7 empty units in my apartment building

[devilgrrl]

I live in West Hollywood, CA. The average rent these days is $1100+ and up. I'm fortunate in that I moved here when prices were reasonable. WeHo has rent control, so I pay much MUCH less than the going price. Out of the 7 vacant units, all but one of my neighbors moved because they could no longer afford the costs. The ones I knew were all wonderful people and I'll miss their presence horribly but the land lord refused to negotiate, so they had to move. :-(

The past few weeks I've been noticing a lot of "For Rent" signs outside of buildings in my neighborhood - I've never seen so many in the eleven years that I've been living here. Yet I keep hearing that prices for housing is getting lower, but no one is lowering their prices for rentals. :crazy:

I'm not trying to make a point or anything, I just thought I'd share a few observations.

Thanks for listening.

[Stephanie]

1. Stores and restaurants are closing like crazy in Manhattan

LOTS of empty storefronts on every block.

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. Landlords = scum of the earth, for the most part

I'll be happier and happier with every one of them who loses their property due to greed for high rents.

[BR_Parkway]

19. Thanks for the broad brush - I really should have pushed those

people out paying low income rents and sold the apts off as more overpriced condos like everyone else did!

There are (not enough) but plenty of us around the country who work with the government to operate low income housing - and yeah, it makes up part of my paycheck to do it. But obviously, in your little world - everyone will be better off if we lose those to our 'greed' - so the banks can boot the tenants and "reposition" the properties with market rate rents to get the most out of them when they sell them off to more greedy individuals.

[Cronus Protagonist]

20. I left plenty of room for exceptions

And only called to task the greedy ones. I think you're sensitive to this complaint for some reason that has nothing to do with what I wrote. Perhaps you feel the brush stroke touched you? If the shoe fits, the brush stroke doesn't need to be broad...

[JVS]

21. Joke from the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution: How do you like your landlord?

Medium rare!

[enough]

3. You would think landlords would rather have SOME money in rent than nothing at all

and an empty apartment to maintain. I don't get their logic.

[devilgrrl]

5. Not only that, they were all decent tenants!

:crazy:

[Fla_Democrat]

28. Oh?

Paid their rent on time?
No complaints, or excessive damage done to the units?
No 3 AM phone calls about a light being out in the fridge?
No neglect of the owners property? 'Yea, the dryer knob broke a month or so ago, so we've been using pliers to turn it on.' So instead of replacing a 75 cent knob, it's now a 75 cent knob, and a $52 timer?

That kind of decent? I'm sure their next landlord will love to have them as tenants. Best of luck to them. :thumbsup:

[devilgrrl]

37. Yes Fla_Dem, you'd have them as neighbors and like them too.

:P

[Fla_Democrat]

42. I've had plenty of neighbors

I wouldn't want as tenants. Heck, I've got a few family members, I wouldn't want as tenants. :hi:

[devilgrrl]

44. These are good tenants, I assure you.

:-)

[Leftist Agitator]

40. On the other hand...

A giant piece of ice on the freezer coils in a fridge from the 70's?

Your problem, tenant.

A flooded basement that I was not told about that ruined half of my stuff?

Your problem, tenant.

High wind that shatters the glass on my screen door, in my face, as I'm trying to close it, because the methhead maintanance guys couldn't be bothered to do their job correctly? (It's a miracle that I only suffered the three bad cuts that I did, incidentally)

Not just your problem, tenant, but now you owe me lots of these ----> $

I could spend hours writing these legitimate grievances up. But unfortunately, I have a shit job to attend tomorrow. I really need two, because I have student loans to the tune of more than your mortgage, but hey, landlords are GREAT FOLKS!

And on that note, I'll see what you have to say...

[Fla_Democrat]

43. Yea, I got a shit job too

doing maintenance on an apartment complex, and some town houses. See, I'm not a "land lord", but I work for two of them. We can compare notes one day about stupid moves on both sides of the table. Like the ditz in a second floor apartment, got up at 6, over flowed the toilet (didn't call, much less turn the cut off valve), went back to bed. Downstairs neighbor called at 10. Yea.

I can't speak for every rental in Tally, much less the country, but I have read the leases when I've had to deliver copies to tenants. (Student market, need copies to prove residence) Seems to me anyone who doesn't know their rights, and responsibilities when entering a contract is asking for trouble down the road.

