television, and it is much easier to receive news via television than to obtain it via the Internet. The substantial switch from television to the Internet by so many millions of Americans must signal a rapidly growing awareness of the severe class bias of our corporate news media, as well as a willingness to put effort into becoming better informed.

And finally, Americans have become thoroughly alienated from the corporate elite who so affect their standard of living, as demonstrated by a 2007 Harris poll asking which industries Americans regarded as “generally honest and trustworthy”: Oil companies 3%; health insurance companies 7%; telephone companies 10%; pharmaceutical companies 11%; electric and gas utilities 15%. With numbers like that, and with more and more Americans turning to alternate news sources, it shouldn’t be too long before they begin to connect the dots and begin to hold their elected representatives more accountable for their actions.


The ultimate question

Greider summarizes what it will take to restore the promise of our democracy:

What the country needs is a third front in the political power struggle, a counterforce to both government and the private sector. This new source of countervailing power can come only from the people themselves…

Can people really handle their responsibilities as citizens? Or must our “betters”, who claim to know what is best for us, forever lead us around like children? We need to cut through their fog and condescension. We must reclaim our power as citizens…

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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please call you're Congressman in support
of H.R. 1207, which call for an audit of the Federal Reserve.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. 109 cosponsors to date, link...
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thank you both for the information
This is what Greider proposes to do with the Fed:

The simplest way to change things is to make the Federal Reserve an operating component of the executive branch – no longer “independent”, but directly accountable to the president and subject to vigorous oversight by Congress… Banking and finance could be re-chartered to serve the society first… with strict prohibitions against usurious lending and other antisocial practices…

At a minimum, the central bank should be stripped of its role as banking regulator since it has failed utterly to protect the country from the financial system’s self-destructive excesses. The Federal Reserve cast itself as Officer Friendly, a pal of major financial players as well as their policeman. That contradictory role does not protect the public interest… The existing arrangement is wrong on democratic principles… Fundamental changes are needed to demystify the institution and compel elected politicians to take responsibility for the government’s monetary decisions. This would empower voters to discipline irresponsible actions at election time…

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. And thank you for the additional notes, although I cannot help
but wonder how Bush might have used the Fed and how effective Congress would have been in their oversight role.

:shrug:




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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Nice to see..
Kaptur, DeFazio and Abercrombie on the list.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yes it is, now up to 112 cosponsors to audit the Fed. n/t
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
51. Up to 112 now. Only 15 Democratic co-sponsors?????!!!!!!
:wtf:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Sure could use some help from the Democrats in Congress
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Watch THIS And You'll Understand WHY No Pol From Either Party Will Step Forward...
'Cause it's ALL 'Bout Da Money Stupid!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBJAkCjjz1Y



Without a COMPLETE Revamp of HOW we as a nation conduct elections NUTH'N will ever change! Click on will your vote count on issues...

www.johnrussellforcongress.com
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Again! Geithner's Plan??? It is the OBAMA PLAN! He appointed him, & he SUPPORTS HIM

How conveinent that the plan that so many Obama supporters loathe gets hung around Geithner's neck...

This is OBAMA'S economic plan.

HE is the President.

HE is the one who put Geithner in office.

HE is the one that refuses to remove him despite profuse criticism of his economic polices (or should I say THIEVING OF THE AMERICAN TREASURY).

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. Let's not quibble over semantics -- Of course Obama is responsible for Geithner's plan
whether it was initially developed by Geithner or Obama himself.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Powerful and insightful information. Long, but a must read.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. Thank you -- I would highly recommend reading Greider's book
Any of them, for that matter. He's one of the most insightful, honest, and courageous journalists around.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
:kick:
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Geithner and Summers need to go at the bare minimum
I posted that more than a month ago when the details of the plan became apparent. Unfortunately in GDP them's treasonous words - if you don't support the plan, you aren't giving Obama enough credit for being a... chess player?

Color me cynical but frankly, I'm very worried that Obama is either 1. getting bad info and getting snowed by TPTB as fronted by Geithner and Summers, or 2. he knows and already understands the score: he can become one of TPTB if he goes along.

This is an outstanding post. I really hope enough people take the time to read this carefully.

Proud to K and R.

The money quote:
"The plan is yet another massive, ineffective gift to banks and Wall Street. Taxpayers, of course, will take the hit… The banks don't want to take their share of those losses because doing so will wipe them out. So they, and Geithner, are doing everything they can to pawn the losses off on the taxpayer…. In Geithner's plan, this debt won't disappear. It will just be passed from banks to taxpayers, where it will sit until the government finally admits that a major portion of it will never be paid back."

