Is our tent big enough for Colin Powell?

[rhett o rick]

So I figure the republiCons whose party is disintegrating before their eyes have only a couple of choices.
1. they can watch as Rush and Cheney take the party down the drain. or
2. They, the moderate republiCons can defect to the Democratic Party and literally take over. If they join up with the Red Dog Democrats they would have a lot of power. The Senate is already leaning to the right.

I can see Colin Powell challenging Barrack Obama in the primaries to be the second black Democratic president.

And yes it is early in the day for my boxed Chardonnay but I am drinking to honor our veterans that have served our country.

[blueclown]

1. What are you smoking?

Colin Powell challenging President Obama in a Democratic primary?

Seriously?

If the President runs for re-election, and he has a good first term, he will be uncontested in the Democratic Primary.

[rhett o rick]

12. May I return the complement? What are you smoking.

I am drinking Chardonnay the poor mans Scotch.

Seriously, well half seriously, Obama won because of the ground swell against the horrible bush administration. A lot of the energy was from the far left who may not have that energy for him again. But the bush dragon is dead (not really, maybe wounded). Now the moderate republiCons are looking for a hero. Who is a bigger hero than Colin Powell. The current republiCon leaders (?) are bad mouthing Powell something fierce. So I say if Arlen Specter can defect why can't Gen Powell?

[blueclown]

33. There are no more moderate Repubicans anymore.

They have either became Democrats or independents.

[rhett o rick]

36. I agree. That's why I say that if the right wind Democrats have a good candidate like Powell he mite

be able to give Obama a run for his money. the corporate money would be behind him (Powell).

[Buzz Clik]

2. "Our tent"? Our tent is a multitude of individual shelters harboring one idea at a time.

On balance, I like Powell. He has flaws, he had at least two enormous errors. But, on balance, I like him.

But, please be clear -- are you suggesting we actually support Powell to run against Obama?

[leftstreet]

3. Powell is a lying sack of shit AssClown n/t

[rhett o rick]

13. Yes but what's your point? You don't think he might defect? nm

[leftstreet]

17. Hell, no doubt the Hedge Fund Democrats would welcome him

with open arms

Will he defect? Who knows.

[AlCzervik]

4. Powell is a war enabler, he had his chance to speak up before the UN debacle

and he didn't, he put his party before his country.

[rhett o rick]

14. So.....help me out. What is your point? He won't defect because he loves his party so much?

The party that abandoned him and is dragging him thru the mud? The party that set him up for the patsy?

[AlCzervik]

32. he's a big boy, he can take it, he knew what he threw in with and he can either walk away

or not, that doesn't change what he did.

[rhett o rick]

37. What he did or didn't do has nothing to do with his becoming a Democrat. nm

[AlCzervik]

44. so what? Did you want to send him a fancy invite or something saying we all

welcome him?

[rhett o rick]

47. Where do you get the idea that I am welcoming him?

I was trying to point out that the Democratic Party might be in for trouble if more big name "moderate" republiCons switch parties.

They have lost control of their party to the wacko's so they mite as well switch. And since the DLC and Red Dog Democrats have considerable power already, these newcomers might be enough to completely control the party and move it substantially to the right.

I gather from your comments that you think because Powell is a bad guy that it wont happen. I am saying it don't matter that he is a bad guy. There is nothing stopping him.

[AlCzervik]

52. i think you're putting the cart before the horse and there are lots of moderates

that would not vote for a Powell, they might watch him on Meet the press but that's about it.

I'm concerned with what's going on now and now the next presidential election.

[verges]

57. I think you have a valid point.

A large intake of former Repubs into the Dem party could draw the party rightwards. Powell might change parties. But I don't think he'll try for Prez. His opportunities for that are long past.

[rhett o rick]

59. Thanks for the reply. I understand what you are saying but who will

they turn to as leader. I don't rule out John McCain (possible running mate Carrie Prejean).

[skepticscott]

51. Well, Powell can CALL himself whatever he wants

If he wants to declare that he now considers himself a Democrat, that's his business. But that doesn't mean the Democratic party should do anything but reject him as a war criminal who is at least partially responsible for hundreds of thousands of needless deaths and who should be in prison.

