A Simple Question About The Ticking Time Bomb Torture Scenario

[Yavin4]

Why would the tortured terrorist tell you the correct location of the bomb? Wouldn't the terrorist just give you a false location and send your police force to an incorrect location on a wild goose chase thus ensuring that the bomb will explode?

[dgibby]

1. Bingo!

[mmonk]

2. Yes.

Jack Bauer is fiction.

[FiveGoodMen]

6. "Jack Bauer is fiction"

AND Jack Bauer is propaganda.

(Maybe we should catapult him)

[mmonk]

11. Liberty Stickers has a bumper sticker

that says "torture Kiefer".

[FiveGoodMen]

16. That's an ... eclectic ... site.

Along with ...

We used to call them public servants
Dear public servant: Please stop helping me! (w/ pic of police brutality)
Read the Constitution

...They've got...

Obama: You'll get used to socialism
Global Warming is Bullshit
Government Ruins the Economy, Freedom Takes the Rap

Some for us, some for the freepers.

[mmonk]

21. It's libertarian. Therefore the seemingly mixed messages.

I go there for it's constitutional stickers or its founding fathers quotes bumper stickers (pick and choose).

[mmonk]

22. Also, I ordered some stickers from there, one that was anti-McCain

and one that was against the religious right and their culture war along with some other stickers and the package when delivered had been opened with a razor blade and those two were removed and then the package taped back with clear box tape.

[FiveGoodMen]

24. WTF?!

[Echo In Light]

3. If our species makes it another 1000 yrs (I give us less than 20) you'll never actually see this....

...scenario play itself out. It's a justifying, fabricated construct from the same minds who brought you every horror and deception of the last eight yrs

[soryang]

10. Exactly

If one studies actual terrorist bombings, they are usually planned weeks in advance, if not months, have numerous operational indicators and have already been detected, if not actually encouraged by one or more state sponsor agencies who have a political agenda to satisfy. Along the way, the planners have been compromised by intelligence operatives or informers and in many cases have been funded and armed by the target sovereign covert agents.

[mmonk]

14. Also, they are compartmentalized so that they

all do not know the whole of the operation. So torturing one would not get one very far if torture worked.

[soryang]

19. The guy on the ground usually doesn't even know who is...

...pulling his strings. As I say, it is usually one or more governments and agencies, who then act outraged by the event, and assign blame and motives to play out a political script.

[libgrrrl]

4. and....

That's assuming the detainee in question is a terrorist at all and if they are a terrorist, if they are privy to any valuable information. It's chilling to think of the individuals who were tortured that would have given up every bit of information they had if they were actually al-qaeda operatives.

[Taverner]

5. If I had my mind poisoned with Wahhabism thats what I would do...

[RandomThoughts]

7. If you needed to rob a bank

to get money to save a bunch of people from getting hurt.

Should all bank robberies be allowed? (and most likely the robbery will not even work)

The whole ticking time bomb argument is to change what was done.

They were rounding up people in Iraq, and elsewhere, and using these methods on them. The ticking time bomb is not the scenario they were in.

Furthermore, they tortured to get false information so they could invade Iraq, causing more harm to US Security. It was to get justification for a war of aggression, another war crime.

When you hear the ticking time bomb argument, it is irrelevant, because that was not what was happening.

Furthermore, if you do break the law because something is so important, you better get it right, they did not. So taking that first line as the example, they never even robbed the bank to stop people from getting hurt.

Its a false argument to cloud the issue. And to create the worst possible situation so people can justify torture, then once that is in someones mind, they can associate it with what they did, torture to get a reason to go to war in Iraq.


Should we have invaded USSR because they boycotted the Olympics, then say, yea but wouldn't you do it to stop a Europe invasion? The way the ticking thing is being used is to change the thoughts in peoples minds, mostly with fear.

[Echo In Light]

9. "a false argument to cloud the issue."

Well stated

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. Yes, duh

I've argued that point with wingnuts several times, but they hate being confused by facts.

[gratuitous]

12. Oooh, it would be a wily terrorist who did that!

And now you've given them the perfect dodge!

Another problem with our old friend the Ticking Time Bomb Scenario is how in the world we know so much about our detainee, yet we don’t know the crucial stuff. For example, we know he’s a bad guy. Know it without a doubt. He’s a terrorist all right. But we apparently don’t know who any of his terrorist pals are. Now, you might think that knowing somebody’s a terrorist, they’d be watched for a little while. You’d find out where he goes, what he does, who he hangs around with. But nope, we don’t know any of that. But we somehow know he’s a terrorist. A tattoo, maybe?

We don’t have any information on his recent activities, but we do know he’s planted a time bomb, and it’s ticking madly away. We don’t know where he’s been, what his habits are, nothing like that. But by golly, we know he planted a bomb somewhere. It’s that little tic he gets in his left eye or something.

Or maybe he’s one of those helpful terrorists. You know, just came waltzing into the cop station, announced his vocation as terrorism, and his last activity as planting a time bomb. But after divulging all that, he clams up. Won’t say another word. Some bleeding heart probably read him his Miranda rights, and now he wants a lawyer and stuff or he won’t tell us anymore. So it’s time to break out the truncheons, rubber hoses, phone books, alligator clips, and all the rest of the torture paraphernalia hanging around in the cop shop.

Yeah, anyone bringing up this far-fetched scenario really deserves a healthy horselaugh rather than any kind of serious discussion.

[Fuzz]

13. I can understand the compulsion for revenge. If my family was in danger

I would do whatever I could, and I mean whatever, to get them out of that danger. If I had someone in my sights that I knew was responsible, I would put my life at risk and attempt anything on that person to get them back.

BUT, that situation is HIGHLY unlikely AND it really isn't a responsible way to make government policy. Why? It's based on emotion and not facts and responsible justice. Just like the death penalty.

We, as humans, are all capable of destruction and horrible acts, obviously. Justice, as handed out by governments are supposed to be blind and logical and not subject to mob rule mentality.

I'd be willing to subject myself to whatever punishment necessary for my actions, those who broke the laws on torture should also.

[On the Road]

15. It's a Moot Question

I doubt there has ever been a single example of the kind of ticking time bomb scenario that's used as justification. You have to go lurid Hollywood movies like Face/Off to come up with one.

[muntrv]

17. No, the tortured terrorist will give the correct answer. "24" says so.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[subterranean]

18. Tom Tomorrow, in case you missed it...

[BadgerKid]

20. Reminiscent of a Die Hard movie. n/t

[whyverne]

23. I had to rush my kid to the hospital,

on the way I ran a red light. Running red lights should be legal.
If it was a "ticking time bomb" you would torture anyway and screw the law.
But that's not what this argument is about, is it?