Polygamy and Same Sex marriage should not be equated;

[question everything]

doing so will only weaken the cause.

Marriage should be between two consenting adults and, for my opinion, it can also involve family members.

The polygamy that we know here, that we saw last year with that sect is sheer exploitation. First, all the polygamy cases that exist are between one man and several women. We have not seen any cases of one woman and several husbands.

Second, after seeing these women last year, with their lifeless appearance, a barely audible voice, meek and obedience stance - can anyone really attach the term "consent" to them? What about the under age girls that join the harems?

I realize that we, DUers like to think of ourselves as, oh, so enlightened, and so supportive of civil rights for everyone. But polygamy, at least the ones that we know of has nothing to do with consent, free will, or civil liberties, and everything to do with the good old exploitation of women for the pleasure of men.

Please, reconsider.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. Umm...the only people I've ever seen make that comparision are AGAINST gay marriage

So I have no clue why you're addressing your "gay friends."

[Starbucks Anarchist]

7. You know, "some people say..."

And by "some people," I mean hallucinations created in a vacuum of strawmen.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

11. Yep

[TheWraith]

12. Some people have referred to it in the context of whacking the Mormons.

I.e. they loudly oppose gay marriage but turn a blind eye to their schismatic factions practicing polygamy. That's the only example I can think of.

[GodlessBiker]

13. Agreed. The bigots say same-sex marriage will lead to polygamy.

[question everything]

14. Look at several threads on this forum, as well as a "poll"

where those of us voted NO on legal recognition of polygamy were labeled as "anti gay marriage."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5784447

[NeedleCast]

24. I don't see how you can see it as non-discriminatory

You keep using the FLDS as your example of why polygamy shouldn't be recognized as if this is the only end game for polygamy. Further, you seem to be arguing that because it can be abused, it shouldn't be allowed. I'm happy to stand with you in ending abusive relationships but that's going to require nullifying a whole shitload of "traditional" marriages as well.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

26. So you have to be gay to support gay marriage?

I'm straight and I support it 110%.

[question everything]

33. Sigh. Will explain slowly

That link that I gave had some posters equating opposing polygamy with opposition to gay marriage. This is wrong. Like you, I support gay marriage but not polygamy for the reasons stated in the OP.

And my point is that the two should NOT be equated. That one can, and should, oppose polygamy while support gay marriage. And my conclusion is that equating the two will just hurt the gay marriage cause.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

36. Do you understand English?

That link that I gave had some posters equating opposing polygamy with opposition to gay marriage. This is wrong. Like you, I support gay marriage but not polygamy for the reasons stated in the OP.

And my point is that the two should NOT be equated. That one can, and should, oppose polygamy while support gay marriage. And my conclusion is that equating the two will just hurt the gay marriage cause.

That STILL does not explain why you addressed your OP to gay people specifically.

[question everything]

41. I changed the subject line

it was a mistake on my part to think that the ones expressing that opinion were gays. I am not going around DU taking notes of who is gay and who is not. None of my business.

But now I understand other threads in the past two weeks, pointing how gays have been descending on other DUers who did not express a solid support of Prop. 8.

Not that I need to justify myself to you or to other DUers, but here is what I post last week

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5723371

[LostinVA]

45. What gays are "descending on you" -- wtf?

YOU are the being condescending and accusatory in your OP, yet
teh gays" are swarming you? It's especially funny since most of the posters calling you on this aren't even gay.

:eyes:

[LostinVA]

56. I just came flying in and descended like Bruno on Eminem

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

58. That was me above

[conscious evolution]

73. T'ain't smacker

:hide:

[question everything]

60. Please read again

As a fellow Hillary supporter I always thought that you were quite clever and capable of reading and understanding what others are saying.

So if you will read again you will see that I said: "descending on others," not on me, and was referring to this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5739538

And I did not bother to read the whole thread to see whether you and your bikini-clad weapon-holding mate were throwing fires there, too.