The only way that Powell could even begin to redeem himself would be to come completely clean about all of the lawbreaking and war crimes that he was part of in the Bush Administration. And I mean completely clean...the whole truth about everything that was said and done by everyone in the administration, including himself, in furtherance and support of illegal activities.

[AlCzervik]

53. all that and i don't want to waste my time thinking about what Powell's plans are for

2012, we have enough going on now without trying to figure him out.

[Jazzgirl]

24. What Al said...

n/t

[hayu_lol]

5. Never...

Powell, as a 4 star general and later as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and still later as Secty of State knew what was going on. He deliberately lied in his UN speech. He failed his West Point Oath of: Duty, Honor, Country as well as his oath as a commissioned officer of the US.

He should not be allowed, ever, to serve in any public capacity.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. 1000 words:

[FiveGoodMen]

7. Hell NO!

[librechik]

8. He's more liberal than Lieberman

but he's not worth having, on the whole. No more than Specter, another Republican reject too tainted with crime and corruption to be welcome at the picnic.

Why didn't he call off the UN presentation if it was as he said., BS? Because he is pwned.

[rhett o rick]

19. I am not saying that I would welcome him. Just sayin that were are the moderate republiCons going

to go? Sen Specter may have started something. And if Powell should decide to join us, he would bring a lot of moderate republiCons that don't know what to do. They can't support Obama.

[librechik]

30. I think it would be an important and monumental signal

especially since Cheney thinks Powell's not a Republican anymore. Moderate Republicans can see just how
he's treated, and the fact that the Dem party as a whole is so much more centrist than it used to be, we could welcome Powell and the rest of the Paleos.

But where am I going? There's hardly any left left in my party.

Feh--it's gotten so jumbled I don't even care anymore. I'm outahere--

[dflprincess]

41. I don't give a damn where the moderate republiCons go

just so long as it's not to the Democratic party. Let them stay and fix their own party and stop trying to turn ours any more Republican lite than it already is.

If they keep defecting the question will be - where do the Democrats go?

[rhett o rick]

49. So far they are losing the battle to control their own party.

And as long as they stay they give power to the idiots that currently are claiming the lead. But if they leave and move to the Democratic Party they will bring the corporate support with them. With them in the party combining with the Blue Dogs and DLC, they would have a lot of power.

Yes this would leave the left out in the cold.

[dflprincess]

67. It's not just the left

There's a lot of more moderate Democrats who won't go along with the party being turned over to the corporate whores. I know many poeple who are active in the DFL who don't think of themselves as "left" but they sure aren't corportists and when the subject comes up they aren't especially happy with the DLC and their friends either.

[rhett o rick]

69. If only the "lot of moderate Democrats who won't go allong with the party being turned

over to the corporate whores" actually had a say. If I am not mistaken those "moderate Democrats" you are referring to chose Obama over Edwards. And it seems to me that Pres Obama is embracing the DLC and corporatists more than Edwards would have.

Currently the Senate is controlled by corporatists in my opinion. And I don't think we on the left of Hitler can do a thing about it.

Please tell me I am wrong.

[dflprincess]

70. I can't say

by the time we caucused in Minnesota, the only choices left were Clinton, Obama & uncommitted. There were quite a few uncommitted at my caucus - and were mainly people who had been around for a long time. They were pretty much divided between moderates (more the old school moderate, not DLC types) and liberals and most of us had been supporting Edwards.

I agree that the senate is controlled by corportists and I don't know what we can do about it except withdraw our money, time & votes from them. I've seen how the DSCC steps into state races to push the corporate candidate (I'm thinking Amy Klobucahr in 2006) over any progressive that is running. There's no way they're going to let anyone like Wellstone get elected again if they're not already in the Senate.

