On Human Nature...

[OneGrassRoot]

I'm struggling with something and I would appreciate thoughtful insight and sharing of experiences. I hope it's okay to post in GD, as it's a serious, general question.

On one hand, I believe that, for the most part, human beings are decent and don't inherently want to harm others. There are some who are despicable and destroy everything in their path; I acknowledge that, regardless of why or what led them to that point.

The environment and culture certainly can influence how we treat one another. I acknowledge that as well.

My pondering involves the U.S. primarily, since that's the only culture I'm intimately familiar with.

On the other hand, there is a certain percentage of our citizenry who seem to condone violence, including turning away from violence against innocents. I'm thinking of the Cheney-Palin-Limbaugh-Faux News crowd. We know that for most of the people who follow these types of "leaders," their every move is based in fear. They are afraid, so they come across in a bullying, chest-thumping, "We're Number One!" way.

I honestly believe racism, sexism, and a blind follower mentality (again, because they are afraid) rules this group. They follow political, religious and cultural leaders who ease their fears by focusing on anger. It's much easier to be angry -- and have a target of that anger -- than to admit this life isn't easy and that not everything is black or white.

All that said, I don't believe all of those people are lacking empathy or compassion. It's well hidden...no doubt about that...lol.

But when we have natural disasters, all people in a community tend to come together, regardless of the things that separate us when we're not in overt crisis mode. We were united as a country (for the most part) after 9/11.

When there is an outside force that "attacks" -- be it Mother Nature or an enemy of the state -- we as a citizenry DO come together and these other differences seem to fall by the wayside.

Then again, if a crisis lasts TOO long, the fear mode brings these differences to the surface once more and people start blaming one another FOR the crisis.

Everyone is different, every situation is different. I get that. And not everyone can come together and reconcile differences.

But what is it that enables the majority of us to get beyond these differences -- and not even SEE them -- and work together in times of crisis?

Our first instinct is to band together and help one another; then, when it seems the crisis is ongoing, the instinct (for some?) is survival of the fittest.

The last election made it glaringly apparent to me that we have distinctly different worldviews. The Cheney crowd versus most of us here.

Where is the commonality? How can we find it? I know that if a tornado were to hit my home this afternoon, my Palin-lovin' neighbor (who despises me) would help and not ignore my crisis. I know politics would fly out the window, so would color of skin and religion.

How can we unite when not in an extreme, overt crisis state?

(I realize this conversation could go off on tangents based words and phrases like "enemy of state" and "crisis" -- as so many things are relative -- but my question is about human nature in general, and trying to wrap my brain around whether or not the majority of people DO have empathy at the core, even if buried below layers of fear and hatred and hypocrisy.)

[cali]

1. For what it's worth, here's what I believe about human nature:

1) It's paradoxical. E.M. Forster said: "Only connect the prose and the passion and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer." Most human beings aren't integrated and we operate in a fragmented, groping way when confronted with that which we fear.

2) Most human beings are persuadable. There's ample evoidence of that and I believe it's rooted in the above.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. What a GREAT quote!

"Most human beings aren't integrated and we operate in a fragmented, groping way when confronted with that which we fear."

THAT is a great quote as well.

I've been wondering about the fragmented nature of our society, and we as individuals, for a while now. The gentleman who founded Grameen Bank was on Bill Maher Friday night and touched upon this as well, saying how we are "multidimensional" beings but our society is very one-dimensional, very me, me, me.

Integration, fragmentation, both key words coming up for me of late.

Of course, I realize that for the Cheney types in positions of leadership, divide and conquer is the name of the game. Integration and unity are NOT in their best interests.

Thanks much, Cali. :)

[cali]

3. You're more than welcome. I thank you for the OP

I think this is worthy of thoughtful discussion. Yes, we live in a fragmented society that is out of touch with the natural world and generally lacks community. But this isn't true just for our society. It's true for much of the world. Is there an answer? Is there anything we can do? I don't know, but a lot of the reason I chose, many years ago, to live where and how I live is inspired by that knowledge.

By the way, I highly recommend reading "Howard's End". Yes, it's a novel but it's also a philosophy of how to survive; of what humans need and what's vitally important to nourish us. That's where the Forster quote is from. I also recommend reading Forster's "Two Cheers For Democracy", and in particular the essay "What I believe". It can be found by googling. It's fantastic and accessible.

Cheers,

cali

[OneGrassRoot]

9. I HIGHLY recommend Forster's work if this OP resonates at all

Cali, thank you for suggesting "What I Believe."

I kept highlighting passages to copy and paste here for others, as his words and insights are extraordinarily appropriate and applicable to these times. But there were too many!

So, I urge others who read this thread to consider reading Forster's works.

I shall be getting "Howard's End" from the library very soon.

Once again, thanks, Cali. :)

[surrealAmerican]

4. It has been my observation that the vast majority ...

.. of people can be expected to do what they think is the right thing, but you can't count on most people to put a lot of thought into figuring out what is right.

In times that are not crisis, you need to appeal to people's reason. It's hard to do, considering we have a sizable segment of our population that is anti-intellectual to an extreme.

[OneGrassRoot]

6. Anti-intellectualism, apathy -- molded by....

M$M whose agenda is not in the best interest of the citizens. So true.

Thank you. :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. "If it's natural to kill, how come men have to go into training to learn how?" Joan Baez

Nature or nurture?

I come down on the side of nurture. Whether parental or societal.

[OneGrassRoot]

7. Another great quote...

Thank you so much.

:)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. My pleasure.