[LostinVA]

68. I read and understood what you said

[LostinVA]

69. I read and understood what you said

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

28. Well, that's ridiculous

I'm gay, support gay marriage, and I don't support polygamy.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

29. Well, that's ridiculous

I'm gay, support gay marriage, and I don't support polygamy.

[paulsby]

82. it's not a matter of equating

it's a matter of deciding if the govt. should only sanction CERTAIN kinds of marriages (like opposite sex only, opposite AND same sex, and/or polygamous marriages)

obviously, polygamous marriages are different in many respects from either of the other two types we speak about more frequently.

and similar in other respects.

personally, i don't have an opinion yet on polygamy (as to whether it should have similar rights/responsibilities as two party marriage).

i simply need to reflect on it more, and read more about it.

i detest kneejerking. it took me several months to decide to support gay marriage (which i have supported for several years), and several years to get converted to the pro gun rights side.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. Which GLBT DUers said this?

And what the hell is this:

Marriage should be between two consenting adults and, for my opinion, it can also involve family members.

[question everything]

17. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5784447

[Starbucks Anarchist]

22. How do you know they're GLBT?

Do you know them personally? Did they tell you? Have you ever seen a thread in the GLBT forum promoting polygamy?

Your OP is offensive and false.

[question everything]

25. I don't. But on that thread some claim

that if one objects to polygamy marriage then this means that the same person object to gay marriage. Was the very first respons.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

27. Then why does your OP say "To our gay friends"?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

30. So they can lecture the gays

Duh.

[question everything]

37. And to think that you looked so lovely with that bikini top

and a menacing cutting tool

Glad it is not aimed at me

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

39. It's how I roll

[Starbucks Anarchist]

40. If only she was straight and a blood relative, you might have a chance.

[LostinVA]

46. lol

The blood relative thing is odd.

[LostinVA]

57. Still no

:rofl:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

59. That was me above

[Starbucks Anarchist]

62. Damn shape-shifting gay polygamists.

:P

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

63. Gotta watch out for us.

[question everything]

35. OK, I chanaged the subject line

hope you are happy

[Starbucks Anarchist]

38. No, because there was no reason to put it there in the first place.

Editing it out because of pressure doesn't make you any less ignorant.

[question everything]

44. Obviouly our brains and logic work differently

one example: I listen and learn and make changes as needed; you are a stubborn ass who gets a kick from kicking others. That's OK. Better do it online than the poor dog or your partner - if you have one - or your coworkers and subordinates - if you have ones.

Go ahead, have the last word, if this is what makes you happy.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

51. Yes, my brain is functional.

And the only one kicking others here is you when you needlessly attacked GLBT people in your OP. Don't kick good people unless you want to get kicked back.

[LostinVA]

48. I do wish I had a nice (but pevvy) woman to introduce you to

[Starbucks Anarchist]

52. Then get crackin'.

:P

[question everything]

61. Thanks. But no, thanks. I have been married for 31 years.

how about you?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

65. Not only are you needlessly offensive, you also can't follow a thread.

She was talking to me.

[WildEyedLiberal]

34. I know WTF

So "LGBT people" should not "promote polygamy" but SHOULD promote incest?

:wtf:

:banghead:

[EOTE]

3. So you believe marriage can be between family members? But can't involve more than 2 people?

Listen, the members of that cult are fucked up and would be regardless of how many wives they had. If it's not consensual, THAT is the problem, not the fact that there are multiple husbands or wives. It is also illegal for underage kids to get married and/or have sex. If consent is lacking, it doesn't matter what type of marriage you're talking about, it's illegal.

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. I'd like to see an example of a gay DU member posting in support of polygamy

Surely you must have a wealth of examples to share. Links please.

[question everything]

16. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5784447

[Cronus Protagonist]

79. Looks like a tempest in a teapot

The OP of that thread posted a POLL, support for polyamorous marriage lost, and the OP doesn't state his or her sexual orientation.