[rhett o rick]

74. I understand. Thom Hartmann says we need to get in at the grassroots and take over

the party. But from my experience it seems that the higher you go in the party, the less influence the grassroots has. After Howard Dean helped get the grassroots organized Obama dumped him for the DLC. I feel Pres Obama is doing a lot to hold off corporatism but when things get worse the masses will be tempted to swing back to fascism.

[sellitman]

28. No he isn't.

Joe is my Senator and one huge asshole but his voting record is pretty Liberal.

I'm no fan of his at all but you haven't looked up his voting record.

[librechik]

31. no--just talking about how he tagged along with McCain all last year

making a giant conservative out of himself, among other things --like no one would notice or something. We can't trust him to vote the way he needs to, even if he does so most of the time.

But that's the way most of the Dems are. They can't vote as a block because they are mostly owned by special interests.

[TahitiNut]

9. After he serves time for war crimes? Ask me then.

:shrug:

[rhett o rick]

15. You dreamer you. Hell even Cheney won't serve time. Obama wants the problem to go away. nm

[rhett o rick]

54. No one will serve for war crimes, read Pres Obama's lips. nm

[ThirdWorldJohn]

10. THIS - Powell is a lying sack of shit AssClown n/t

[goclark]

11. Hell no! Not for election of anything

He had his chance and his little test tube being held up is the proof of the pudding.

Can he change from Rethug to a Democrat? Of course he can, anyone can do that any time they want to ~

[Badgerman]

16. NO! No Powell, EVER! lying sack of backside kissing *&^*&^*^

other than that I have no strong feelings about that jackass.

[LaurenG]

18. If he changes his affiliation there is nothing we can do about it but

I wouldn't care to see him run for any office.

[WeDidIt]

20. I would welcome Colin Powell to the Democratic Party

Yeah, our tent is big enough.

[suchadeal]

21. No, he's a war criminal

Don't you know anything about his background other than that he's a friend of Ted Koeppel and likes to "resore" old Volvos?

[Javaman]

22. nope, he's an enabler. his little UN slide show with the cartoon trucks helped get us into this mess

He might not condone torture, but he helped light the fuse.

[Kaleva]

23. Define "our tent".

If you are talking about the DU tent, then no. If you are talking about the Democrat Party in general, then the tent is big enough for him. I doubt he'd run against President Obama in the 2012 primary but I wouldn't be surprised if he got a job in Obama's Administration.

[rhett o rick]

35. Why wouldn't he run against Obama? He is much more conservative and may by then

have enough right leaning Dems to support him.

[bigwillq]

25. Not my tent

:mad:

[stray cat]

26. Of course Powell would be welcome in the democratic party

He is actually fairly progressive on social issues and knows what it is too work for a living. People can choose to vote for him or not if he ran as a dem but he is certainly welcome to join the party - I sure appreciated his heartfelt endorsement of Obama

We certainly have bigger idiots in the party already and more that DUers disagree with.

[sellitman]

27. War criminals need not apply.

That tent has bars.

[Dark]

29. Yes. I vot Dem and I don't agree with a lot of what they believe about issues

(Drug war, gay marriage, abortion (at least my representative), etc.)

Why can't we admit someone who's realized that his/her beliefs correspond better to the Dems than the Repubs?

[dflprincess]

42. Powell has never believed in anything but Colin Powell and what

would further his own ambitions. Too bad he bet on the wrong horse. Just because the Republicans call him "liberal" doesn't mean he is.

[frylock]

34. colin powell should have done the honorable thing long ago

[rhett o rick]

39. That would require honor. republiCons have no honor. nm

[omega minimo]

38. Sure! As soon as he tells the whole truth about Gulf War I and Gulf War II

:thumbsup:

[aikoaiko]

40. Sure.

[Mari333]

43. no, millions died because of his lies.

and over 5000 troops died because of his lies.
no.
take a hike, colin.

[AlCzervik]

45. the op is way out there imo, like any of that is going to happen.

he can be a democrat f he wants but i will never support him.