Its hugely important that Obama gets the economic issue right. Not just for his legacy but for us, me personally, Dems, our nation's future etc.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The cat was out of the bag way way back in late November when
Edited on Thu Apr-30-09 06:42 PM by truedelphi
Pres elect Obama said "Hank (Ed:meaning Paulson) is working hard." I am glad to hear that you caught on early too.

This Presidency is of Wall Street, for Wall Street, and judging by the contributions to President Obama's campaign funds, by Wall Street.

It was shameful tohear him making remarks to the effect that there is just oo much on his plate -"When I started the campaign, there was only the matter of the two wars." (I am paraphrasing.)

So now we must believe he can't handle the job except by sloughing it off on <Surprise> the bankster insiders like Geithner.

When any number of people could have handled the job.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Thank you -- I'm very worried about exactly the same things that you are
Either way -- Whether he's getting snowed by TPTB or is or is trying to be one of them, that is very disappointing.

His choice of financial advisors is probably the main reason why I did not vote for him in the primaries, even when there was only one other choice left.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. knr... thanks n/t
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Irish Girl Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-30-09 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thank you for the illuminating post.
:toast:

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
35. Thank you
:toast:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
13. Auto K&R.
Once again, you leap into the fray with facts and links and a worthy attempt to educate the "true believers". I admire your efforts and continue to hope they are not altogether unheeded.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

"Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"Can any of you seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress today? It wouldn't even get out of committee." - F. Lee Bailey
:thumbsup:
:kick: & R


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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Thank you -- I think your Ford quote gets to the bottom of the issue
As long as we don't know what's going on, there's no way we can prevent TPTB from taking advantage of us. Knowledge is everything -- well, almost.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. kr
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Joe the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. We need monetary reform.........
In fact there's quite an informative film called "The Money Masters", it's kind of old and long but a must watch. It explains most of what you just posted, if you haven't seen it already I recommend you all give it a watch whenever you have some spare time.

Here's the link http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6076118677860424204
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
19. So you really think the fed chair should report to the president?
There's a reason most central banks in the world are independent from the political branches. Politicans should not be able to print money whenever they want to fund their own programs, or to crack down on inflation in the middle of a depression because of ideology. Under your plan, a right-wing president could order the fed to do the opposite of what the fed is doing now (for purposes of preserving asset values for the richest people in society), which could easily cause 25% unemployment. You should shudder at the thought.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Do you think that the Fed has worked out well as currently constituted?
If it was part of our official government, rather than an "independent" entity, at least it would be part of the democratic process. It would be subject to oversight, and if it made decisions that were bad for the people of our country, there would be at least more remedy than there is now. We don't have any other part of our system that gets to act totally outside of a democratic system of government. Why should the Fed?

You say that it would make ideologically based decisions if it was part of our official government. You don't think it does that now? The only difference is that as an "independent" entity, the American people have no recourse against it.
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. BzaDem points out a compelling argument that should not be taken lightly.
In my opinion the real problem is within the realm of human psyche itself, and the financial crises we are in is a symptom of criminal minds having political power. I’m sorry if it sounds off topic with the OP but it’s one aspect that should be discussed even though some don’t see it as being relevant or it is too controversial a subject, the fact is that the denial of how human character effects social institutions is to deny any cure when problems arise due to criminal influence whether that influence has been legalized or not.

So with that said, seeing as how there are such diverse opinions - all of which relate too diverse characters and motives - some good and some bad - in the collective human psyche - as to what is best for the country, the economy, and WHO should be able to legally counterfeit currency, and WHO should be allowed to control its value and affect usury fees on the unfamiliar citizenry, and WHO should be able to control the inflation and deflation of said currency for the benefit of the majority or for the ‘powers that be’ (PTB) i.e. bankers / robber barons, and WHO should decide who can afford to eat and have affordable medical care. Should it be the venal politicians that could not have risen too power without the financial help of the unelected PTB and the M$M of which they also own? Or should it be the unelected PTB themselves that greatly benefit from the elusion created when everyone pretends this is a real Democracy, even though at the same time (in secret) the PTB thrive by being above the law and free from legal oversight and they are allowed whatever impunity needed to covertly undermine any hope of real Democracy while looting, fleecing and pilfering the working class citizens of not only the US but the world, as they see fit, and they will use what ever firepower necessary (such as the US military) to destroy anyone who stands in their way.

