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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:13 PM
Original message
It's time to invade North Korea
This may be controversial but consider the following:
1. North Korea is now ruled by a 21-year-old boy man desperate to prove to the military that he is a "real man" and is struggling to ensure that the power his father granted him is not taken away by the military. All of the North's insane actions are done by an insecure kid trying to make sure that his big brothers in the military don't take his prize away from him. It's the equivalent of a urinating contest right now over there with each faction trying to pove that it's tougher than the other IMO.
2. North Korea is in violation of MULTIPLE UN resolutions and of the entire international community. What is its response? One of their envoys in Tokyo said several weeks ago "we could care less what the US or international community says or does." It's time to punish the North for violating international law.
3. For YEARS, North Korea has kidnapped Japanese citizens and has enslaved them. Another violation of international law.
4. The detention of the two American journalists in NK, indeed the capture (Ms. Ling and her compatriot were on the southern side of the border) is a brutal act. Sentencing them to 12 years in a gulag certain to cause death is outrageous and a sign of their tyranny. They have kidnapped two American citizens and are in effect torturing them. Americans are being tortured!
5. A Nuclear North Korea is entirely unacceptable and is destablizing to the entire world. You and I and eveyone knows that Mr. Il will be selling nuclear weapons to Al Qaeda and anyone else at his earliest opportunity. When a North-Korean made nuclear bomb is detonated in NYC, Washington or Los Angeles by AQ, do you have any idea what the consequences will be?
6. Look at satelite images, South Korea is vibrant, strong, full of life. North Korea is in darkness with almost no electricity.
7. North Korea brutally supresses any and all freedom of expression, democratic rule, music. The way of life forced upon the people by their regime is outrageous.
8. Millions of North Koreans have been killed by their regime due to a massive famine, as it sends all of the food to it's military and ignores the plight of its people.
9. The Il family has been known to hire prostitutes, to be rapists, and to have delusions of grandeur. They are not fit to rule a nuclear state.
10. Above all else, they are the most dangerous threat that this world has known in the post world war II era absent the Soviet Union. Do you have any relatives in Washington, NYC or Los Angeles? Just keep in mind that an Il made nuclear weapon may one day kill them. Also, keep in mind, that we have the most progressive, most decent, most willing to listen US president in the past 50 years in office. President Obama makes overtures of peace and good will towards North Korea along with Secretary Clinton. They stab him and her in the back.

I'm sick of these thugs. Here's what we do:
1. We withdraw some troops from Iraq to transfer to the DMZ. We mobilize the national guard. We use the forces that we are always told are prepared to fight a 2 front war. This force would consist of roughly 300,000.
2. Through an intensive international campaign utilizing the good will that President Obama has built up in Europe, we get the Europeans to commit 200,000 trooops to a NATO led force.
3. We mass our 500,000 NATO troops (basically Kosovo on steroids) on the border of NK and demand the immediate release of our citizens and the complete and total demilitarization of the North or else we invade.

Considering that the North is starving, has no electricity, and that it's military is not likely to be fiercely commited to the cause, I think that this would be relatively easy. The North will collapse in on itself much like Saddam's Iraq did pre the Bush bungling beyond all repair of course.

As for any thoughts that this isn't a very democratic thing to do, President Truman fought in Korea, President Kennedy invaded Cuba, President Clinton fought Iraq, Haiti and Yugoslavia. Democrats have just as strong if not a better record of defending the American people than Shrub and the rest of the GOP clowns did.

Each day, these thugs issue threats about total nuclear war or a premptive nuclear strike. They are out of control. I don't want to see the world that is envisaged for us by the despots of Pyongyang. Move now. Take them out. The North Koreans will welcome the demilitiarization, famine relief and democracy that we will bring. It's either that or a mushroom cloud over our dearest cities.

Iraq was a threat to no one. Saddam a petty dictator. Not worthy of a US invasion.

