Do smokers have a right to exist?

[Renew Deal]

Poll question: Do smokers have a right to exist?

[cboy4]

1. Oh boy

:popcorn:

[Breeze54]

5. LOL!

:P

[Renew Deal]

11. If anyone answers predictibly....

This will be a lot of fun. :evilgrin:

[madeline_con]

2. Absolutely. They shouldn't smoke in the entrance to buildings

like our local School Board, which smells like an ashtray as you enter. :puke:

[Breeze54]

7. I agree!

;)

[joshcryer]

78. Hmm, is the school board near school property? Smoking is banned on school *property* here.

You cannot smoke on the property, outdoors. Several of the cafeteria workers from a nearby school are always coming to my apartment complex, by the fence, to smoke.

[gratuitous]

3. You missed a choice

"I'm a WATB." +10 votes.

[Breeze54]

4. Yes, and Hell YEAH!

:P

[Renew Deal]

6. lol

:rofl:

I was going to vote yes...until I saw that. :smoke:

[Breeze54]

12. LMAO!

:P

[joshcryer]

77. You just won the internet.

This award is rare, indeed, but you just got it. Congrats!

:rofl:

[BuyingThyme]

8. There's no such things as smokers. It's a political consruct.

[NRaleighLiberal]

9. Yes they have a right to exist...but not to blow their smoke my way or toss the butts everywhere!

[Breeze54]

14. Agreed!

;)

[Kajsa]

97. I agree. too!

Hi Breeze!

:hi:

[jobycom]

10. Do non-smokers have a right to exist, is the question.

One smoker takes away the right of everyone nearby to not smoke.

[Breeze54]

16. Draconian

tsk, tsk

:(

[jobycom]

20. Dragons smoke.

[Breeze54]

24. So I hear! lol

:P

[NRaleighLiberal]

19. We were born non-smokers. Plus, it is addictive - smokers DO NOT have free will.

Any smoker who thinks they are not addicted and their reasoning is clouded is fooling themselves.

[frogcycle]

13. definitely not

They should be waterboarded until they promise to quit, and then repeat it if they backslide.
Maybe slice their genitals a little, too.

[Breeze54]

17. LMAO!

:P

[Renew Deal]

23. Now this is something I can wrap my head around.

Let the cigarette companies manufacture the waterboards to offset their smoking losses. That's capitalism!

[Breeze54]

26. And more profit?

except the lawsuits! :P

[wyldwolf]

15. yes, but I would prefer they exist only in well ventilated areas.

[Breeze54]

22. Great idea... agreed!

;)

[Raine1967]

18. Wow.

Why not ask

'Do GOP'ers have a right to exist?'

That is how awful that question was.

[frogcycle]

27. your question is stupider

GOPers have far less right to exist than do smokers. Smokers are born that way, and GOPers choose to be what they are.

[Renew Deal]

32. Smokers are born that way?

:wtf:

[frogcycle]

36. please

don't take ANYTHING in this idiot thread seriously!

[Raine1967]

41. Ok... I am stupider.

The entire premise of this OP is nuts.

People have a right to exist. PERIOD.

[Renew Deal]

28. I assure you the answer would be 100% different.

[Raine1967]

43. ????

I will always defend the right to exist.

Smoker or not. GOP'r or Not-- if that difference cannot be understood, that this thread is entering scary ground. We are talking about the right to exist here.

That sounds really freaky, and NOT in a good way.

[JI7]

21. most smokers i know are very nice, friendly people

[Renew Deal]

25. They will make nice soap.

:D

[Breeze54]

31. Ewe!! You are sooo bad!!

LMAO! :P

[SoCalDem]

83. Actually, the pizza & donut aficionados make better soap

more "emolients"..:rofl:..but they do take a bit longer to render.

[Breeze54]

29. ((((((((( JI7)))))))))

;)

[The Straight Story]

30. Only those that leftist or rightist fundies decide should exist, should exist

Outside of that there are real people who believe in freedom.

sadly, such freedom is not embraced by fundies.

[Breeze54]

35. LOL!

:hi:

[The Straight Story]

37. Tis sad but true. The big tent get's smaller by the day

as we kick more and more people out in a fundie effort to punish sinners.

[Breeze54]

45. I hear THAT!

:hug:

[mamaleah]

39. Fundies on either side

are disturbing and disgusting.