[ProgressIn2008]

46. No. War criminal. No more. nt

[JVS]

48. He needs MAJOR vetting concerning his role in war crimes.

[rhett o rick]

50. No vetting required to join the Democratic Party. nm

[Horse with no Name]

55. No. But there is plenty of room at the Hague for that war criminal. n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

56. I second "What are you smoking"

Re: Primary

:wtf:

There's NO way that Powell would ever be able to front a primary challenge to Obama (assuming he even defects to the Democratic Party- he would be more likely to become an "Independent"), particularly not if Obama has even a modestly successful first term. Besides, as much as I appreciate his honesty (albeit after the fact) and endorsement of Obama during the campaign, as well his ongoing defense of President Obama's policies in regards to the "war on terror", he is still severely compromised IMHO regarding his promotion of the Iraq invasion of 2003, as well his knowledge and complicity of Bushco's torture post-9/11. For those enraged by Pelosi's supposed knowledge and inaction of what the Bush (mis-)administration was doing to detainees post-9/11, Powell would simply not be acceptable due to HIS knowledge and complicity in what Buscho was doing, particularly when he could have done the morally courageous thing and resigned instead of being a party to everything that was going on and/or shilling for the Iraq invasion even though he clearly had doubts about the whole endeavor. I also doubt, judging from the rampant criticism here at DU about Obama, that Powell would even be progressive enough for most people.

[rhett o rick]

79. Well then how about McCain?

Here's how I see it. Pres Obama got elected because of Howard Dean's and the party left's tremendous combined efforts. That and the country was sick of the republiCons. I think these elements will be missing next election. Of course the left will never support who-ever might be pushed by the new Democratic Party right but I think there will be a lot of right leaning moderates that would welcome someone other than Obama.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

83. What about McCain????

:wtf:

Is he defecting to the Dems? It might have seemed somewhat plausible sometime between 2000-2004 but he clearly "sold out" to Buscho in 2004 and the guy doesn't even act like he know what he stands for half the time. He'll be a Republican until the day he dies, mark my words. His daughter may be a different story but she isn't running for office nor planning to switch to the Dems AFAIK, so...............?????

Interesting theory about what might happen next election. Obama, unless his administration becomes some kind of unmitigated disaster of Bushian proportions between now and 2012 (although it seems like from many posts here, he's already destroyed the hopes that the left has had for him and "change" in general) is NOT going to get primaried. If memory serves, also, I think he said something about just stepping aside if he were to screw up THAT badly. Could THAT happen? Well, anything COULD happen, of course. Is it likely to happen? :shrug: It's kind of interesting that you would suggest that right-leaning moderates would want somebody different than Obama if the left ends up deserting Obama in 2012 because, after all, the left would presumably be deserting President Obama and the Democratic Party because they don't believe he is progressive enough or bringing enough "change" to the country after 8 years of Bushco, right? After all, many people here already think that he's become a tool of the banks and military-industrial complex and/or believe that he is essentially a kindler, gentler Bush, so why wouldn't he be popular among the right-leaning moderates whom many people feel he represents better than the left?

[rhett o rick]

85. The real question is what are the moderate republiCons going to do.

They were happy to have the radical right to help them but now the right is out of control.

[noamnety]

58. My tent is closed to him

and I'll be damned if I'll drink to "honor" war criminals.

"In 1963, Capt. Colin Powell was one of those advisers, serving a first tour with a South Vietnamese army unit. Powell's detachment sought to discourage support for the Viet Cong by torching villages throughout the A Shau Valley. While other U.S. advisers protested this countrywide strategy as brutal and counter-productive, Powell defended the "drain-the-sea" approach then -- and continued that defense in his 1995 memoirs, My American Journey."


http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html


Colin Powell's legacy at My Lai:

... "Powell claimed that U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were taught to treat Vietnamese courteously and respectfully.

[rhett o rick]

60. The Democratic tent is open to everyone. nm

[noamnety]

64. The OP said "our tent" not "democratic tent"

I'm not a democrat - they are too far to the right for me. But I am sure that tent would be flung open for Powell.

[rhett o rick]

68. This is Democratic Underground. When the op says "our tent" he was refering to the Democrats tent.

I am happy you have your own tent.