North Korea, on the other hand, is the real deal and we'd be in a FAR stronger position if Bush hadn't committed hundreds of thousands to Iraq in an illegal war based on false pretenses. Nonetheless, the North Korean threat remains and grows by the day and must be dealt with now before it's too late.


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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. after you nt
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well, strap on yer guns there buddy, have fun, be sure to write. eom
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think the situation calls for restraint.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. a regime change? coup? what?
well it's alot easier than invading them
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
72. For me it's a case of preferring diplomacy and talk to force and slaughter.
I ask myself, "What would Joan Baez do?" and go from there.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-16-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #72
136. diplomacy is the best course
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. NK operates under China's protection. China needs to give them the Come To Jesus talk.
And they need to do it NOW.
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. China will handle it
it's just a matter of time you will see china will bitch slap the little dictator.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. North Korea has 24 million people. nt
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Thanks for the
population update but do you have a point.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Yep, and China has 30 million surplus males.
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obliviously Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. Thanks, good point! N/T
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
129. a hundred divisions of the PLA should be able to do it.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Really? n/t
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Invade Utah
Cede California and Florida to Sri Lanka, outlaw navel exposure, appoint Donald Trump as Earl of Nebraska, fund ass tatoo removal, and leave the rest of the world the fuck alone.

The US has enough domestic lunacy to last a lifetime.
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Believe me, I know how crazy my idea may sound
and I never would have thought to even think of a North Korean invasion as little as 2 months ago but they have engaged in such a shocking series of actions over the past 2 weeks alone even that I am starting to think that they are intent on our destruction. I know that the troops would be hard to come by but nuclear detonations in NYC, LA and D.C. are untenable.

I agree with the poster that said that China has to give them the come to jesus talk and to do it now. If China is unwilling, then I see no other way but my way unfortunately.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. If the US can only feel "safe" through perpetual invasion and war...
then whats the fucking point anyway?
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
58. NK has no delivery system capable of reaching those cities.
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 01:27 AM by Statistical
Hawaii is theoretical but they lack an RV or even ability to put something in orbit so far.

Alaska maybe in 5-7 years? California in a decade+?

DC & NYC are on wrong side of the globe. Way out of NK range.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
128. South Korea isn't out of reach, though...
and NK isn't above using the population of Seoul as human shields. They may also be able to deliver nukes to SK (if by no other way, then by suicide subs or aircraft).

I have read that the largest concentration of artillery on this planet is on the NK side of the DMZ, aimed at South Korean population centers. NK has a gun to South Korea's head, and they know it, as do we.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
98. So what's changed in the last two months?
They've had nukes for a few years. This isn't the first time they've tested a long range missile; and all of their tests so far have FAILED. They've been saber rattling for a very long time, constantly threatening war with the US and South Korea. It's all part of their internal propaganda, to shore up support from the North Korean people, to rally them against the "evil" US.

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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
100. So...you're serious?
Really? I'm still holding out hope this was satirical.

If so: well done.

If not: you first.
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
56. Have the UN mandate Utah back to the Utes & put the Mormons into refugee camps.
We could have our own I/P conflict.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
127. Now there's a cause I can get behind!
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. North Korea, like the US, spends an ungodly amount of its money on improving its military.
I would really prefer it if we could end this peacefully.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Cool
We can watch Seoul in flames and rockets over Tokyo, it'll be awesome.

You can be in charge of the millions of We're So Sorry cards we'll be sending out.
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Did you know that they are threatening to launch an ICBM at the west coast?
Apparently, that is their next move in this sick game that they are playing.

And I totally take your point about Tokyo and especially Seoul in flames. We could move patriot missile batteries to Tokyo and Seoul to protect them as much as possible though and also our invasion fleet would protect Seoul as well. Our spec. ops could take out the North rocket launcher sites as well don't forget along with the massive air power that we would rain down on their military capability as well.