[Orrex]

33. Fuck yes, they do!

How the hell am I supposed to feel morally superior if I can't attack those nic-fiends for helplessly sucking on their lung-rockets?

[NutmegYankee]

64. Just heap scorn on fat people instead while eating all you want.

Not only can you show off your superior metabolism, but its politically OK!

[Orrex]

65. I didn't even think of that!

Thanks for the tip!

[LakeSamish706]

34. Well, I guess smokers are going to ask the same question of you... Do you deserve...

to exist? And if your answer is yes, then why?

[Renew Deal]

38. Who knew Phillip Morris was a philosopher?

:D

[LakeSamish706]

40. I'm a long time reformed smoker actually.... Hell, I hate smokers around me...

But I sure as hell am not going to tell them that they don't have that right, so long as I am not affected by it.

[Stinky The Clown]

42. I've done plenty of stupid polls. None were as stupid as this one.

[Renew Deal]

44. Sorry, I disagree.

[Jakes Progress]

46. Sorry, I agree.

[Renew Deal]

47. Start your own poll then and try to beat me.

:shrug:

[The Straight Story]

49. How about a poll like this:

Do people who don't do things I agree with have a right to exist?

[Breeze54]

50. LMAO!!

((( The Straight Story )))

;)

[Renew Deal]

84. That's a good start

But it needs a more attractive headline. Something like: Do DLC'ers have a right to exist? Or better yet, do Obama critics have a right to exist?

Imagine the fun!

[Jakes Progress]

89. Golly. Are we having a contest?

Just as silly as your whiny poll.

[madville]

48. I prefer women that smoke

I've dated, lived with, or been married to around 30 women in the last 20 years. Around 20 out of the 30 smoked and they were much more fun in my experience than non-smokers, drank more and were crazier also. Now that I'm closer to 40 though the women my age that smoke don't age as well as the non-smokers as a result of the less than healthy lifestyle they tend to live. I've talked to a couple of them lately that were late thirties going on 50 in appearence.

I like a cigarette myself but maybe a pack a week at the most, depends if I drink or not, a drink makes me want to smoke. You gotta die of something, live and let live, it does stink though when you don't smoke for a bit and get your sense of smell back. Nasty habit but not so bad in moderation like everything else.

[dweller]

51. who is talking/polling about death here anyway?

the poll is 'do smokers have the right to exist' !

stick to the subject, or fuck off and die already.

jeesh, use a little common sense
dp



unedited: if necessary :sarcasm:

[Joe Fields]

52. does anyone have the right to exist?

[Breeze54]

55. Just me...

and all of you! :P

:hi: Missed you.

[book_worm]

53. Yes, but they all must relocate to Kentucky

[Breeze54]

56. I'm game!!

LOL! :D

[spag68]

54. smokers

I say it depends on what they are smoking.

[Breeze54]

57. Le Kine....

;)

You know it! :P

[ContinentalOp]

58. Burn em at the stake...

don't inhale though.

[Hugabear]

59. Absolutely not. They should all be rounded up and placed in front of a firing squad.

:sarcasm: (sometimes you need that here)

[Politicalboi]

62. But can I have

One last smoke before I go? LOL!

[Politicalboi]

60. As long as we have dirty fuel

Smokers should have the right to exist.

[pipoman]

79. Funny that..

my POE has a no smoking on campus policy. Two of my employees were caught smoking a few weeks ago by one of the directors. They were written up. When I was discussing the write up with one of the VPs there were 2 semis idling outside the back door. It occurred to me that the policy is idiotic as long as we are allowing trucks to idle on the campus. The smokers could sit in their cars with the windows rolled up and chain smoke all day, maybe their eyes would get red...if they put a hose from the exhaust in the window they would be dead in less than an hour...smoking bans outside are idiotic.

[OHDEM]

61. Is existance a right or a privilege? nt

[Renew Deal]

85. Non-smokers: Right. Smokers: Privilege

:D

[OHDEM]

88. You're onto something there!

Breathing = right
Smoking = privilege (at least outside one's own home)

[aquart]

63. I voted yes. If smokers didn't exist and die young...

what would happen to Social Security? Light up, fellas. I'm depending on you. But do it over there so you don't take me with you.

[Speck Tater]

66. Of course! They need to exist in order to have the chance to become ex-smokers.

Smoke free 81 days and counting.

