What if the CIA plays hardball with Pelosi, and Pelosi fights back?

[bottomtheweaver]

What if she calls for a special prosecutor to seriously look into CIA malfeasance, and all their crimes came out? What if their crimes include 911, the Kennedy assassinations, foreign and domestic death squads, drug sales in US cities, and other horrors?

Would we the people high five Pelosi, kick the freakin monsters into prison, and abolish their criminal agencies, or would the spooks fight back and nuke DC?

My guess is, we'd say good riddance to bad rubbish and nominate Pelosi for president in 2012. What's your guess? :shrug:

[RandomThoughts]

1. You are thinking of an agency as a single thing.

I would guess,

It is a mix of many people. It is not just one entity. And each of those people have different strengths and different weaknesses. Some are good more often then bad, some are bad more often then good.

Just like any other organization.

So at the same time that it seems they stretched the truth, they can also be completely honorable, because it depends on the situation, and the individuals involved.

And they are still Americans, and I would guess, they understand better then most Americans, what it means to work and sacrifice for the principles of freedom and democracy, including the concepts of elections, checks and balances, and upholding the Constitution.

So the bad press is probably frustrating for most of them, but I bet they understand it.

[bottomtheweaver]

3. What bad press? They own the press.

Thanks for the cordial answer, and I agree that the CIA at this point is a synecdoche for a vast network of public and private agencies, mostly invisible, but I disagree that they're "just like any other organization." They are not accountable in any meaningful way to the public or, as Pelosi's experience shows, to Congress, and their domestic covert operations are illegal under any number of US laws that they are not beholden to, meaning they are a lawless, unaccountable, invisible thug outfit well beyond the control of most Presidents, as Obama's knee-bending recently demonstrated. They serve the plutocracy at our expense and while good people may be employed by the intel industry the industry itself is a criminal enterprise, as Valerie Plame and others have discovered.

[truedelphi]

16. The CIA owns the press. Some news reporters might not realize how much they are used by the Masters

The Universe, but even Cutie Pie Katie Couric came out least year and explained that she wasn't allowed to ask tough questions about the Bush Administrations.

Going back decades there has been a strong correlation between the advertising industry in America, the newspapers, television and radio stations. Heads of major ad agencies would have yearly meetings with the FBI.

And one has to wonder about the control SOMEONE has over at C Span. I just was watching the talking heads there expalining how Nancy Pelosi, by constantly bringing the Torture pic topic to the fore this week, is making America less safe, as our fighting men and women are so distracted by the topic that none of them would be able to answer a Def Com alert due to this distraction.

Huh? Nancy Pelosi was attacked over this issue - and yet the talking heads have all been instructed to keep on throwing it at Pelosi. You'd think she had been President and that she had ordereed the torture polciies.

[RandomThoughts]

22. By saying they were just like any other organization

I was commenting on the context of the statement I made before saying that.

I was not saying they were like every organization in every way.

As far as your comment about illegality, or lack of accountability, it is up to the American people to change that if that change is desired.

As far as being beyond the control of the politicians, or serving the plutocracy, or it being a criminal enterprise, you have to look at what makes power, or what makes anything powerful

And what that is, is people believing they have power. It is true that an elected official only has power over something that does what it says, or is held in account when it does not.

That is true for CEO's the Plutocracy, and the CIA itself. There is a thought that power just exist by a system, the truth is power exist, when people do what that power asks, and when the rules of that system are enforced on those that do not. And that enforcement is more then the responsibility of just a leader, it is also the responsibility of every citizen in society.

How could the CIA get news reporters to spin a story(if they do), or create a program that is not in the interest of Americans? The only way that can happen is if someone agrees to do whatever the thing is. And that is the same way corporate interest get things done, by getting people to agree to do something.

The method can be money, it can be intimidation, it can be agreed upon same ideology, or it could be respect of a societal system, but in any case, in every system, power is simply having people willing to do what you ask them to do. Which is why people thinking 'if it is what they want to be', gives them power to do what they feel is best, and not just what someone says to do.

If the Media boss asked a reporter to spin, many would do it for one of the above reason, those that did not, might be enforced to do it by being removed from TV. See how the TV executives can maintain power. If a CIA asked and asset to spin a story, many might do it for the above reason, if they didn't maybe the CIA, would then pull strings in TV executives to put pressure to get them off tv, another way to maintain power. And if a person on TV spins, the American people can put pressure to get them off TV the same way.

But in all these cases(if the spinning is wrong) it takes desire for money first, or lack of courage for the person on TV to do anything like that. And when someone stands up for what they think is right, sometimes it can cost them a bit in money or opportunity. But the cost of selling out on the big issues of what is right and wrong, is much higher.

So maybe they do the things you say they do. But it is because other people agree to do things asked or paid to do, not because they have some intrinsic power on their own. If they are not held to account as you say, then it is because American citizens do not demand it, and do not put societal pressure on people that are caught doing the things you mention, potentially at the request of CIA, but also many times at the request of Bosses of Corporations, or political ideological groups, or individuals that have power.

Because power is someone giving a group or individual power by agreeing to do what they wanted them to do.

You have power, did you know that? You share that power with every person that agrees with you, if you use it you can change the parts of the system you disagree with.

[knowbody0]

2. they are another "too big to fail" entity

I'd be spooked if they had me in their cross hairs. Nancy, to me is incredibly brave.

[bottomtheweaver]

5. She can be.

Every now and then she shows enough courage to make me think she just might ready for the fight. And she knows her constituents are. So I hope she doesn't back down.

[lapfog_1]

4. Suppose she simply directs that they cut the budget by 25%

Which would be easy for her to do.

OTOH, she better have the best of the best personal protection.