Don't forget though, as bad as that is, we know that they intend to sell their nuclear weapons to AQ and other terrorist groups. Mushroom clouds over some of the world's largest cities are untenable as well.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. Threatening
They're always making overamped threats. They don't have a missile that'll reach Hawaii, let alone LA, NY, or DC like you're worried about. And making a long range missile is one thing, actually being able to mount nukes that are small and robust enough to make the trip is another, and there's no indication that NK has the ability to do that.

Your invasion scenario will do nothing but add US and UN soldiers to die in the conflagration. Do you have any idea how long it takes to amass an invasion force? To set up the logistics? Do you think Kim will stand by during the months it'll take? He'll incinerate Seoul before they cross the Sea of Japan, it's ONLY 25 MILES FROM THE DMZ.
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:57 PM
Original message
Oh for sure
They don't have the capability NOW but if they are left unchecked for another 5-10 years, they may. Eventually, left alone, they will have a nuclear force every bit as threatening as that as the old USSR albeit almost certainly smaller.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
47. Nope
Your certitude doesn't make it so. It's a country utterly dependent on lifelines from outside countries. They can be stymied long before they reach your overwrought and improbable scenario.

I hope you've noticed how you've thus far blithely ignored the far more likely deaths of thousands, if not millions, of Koreans and Japanese in your feverish zeal to "protect" the US of A. If you haven't, slow down and consider it for a minute.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
60. 10 years maybe.
So we got 9 years.

To reach even Hawaii would require space capable missile, extra-atmo seperation, and a re-entry vehicle.

Technologies that took the US about 6 years to develop.
Remember this was a superpower during the height of the cold war.

Step 1) rocket with enough raw range
Step 2) put something into orbit
Step 3) develop RV
Step 4) rest RV
Step 5) refine RV and make it work on interntial guidance.
Step 6) miniaturize their nuclear device (the size of a dump truck)
Step 7) threaten Hawaii

They are on Step 0)

Of course in a decade our ground based interceptors in Alaska should have about 2-3 dozen test interceptions which likely means their nuke is already obsolete.

Rest easy. NK will rattle the sword but they never do anything.

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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Oh for sure
They don't have the capability NOW but if they are left unchecked for another 5-10 years, they may. Eventually, left alone, they will have a nuclear force every bit as threatening as that as the old USSR albeit almost certainly smaller.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
46. Please.
We're not involved in enough wars right now?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
66. "NYC, LA and D.C." are on the west coast?
Huh, amazing what I learn on DU
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
93. Oh really? Would you happen to have any PROOF of this?
Considering that all of their long-range missile tests have been failures, I'm sure that people in Los Angeles are quaking in their boots. Do you have any PROOF of your accusations? I mean hard proof, not the "proof" that was used to justify invading Iraq. And I hope your "proof" consists of more than routine North Korean propaganda.
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
101. OK, I call 'satire' on this whole thing
You had me going for a few minutes.

But unless they're selling 'crazy' by the pallet load at Costco, you can't possibly be as insane as you're making out.

Good job.
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lutherj Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's a slam dunk! nt
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. Good Lord, what is it? Mindless war-mongers' week?
First the bozo who wanted to nuke Iran, and now you!

Do you have ANY IDEA what you are proposing? Or have you been playing so many combat video games that you no longer realize that you're talking about real human beings getting slaughtered?
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Dude...
These guys will sell their nuclear weapons to groups that want to nuke us! A Korean peninsula war would have dramatically fewer civillian casualties than would be the case if our major cities were nuked.

And what's the other option? Letting NK nuclear, a massive Asian nuclear arms race, an Iran emboldened to develop it's own nuclear program, Saudi Arabia going nuclear in response. Oh great all of those tenous regimes in the middle east with nuclear weapons!

The line must be drawn here. Pay now or pay later.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. Down boy!
You're as much of a scaredy cat as any right-winger holed up in his bunker waiting for the black helicopters.