Nice try, though. Having said that, if there were widespread support for poly-anything marriage, I would agree with your OP here, in that it would be detrimental to the movement.

[get the red out]

5. Thank you!

I agree with what you stated about polygamy. That cult polygamy should not be supported, those women are raised to be nothing but slaves with no contact to the real world, they don't even know they have human rights! And a lot of liberals simply don't give a damn about thier captivity and it makes me ill.

But I haven't seen any gay people comparing gay marriage and polygamy, usually it is the conservative talkers that do that.

[question everything]

21. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5784447

[Mythsaje]

6. Only because those involved in polyamoury live so far under the radar

that no one knows about them. The LDS cults are the only ones standing front and center. That doesn't mean that ALL such relationships are the same.

[CTyankee]

19. Married people who have an agreement to have other relationships

is not the business of the state as long as they are consenting adults. And it's none of my business. I just don't think it is good public policy to have them legal in terms of civil marriage.

[Mythsaje]

43. Why? n/t

[CTyankee]

91. Probably because of all the claims on estates, the problems with children's custody and

inheritances, conflicts with multiple people claiming their rights with regard to people in hospitals, conflicts over who gets federal benefits. Think about it. I don't know if you have ever been thru this, but I have when my mother needed me, as her designated Power of Attorney, to make decisions on her behalf. Those decisions were on financial and ultimately health issues. I cannot see how the law can deal with multiple partners in this kind of situation. Who wins? Do you want to have multiple people arguing at your bedside in the hospital as you lay dying?

Please, think this thing through just a little longer...

[TheWraith]

8. A word in defense of polygamy.

Yes, as some of the lunatic sects practice it, it's exploitation. But then exploitation and abuse can happen without polygamy too. It's the people who are at fault, not the practice--and for my money, we shouldn't be telling rational, consenting adults what they can or can't do. But that's a long way off if ever.

[question everything]

47. You can defend it, if you want

but linking it to gay marriage - and apparently, gays on DU do not - will hurt the cause of gay marriage.

[bkkyosemite]

9. Women in the case that you mention are nothing but sex slaves who wash, clean and take care of their

one man.....while he gets to choose door number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, .....where is Ms. Bobbit when you need her.

This is the woman as a second class citizen in the scenario being discussed. And those who try to explain it's the same as a gay couple that is not the case. It is man's domination over women that we see in most third world countries just westernized in large compounds here but no difference. Abuse.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. i wish you would reconsider your subject line

[GodlessBiker]

15. Yeah. Who the hell is "our"?

[redqueen]

18. Yep... everyone needs to be aware of this.

It's not just our 'gay friends' that fight for gay marriage. WTF.

[question everything]

53. I did (nt)

[brendan120678]

20. Sooo...polygamy bad, incest good?

I think that the State has more of an interest in banning incest over polygamy.

[CTyankee]

23. Why does it have to be one or the other? Let's just say "both." nt

[brendan120678]

31. I agree 100%...

Neither one should be allowed.

[LostinVA]

32. How can marriage include "family members" -- that's incest

[MercutioATC]

42. Politically, you're right. Philosophically, you're dead wrong.

I'll preface this with the declaration that I'm straight, so I don't necessarily have the same insights that a gay person would.

The issue isn't "gay vs. straight", it's a matter of choosing whomever you choose to have certain legal rights. If you support legislation allowing same-sex couples to have the same legal rights as opposite-sex couples on the basis of rights, you have to philosophically support equal rights for all couples...or triads...or whatever.

[question everything]

66. Well, I was talking politically

and I am not sure about philosophically. I think that most people seek a monogamous relations, one on one, with commitment. This is how we have been making progress. Many can understand this desire by either gays or straight.

[MercutioATC]

74. "Most people" are troglodytes.

...but progress is based on thoughtful deviation from the norm. The philosophically pure argument is that we have the right to assign legal status (as it pertains to us) to anybody.