[bottomtheweaver]

7. Why not 100%?

We have sixteen spy agencies according to Time magazine, which probably means we have several dozen, so why not just pull the plug on it in the name of smaller government? Who could fault Dems on wanting to save taxpayer money, especially if its funding vicious criminal acts against taxpayers, including Jose Padilla and, if the truth is told, many thousands of others?

[ColbertWatcher]

20. From what I understand, due to the GOP's fearmongering after 9/11 her security was increased.

Remember all that noise the GOP made about Pelosi using a military plane? Turns out she never requested it, it was assigned to her by the Secret Serice because she is third in line for the presidency.

(EDITED TO ADD BETTER LINK)

[Hanse]

6. Then I'll throw away all my booze.

Like the secondary character in those old Warner Bros. cartoons whenever he sees something impossible.

[Lena inRI]

8. C I A = F R A N K E N S T E I N. . .

. . .our democratic government created a real monster with this CIA. . .now we can't contain it as in the Frankenstein novel.

Speaker Pelosi certainly is brave.. .but I sense she has several watching her back. . .I especially trust former Senator Bob Graham . . .one of the few gallant men left.

Together these two people, plus unknown others supporting her in this matter, could very well be the spearhead toward exposing all the alleged CIA criminal roles in so many of our national unsolved mysteries. . .what a fortuitous moment coming out of this mess.

. . .soldier on Nancy and Bob, sending you both much strong light to lead you through to a safe, successful triumph over the CIA.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[bottomtheweaver]

10. Slaying this beast won't be easy, that's for sure,

but if ever there was a time, this is it -- Dems control the House, Senate, and White House, and have a perfect issue, torture. The pukes control the press and a lot of pulpits, not to mention the voting machines, which is another reason why if we pass up this opportunity for a show down we may not get another.

[Lena inRI]

13. Yep, it's a Pelosi Moment. . .more than an Obama Moment !

Obama is pivoting all over the place these past few days like a true basketball player. . .the GREAT EQUIVOCATOR. . . his way of throwing the opposition off course.

But Nancy is making a beeline maneuver straight toward the CIA. . .W O W

This will be very interesting. . .

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[bottomtheweaver]

15. I think you are right.

From her news conference yesterday it sounds like she's ticked off bigtime, and that's a good sign:

Throughout my career, I have been proud to have worked on human rights and against torture around the world. . . .

We also now know that techniques including waterboarding had already been employed and that those briefing me in September 2002 gave me inaccurate and incomplete information.

At the same time, the Bush administration -- exactly the same time -- September of 2002, the fall of 2002, at the same time, the Bush administration was misleading the American people about the threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/14/AR2009051402100.html

If Nancy goes to the mat with the CIA, it won't be pretty, but I think she'll win. And it would be a huge, huge victory, so Nancy, we got your back!

:patriot:

[snowdays]

9. nope--she has to sit in the corner for a while now......

May 15, 2009
Categories: Intelligence

Pelosi softens CIA critique
Nancy Pelosi is softening a bit after the Leon Panetta smackdown.

In a statement just released by her office, Pelosi is blaming the Bush administration's interrogation policies and says she did not mean to question the integrity of the hard working spies in the intelligence community.

Here's Pelosi's statement:

"We all share great respect for the dedicated men and women of the intelligence community who are deeply committed to the safety and security of the American people. My criticism of the manner in which the Bush Administration did not appropriately inform Congress is separate from my respect for those in the intelligence community who work to keep our country safe. What is important now is to be united in our commitment to ensuring the security of our country; that, and how Congress exercises its oversight responsibilities, will continue to be my focus as we move forward."

[bottomtheweaver]

11. Oh brother.

Yes, we must protect the tender feelings of all those dedicated members of the intel community busily collecting dirt on her and every other Dem, peace activist, environmentalist, prisoner advocate and charitable nun.

:puke:

[snowdays]

23. I do not think she will be attaching them anymore. And the

WH--via Gibbs at the press conference was non committal when a question was asked about this issue.

[JDPriestly]

12. The CIA is supposed to answer to President Obama.

AG Holder should appoint a prosecutor and get started. They aren't going to touch Pelosi.

Check my post here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5663253&mesg_id=5663253

She was not an accomplice or an accessory after the fact. She did her legal duty -- which was to be silent.

This is only about Bush and Cheney. The real crime is not about the CIA so much although certain individuals might be implicated. This is my opinion.

[bottomtheweaver]

14. The CIA lied about what and when they told her.

Pelosi has said that she was misled, Graham has said that the CIA lied to him about the briefings he attended, and the CIA was in charge of the waterboarding and other tortures, whether they want to claim it was actually performed by "contractors" or not. So the CIA is in the dock, or should be. What I'm suggesting is that this is a golden opportunity to get to the bottom of ALL their depraved crimes, and there are hundreds of them, all over the world including here, and abolish the entire wretched operation.

[sandnsea]

17. Truth Commission

We should all get behind it right now. We don't need to see pictures. We do need to put the responsibility for torture at the top where it belongs - and if they used torture to get the "intel" to go to war in Iraq, then all the more reason to push for investigation.

[bottomtheweaver]

18. I'll get behind a truth commission, sure.

Except if the pukes twist it into some form of preemption from other kinds of investigations, including criminal investigations.

[Hekate]

19. I would hope she survives--politically and in every other way. nt

[TexasObserver]

21. What if she'd actually used the HOUSE to do so in 2007 & 2008?

She doesn't need a prosecutor. She has a House and many committees.

The problem has been that only now, when her political career is impinged, does she finally find the strength to speak up. She's paying the toll for being weak and complicit.

[Thrill]

24. This isn't a fight she should be fighting. She needs to put the focus back on Cheney and crew fast.

She can't win a fight with the CIA.