Catholic Church shamed by Irish abuse report

[defendandprotect]

Catholic Church shamed by Irish abuse report

DUBLIN – After a nine-year investigation, a commission published a damning report Wednesday on decades of rapes, humiliation and beatings at Catholic Church-run reform schools for Ireland's castaway children.

The 2,600-page report painted the most detailed and damning portrait yet of church-administered abuse in a country grown weary of revelations about child molestation by priests.

The investigation of the tax-supported schools uncovered previously secret Vatican records that demonstrated church knowledge of pedophiles in their ranks all the way back to the 1930s.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse

AND RELATED ARTICLES . .


Timeline of Ireland's Catholic abuse scandals

Report exposes 'endemic' abuse in church-run Irish homes

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse_timeline

And . .

Thousands beaten, raped . . .

The investigation of the tax-supported schools uncovered previously secret Vatican records that demonstrated church knowledge of pedophiles in their ranks all the way back to the 1930s.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_IRELAND_CATHOLIC_ABUSE?SITE=CACHI&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090520/ts_afp/irelandreligioncatholicchildrenabuse

[Mind_your_head]

1. This is not "news". It is serious, without a doubt. HOWEVER....

let's not let this revelation, (which isn't a revelation, b/c a LOT of people have known about this for a long time)

DISTRACT OUR ATTENTION AWAY FROM PEOPLE IN GITMO WHO ARE BEING ABUSED RIGHT NOW!!!!

Each and every day! Their rights are being denied, non-existant! Those PEOPLE in Gitmo HAVE NO RIGHTS!

--------

and the "Worst Part" is.....

they will continue to 'have no rights" b'c the 'powers that be' DON'T WANT THE GITMO DETAINEE'S STORIES TO BE TOLD! It would be devastating to "the powers that be".....so they are gonna keep these men/women/children/we-don't-know-who illegally captive to keep them silent FOREVER!

THAT'S A TRAVESTY THAT WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT RIGHT NOW!!!!

We can't turn back the hands of time and point fingers at now dead bishops/priests.

There are people RIGHT NOW who are in need of JUSTICE and advocates for their case!

Don't scream and yell (and put everything in 'bold') about the "nun story" in Ireland from years ago, when you are not doing anything to prevent the SAME SORT OF THING FROM HAPPENING RIGHT NOW/RIGHT HERE! It's happening at Gitmo....and it's even worse!

[BuyingThyme]

3. I'm pretty sure we can do both.

[Creena]

4. As the granddaughter of a victim, I respectfully disagree.

Are we some how incapable of digesting more than one news story at a time? I want justice for the innocents at Gitmo, but also for my Daideo.

[iamtechus]

5. Corporal Punishment In Schools Is Fairly Common In The US

It is still lawful in 21 US states and very popular in the south.



More ...

[SpiralHawk]

10. The Nuns whomped on me and classmates for 8 years

then the Christian Brothers took over and got more physical. That's what brought on my adolescent rebellion -- I couldn't let the Holy Thugs slap or punch or cane me anymore, and I struck back in self-defense, was merrily expelled, and began to learn about Life Without Sanctimonious Abuse.

As I look back, I regonize in all those Catholic Bullies the same perverse traits I now see in the Republicon Homelanders - life lived out of fear and and with ongoing dysfunctional attempts to control. And that's a fact.

[defendandprotect]

20. Great summation on this . . .

I'm also a recovering Catholic -- NYC schools --
boys got knocked around quite a bit --
My nun flipped an 8th grade boy over her back one day!

After 8th grade boys went on to HS with "Brothers" -- maybe Jesuits?
Girls had their heads banged into blackboards - sometimes slapped in
the face - but always berated.
We had one lay teacher in 6th grade who told us about martyrs and how
they were tortured all day long, every day!

Agree -- this is a church based on authoritarian rule and it keeps and
holds those who embrace authoritarian/bullying tactics -- and, IMO,
those too cowardly to stand against them.

[defendandprotect]

19. "Beware of those with a strong need to punish" . . .!!