So, yea, landlords are "GREAT FOLKS!", at least the ones that provide me a job...even tough I'm not a methhead. I've seen the shit that gets shoveled their way, heard the complaints about late/nonpayment of rent. Heard about their insurance tripling, yes, tripling in 2 years, seen the bank note on the desk, and heard the gripes about the property taxes, ordinance fees, and yes, the cost of maintenance.

What strikes me as absurd is the notion that landlords are sitting around lighting their Cuban cigars with hundred dollar bills, and wiping their asses with fiftys, and they are cruel heartless sons of bitches for not operating their business (yes, it is a business, feeds their families and mine)at a loss. No one would dream of walking into a restaurant, ordering a meal, and expecting the place to take less than the agreed upon price cause the patron had a short week. Hey, something is better than nothing. :wtf: Perhaps the people who know how to run rentals better than the actual people who do it for a living, should pool their money, buy some property, and give those mean landlords some competition in the housing market. That would be fun to watch. :popcorn:

There are bad tenants, there are bad landlords. Know your rights, and live up to your contractual obligations, and everything will be smooth. Dunno what's hard about that.

because I have student loans to the tune of more than your mortgage It don't surprise me, I don't have a mortgage. Paid off my land, and built my house out of pocket. Just me and some buddies. (one of the advantage of being in the construction industry for 26 years)However, if it will make you feel better, I can get an appraisal and we can have that wee-wee contest. :evilgrin:

[Baby Snooks]

53. I think the average is one out of five...

I've had five landlords in the past three years. The current one is wonderful. May the gods and goddesses bless him.

The other four? I have no doubt they will rot in hell. If an attorney can figure out a way to do it, I intend to send two of them to hell myself. In Texas, by the way, apparently the only contratual obligation is on the part of the tenant. Not what the law says but what the Texas Apartment Association has convinced all the judges the law says. I suspect it is not much better in other states.

Just the same I would rather deal with a sleazy landlord than a Homeowner's Association. At least with a sleazy landlord you can go rent something else - with a sleazy Homeowner's Association you have to sell your house. Or they will sell it for you. That happens. One here in Houston actually foreclosed on an 81 year old widow. Over what I believe was a $500 maintenance fee. They claimed they gave notice. She claimed they didn't. When she attempted to pay it, having forgotten it, they added thousands of dollars in attorneys fees. And then foreclosed. The Homeowner's Association didn't bat an eyelash. No doubt the attorney for the Homeowner's Association thought he was going to pick up a nice house for nothing. He didn't after an attorney intervened and sued them all. But of course the law has not been changed. So there are probably other 81 year old widows who did lose their home.

Ain't life in America grand?

[aquart]

15. Tax breaks for vacancies.

[Baby Snooks]

39. Actually there is...

Landlords who have vacant apartments just write off the loss as long as they can show the unit previously had been leased for the amount of the loss per unit. But for the average landlord, the loss at some point will not matter because the utilities have to be paid along with the taxes and there is no money coming in to pay with. Not to mention the loan if the landlord doesn't own the property outright. Which many don't.

The same thing is happening all around the country. In Houston there are apartment complexes being built but they will not be occupied but the developers of course were stuck with loans on the land and have to do something so they proceeded to build. Some of the ones built within the past five years are fortunate if they have 50% occupancy. At some point there may be default on loans. That is worrying some - the next implosion may be in the commercial real estate sector.

[aquart]

48. Got a new luxury highrise blocking my kitchen window fireworks view.

No idea who they think is gonna live there.

[Lucky Luciano]

57. Oh the commercial real estate shoe has already dropped big time!

A lot of the writedowns at the banks these days are for commercial more than residential.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

47. No, a rent-stabilized tenant who had a ten-month court fight.

But you are clearly holding a grudge from a previous argument. Since I pay absolutely no attention to the names on the comments, I'm afraid I have no idea what set you off.

But rest assured, you know nothing.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. That is where rent control screws with the market and peoples needs

Most likely they have had the building for a while so it can break even with only some of the apartments being rented. Now they can wait until things get better and not be stuck with low rents they can not raise.

[eleny]

4. NPR did a piece this morning about a military family at Pendleton in CA

They just bought a house because the monthly expenses were much lower than what they were renting on base. Several houses on their block are going into foreclosure because those owners were stuck with ARMs they couldn't afford. But this family could buy since they got a fixed mortgage.

Everything seems topsy turvy.