[Forkboy]

67. Not if they're going to post shit like this.

:hide:

[LeftishBrit]

68. Of course - but their smoking may mean that they exist for fewer years than if they didn't.

[TWiley]

69. As a self-righteous ex-smoker, I voted NO just to be annoying.

I am so very happy to not smoke. In fact, I am THRILLED to not smoke anymore.

[canetoad]

70. I smoke, therefore I am.

[cherokeeprogressive]

72. To be is to do. To do is to be. Dooobie Doobie Dooo... n/t

[canetoad]

74. That made me laugh

:smoke: :rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. As much a right as left-handed people do I guess... n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

73. Who else would pay for everything?

[canetoad]

75. You can tell who has had a humour bypass in this thread

[Dorian Gray]

76. So funny

especially the 16 that voted "NO!"

[CommieCowboy]

80. Hmm...

I would say yes and that it's a bit out of hand, but smokers who oppose legalising marijuana have no right to piss and moan about the current state of affairs. Nicotine is far more dangerous for human consumption than THC, and so long as people who choose cannabis or tobacco are criminalised, people complaining about smoking laws are ignorant hypocrites unless they are willing to come to bat for cannabis users.

Edit: I wanted to vote yes, but my account is apparently too new.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

81. We Have Far More Of A Right To Exist Than Stupid People, Of Whidh Plenty Can Be Found Here.

Wouldn't make a poll on it though.

[Junkdrawer]

82. Glenn Beck? Is that you?

:hi:

[Philosoraptor]

86. crack smokers? no. cigarette smokers? no. Pot smokers? Yes

[Winterblues]

87. I want smokers there in public blowing smoke all over my babies..

:shrug: Why wear a helmet on a motorcycle or a seat belt in a car? If smoking in public is allowed far more medical problems arise from tobacco than all car and motor cycle accidents combined. What is the excuse for forcing one to wear a seat belt or a helmet again?

[Fuzz]

90. I don't think I actually do exist, so there!

[bigwillq]

91. Our president is a smoker.

I believe he quit, but we don't know if he still sneaks one or not. Should he not exist? :shrug:

[L0oniX]

92. They also have the right to die from it ...too bad someone else will have to pay the medical bill.

[Hannah Bell]

93. bull.

[L0oniX]

94. If it's "bull" then who do you think pays for it? ...no one? ...the smoker? pffft smell it!

[Hannah Bell]

102. There have been plenty of studies analyzing who pays for it.

smokers.

contrary to the beliefs of the obsessed.

[L0oniX]

104. I suppose that is why Florida had to suit tobacco companies to recupe the medical costs.

Is that one of the studies you refer too?

[Hannah Bell]

105. "sue" "recoup". no, this is:

"Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents. "It looks unpleasant or ghoulish to look at the cost savings as well as the cost increases and it's not a good thing that smoking kills people," Viscusi said in an interview. "But if you're going to follow this health-cost train all the way, you have to take into account all the effects, not just the ones you like in terms of getting your bill passed."

Other researchers have reached similar conclusions. A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people. The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer.

Willard Manning, a professor of health economics and policy at the University of Chicago's Harris School of Public Policy Studies, was lead author on a paper published two decades ago in the Journal of the American Medical Association that found that, taking into account tobacco taxes in effect at the time, smokers were not a financial burden to society. "We were actually quite surprised by the finding because we were pretty sure that smokers were getting cross-subsidized by everybody else," said Manning, who suspects the findings would be similar today. "But it was only when we put all the pieces together that we found it was pretty much a wash."



Since that study was done, tobacco taxes have doubled.

Smokers subsidize non-smokers.

http://www.ash.org.uk/ash_wqau1ua1.htm.

[Hannah Bell]

108. and this: (not that i think facts have any effect on the obsessional or crooked):

Economic Scene; Smoking's economic cost isn't a good argument for higher taxes.
By Peter Passell
Published: Thursday, July 14, 1994

This latest Government report is by all accounts based on careful research. Sufficient data collected from some 35,000 adults allowed statisticians to untangle the effects of smoking from the myriad other influences on health: age, race, income, insurance coverage, education, obesity, even willingness to take risks as evidenced by seat belt use. When refigured at 1993 prices, estimated medical bills for smokers came to $50 billion a year, or $2.06 a pack. The costs borne by the public -- mostly Medicaid and Medicare -- came to 89 cents a pack.