[ColbertWatcher]

6. I wonder if anyone from the church will apologize to Sinead O'Conner?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinead_O_Connor#Saturday_Night_Live_performance

[Arugula Latte]

27. It only took them 450 years to apologize to Galileo

so I'm sure they'll get right on the Sinead apology ...

[get the red out]

8. Most people in the US who favor torture follow religious institutions without question

The people that ignored this being done to children by the Catholic Church followed a religious institution without question. There is a correlation in thinking. We must point out how trusting authority without question is very bad policy in all situations. Following authoritarians is bad news for the world.

The more stories like these are publicized the more power and leverage the good Catholics can get in taking their religion for themselves and bringing it into the 21st century. There are people suffering today, right now, because of the social positions of the Catholic church. There are people who live hopeless lives right now because they do not question what they are told by the Church and have way too many children to support. There are people contracting HIV now because of the Church's propaganda on condom use. Death and misery now.

The more the Catholic Church is discredited, the more hope there is for change in the world.

If DU can't entertain more than one story at a time it might as well just shut down.

[mwb970]

11. Can we only focus on a single story at a time then?

Sounds like cable news. As soon as a big story happens they drop everything else to cover it 24/7.

I understand your concern about the Gitmo issue. I don't understand why you see political discourse as a zero-sum game in which only one story can be thought about or commented on at a time.

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

18. Obviously, you don't like the subject, but it was "NEWS" on Yahoo yesterday . . .

and elsewhere -- !!!

[rpannier]

2. This shamed many different agencies in Ireland

The national government did a horrid job as well.

It was/is a disgrace

[NC_Nurse]

7. And yet, people still listen to the pope and his posse about issues like family

planning and sexual "purity". What a crock.

What do they have to do to make folks give the Vatican the respect it deserves, NONE.

[malaise]

9. The only people who listen

know nothing about the oldest multinational corporation's history.

[Mopar151]

14. I beg to differ

What they know, they are in denial about. And they are conflicted about what they hear, and what they want to beleive.

[malaise]

16. Possibly but most have never read the objective history

of the institution.

[defendandprotect]

21. Especially since so many families - women especially -- have suffered

the "no birth control dictates" . . . "Brides of Christ" an Austrlian made movie --
as I recall it -- was a marvelous look at the personal tragedies caused by this
patriarchal arrogance.

[zbdent]

12. saw this on another online source, and of course, the freepturds that hit that site

were blaming the kids for "lying" about their abuse ... because they were in a "reform school" ...

These people (the freepturds) are truly sick ...

[sinkingfeeling]

17. Proving once again that freepers can't read...

"Abuses also took place at 216 other church-run institutions for children, which included orphanages, hostels, regular schools and schools for the disabled."

[defendandprotect]

22. Sad to say, but those arguments used to hold . . .

until fairly recent times, children just weren't believed on this stuff!!!

[zbdent]

29. you just didn't talk about those things ...

of course, that was before the daycare center scandal in the early 80s ... where the "authorities", anxious for a really big score, led kids into saying things which weren't true ...

which then destroyed the credibility of other claims of abuse ... kinda like the straight-A student (type) who never kissed a boy in her life being called a filthy whore who dressed like she wanted sex, by the guy who raped her ...

[defendandprotect]

30. True . . . and your post . . .

caused me to think of the recent history of how America has become more educated
on these issues --
The young victims have been very courageous in coming forward --
very difficult. But a great part of America's education.
I also miss Ted Turner's CNN -- he kept after the stories here in America.

There's been a recent program on TV which I stopped to watch a week or two back.
Unbelievable damage done to families.

[mwb970]

13. This sheds some light on the recent findings about torture and church people.

There is something about being intensely involved with Christianity (or perhaps any religion) that seems to take away some people's empathy, kindness, and common sense. It is somewhat akin to being lobotomized, except that what is removed are the very qualities religious people incessantly brag about having more of than the rest of us. :eyes:

As far as I can tell, Religion = Cruelty + Hypocrisy.

[malaise]

15. You left out brainwashing n/t

[defendandprotect]

23. "Disabled children" were also abused . . . ??