:hi:

"The finger pulls the trigger, but the trigger may also be pulling the finger." Dr. Leonard Berkowitz

[i am who i am]

10. Moral Relativism, The Reality Within Reality within perceived reality, In God's Image or a Worm?

Choice, Fear, Life, Death, are all illusions. We as humans have the unique ability to observe and comprehend everything about our natural world. These truths are self evident for one who is awake. Humans can consciously move in and out of any situation and not only understand the situation but also understand what motivated their behaviors.(self awareness)

Why?

Only humans have this ability, on the planet we call Earth. It's so inherent and seamless to every waking moment that one usually goes their entire life unaware that this special gift that one has been blessed with even exists. It's this gift from the Heavenly Creator of all, that models one in Gods image. It's this gift that allows one to observe and consciously continue to advance society and change our reality as we see fit, usually for the betterment of the majority.

This is the origins of Greek Democracy, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Kabal. Modern physics has proven the cores of these methodologies to be true.
The natural world we live in is alive and constantly moving, as is the entire universe. We now know everything is simply waves of energy, you and I are mass, like a table and chairs which only can exists because of these waves. These waves hit molecules, compounds and create mass, objects like cars and hats and you and I.

Although how we and animals are animated is still unknown, scientifically...(The soul)

The underlying concept works like this. I think there for I exist. When one observes life, only then does it become real. If no one is around to observe then there will be nothing. This is humanities greatest gift, a gift which has been stolen and hidden in order to turn the entire human race into worms.

Remember the concept of an atom with spinning particles around the nucleus, much like our solar system and all systems. This is the best part, all of these little spinning pieces exert gravitational forces upon each other, which keeps them moving, and pulling on the molecule next to them. So essentially everything is moving and connected and exerting forces upon each other.

This is why some scientist hypothesized that splitting the atom could cause a chain reaction which would cause every atom to subsequently explode. We know it did not. This is also the same fears behind the Large Hadron Collider and the search for the God Particle, in Illinois and Scandinavia.

These universal moving forces control human behavior. Humans which do not stay constantly aware of why one is doing whatever it is one is doing and the ramifications of ones actions. This type of unaware human existence is one of a reduced to the lowest type Earthly existence for Earthly animated matter. This type existence is one of a worm, where the consciousness of Earthly forces results in eat, poop, reproduce. Then we have other levels of existence, where people kill, other people, so they may build more and spread out like ants or viruses. We have humans who exist by hunting other humans like predatory animals. And we have humans who exist to achieve power, wealth, and dominance, like cycles of weather or other natural systems which build, overtake or consume allot.

Then there are the chosen few who are truly awake. These individuals are the ones who truly have the ability to change the world for the better as they are constantly awake to the reality of why they are doing what they are doing and how to counteract the natural Earthly/ Universally fluctuating natural physical forces which confound, confuse, and derail most of humanities existence.

This awake state is one of enlightenment, it's dangerous and not easy to achieve. When some people try to wake up they completely go insane. Being truly awake is comprised of breaking any and all psychological conditioning. Stepping outside the traditional human conditioning, the going on of things, life as it exist everyday. And viewing life from a more enlightened perspective, from a wise and noble vantage point, one tempered every second by selflessness, compassion and most importantly the will to understand why and what things mean.

Selfless compassion and love for all animated life holding all life sacred is the true human nature, the end of all suffering and a life in Gods image. Which gives one infinite understanding of all natural laws which are simply systems, if one can understand one system then they can understand all systems This is espoused in every major religion and it's the true path to enlightenment and eternal life. One must begin by understanding that they understand nothing and that fear does not exist, death should not be looked at as the end, but as the beginning. By rejecting all desires, materialism and accepting the inevitable death only then is one truly free. When one wakes from the great sleep of conditioned existence one becomes the un mortal, the deathless. One begins to truly see for the first time, many years of great wisdom from past life existence, then through meditation is one able to connect the dots, building their knowledge and change the world. This is the true nature of humanity, in Gods image, everyone else are merely animals. They should know better and because they don't they are doomed, expendable, the living dead and in the continual going on and on of conditioned existence humanity keeps going on and on and they kill each other at will, war, or starve, fornicate, enslave and consume themselves into a more appropriate lesser existence one matching their actions whilst sinning, animated in Gods image.

Denial is the most predictable of the human conditioned responses. This can only be truly understood by those who are awake, every second of every humans existence should be dedicated to this goal. This is the true human nature which has been stolen in America, and the core of every issue we now struggle with as a nation is a direct ramification of our horrific treatment and abandonment of the homeless and less fortunate. They are the Saints of the days of old, they are the wisest ones that are truly awake to reality and now as a nation we shall reap what we have sown.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. Welcome, i am who i am....

and thank you for sharing your thoughts and insights.

:hi:

[handmade34]

13. ignorance is bliss goes the saying

willfull ignornace is sad and so many of us lack the courage to not be...

"Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding" -gibran

[canetoad]

12. I often think about self-interest,

and how, in its broadest definition, it shapes our lives and interaction with others.

All humans are somewhere along the self-interest (selfishness) spectrum. At one end are those who are totally focussed on only their own wants and needs, at the other are those who are only concerned about others. I doubt that many people fall into either extreme absolutely, both being equally unhealthy.

Acting in self-interest is often at the expense of another - 'I've got mine, who cares about you?' War, rape, fraud, parking over someone's driveway - all examples of self-interest overriding the greater good.

In general, I am a fairly optimistic person, but I believe self-interest is hard wired into humans. Always has been, always will. It is to what degree that is important.