[noamnety]

73. Democratic Underground

is for "Democrats and other progressives." Many of us fall under other progressives because the party has compromised so much with the right that it IS the right now, in many respects.

From the responses in this thread, you can see there are a lot of people who would not be welcoming war criminals into their tent even if they are wearing a badge that says "D", which is as it should be.

[rhett o rick]

76. NONE OF US WOULD WELCOME WAR CRIMINALS.

The point is that Democrats talk about having a big tent. Sen Specter joined the tent regardless of what most Democrats felt. It doesn't matter one little single difference what the rank and file Democrats want they have no say who gets into their tent. Of course none of them welcome war criminals, but how are they going to keep them out. I think the Democrats are going to lose their tent to the moderate republiCons.

It makes people feel very good to be indignant and say that they won't let war criminals in their tent. And if they are talking about the pup-tent in their back yard, i say go for it. But with all their indignant tough talk, they can not keep the war criminals out of the Democratic tent.

[noamnety]

80. "what the rank and file Democrats want they have no say who gets into their tent."

Why did you start the thread? I'm quite confused on whatever point you are trying to make here by asking our opinion and then getting in our faces to post IN ALL CAPS what our opinion is, and then being rude to those who posted our opinion, claiming we did it to feel good about being indignant. Why ask, if you feel superior to those who answer and already know their opinion?

(on a side note, unlike you I believe many even on DU would welcome that war criminal into their tent, and would have even embraced him running as VP on a ticket at one point in time.)

[rhett o rick]

84. The purpose of the thread was to start the discussion about the Democratic Party

shifting to the right. As more and more registered voters switch parties I believe we will see more and more moderate republiCon Congress-critters also shift. The subject of the thread was of course rhetorical. Of course "our tent" the Democratic Tent is big enough. Sen Specter's switch proved it. I see this as a huge problem for the future of the Party which I see is already controlled by the corporatist DLC and the damn Red Dog Democrats. Whether this is a problem for Pres Obama getting elected is for discussion. I think a right leaning moderate mite give him a good run.

As far as the caps, I apologize. I was getting frustrated with comments how much people didn't like Powell. Like him or not has nothing to do with whether he gets in the tent. And has nothing to do with what the party will do, especially the progressives, if the moderate republiCons join the currently strong right wing (DLC) of the Democratic Party.

[bemildred]

61. Powell is more than welcome to support the Democratic Party.

As is anyone else.

[LSdemocrat]

62. Specter, Snowe, Collins, and Powell prove that the center-right doesn't have a party to call home

I've always suspected that the whole "Unity 08" crowd was mostly just a bunch of true moderate/center-right Republicans who had realized that their party had just become batshit crazy. These people were basically hoping that there were Democrats who felt the same way, but were mistaken.

[Mr. Ected]

63. Let Him Fully Repudiate the Bush Administration First

And then I might consider him a friend and not simply an opportunist.

[firehorse]

65. He could have run before and he didn't.

I don't think he's interested in being president. He had his chance and he didn't want to before. Why should he now?

His wife is bi-polar and he didn't want to add stress to the family.

[TankLV]

66. No. War. Criminals. !!!

WTF are you smoking?!!!

[Sebastian Doyle]

71. Fuck Colin Powell

And his toad ass looking son who fucked up the FCC right along with him.

In fact, let me say "fuck" again, just to piss off little Mikey Powell. Too bad you can't fine people for swearing online, eh, asshole?

[Skittles]

72. he whored for bush to start a senseless war

he can rot in hell

[LostinVA]

75. He gave legitimacy to the Invasion of Iraq, and he authored DADT

The hell with him.

[rhett o rick]

77. What do you think the moderate republiCons are going to do? nm

[Karmadillo]

78. Sad to say it, but probably so.

nt

[Joe Fields]

81. You worry about Powell, when the tent isn't big enough for us.

[Dukkha]

82. Fuck no

it's not big enough for a lot of RW people who somehow manage to sneak through the back door to infest their propaganda. He's a war criminal can will never be forgiven.

[rhett o rick]

86. So how are you going to keep him out? nm