Abuses also took place at 216 other church-run institutions for children, which included orphanages, hostels, regular schools and schools for the disabled.

And these were "tax-supported schools" -- !!!

America should get out of the business of our own government supporting anything
"faith-based" . . . !!!

I also think unfair that the Board has given compensation to some of the abused --
but ONLY on the proviso that they can no longer sue the Vatican!!

Actually, there was double abuse here, IMO -- because all of this Catholic stuff was
financed by the Irish government.

Two edged sword -- government and church together -- bad for the health of any nation!!

[JDPriestly]

24. Watch the movie, Deliver Us from Evil.

According to that movie, Ireland is harboring a priest who was a serial child molester.

[Arugula Latte]

28. I'm sure they're harboring many, many more than one.

[Badgerman]

25. The catholic church should be dismantled for it's centuries of torture and abuses. n/t

[nichomachus]

26. At the very least

the Catholic church should "do penance" by a self-imposed vow of silence for at least 100 years. From the pope on down, they should just shut their fucking yaps when it comes to how other people live.

They should stop the anti-choice jihad. They should stop the anti-gay jihad. They should spend a minimum of 100 years in silence and contemplation and STFU.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

31. I hope this heralds the beginning of the end of the Catholic Church's

hold on Irish politics. I would NEVER live in Ireland because I wouldn't have choice. Women can't get abortions in Ireland so they come here to Britain (they can't even get them in Northern Ireland!).

Beautiful country but I wouldn't want to raise my daughter there if I have one.

My relatives endured abuse from nuns in the Catholic boarding schools. I think reports like this took so long because the nuns and priests thought they could get away with it because they had power and many people believed them, not the victims. A good movie to watch is The Magdalene Sisters.

[defendandprotect]

32. Yes, thank you . . .

I've seen the movie -- and agree -- I'm also a recovering Catholic -- got out as fast as I could.
Taught by old Catholic nuns of "Charity" . . . !!!

Ironically, my sister is living in Ireland now over the past four years or so.
She happened to have married a guy who came to America as a teenager -- and worked
all his life here. They've always travelled a lot and took very early retirment in
Ireland. No children! No religion.

I'm sure many have had very different experiences . . . however, while the nuns could
certainly knock you around quite well, they, IMO, were more for berating/humiliating/
threatening -- constantly all day long.
But, I've always thought of them as very much witnesses to what was
happening in this church -- and that some day they were going to have to wake up to their
own treatment of children of members. I have no doubt there was some sexual abuse
by these nuns -- but the majority of abuse, from what I've read, has been by males.
Sadly, they never did seem to "spill the beans" on the whole show . . . and I've never
heard an apology!!! They should be deeply ashamed!!

I haven't seen the movie "Doubt" mainly cause I was unsure of the overall thrust of the
movie. But will catch it on video when it comes out.

I've no doubt that Ireland has been changing in regard to the Vatican/RCC -- I mean after
all this was forced upon Ireland and they were severely brainwashed. They worshipped a
goddess -- The Goddess Bridget in an old pagan religion --
The Blessed Mother was substituted for Bridget!!
"Introducing the Cross with the Sword" ...
And, again, religion capturing government control --
It's been at the least an intimidating experience for Ireland.
Plus, taxpayers were supporting these "services" --!!

And here we are now in America . . . giving our taxpayer dollars to "faith-based" organizations!!

[defendandprotect]

33. And, of course, this parallels the Catholic/Mormon Native American Schools--!!!

These were the "church schools" put in place -- and I guess financed -- by our

government long ago to destroy the identity and heritage of native American children.

Again -- huge abuses . . .

Sexual, hangings, beatings, murders - every kind of perversion.

Actually, in this case, the Mormon schools were evidently the worst.


The native Americans have interesting insight into what happened to them . . .

"When they came, they had the book
and we had the land --
When they left, we had the book
and they had the land --"

And using religion and religious fanatics as a stepping stone to conquest of other
nations and as a means of destroying the people of those nations is a long standing
pattern --

from our own continent, to Hawaii, Ireland, Afghanistan -- on and on!!!