I support Obama's decision on the torture photos.

[kid a]

Period.

I've seen enough. I know it happened.
I can imagine the WORST possible torture applied to our "enemies".
I don't need the pictures.

To me, this is not the issue to shout all over DU, "That's the change we can believe in!"

On Obama's health care direction?
That I do not support, and I'm doing all I can to send an armada of protesters, LTTE's and emails to Max Baucus' Helena office this next week.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Well then you don't have to look at them.

Of course, it's not Obama's decision to make. It's the court's decision and they already made it. This is probably more chess playing from the Obama administration cutting off charges from the RW that they'll inflame the ME.

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. I disagree. We owe it to the victims of torture to have their story told.

[Echo In Light]

And AMERICA needs to be reminded further of its responsibility, which is diminished by this move

[bdamomma]

8. oh I'm sure we will hear about those who were tortured and raped.

after hearing I will probably do this: :puke:

[Echo In Light]

12. In the M$M? Are you serious?

[bdamomma]

23. maybe not from our MSM but another international news media.

and those who were tortured will come forward, those who were lucky enough to be let go. Didn't 60 Minutes do a story recently about detainees.

[Warpy]

29. These photos will eventually be released

many years from now and after the scumbags are mostly dead.

I would, however, be in favor of a suit to have them entered as evidence in any war crimes trial of that administration, here or abroad.

It's a double edged sword. Releasing them now without restriction would make things more difficult overseas. We want our military home, not dead. However, it would also increase the number of people supporting the trial and conviction of the last administration for their crimes against humanity.

It all boils down to a question of whether you'd be willing to sacrifice other people's children in order to try to get the guilty punished more quickly, or whether you'd rather let the guilty live in terror for a few years until those children are safely home.

[mbperrin]

41. So put our military folks on planes and boats this afternoon and bring 'em home.

They should never have been in either place to start.

[countingbluecars]

3. I'm inclined to agree with you

I would like to hear what those who have loved ones serving now have to say.

[RetroLounge]

4. "That's the change we can believe in!"

:puke:

RL

[countingbluecars]

16. Sorry

replied in wrong place

[derby378]

5. Understood - but it still looks like they've got something to hide

I can appreciate the revulsion at the thought of being confronted with those images, though.

Still, I think more right-wingers should be forced to see what they've supported all these years. Starting with Lindsey Graham.

[Zen Democrat]

6. I'm right with you. Don't need to see torture photos -- need to see single payer health coverage.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. The world needs to see them for the same reason it needs to see pictures of the Holocaust.

This can not be swept under the rug in the name of "national security".

[bdamomma]

11. those pictures will probably be as bad as Holocaust pic tures too.

[cali]

26. as bad as skeletal bodies stacked by the thousands?

As bad as pits full of naked bodies while naked people wait to be the next layer? I certainly hope not.

[bdamomma]

34. this is as equally bad.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5635348

[Vehl]

15. well said!

If we do not know what was done on our names...whats the guarantee that it will not happen again ?

[bdamomma]

35. it will happen again if it doesn't come into light.

another similar horrific situation is genocide.

[Dhalgren]

21. I would like to "rec" your post, TyL.

You are exactly right. The crimes committed have to be brought to light and the criminals brought to justice. I am disappointed in this "Democratic" administration - not shocked, but disappointed...

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Kid a. While i disagree with you on the photos, i agree with you

(I think) on health care.

Are you in Montana and if so, care to combine efforts?

[CoffeeCat]

10. This isn't about what any of us wants to "see"...

This is about what happened in our name. It's about "We The People" understanding
what happened to other human beings--in the name of OUR government.

I'm sure people didn't need to see pictures of the Nazi concentration camps.
I'm sure people were uncomfortable with the horrific pictures of dead bodies post-Katrina.

These pictures are about exposing evil---so we can correct it.

How do we protest or make right---if we don't even know the extent of what went wrong.

We need to know--definitively.

If these pictures are not shown--then we are covering for the criminals who allowed this to happen.

We must not only know the truth---we must see it, so we can face it and do what is necessary to prosecute and help the victims.

[truebrit71]

13. I vehemently disagree. We all need to see what was done in our name.

We need to see the SHAME that has been brought on this great country by crooks and liars in the republican party..and we need to investigate and prosecute the lot of them...Fuck this 'inside the beltway' "we don't want to look backwards" nuanced bullshit...CRIMES were committed and the criminals need to face justice...

[Marr]

14. Sickening.

How quickly some people will adjust their idea of "right" to suit the moment.

[tularetom]

17. Obama knows these photos will eventually be made public

And when they do and the shit hits the fan nobody will blame him for releasing them.