That latter number is likely to figure in a suit by the State of Florida, which is attempting to recover medical outlays for treating smokers from the cigarette makers...

The catch here is that a full accounting must also include the savings from smoking. Yes, savings: the reduced cost of private pensions, Social Security and nursing home care for smokers who die before their time. And probably the most complete estimate of the "benefits" as well as the costs was made in 1989 by a group of scholars under the auspices of the RAND Corporation.

The study, led by Willard Manning and published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, put the costs not borne by smokers themselves at about 15 cents a pack... And Mr. Newhouse, one of the authors of the RAND study, argues that the conceivable magnitude of passive smoking is unlikely to exceed a few cents a pack.

Hence it should not be surprising that Jane Gravelle and Dennis Zimmerman, economists at the Congressional Research Service, concluded that nonsmokers' costs of smoking were "too small to justify either current cigarette taxes (averaging 50 cents a pack) or the proposed tax increase."

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/14/business/economic-scene-smoking-s-economic-cost-isn-t-a-good-argument-for-higher-taxes.html

[Hannah Bell]

110. Federal taxes *alone* are now over $1/pack. The average state tax = $1.20.

When the feds raised the tax by .61/pack, the tobacco corps raised the price by .71.

Tobacco corps profits are *increasing,* not decreasing, & smokers (who tend to be poorer than average) are subsidizing schools, medical care for children, & lawyers' fees.

[quaker bill]

112. And perhaps why

they can spend the surplus from this tax to fund the schools ($1.00 a pack just passed now goes directly to the public school budget). I was thinking of quitting, but would hate to deprive FL public schools of even more money. Given the premise, it is curious that they actually spent very little of the dollars gained from the suit on actual healthcare.

(some of the money went to the TRUTH campaign to prevent underage smoking, but far more of it went to make up for JEB's repeal of the intangibles tax on investment portfolios, nearly zero dollars of these funds went to healthcare)

[Patsy Stone]

109. Non-smokers don't die?

They should really tell someone about that.

[Enrique]

95. we should find out some way to make them die sooner than the rest of us n/t

[DailyGrind51]

96. Only in the company of other smokers!

[Elidor]

98. BURN THEM!

[datasuspect]

99. we need a final solution to the smoker question

[rucky]

100. lock them in a closet with a box of cigars...

and don't let them leave until they've smoked every one of 'em?

[datasuspect]

101. i was thinking starting out with mass summary executions, preferably with squads of special forces

then removal to ghettoes, then liquidation, then removal to forced labor camps for extermination.

[walldude]

103. This thread just cost me 3 minutes of my life I will never get back.

I think I'll go have a smoke.

[Paladin]

106. Yes They Do, As Long As They're Not Whiny Assholes About It. (n/t)

[Peacetrain]

107. Not at my house!

[Catchawave]

111. As much of a "right" as those who

...are obese

...drink alcohol/beer

...smoke/snort the whacky fun-stuff

...don't pay my mortgage or credit card bills

...pray to their God, whoever.

Yeah, I'm pretty tolerant of those who choose, as long as they don't force me to eat, inhale, drink, snort,evict me or cut off my head agendas. pEAce.

:toast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDHoTOgeNWE :toast:

[Hippo_Tron]

113. Questions like this don't really enhance policy discussions

There are some who believe smoking is their fundamental right and there are those who are concerned that it conflicts with other peoples' rights. Like most every other political debate we have settled on compromises where cigarettes aren't outlawed but you have to smoke outside.

If you want to ask an existential question on this subject a better one would be, "Is it necessarily bad that so many people die from smoking related diseases?"

[proteus_lives]

114. Yeah, we do.

I make it a point not to throw my butts on the ground or blow smoke into anyone's face. If someone asks me not to light up, I don't. Smokers have the right to exist as long as they respect the smoker's code.

[Roon]

115. I smoked for 20+ years

Started when I was a kid, but after becoming an adult I made sure I didn't offend someone with my smoking. I also used to "field strip" my cigarretes and put the butt in my pocket if there wasn't an ashtray.

The only thing I miss about smoking is not being able to use the smokers' excuse to get out of boring situations. Pardon me,but I am going outside to have a smoke...lol

[RagAss]

116. Of course.

[Zynx]

117. Loaded question so I answered no.