Tell you what. If you think war is so dandy, you just march yourself down to the army recruiting center first thing tomorrow morning and volunteer for duty in the DMZ.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
48. A Korean peninsula war?
You really think that it would stay contained on the Korean Peninsula? Who is supposed to fight this war? Are you going?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
110. Dude!
We'll sell weapons to groups that will eventually want to nuke us! The only reason Bush thought he could sell the "Iraq has WMD" story was because Poppy had the receipts to prove it.



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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
70. Someone wanted to nuke Iran?
PM me the link. I gotta see this
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #70
82. I don't have to PM you; the link is right here
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Wayne in WA State Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. One Korea
I wouldn't endorse invading North Korea, but I would start thinking about what will happen when that regime eventually collapses. Korea is after all one nation and one people that has been divided into two states, much like we used to have East and West Germany, or North and South Vietnam.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. South Koreans outnumber NK 2 to 1. Stop feeding NK and game over. nt
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NCDem60 Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
54. Uh-oh
"Korea is after all one nation and one people that has been divided into two states, much like we used to have East and West Germany, or North and South Vietnam."


That makes this the tie breaker.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Wow, I'm glad as shit you're not in charge. Will it pay for itself? Will we
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 11:28 PM by salguine
be greeted as liberators?
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bigjohn16 Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. The 10 million people in Seoul may have a problem with your idea. nt
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MajPayne2 Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
77. I am stationed in Seoul right now and I have
a huge fucking problem with this idea. It's always the ones who don't have to fight that are quick to scream for a war. Strap your fucking body armor on, get on the 14 hour flight, and come see reality before you start the warmongering bullshit. Those of us who wear the uniform and maintain situational awareness daily see shit the way it really is. A hero ain't nothing but a sandwich tough guy.
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #77
104. Like I was told..
"Don't worry - CP Tango is safe!" Of course I could never quite work out how I was going to live to ever see CP Tango with 50,000 rounds an hour raining down just in Seoul itself. Could you even imagine us actually freaking INVADING North Korea? One tunnel at a time, one bunker at a time, one trench line at a time, one ridgeline fortress after another. All while they're cheming the dog shit out of everything within artillery range.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #77
124. Point taken, MajP. You're right of course. Unless we ourselves are willing
to make the sacrifice, it's total BS.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. right, what could possibly go wrong?
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. A million man standing army.
You'll have to kill almost all of ,,. Good luck,
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. So the rationale for war is the release of 2 journalists who entered NK at thier own risk?
Not just war, but nuclear war.

Is this crazy talk or what?

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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. Yes. Please. Let's fight three wars at once.
Especially now that the two we are already in are going so swimmingly.
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. I just feel that...
Sanctions aren't working, carrots aren't working, nothing is working and they get more insane hour by hour. I don't see a solution....

Also, remember in 1993, President Clinton before the Carter peace mission came very very close to ordering war.
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. Joe Stalin was nuttier than a fruitcake, and we survived him having nukes
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 11:49 PM by OmahaBlueDog
I will agree that we may have to be prepared to go to war with North Korea to respond to provocation.

I would also agree that we need to, by any means necessary, keep them from selling nuclear technology. The fact that they worked so long and hard to produce nukes, however, is the product of the lesson that Bush and Cheney taught them in Iraq - we will invade nations we disagree with to impose our will, even without provocation or cause.

However, our best bet is to get the Chinese on board with the idea that the current situation in NK isn't helping China, the US, Russia, Japan, or the Koreans. I think that, if we have a backchannel to their military, we need to convey that the leaders of a NK military coup d'etat would be greeted with an open mind by the West.
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. I agree with you there...
That seems to make a whole lot more sense than my idea. The key really does lie with China it would seem.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #29
103. This post makes a lot more sense than the original post.
Direct military action/invasion against North Korea is a bad idea, for reasons which many, MANY people have already stated in other replies.