[VelmaD]

49. Hypocrisy much

Everyone gets their underwear in a knot over right-wingers wanting to define marriage as only one man and one woman. But it's perfectly ok for you to arbitrarily define marriage as only between two people regardless of gender.

And please, do some fucking research. As a poly women with multiple male partners, I'm getting really tired of people comparing me to the fucking FDLS. If you don't know about other poly arrangement besides one man several women, it's because you haven't bothered to educate yourself.

[Tim01]

77. Much support from me.

I'm pretty stunned by the responses. I'm waiting for the gays to say poly relationships aren't natural.

Weird.

[unpossibles]

50. you are confusing "polygamy" as the Mormons practice

with "polyamory" as other people practice, which is not inherently sexist.

Point being, I am not into either, but frankly whatever consenting adults want to do is fine with me.

[omega minimo]

54. Did your friends make you change your OP title?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

55. That's how we swarm.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

64. I think we need a theme song

[Starbucks Anarchist]

67. Flight of the Bumblebee?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y41DykcpgRg

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

71. Perfect!

[question everything]

70. I don't have friends here.

I went to GLBT forum and did not find there any of the ones who do equate polygamy and gay marriage so I changed it. In contrast to some miserable posters here, who, apparently have no life outside DU, who have nothing better to do but to stalk someone, I do read and learn and, if needed, change.

And I have tried to respond to the ones with legitimate comments and let the others have the last word. This apparently, is the only pleasure they have in life.

[omega minimo]

72. Fascinating how absolutely toxic and Stepford wife that reply is.

[question everything]

75. How easy it is to just shoot one sentnece that

makes no sense to reasonable people, but that make you feel, oh, so smug and so clever.

I have no idea what a Stepford wife type of reply is but, no doubt, you are the experienced one to know.

Are you gay?

Just for future reference, to know to avoid any of your posts.

And, go ahead, have the last word. It will make you so happy and so... Stepford wife like?

[omega minimo]

83. How easy it is to just shoot one post that

makes no sense to reasonable people, but that make you feel, oh, so smug and so clever.

Just for future reference, to know to avoid any of your posts.

And, go ahead, have the last word. It will make you so happy and so... Stepford wife like?

[redqueen]

80. What a very strange question.

:wtf:

[omega minimo]

84. You had to see the original.

[redqueen]

85. I did.

I was one of the people who agreed it should be changed.

[omega minimo]

86. What was objectionable?

[redqueen]

87. That it was addressed only to gay people,

as if they're the only ones fighting for gay people's right to get married.

[james at 49]

76. Actually, Mormons are not the only peoples to practice poly-whatever

I was listening to a Black man advocate for it on the radio this morning, claiming African origins. And he seemed to be talking gender equality; namely, that a woman has the right to get a harem (his-em?) of men.

Whatever. I wish that people wouldn't get married. Period. Lord knows I NEVER will!

[Kitty Herder]

78. Agreed. I went to school with girls from a polygamist family.

Their lives were so sad and so limited in their opportunities. Gay marriage is about an agreement between two people, the same as same-sex marriage. Polygamy is about exploiting women and girls.

[redqueen]

81. I completely agree.

Seems to me the whole point of marriage is declare an *exclusive* relationship, intended to be permanently exclusive.

[Geek_Girl]

88. I agree with you on the current situation of Polygamy

but if polygamy was legal I believe the nature of polygamy would change. Fundamentalist Mormons would not have to live in secret and under the radar of the law. Adult women who choose to live this kind of lifestyle could do so without living in secret or living on some kind of crazy compound where abuse and exploitation of women goes unchecked. Bring this out into the light and let adults choose for themselves.

[KoKo]

89. ALL SEX IS BAD...it CAUSES "Unintended Consequences!"

Didn't you learn that in grade school?

[lightningandsnow]

90. I'm bi and poly.

I'm sorry if I'm "weakening the cause". I did post that poll out of personal interest.

Quite frankly, in the future, I would like the option to potentially be in a triad, and get some legal recognition for that.

I've been in poly relationships before, and it was nothing like that sect.