Releasing torture pics would endanger US troops? Too bad.

[Hugabear]

Maybe the Pentagon should have considered the consequences of authorizing torture. This is precisely why torture has always been considered a bad idea! It doesn't work, and it sends the signal that it's okay for our enemies to use these tactics on our own troops.

I'm not wishing harm on our troops, but we should have to face whatever consequences might arise from our actions. Maybe next time, some chickenhawk administration will think twice about giving the green light on this type of activity.

[noamnety]

1. I'm with you on that.

The endangerment isn't from releasing photos, it's from having tortured in the first place. Wish more people got that very basic idea.

[Obamanaut]

2. It is not "we" upon whom retaliation may descend, but rather the

troops about which you say "too bad."

Not all the troops are evil. Most, in fact, are not. They are our children, our cousins, sisters, brothers, and in some cases our parents.

[nomorenomore08]

6. That's the point - that our government's foreign policy in and of itself has put soldiers

in harm's way. Trying to cover up the unsavory stuff now does little good in that regard, and saying that releasing photos, documents, etc. will "endanger our troops" is disingenuous to the extreme. When you do wrong, you can't claim that eliminating evidence makes the wrong disappear - it doesn't, and shouldn't, work that way.

[Obamanaut]

23. I certanily did not mean that the evil stuff should be covered up. I

think sunshine is good for festering sores. I was more concerned with the harm to the troops and the too bad all on one line, followed by "we."

I want no harm to come to any of the troops. For the most part they are (see my earlier post.) But when we say that "we should pay" (or words to that effect) and "we" are comfortable in front of our keyboards, that is wrong.

The planners should pay. The actual perpetrators should pay. If "we" were among them, "we" should pay.

My apologies if I gave the wrong impression.

[nomorenomore08]

24. I don't want any more American service members to be killed or tortured either.

And not holding the "actual perpetrators" responsible is an insult to those who have been. I never meant to imply that you believed otherwise.

[Obamanaut]

30. We're good. Thanks. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

14. well said. And most had nothing to do with torturing- saying "too bad" is

not unlike the mindset of those who JUSTIFY torture.

The outrage on this site is not noble or justifiable. If IF Obama said he wanted to destroy the photos- I'd be outraged. He hasn't said that.

What the hell is wrong with us?

:shrug:

[DURHAM D]

3. This troop harming claim is just stupid.

It ain't like the people we are fighting aren't already aware of the situation and it ain't like they aren't already using torture on our captured troops.

Give me a break...

[Bluerthanblue]

17. maybe you don't give a shit about the troops- I'm glad Obama does,

and that he's postponing the release of the photos for the sake of the troops.

The photos WILL have an impact- far beyond what you think. I'm certain of this. It's one thing to imagine what has happened, it's quite another to see it in black and white.

[DURHAM D]

20. "maybe you don't give a shit about the troops" straw man drivel

And an insult. So you can just bite me.

As for the photos - you have an opinion. That is all.

So, in my opinion, your opinion is just your opinion. Its not a fact - except, I gather, in your own mind. (Do you have a link?)

But that's just my opinion. Which is just as good as any other opinion, including your opinion.

[frylock]

21. It ain't like the people we are fighting aren't already aware of the situation..

try reading the post again.

[onenote]

25. and people here are aware of the situation

obviously there are many many people in pakistan, afghanistan, iraq, iran, etc that have not experienced the abuses nor have they seen photos. Sure, they may have heard about it. But the same can be said of us here -- we know about it even if we haven't seen the photos. But its extremely naive to think that the photos themselves wouldn't serve as an effective recruiting tool. And while they need to be released at some point, its not clear that this is the appropriate time.

Try thinking about it this way: should crime scene photos of murder, rape, child abuse be made public? If a cop sexually abuses someone in his custody, should those photos be made public before there is a formal investigation?

[Bluerthanblue]

29. thank you for saying

in a calm rational manner what i can't say without losing it.

You said it very well.

thank you.

[Bluerthanblue]

27. why does PLAYBOY sell? Why did they censor the pictures of the 'jumpers'

at the WTC? Why do you think cheney fought so hard to NOT allow any pictures of flag draped coffins to be shown. We all knew the jumpers jumped- that x number of dead came home, that Pamela Anderson has big boobs- why do pictures have such impact ???