Setting up a bunch of small-scale "Rods from God" satellite systems targeted at all major North Korean military installations and artillery batteries is a good idea tactically, IF the payloads could be small enough that "friendly fire" wouldn't be a potential problem for those targets along the DMZ. However, it's a bad idea strategically and logistically, because it would be expensive, would take quite some time to build and launch, might not even be feasible with current technology, and would make the rest of the world nervous. Furthermore, I'm not real thrilled about the idea of killing hundreds of thousands of hapless, brainwashed conscripts, along with any civilians in the immediate area of the targets.

A backroom deal with China to arrange a coup and put some halfway sane people in charge over there is the best idea I've heard for dealing with North Korea. No cost to us, and the Chinese are responsible for this mess in the first place. Let them clean it up.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:41 PM
Original message
Yeah, and the Chinese would be on us like ants on a honey sandwich...
The next words after "know your enemy" should be "and know their allies".


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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. I honestly don't know where I stand on this. I think this is one
situation with regard to which I will just defer to our government. I just don't have enough information about how difficult it might be to invade North Korea or whether we really can isolate that country in any meaningful way. I'm a spectator on this one. N.Korea is a mystery to me. I just do not understand what is going on there. It's like a huge black hole.
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
102. Invading North Korea
would make Iraq look like a heated game of shuffleboard.

5,000 US military deaths in the first 6 years in Iraq.

5,000 US military deaths in the first 6 hours in North Korea.

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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. STFU
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amerikat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bad Idea.
North Korea is behaving like child having a temper tantrum.
While the rest of the world is trying to juggle severe
economic problems NK throws a tantrum for attention.
A wise parent would not give the child any attention
until the child stops misbehaving. We should lead them to
more appropriate actions.

We are already fighting two wars to many.

US diplomacy has been a disaster for eight years. It's time
to change that. Diplomacy is much better in the long run.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
35. FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! KILL THEM ALL BEFORE THEY KILL US!!!!!
I can't decide whether you're Dick Cheney or Colonel Kurtz. I'm leaning toward Cheney, however because Kurtz actually had a little class in his own way.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. POE POE POE POE POE POE POE POE POE POE POE POE POE POE
General Jack D. Ripper :D

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #41
49. Swampy! Great to see ya!
This thread brings Randy Newman's song to mind, "Poltical Science".

No one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too

Boom goes London and boom Paree
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono
And there'll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now


:loveya:
sw
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #49
55. Way'at dawlin'
:hi: scarletwoman :hug:

I stopped by for a while to stir the pot... havin' fun pokin' some laissez faire capitalists in their wallets in another thread. :D

Seems like the usual drama around here. I'll probably be gone for a long time again. I'm heading to the beaches near Rio de Janeiro Tuesday, then a week later back up to the northeast coast of Brazil... don't know when I will return to the USA. ;)

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. You poor thing, going into exile like that.
I would gladly free you from such a fate by trading places with you. :D

I'm so glad I got to *see* you! Have a wonderful time in Brazil, you know we'll all miss you! I hope you'll pop in once in awhile -- do they have the intertubes in Brazil?

Beaucoup d'amour,
sw
:hug:
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #55
65. Oh... my
You go on and have fun. I'll be over here... with my can of Pork 'n Beans... listening to the flies buzz... you lucky bastige.

(Good on ya, Swampie! Send us a card... you lucky bastige :D)
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #55
67. good lord you have it tough
good to see you posting sometimes, envious of you
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #55
92. HEY! I thought you were going to let me know when you were going to
expatriate so's I could sneaky pete it across the border and visit for a while.......

Ah, well.....You have fun down there and try not to have too much fun during Carnivale, eh???

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
37. BONGGGGG!!!!!!