He knows what he's doing. Everybody who doubts it needs to chill.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. So he's covering his ass? What happened to "The Buck Stops here." ?

[bigtree]

18. so, where's the deterrent to future administrations considering torture?

Will we cover up their abuses as well?

Coupled with the reluctance to push for prosecutions, this is just another nail on the lid the Obama administration has decided to put on the Bush era abuses.

[Echo In Light]

22. No prosecution = Precedent established = Mission Accomplished

[historian]

39. best reply yet

now the doors are open for future crimes with no hope of justice being administered. In the name of the law too!

[annabanana]

20. Appoint a Special Prosecutor and I will stop agitating for the photo release.

I promise.

[bdamomma]

24. I second that appointment.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[struggle4progress]

27. I think I'll wait until the Administration actually announces its POV, instead of basing my opinions

on corporate media reports quoting an anonymous source

[madfloridian]

32. Gibbs is announcing it now.

.

[rucky]

28. What would be the purpose of releasing them?

I'm still open to this, but we already know we tortured - everyone knows.

The photos would just serve to agitate things.

We need to move forward with prosecution, and we should be able to do that with what's already public. Someone needs to get on the stick, because I think the anger about this stems from a suspicion of a cover-up.

But it's not the release of these photos that's making people lose trust - it's the inaction that's making people question any move.

[FiveGoodMen]

37. "The photos would just serve to agitate things" -- Yes, and they should be on billboards!

If 'Murkins weren't so desensitized, we'd never have gone along with these awful crimes.

Lots of people said, "Well, I don't approve of torture ... usually ... unless there's a good reason ... Jack Bauer ... um, it probably wasn't really BAD torture."

Everyone needs to see these.

[historian]

40. agitate? good

We need more of that. Agitation and e ceaseless e mail bombarding - lets stir up things absolutely. or are we to be content for the rest of our mediocre lives with our suv's and 60' tv's?

[Raineyb]

42. People need to see what was done in our name

Sanitizing it by hiding the pictures is not acceptable. It just isn't.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. If there's no need to release them because everybody knows what's on them...

why would they agitate things?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[madfloridian]

31. It was a FOIA request. I disagree with you.

Does that mean those requests are meaningless now?

[Soylent Brice]

33. i don't. n/t

[historian]

36. go back in time a bit

During the Nuremberg trials, the nazis, goering in particular, were cocky and sure nothing would come out of all this fuss. Certainly some bad things happened as they always do in wars, but obeying orders was not a crime. When the prosecution then showed movies of the brits liberating (dachau?) there was a visible slump in the nazis attitude. They were indignant that such a movie could be shown, and even goering lost some of his bluster. The nuremberg trials demanded new laws to be created since it was unheard of to prosecute someone for following orders and so we have conspiracy to start war of aggression and crimes against humanity. Strangely enough (and I say this sarcastically) the crimes bush and cheney committed were in fact the same as the ones which the nazis were accused of, followed by visual proof, why shouldnt we do the same? show those pics and have the ra ra bring out the flag america can do no wrong idiots wallow in their own stupidity.
Oh but this petty going after them. Lets move . Move on?????? oh i see forget the past as a temporary aberration and lets go on our merry way. Now i know what to if ever accused of a crime. But your honor this happened last week. Lets move on. At which point the judge uses his gravel and proclaims "case dismissed!
Perhaps few have noticed that the actual crimes themselves have been buried under a mountain of rhetoric but the the fact is simple: it is more than clear that bush and his cronies committed crimes and perjury (lying to the people when under oath to protect the constitution) and should be sent to trial. If found guilty, send them to sing sing to spend a few years with bubba who hasnt seen some nice new white ass in a looooooooooooong time!

[madfloridian]

38. More details...FOIA request from ACLU

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30725189/

"The American Civil Liberties Union has sought the release of the photos and won a lawsuit against the U.S. government before the federal appeals court in New York. The only legal option left to the government was to appeal the decision to the Supreme Court. Instead the Obama administration had earlier made the decision to end the appeals and release the photos.

Click for related content
Daily Nightly: U.S. military to release prisoner photos
Obama set to revive military commissions

Through an arrangement with the court, the Pentagon was preparing to release, by May 28, two batches of photos, one of 21 images and another 23. The government also had told the judge it was "processing for release a substantial number of other images."

The ACLU criticized the decision.

"The decision to suppress the photos is profoundly inconsistent with the promise of transparency that President Obama has made time after time," ACLU lawyer Jameel Jaffer said."

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Bear witness

oh wait, this is a classic denial response

Americans should be forced to face these people... and see what we have done... not only now, but across the last fifty years.

[Ignis]

45. 30% of Americans still don't believe it happened.

The photos are not for you, they are for that 30% of the population who believe that American can do no wrong.