So it becomes obvious that the problems will not be solved by getting rid of the corrupt bankers while keeping and empowering further their political spawn, because of the symbiotic relationship between corrupt capital and corrupt politicians. The Federal Reserve act of 1913 was the result of large amounts of capital gained through covert and fraudulent means, including bribery, extortion, embezzlement and murder etc. And now; the idea that a few powerful individuals can get away with steeling so much from so many has no precedent in human history and it speaks as much to the character of corrupt incompetent venal politicians as it does to the disastrous effects left in the wake of policies that achieved what was surely planed by the corrupt, as well we were warned about this long ago and many times since by those of good decent compassionate and moral character, i.e. the character type that now have a very hard time getting elected, the ones who could be trusted to run our social institutions, and the ones that would strip criminals of their wealth and power and throw them in jail in lieu of giving them cabinet positions.

K&R Dr. Dale and thanks for helping people to wake up by showing them the facts, and I hope I’m not to far off topic…

Larry

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. I don't think that's off topic at all Larry
It is very important to understand the psychological processes behind the political system in which we operate. Unfortunately we (or at least I) are a very long way from understanding it sufficiently.

Anyhow, if anyone is going to be entrusted with the responsibilities that the Federal Reserve currently has, I would much rather it be our government than an "independent" body, since our government (at least in theory) is accountable to the people.

As you point out, however, our government is currently highly corrupted (as is the Fed). Consequently, there is no good solution to this problem currently -- except to work on getting the corruption out of our government and developing a government that is more responsive to the American people.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Dupe -- Self delete
Edited on Fri May-01-09 01:55 PM by Time for change
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. Yes, I do.
Edited on Fri May-01-09 04:16 PM by BzaDem
If the Fed were under the government, it would have to report to the executive branch. This would destroy the independence of the central bank (which I doubt any mainstream economist, if any economist) would support.

I am especially happy with what the Fed is doing right now. There are certainly problems with any institution (especially the Fed), but this does not justify giving the keys to the printing presses to either congressmen or right wing ideologues. I would have no problem with more Congressional oversight, but the leadership of the Fed should not report to the President.

Most of the people replying to this thread who are arguing against central bank independence really have little idea what the Fed does (and in particlar what it does not do). The argument tends go something like: the fed is the status quo, the status quo benefits the criminals/robber barrons/etc., so every benefit to the criminals/robber barrons/etc is due to the Fed's decisions, so we should allow the executive branch to control the Fed.

I generally ignore these types of arguments, as it is pointless to argue with people who either don't understand or don't believe basic principles of economics (who luckily are a very small minority of policymakers). But I would be happy to discuss actual decisions by the Fed and their impact on the economy. There are of course bad decisions made by the Fed (the tight money policy in the great depression comes quickly to mind -- a policy we are learning from and doing the opposite of now). But I do not believe that the solution is to put the Fed under the executive, and that somehow if decisions regarding monetary policy were politically motivated that these decisions would be any better.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. In what way?
I provided a Greider's description of what Volcker and Greenspan did to our economy. Do you disagree with that?

Regarding your worry over ideological extremes if the Fed became part of our official government, I believe that the general consensus is that the Fed in recent decades has been way to the right of the Republican Party. Even Bush I believed that the Fed's right wing policies cost him the 1992 election by increasing unemployment rate.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. 'I am especially happy with what the Fed is doing right now.'
Jamie Dimon, is that you? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-05-09 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
56. See article 1, section 8 of The Constitution.
Internet access is intermittent right now, sorry for the delay.


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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
22. This paragraph summed it up quite well
James Galbraith, in his book, “The Predator State”, explains how our financial elites depend upon misinformation in order to get the American public to acquiesce in their schemes. Specifically, he says that our underlying problem is NOT that the banks aren’t lending much money, but that the American people are loaded with debt. Even if massive handouts to the banks get them to increase lending (which seems unlikely), that wouldn’t erase the massive debts of the American people. In fact, it would add to it, since the American people will ultimately have to pay for the bank bailouts. And Galbraith doesn’t mince words in castigating Treasury Secretary Geithner’s plan:

The plan is yet another massive, ineffective gift to banks and Wall Street. Taxpayers, of course, will take the hit… The banks don't want to take their share of those losses because doing so will wipe them out. So they, and Geithner, are doing everything they can to pawn the losses off on the taxpayer…. In Geithner's plan, this debt won't disappear. It will just be passed from banks to taxpayers, where it will sit until the government finally admits that a major portion of it will never be paid back.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. I almost missed this one and it's one of the best OPs yet, which is saying a lot.
A cool DU journal feature would be for individual posters to be able to send out their journals to a mailing list. If that were to happen I would subscribe to yours TFC. K & R
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Thank you very much glitch
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. Bookmarking

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
30. K & R, bookmarked
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 01:55 PM
Original message
Proud to have long been a voice in the wilderness proffering on this board: Greenspan, a name
which will live in infamy. ;)
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
33. Proud to have long been a voice in the wilderness proffering on this board: Greenspan, a name
which will live in infamy. ;)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Like as in this post
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Wow, had forgotten ever being that vituperative and profane considering my even temper
and good nature except when righteously indignant. ;)
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
34. Proud to have long been a voice in the wilderness proffering on this board: Greenspan, a name
which will live in infamy. ;)
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. K & R! This needs to be posted in GD-P where the denial runs deep.
Edited on Fri May-01-09 02:31 PM by earth mom
:thumbsup:
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. Big K&R ! nt
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
41. I believe US citizens should focus more
of their attention on The Corporations and Banksters. These are the institutions telling the Gov't what to do. We should protest them, because going after our 'representatives' hasn't done much.