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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Perfect.
Get out the hook. :D

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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #37
52. Oh my goodness that made me laugh.
It's getting pretty fucking wacko here!
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #37
111. BONGGGG!!!!!
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 12:16 PM by dysfunctional press
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
39. And while we are at it, let's invade Iran too!
:sarcasm:
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
68. Forget that. Let's start invading countries that have something we want - aside from oil. n/t
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #68
105. I say Switzerland's next!
Not a member of NATO, not a member of the EU, not a WWII ally, only very recently even became a member of the UN...

If that's not a 'rogue nation' then I'd like to know what one looks like!

Plus if this so-called 'Large Hadron Collider' isn't some sort of WMD super-weapon, then the Bible isn't a true story!
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #68
135. Yep, Iran and France
Iran has caviar, the Atlantic coast of Bordeaux has the best oysters in the world. Ever had fine caviar on a freshly opened oyster? It is worth going to war for!

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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'm trying to wrap my head around what 500,000 flag draped
coffins will look like.
If NK even thought we were going to invade them they would level every city within range of their artillery and rockets. As for our "air superiority" we don't have enough planes to do another prolonged engagement if we were dumb enough to start one.

Time to throttle back on the Tom Clancy novels my friend.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #43
113. it would certainly be a shot in the arm to the american casket industry...
(the flags are probably made in china).
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
122. Don't forget the AAA and SAMs
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 03:19 PM by TheMightyFavog
The density of Flak and SAM coverage in North Korea is insane. Any invading force would lose a lot of pilots to ground fire.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
44. China will deal with it
.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
45. Yeah, especially since the use of military force NEVER fucks things up worse than they are...
gets out of control, or gets masses of innocents killed.

I'm with you.

:sarcasm:
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
50. I'm starting to believe in mandatory drug testing for DU members n/t
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #50
64. I'm trying to imagine how that would work.
In the past I've thought some posters should have a breathalizer hooked up to their keyboards, but your proposal would take us into some interesting territory. :D
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sub.theory Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
51. Please tell me you're joking...
North Korea is going to be ANYTHING but "relatively easy". In fact invading North Korea is likely to make Iraq look like Candyland, and even wars like Vietnam or the first Korean War look like a cake walk by comparison. You don't seem to have any appreciation for the level of systematic brainwashing that the North Korean people have been exposed to. They have been taught for the last 60 years that America is the heart of all evil and that every last North Korean must fight to the death to prevent our invasion of the country. And they absolutely will! Their entire economy is based around supplying the military even to the point of starving their populace!

If we absolutely had to, yes, we could defeat North Korea. But it would come at a terrible, terrible cost. Invading North Korea must only be done as an option of last resort.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Exactly. Weren't the nimrods that dreamt up the Iraq war
telling us it would be relatively easy? And look at the situation now, six friggin' years later.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #51
95. It shouldn't even be an option
I cannot even think of a scenario where we should invade North Korea. Even if they didn't use chemical or atomic weapons, it would be a nightmare - and there's a good possibility they would use one if not both of those.

Containment has worked thus far. If they attack first, then yes by all means we would have every right to defend ourselves and our allies. But as long as they're simply posturing and issuing empty threats for internal propaganda, we have no right to invade.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
59. not a fan of massing our troops right next to nukes.
. The war would have to be won with airpower and strategic ops aimed at the leadership followed by efforts to win over the military. If they go nuclear everyone loses.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
61. It's Russia's turn.
We took their Afghanistan mess, they can take our Korea mess this time.



(I am not seriously advocating war. Just making an observation.)
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
62. I'm sick of warmongering, talking point-spewing, irrelevant armchair Warrior Asshats like you.
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 01:30 AM by TheWatcher
Fuck You.

Fuck Off.

And don't come back.
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Joe the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
63. It's time to stop invading other countries. n/t
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
69. Two wars we can't handle is enough
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
71. You might want to request more thorazine on your Froot Loops.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
73. No. That's a fucking insane suggestion.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
74. Better send about 100,000 body bags for our troops
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
75. We should have invaded NK in 2003 instead of Iran. A humanitarian act.nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. You forgot Poland.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
76. You first.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
79. Susan Boyle.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
80. Kim Jong Il is still alive.
Wouldn't it be smart to wait for his death and see if thing change at all?