Pictures speak what words cannot.

I read the OP several times. It doesn't change what I said- the pictures WILL outrage people. If they didn't something would be wrong with us. There impact can't be ignored- and the OP's comment of "too-bad" is cold and wrong. I don't want the pictures destroyed. But I'm not stupid enough to think they aren't going to cause big problems, and the ones who stand to pay with their lives are people who didn't authorize the torture or participate in it. "too bad" eh?

fucking yes- ! That sounds too much like people justifying the fact that many if not MOST of those in Guantanamo are there innocently- "too bad" for them too?????

If this is an example of what 'the good side' is like, then screw all of us.


:nuke:

[mitchum]

4. Occupation of foreign lands endangers US troops far more

[blogslut]

5. The Pentagon did not authorise torture

Bush did. The Pentagon was acting on orders from their commander-in-chief.

I am torn about Obama's decision to appeal the ruling on the release of the photos. On one hand, we (as a people) need to see what was done in our name. On the other hand, our validity as an honorable nation (in the eyes of the world) is hanging by a frayed thread.

[Hepburn]

10. Remember Nuremberg....???

That defense does NOT work. If the Pentagon followed orders from that POS Bush which allowed for torture, yes, they put the troops in peril.

"I was just following orders..." is bullshit and immoral.

JMHO

[blogslut]

19. I understand that

The point being is that they were, indeed, following orders. I am not a soldier nor an officer. I have no idea what it would be like to disobey the orders of my commander, although I do know that refusal to follow an order is an actionable crime in US military code.

I agree that there are many persons complicit in these war crimes. I agree that the perpetrators, enablers and architects of torture-as-policy must be brought to trial.

[chrisa]

11. The Pentagon knew what was going on.

Bush is just their fall guy, who they threw under the Bush over and over again to deflect the blame. They were enablers to the torture. They're just as guilty.

[Zhade]

7. Just bring them home, then. We never should have been there in the first fucking place.

NT!

[nomorenomore08]

8. Can't disagree with that, not one bit...

nt

[Towlie]

9. Obama claims the pictures are "not particularly sensational". If that's true then why hide them?

By hiding them, he only invites skepticism that they are truly "not particularly sensational", and thereby enrages those who might harm our troops. Wouldn't it be better to expose those "not particularly sensational" photos and defuse the situation?

[Zodiak]

13. I normally do not ask this

But could you please provide a link to that?

Because from the sound of it, the lying has begun. You cannot say the photos are "not sensational" and at the same time claim that releasing them will put our troops under further danger.

[Hepburn]

16. Here:

The photos are not "sensational," Obama said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-photos14-2009may14,0,7759867.story

The quote is about 1/4 of the way down the page.

[Towlie]

26. No problem. Here's one of many videos on YouTube. The quote starts at 26 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Y0c--VgAo

[unblock]

12. *occupying coutries that don't want us there* endangers our troops!

although you're also correct, authorizing torture also endangers our troops.

[GoldenOldie]

15. You think the Pentagon gives a shit about the troops?

You lump the troops in with "The Pentagon?" The Pentagon is just a building where assholes with big egos along with big bucks, sit on their asses and protect and defend no one but themselves. The actual troops are the sons and daughters of the working class, who got caught up in their naive patriotism and/or were unable to find employment. There are no longer Generals/Commanders who insure that the actual support of their men/woman, with training, equipment, medical/mental/moral care, their responsibility. Is it your opinion that the troops should be made to pay for the actions of the Bush/Cheney Administration if we are unable to bring the true traitors to justice?

[Brooklyns_Finest]

18. Too bad.

You first discount concerns that releasing the pictures would cause harm to out troops as their problem, then you say that you are not advocating violence against our troops. You then go on to state that WE should face the consequences of our actions, as if you will face any consequences. There is no WE in the equation. The people who would be retaliated against are the guys in theater. Since it was the CIA who conducted the interrogations, why should we act in a way that would only harm US service members?

Thank god our president listens to the commanders (which Bush didn't) on the best course of actions when it comes to the safety of our troops.

[ecstatic]

22. Thank goodness Obama isn't that selfish or short sighted nt

[BuyingThyme]

28. kcik