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Irish Girl Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Our Representatives are receiving cushy cash flows for their .. discretion.
The government, our currency and our representatives should always be for the people and not for banking corporate interests. I'm still learning but our monetary system seems deeply flawed and fundamentally unsustainable. Inflation has to reach maximum potential at some point before the entire scheme comes crashing down. I fear if citizens can't find a sustainable solution, the banking corporate interests will find one for us. Who benefits?
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. The system is totally unsustainable.
Edited on Sat May-02-09 01:40 PM by femrap
Six of the 19 largest banks in the US are still insolvent. Plus these 'stress tests' were a joke....we long ago passed their assumptions such as unemployment numbers.

Giving all of this money to the Banksters is 'THE BIGGEST HEIST IN THE HISTORY OF THE PLANET EARTH.'

Do not look for the Gov't to help you in any way. We are on our own. As a result, try to invest LOCALLY. Find a local bank, local farmer, local grocer, local baker, etc. I think getting off the grid as much as possible is important. Be as self-reliant as possible. Form local coops. Plant a garden.

This economic demise is far from over. I think I'll get a pitchfork just for symbolic use...lol!

edited for spelling.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
42. Printing to read, as usual. Thank you. nt
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-01-09 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
44. Hot potato for you: What is the relationship of the IRS to the Federal Reserve?
I have read that they are both private corporations, not government agencies.

I would like your take on this. I read Creature from Jekyll Island years ago. I'm aware that this question opens up accusations of "conspiracy theory."

These issues were, in my experience and in the past, not openly addressed by people with your credentials. Mostly, you heard this kind of discussion at right-wing tax protest meetings.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. It's a very confusing issue
"The Creature from Jekyll Island" did have some right wing slant in many ways -- but that doesn't mean that its main thesis, that it is anti-democratic to have an organization with major public responsibilities but no accountability to the people, is not valid.

I never heard that the IRS is a private corporation. Nor have I heard that it has a relationship to the Fed. I'll look into that -- but I can't do it right now.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. For what it's worth: I attended a tax conference in CA, years ago ...
... with Ron Paul in attenance. So that sets the tone. I attended as a curious citizen without any pre-existing agenda, and with a feeling that I would have to hold down my smirking and laughing. A main speaker was a former IRS enforcement officer who becamse a whistle blower against the IRS (and has suffered greatly as a result). I came away with the smirk wiped off my face, but confusion in its place. A lot of what I heard made sense. How could I separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of what to believe?

It is very difficult to wade through all the claims about our tax system, but keeping your intelligent skepticism on the alert with regard to the "official story" is a good idea. Yes, "Creature from Jekyll Island" was written by someone with definite right-wing leanings, but the message needs to be separated out from the philosophy of the author, as much as possible, and the claims examined (which you are doing).

The claim from a lot of tax protest groups is not that they oppose taxes, in general, but that the IRS is a collection agency for the Fed, and that our income tax money goes to private banking interests, and not to run the country. I have read that the same people who created the Fed also created the IRS, very soon after. The claim from many groups is that other taxes, such as alcohol, tobacco, and other sales taxes are the funding source for fixing roads and maintaining the needs of the country. (Remember, I'm just the messenger, and maybe not a very good one.)

If you Google "IRS Federal Reserve relationship," you'll come up with a lot of hits on this subject. The problem for We, the Citizens, in this matter, as well as 9/11 and a host of other issues, is to find the needle of truth in a huge haystack of official obfuscation (for our own good, of course), and to get past the "True Believer Patriot" mentality that is suspicious of *anything* the government does.

I'll be sitting here, holding my breath and turning blue, waiting for you to do the research and get back to me with The Answer! Sir! :patriot:
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
45. i come to late to R but I can kick it a little.
Normally my eyes glaze over when it comes to economic topics but this one was understandable and important.
Thank you again TFC you have become a favorite read of mine.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Ditto.
:kick:
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Coffee and Cake Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
54. If people want more transparency with the Federal Reserve, then support H.R. 1207
H.R. 1207: Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1207
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