[havocmom]

11. To deal with budget crunch, Tucson considered tax on renters

Hell, the land owners do not pay the county property taxes out of the goodness of their hearts, they pass the costs on to the renters. When I left there a few years back, AZ still did not give renters any sort of tax credit like property owners get, even though they ARE paying shares of the property taxes.

Guess the Tucson council caught hell for the notion of one more regressive tax on already underpaid/overburdened working class people. http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/290764.php

Yeah, everything is upside down. Workers HAVE to get the parasite rich off our backs. And people need safe housing. Property owners do NOT have a constitutional right to ever growing profits. Why does supply and demand always work for them thats got and never for the bulk of the population? When market is down, wages down, jobs down, DEMAND down, should prices keep going up?

Thinkin celebrating Bastille Day should be more common in the US, just as a reminder of the numbers.

[aquart]

16. Small but tasteful guillotine buttons might make the point.

[d_b]

6. time to throw a loud party.

[riverdeep]

7. California has some of the craziest housing prices there is.

I looked at moving to San Diego (loved the city) a couple of years ago, but the housing was nuts. Until the prices reflect what the average person can afford, I suspect a lot more units and houses will go unclaimed.

[AllentownJake]

8. Supply and Demand

The landlord will either realize he's living in a different time and lower rents or he'll have an empty building he has to pay expenses for.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

9. The building in Irvine where my brother lives is nearly empty,

The thinking by landlords is that with all the foreclosures there will be boom in rental demand, but if the foreclosed couldn't afford their mortgage payment they sure won't be able to afford the same sum in rent.

His lease is up in the middle of August, he is hoping reality has struck the freakish family that manages the building by then.

[virgogal]

10. It's a cycle---they come,they go.

[msongs]

12. gee maybe they can't find decent prospective residents, being scum of the earth and all nt

[aquart]

17. Landlord?

[Quantess]

13. Supply and demand.

The landlord will need to lower the rent, otherwise he'll keep losing money on vacant apartments.

[krispos42]

14. As homeowners lose their homes, they're forced to rent an apartment or room instead

There is suppose to be an inverse relationship between the cost of housing and the costs of renting, I believe.


Of course, if the housing prices drop AND the unemployment rate rises, the renters had better lower their prices to match the new, lower average wages.


In my case, I was cut back to 32 hours a week. I moved out of my 1-bedroom apartment and in with a coworker for half the rent, then when he crapped out on me (the cowardly bastard!) I moved back to the same town I was renting the apartment, except now I'm renting a room for $400 a month, and that includes basic cable and all utilities. And a washer-dryer! :woohoo:

Frankly if I'd known about this 2 years ago I would have done it instead of getting that one-bedroom.

[upi402]

25. House rents are dropping here

I check often as I used to have rentals. This habbit keeps me on alert to trends. There are FOR RENT signs everywhere and they stay up a long time. 3bd 2ba house was $1800 and now you can get one for under $1400 easy. The cost of apartments is not much cheaper and townhouses/condos are only slightly cheaper now.

[Alcibiades]

36. It's not an inverse relationship

Rents and housing prices are supposed to be linked. Landlords are in the same market as folks who are buying single family homes, i.e. the inputs are the same. When homeownership becomes more expensive, rents go up, too--housing is housing, and you can substitute one for the other.

During the bubble, though, the basic relationship between people's income and housing was broken--both landlords and home sellers could ask for more money. as the economic crisis deepens, though, both house prices and rents should go down. Some landlords, the ones who are paying off their mortgages on their rental units, will not be able to lower rents, but many others will.

[krispos42]

49. But now, home ownership is difficult even if it's not expensive

Due to the tightening of credit markets. Therefore the market is tight even if prices are down becaue the number of potential acceptable customers is down. And those potential customers are instead forced to rent.


Or at least it seems to me. :shrug:


Me, I blame the Reagan tax cuts for this shit. We have the rich wads of liquid cash with the sudden and dramatic tax cuts, and of course they bought investments with all that newfound money. Things like... real estate. I recall that 40% of all home sales in 2007 were by people buying or selling a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc., home.

[Alcibiades]

50. Tax cuts are overrated

for putting money into the economy. I blame Greenspan and his loose money policies--20 years of low interest rates created all kinds of bubbles.

Rents may not be going down as much as they should in a bad economy due to increased numbers of folks renting, but I suspect more folks are moving in with relatives, which also decreases housing demand.