They are not going to nuke anyone. Dictators are narcissists, and by definition not suicidal.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
81. Nice post, Bolton.
:eyes:
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
83. North Korea is an almost endless bunker that is bad for Chinese business.
North Koreans can barely feed themselves now and all bunkers smell bad. Given time North Korea will do something monumentally stupid. Also an invasion of Korea is in itself monumentally stupid. Let China who built this mess during the Cold War clean it out. Make no mistake the North Korean military knows how long they will last with Enhanced Radiation Weapons (ERW)a really awful way to die in a bunker.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
84. Seoul is within relentless firebombing range of NK. Invading means sacrificing Seoul. Period.
There's nothing that can be done unless you somehow quietly evacuate Seoul before invading and then consider the costs of losing all of Seoul's capital a win win.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
85. we've done enough fucking invading
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
86. They don't have a death wish, they know what will happen if they strike first
We will turn Pyongyang into nuclear glass if they try to pull THAT.

NK is pulling their usual blackmail stunts. We need to quit panicking and giving in every time they throw a temper tantrum and China needs to quit propping them up.
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
87. Even if I agreed with you, our country is broke
How would we fund it? We can't afford our military budget as it is. :shrug:
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
88. Are you in the military? Do you have any children in the military?
You wouldn't be one of them chickenhawks, would you?

And I guess you're willing to casually sacrifice MILLIONS of lives to fulfill your bloodlust.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
89. Hate to tell you this, but you're fucking nuts.
You want to start WWIII? Go read your history, Korea has always been a buffer state for China, if we go into Korea, we'll not only be taking on Korea, but China as well. That's why the last Korean conflict came to a draw, because we couldn't successfully take on China. Back then they didn't have the technology, but instead relied on overwhelming manpower. Now that they have the technology, we would get our ass handed to us. Not to mention that China could fuck us over in a heartbeat simply by fucking with our economy(they are our largest creditor, think about it).

Taking on Korea would be a huge mistake, rather we need to put the pressure on China to deal with them.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
90. No thanks. We're already bankrupt thanks to two needless wars.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
91. i will pay your carfare to the recruitment office
gung ho! hoo rah!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
94. Welcome to DU.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. Is it an honor that Cheney created a DU account?
Sure sounds like him, doesn't it?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #96
106. His daughter Liz is signed up here, too. She has a post about nuking Iran up
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 11:13 AM by KoKo
...goes along nicely with her Poppy's post here. :eyes:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
97. They hire prostitutes! DEATH TO THEM!
You know, I was all against invading North Korea until I read your blurb about them hiring prostitutes. That seals the deal for me. Fuck the millions of South Koreans in Seoul who might die. Who cares about the tens of thousands of American troops who might be killed in an initial North Korean attack, and the thousands of American troops who would die afterwards?

If Kim Jong Il is paying to have sex, then INVADE NOW, what are we waiting for?

:sarcasm:
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #97
115. Kill them all and take their kimchee!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #97
116. Don't be a player hater
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
99. We need to prevent them from harming their neighbors in the cheapest possible way.
Invasion is not the cheapest possible way.

I could be convinced that either of two possible solutions are best;
a) humanitarian aid delivered in such a way as to marginalize the Il government and support reformers, or
b) complete blockade of all trade, including humanitarian.

In the latter case, North Koreans will die, just like in an invasion.

Nothing can be done without China's participation.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #99
117. If you do plan b, they will take it as a provocation
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #117
126. Provocation isn't always bad.
I don't want to go too far down the historical example road because it always ends up in stupidland.

