Here is a reason to release photos

[uppityperson]

This young man was recently convicted of numerous counts of murder and rape for what he did while in the military in Iraq.


This is the only known picture of Abeer al Janabi, the 14 yr old he raped, murdered and set on fire after murdering her mother, father, little sister.


He confessed to his sergeant right after he did this but it was covered up until 2 other military people (Tucker and Menchaca) were kidnapped, killed, and their heads kicked around in the street in retaliation for Abeer and her family.

Graphic photos at this link of Tucker and Menchaca

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/183865.php

After Tucker and Menchaca were beheaded, and the photos released, there was outrage in the USA "HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN!!!!!!"

Investigation says in retaliation for the al Janabi's. So Green and his buddies were arrested, his sergeant given less-than-honorable discharge. The buddies got up to 90 yrs in prison, though eligible for parole in 7-10. Green has been convicted and deliberations as to his punishment are happening now.

Does anyone here truly believe the Iraqis do not know what happened at Abu Ghraib? Does anyone here truly believe many Americans do not know what happened at Abu Ghraib?

I say no to the first, yes to the second.

I see releasing these pictures as a step towards holding those responsible who are responsible, in showing the rest of the world that, like for Abeer, we will not just let it go.

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

[uppityperson]

5. thank you nt

[leftstreet]

2. What kind of sick f**ker does something like this?

AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!!!!111

:puke:

[uppityperson]

3. "war is hell" is no excuse. This case is very personal to me

I do not know any of them personally, but it very much hits home

[tomm2thumbs]

4. guess we showed them!

just sick - entirely sick and these people rooting for coverups were all running our government like their own private country club

[peacetalksforall]

6. Thank you for this. May I make one suggestion. Do not single out Abu Graib.

We know there are other prisons. Possible locations for torturing: Romania, Poland, Egypt, on or more of the countries ending in 'stan, Diego Garcia, Afganistan, how many more?

Perhaps the torture at Abu Graib was less than in some of these places. The more secret they are, the more suspect.

Abu Graib is a household word. Now is the time to emphasize the other locations including the portion of Cuba 'owned' by the U.S. (for which Castro will not accept payments).

Everyone, the attention is focused right now - don't just reference Abu Graib and Gitmo. Even though we've seen the pictures of AG and not Gitmo - we need to mention the other prisons. We're not necessarily talking about the people of these countries taking care of the torture itself, but they are hosting SOMETHING. Let's snot hide it.

Thanks again for putting this thread together.

[uppityperson]

17. I agree, the whole kit and kaboodle needs looking at.

And not just the Steven Greens, but up the ladder also

[dgibby]

7. Thank you, thank you , thank you!

Trying to withhold this reminds me of a cat trying to cover up his mess on a marble floor. It just gets the cat's feet dirty,then gets spread around, makes a bigger mess, and STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN! And gawd help the poor soul who has to give the cat a bath!

[pleah]

8. K&R

[slipslidingaway]

9. knr n/t

[Echo In Light]

10. K&R

[Bluerthanblue]

11. well, I understand what you are saying- and do think that the pictures

SHOULD be made public, at some point- I'm not sure that now is the critical time.

The press conference I read said something about Pres.O being concerned about the release of the photo's possibly compromising the prosecution of torture- I'm no lawyer and don't really understand the ins and outs- but it seems to me that there is some wisdom working here.

Can you imagine what the photos of Abeer's murder would look like? I can- and the murders of her family? Somehow I don't think that the killing of 2 troops in response would appease the rage that those non-existent photos could ignite.

Pres.O's job is also to make decisions the keep our soldiers out of any undue danger too. Many of those serving now had nothing to do with the torture that was done- but they are the ones who would face the response- The use of torture - enhanced interrogation as used by the military under * has stopped under this administration.

I guess maybe it's that I believe the photos ARE going to be seen eventually- the fact that they still exist is pretty telling. If Obama was going to bury them, if he was just going to kiss off on the entire issue, I don't think he'd have given them any more press. The memo's are out- and they are plenty of evidence to demonstrate crimes have been committed. The pictures can become public in time.

maybe I'm wrong. It just seems like we are addicted to outrage- I'm going to with-hold mine, for a little while. I'm outraged by the torture itself. I believe it must be prosecuted and that is still a work in progress- We should focus on that, not on the photos not on cheeney's "what if it works"- not on "who knew (Pelosi)- but on the acts themselves- the people involved, the victims and how to bring about some kind of justice.


:shrug:

At least Abeer and her family have not been forgotten. For what that's worth.

[noamnety]

12. K&R

Torture in the prisons in Iraq was rampant, and the photos were spread around the troops without any consequences for a long time. I know this from a vet who stayed at my house a short time and was telling me she'd seen the photos, they were just passed around her unit.

It wasn't until the photos were made public that the outrage was enough that we were able to demand a response.

As long as no new "outrage" is released, no new action (including prosecution) will be required.

If we had a firm commitment that we would be prosecuting people at the highest level for war crimes, I would feel differently. I would consider the request for release to be a demand for more war porn. However, the general mood of the CIC seems to be that we should "look forward, not back," and I view the refusal to release photos to be consistent with that wrong-headed approach.

[choie]

13. oh my God K&R

[choie]

14. and what the fuck happened to the sergeant who covered this up?

did he get a promotion????? son of a bitch

[uppityperson]

16. He was discharged with less-than-honorable discharge.

[Uncle Joe]

15. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, uppityperson.

[Swamp Rat]

18. k&r

[magellan]

19. Damn straight. K&R

[livefreest]

20. exactly. prosecution of those who ordered these treatments is the only thing

that can undercut Al Qaeda's propaganda that America stands for torture and violation of Muslims' rights. I think now Al Qaeda will be able to say " see President Obama is still covering up".

[flyarm]

21. tHANK YOU AND I ADD..THE ONLY SAFETY OUR SOLDIERS AND AMERICANS HAVE ..IS

WITH TRUTH. And rule of law!!
The rest of the world knows exactly what happened and the Iraqi's damn well know what happened..their families know ..this bullshit of still holding back the photos is a kabuki dance around truth to protect the bush junta, repukes and some dems..The only people who know little about the torture are Americans.

The cover up of these photos does not make any American safe. That thought is fools gold!

[Usrename]

22. k&r

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. For the record, unlike his buddies, he is facing the death penalty

the indictment is under the 1997 war crimes act...

Oh and IMHO we need to prosecute those who gave the orders... but we won't

Long live the empire :sarcasm:

[glowing]

24. Don't these other photos supposedly show rape of women.. Isn't that

how the Iraqi people found out what was going on at Abu Ghraib? Oh, and when does the media do the story on all the little half American/ half Iraqi children running around?

[ananda]

25. Our foundation is rotten to the core.

When something as fundamentally evil as torture
is tacitly condoned by inaction in prosecuting
those who approved it and perpetrated it, the
entire country becomes sick and rotten to the core.

The only way to cure the cancer that consumes us
is to cut it out whole, the entire mass and all
the little mets as well... from the inside out
and the top down.

[uppityperson]

26. kicking since I've been accused of things elsewhere and want my views known

[William769]

27. K & FUCKING R!

[G_j]

28. continuing Bush policy of secrecy and concealment hurts our rep

badly. This is the way the rest of the world will see Obama's decision, as a continuation of Bush/Cheney.