[krispos42]

60. Yeah, and all they cut is the income tax...

...of which half the country either doesn't pay or pays very little. NOT Social Security, NOT FICA, not property taxes, sales taxes, or state income taxes.


My income tax freedom day was January 15th, for example.

Kevin Phillips covered this in "Boiling Point" and "The Politics of Rich and Poor", and Ravi Batra in "The Myth of Free Trade".

[Baby Snooks]

52. Just check out the "house mother"

I did this in 2006 and am still recovering from "Audrey II" at "The Little Shop of Horrors" who I trusted on the basis of a "mutual friend" telling me what a "wonderful" person she was - three rooms with a view as I called it. First indication what a "wonderful" person she wasn't was when I went out on my private balcony to smoke and heard this "What are you doing? You cannot smoke on this property. You will need to move immediately. I do not want you here." despite our agreement I could smoke out on the balcony. Never mind the three rooms with a view reeked of cigarette smoke from the previous occupants who I would discover hid their cigarette butts in plastic bags they hid in a bookcase/file cabinet that "came with the room" despite it not going with the room which of course she told me only after I had moved in and asked again when she was going to remove it. Downhill from there. She was a vegan and didn't allow meat in "our" refrigerator, one of the other "housemates" as she called us told me "house mother" as she called herself went nuts when she found a Burger King bag in her waste basket, never mind she had no right to be going through her waste basket, and despite living in her own little home in the back of the property, was constantly "patrolling" to check for Burger King wrappers, cigarette butts after she found out one of the other "housemates" also smoked but went out in the front garden which she also didn't allow and relegated him to his car after she caught him one night, or any number of "violations" she didn't allow on the property. She also decided mate was healthier than coffee and so in the middle of what became a real maelstrom she started throwing out my coffee. In "my" kitchen instead of "her" kitchen per the Texas Property Code per an attorney I had already had to call and would have to keep calling. I would make a cup and then go up to my rooms and then come down and the coffee was gone and she would usually be standing there lecturing me on the evils of coffee. She had cats, I thought six, but in reality about 20 and they were everywhere and ruined an Oriental rug after they decided it made a nice litter box to pee on instead of in and my two cats were terrified because her cats would come and go and one of her cats decided the balcony was "his" balcony and my cats were not allowed on "his" balcony. It was, well, it was "The Little Shop of Horrors." And she was Audrey II. I suspect there are bones buried about in the gardens.

She didn't pay the gas bill the first month so the second month she "cancelled" our agreement of paying the rent twice a month and demanded all the rent on the 1st so she could pay the gas bill she should have paid the previous month and apparently hadn't paid for several months. I refused, she filed an eviction and I found out the Texas Property Code doesn't mean a thing.

About the only pleasant memory I have is her asking me one afternoon if I wanted to just pay the back rent, apparently she hadn't paid the electric bill either, and in the course of attempting to soften me up pointed out the goldfish in the pond and how peaceful it all was and how she would hate for me to leave. I told her I thought the goldfish were wonderful but thought pirahna would probably be more appropriate.

I do miss the "housemates" though. It's nice to have the company. Especially when you have a lunatic for a "house mother." Do check out the "house mother." Talk to neighbors. All her neighbors hated her. And all the cats I didn't know about. All the strays. About 50 in all.

[tomreedtoon]

18. Not only homes, but business spaces in strip malls.

There are closed buildings all over the place. Vacant spots in strip malls. And yet, developers are building even more strip malls and office buildings. Who do they plan to rent to? Martians?

There is no way for small businesses of any kind to make a profit. They will go broke trying to compete with EVIL*Mart. They need more than government support; they need anti-monopoly laws to be created and enforced.

[upi402]

23. Ghost towns around this formerly busy area

This is freaking me out. So many FOR LEASE signs up that many strip malls look like ghost towns. Only second hand stores and grocery stores seem solid. And the grocery stores are filling carts with clearance items to get rid of the mounting overages.

[underpants]

24. 60 Minutes reported on this several months ago-the commercial hammer is about to fall

Locally here in Richmond the area called Innsbrook (office buildings) is 16% empty and it will reach 23% by the end of the year

[imdjh]

26. Time to take your building

I don't know how many units there are, but if it gets to the point of foreclosure, you should be in position to take the building coop or condo. Do your homework on how to get in that position. It might be easier than you think.