Suffice to say that I think we discount the risk posed by NK at our peril, but I'm not ready to discuss invasion yet.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
107. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't have any teenage children.
I have two teenage sons and I'd just as soon not see them fed into a meat grinder. But by all means, do feel free to pick up a weapon yourself and head over there to kick a little North Korean ass.
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
108. god, i've been telling my congressman this for YEARS!
time for a good ol' amurican ASS WHOOOPIN'!! after all, it's worked out so wonderfully in Iraq!
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cyborg1966 Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
109. It would be a bloodbath
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 12:00 PM by cyborg1966
I served in the Air Force/Air National Guard. Thank God, I was never deployed to Korea. Osan AB is a stone's throw from the DMZ. They would be on the front lines, and they would fight, but unfortunately one thing that nutcase Kim has is sheer numbers. His hardware is outdated (mostly 20+ year old Soviet MiG-21's that he has trouble getting spare parts for), and US and South Korean F-16's and F-5's would hack them out of the sky, but he has millions of ground troops that would overwhelm US and South Korean troops. They may be riding in 30 year old Soviet tin cans, but when you have so many of them...

My ex-brother-in-law was stationed on the DMZ at a listening post, looking into North Korea. From what he said, it was the most frightening posting he'd ever had, and that included West Germany near the East German border.

Kim Jong Il is quite possibly certifiably loony. As long as he (and his family) is in power, all this kind of bluster will keep on, and it won't matter what kind of sense President Obama or Secretary Hillary Clinton try to talk to him. He gets his way by bluster and bullshit.

Unfortunately, due to the ultra-secure nature of NK (try doing a Google Earth on it), and the fact that what little money Kim has he pumps into the military (why do you think NK citizens are in such bad shape?), taking him out will be far harder than taking out Saddam Hussein. It would be more like going into Berlin to take out Hitler.

If Kim really would be fool enough to try and lob one of his primitive nukes at Japan, there's no way the Japanese would just sit on their hands. Their armed forces are purely defensive, but that would be an act of war, and they will fight. They're good, and they have very good equipment (mostly U.S. but some indigenous).

If South Korea, the ROK forces are quite competent and of course we would fight with them. We also have alliances with very militarily-good nations in SWPA like Australia and New Zealand, and they will fight, using the best British training and U.S. equipment they have.

But I don't want us to strike first. We've seen where that's got us.
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #109
125. I have a funny feeling China might even be on our side.
The Bejing government is sick of North Korea's nuclear ambitions.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
112. Nuts.
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
114. China and Russia have more than enough resources and troops to handle NK if it comes to that.
They are also neighbors and face the biggest threat from any short range weapons NK may have.

They are also not engaged in two wars already.

The U.S. should not have to solve every problem or threat in the world. Others, like Russia and China in this case, need to do their fair share.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
118. let Palin do it.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. She can see Pyongyang from her house
n/t
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
119. About 90% of all casualties in war are civilians.
Just pointing that out, since you seem to care about "ignoring the plight of the people."

Nothing says caring like an invasion, eh?
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
121. Did you first realize we should invade N. Korea during the physical act of love?
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
123. I tend to agree. We have a real threat to world peace and stability in NKorea.
We'd have to get China on-board with it, and that won't be easy.

A war with China (again) would be disaster.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
130. When are you signing up?
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
131. The joys of posting one's wet dreams on a message board
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #131
132. They aren't "Trolls" anymore...they are PAID OP'S? n/t
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
133. Only fools rush in, as we all know far better than we wish we did...
I hope there is a lot of intelligence gathering going on. Beyond that, no one here on DU has the wherewithal to make such a statement. We do not have all the information, and it could very well be we won't for some time.

Despite the horrific lack of transparency in the Bush administration, and the rampant hate for same generated by that administration, I feel there is still good cause to keep a few things under wraps until things can be sized out, or even acted upon and resolved in some cases.

Thanks to those of us who came out en mass to vote for Obama, I'm a lot more comfortable about that than I have been for the past 8 years.

That may change, but for now, I'm good.
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AlexanderProgressive Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
134. I'm not looking forward to being slaughtered in a war n/t
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