[Joe Bacon]

27. I still remember how Howard Jarvis sold Prop 13 to renters!

Jarvis swore up and down that rents would go down if 13 passed. He suckered renters into voting for 13 and then inflation hit in 1980 and rents exploded. That triggered the rent control movement.

[Johonny]

29. a lot of these landlords cant lower their rent

During the crazy housing boom many of these units sold. As long time land owners saw their property soar they decided to cash out. I know most of the complexes (including mine) were sold during the housing boom. Now with the economy crashing the landowner is totally screwed. They bought the place under the impression they would be able to rent the units at X price and now finding that price was way, way over estimated. My rent stay flat this past lease for the first time ever. My GF landlord begged her to stay in her unit but she decided to move to save 400 a month on rent. That place has 5/12 units now empty. I think you're going to see a lot of these rental places go bankrupt soon.

[Zhade]

30. Hey fellow Angeleno!

Us renters just keep getting screwed, right?

[JVS]

31. Ever get the feeling that the market system is not as great at the efficiency thing as claimed?

Or to put it crudely: why is the invisible hand sitting around with its thumb up its ass?

[Joe Bacon]

33. The only thing that works on an invisible hand is the middle finger!

Nothing else works.

[treestar]

32. If capitalism works, the rent should go down

Yeah, don't hold your breathe for that.

[TheMachineWins]

34. Anecdotal evidence from my area, houses sitting empty for 2 years

in all price ranges but the less expensive homes have a lot better chance of selling. One glaring example; a home that sold for $279G 10 years ago has been sitting empty for 2 years as asking price is $700G and rent is $2300 a month. Homes in this area have dropped 35% in appraisal value in the last 2 years so the home listed at 700G is now theoretically worth $455G but the asking price is still up there at $675G.

Peoples greed knows no bounds.

[dysfunctional press]

35. my mother-in-law just sold her house in a "pricey" north-shore area...

it went on the market less than a year ago, with an original listing price of $489,000..selling price- $312,500. the closing is in three days.

[wickerwoman]

46. What pisses me off

is that they tore down the woodlot behind my parents' house where all the neighborhood kids used to play to build 15 McMansions 10 of which are sitting completely empty as we speak.

My brother and I joke about squatting. One of these days we actually might.

[BlooInBloo]

38. You may want to check up on whether the property "owner" is in the hole with the bank....

There have been lots of stories about multifamily foreclosures, and the tenants not being made aware of the situation until they get told to move out with like 48 hours notice.

[earth mom]

45. People are renting rooms-not apartments.

Homeowners can barely afford their mortgages and renters can't afford renting a place of their own.

We've gone back to depression era times for sure. :thumbsdown:

[LeftHander]

51. Those who could afford a home probably bought.....

The rest lost jobs and couldn't afford that amount of rent.

It was a perfect time to beg or borrow a 20% down payment on a deeply discounted home.

I did so and went form paying 715/month plus utilities to a 322 mortgage plus utilities and taxes it still falls short of 715.

[marshall]

54. An upcoming rush to rural America?

Farmhouses and acres of land can be had for very good prices in my area. I have several friends who are chucking the city life for a life of peacefulness. Viva la Green Acres!

[DS1]

55. 3-bedroom part of my house has been doormant for about 6 months

The heating bills forced the people out, again. It's an Oil-based system, but also heats the common area which was horribly insulated. They were right to be pissed, and took off.

[Lucky Luciano]

56. I live in Manhattan (Hell's Kitchen area).

My 1BR is $3,300. I tried to negotiate to resign the lease - they did come in with their price, but not enough. They offered me $3,200 + 1 Free Month + Free Gym - I responded that I would sign the lease with 2 free months and all the rest, but they passed...so I will be moving. I did lose my job, but after 6 months, it looks like I have a really good chance at one firm that will bring in the cash flow again - and it looks like it might be better than before...and that firm will be in the financial district, so I may just move to the financial district, which is cheaper anyway.

[Evoman]

58. My rent just went up from 600 hundred a month to 960 a month.

I live in a city in Canada which is experiencing a boom...and vacancies are at an all time low. So the landlords are getting frisky and killing us with rent increases. The only rule is that they have to tell you six months in advance that they will raise you rent.

Almost a grand to live in a shitty two room apartment in a shitty neighbourhood in a shitty small Canadian city.

[Lucky Luciano]

59. You live near some Canadian Oil Sands companies? nt