Who is with me? Iran's coup is against Amedinijah not

[Sebass1271]

Mousavi. I have a feeling that the supposedly "cruel" "crazy" "lunatic" guy is not that crazy after all and all we want (U.S.) is take over his country and squeeze their natural resources for our own egotistical gain.

Who watched Letters to the President this weekend on HBO?

[EFerrari]

1. I think it's even money.

:shrug:

[Sebass1271]

3. yeap..

everyone on DU should watch this documentary. It shows the wide spread of support amongst the poor for amahdhenaj (sp)? the wealthy, intellectuals and young was for the Mousavi. However, Iran is a very poor country. I don't know, I have doubts now. I think the people Iran really voted for this guy.

[CreekDog]

4. why do you think that?

you also think that Mousavi lost his home region where he had so much support in polls beforehand?

also is it possible that you suffer an American stereotype of assuming a country in Iran is mostly poor except for some rich people in the cities and that's why you believe (with little evidence) that an election without transparency and with irregularities is in fact a fair reflection of what people want?

[Sebass1271]

8. Good valid questions you have but

who said he had wide support in his home region? Al Gore lost to his home state. I am not stereotyping. I have valid doubts about this outpouring of "evidence" that he cheated. We have now McCrazy on TV and all right wing pundits saying the U.S. must do something to stop election fraud in Iran. It is like if they had all of this planned and take this guy out against all costs. Admadhinejah don't want to be controlled by the west.

[CreekDog]

12. are you holding your views to consistent standards?

you think Ahmadinijad probably won, but you doubt that Mousavi won his home region.

which means you don't believe the polls before the election.

which means that you aren't aware of or don't know about Mousavi's widely reported, strong support from that region.

which also means that you have believed, uncritically, Ahmadinijad's statements and reported election results and none of the criticism of them.

no, i don't think you are applying your standards for what you believe and doubt equally. no way.

[AnnInLa]

17. Seabass....this report from the Asia Times

both agrees and disagrees with your supposition:

"The polls closed at 10pm on Friday, Tehran time. Most main streets then were fully decked out in green. In an absolutely crucial development, the great Iranian film director Mohsen Makhmalbaf told Radio Farda how Mousavi's main campaign office in Tehran received a phone call on Saturday at 1am; the Interior Ministry was saying "Don't announce Mr Mousavi's victory yet ... We will gradually prepare the public and then you can proceed." Iranian bloggers broke down the vote at the time as 19.7 million for Mousavi, between 7 and 8 million for Ahmadinejad, 7 million for Karroubi, and 3 million for Rezai.

Then all hell seemed to break loose. Phones, SMS, text messaging, YouTube, political blogs, opposition websites, foreign media websites, all communication networks, in a cascade, were shutting down fast. Military and police forces started to take over Tehran's streets. The Ahmadinejad-controlled Ministry of Interior - doubling as election headquarters - was isolated by concrete barriers. Iranian TV switched to old Iron Curtain-style "messages of national unity". And the mind-boggling semi-final numbers of Ahmadinejad's landslide were announced (Ahmadinejad 64%, Mousavi 32%, Rezai 2% and Karroubi less than 1%).

The fact that the electoral commission had less than three hours to hand-count 81% of 39 million votes is positively a "divine assessment".

The official breakdown of the vote had Ahmadinejad taking Tehran by over 50%. He may be popular in the rural provinces and in parts of working-class south Tehran, but not even "divine assessment" could be expected to give him more than 30% in the capital.

Ahmadinejad won in the big city of Tabriz. Tabriz is in Azerbaijan. Mousavi is Azeri. Azeris are an ultra-tight ethnic group, they vote for one of their own. The notion that Mousavi was beaten, four to one, in his home ground borders on fiction.

Karroubi had less than half of Ahmadinejad's vote and came in a distant second in his own hometown of Oligudarz. Karroubi not only didn't win in his home province of Lorestan, he had less votes than volunteers helping in his campaign. The first numbers on election night came from rural villages and small towns voting Ahmadinejad. Something immediately seemed to be way off when less than 1% of voters in western Iran went for Karroubi, very popular not only in his native Lorestan but also in Kurdistan.

As for Rezai, from Khuzestan, where most of Iran's oilfields are, he expected 2 million votes in his province alone. He polled less than a million nationwide. Everywhere, all over the country, Ahmadinejad got between a steady 66% and 69%, no matter the region, no matter the predominant ethnic group, no matter the demographics.

By law, the Electoral Commission must wait three days before certifying the results. Then they inform Khamenei and he gives his seal of approval. This is to prevent any "irregularities". This time, Khamenei approved the official results in less than four hours."

more at http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KF16Ak03.html




So, yes, Ahmadinejad could have actually won the popular vote, but he didn't win it with the vote % they said. He did not want to have a "run off" with Mousavi, who was gaining ground every day with his green revolution, so they reported a resounding win for Ahmadinejad....so resounding it was impossible. Both Mousavi and Ahmadinejad may be devils incarnate, but when people vote, their votes need to be counted fairly and accurately....whether in Iran, the US, or Kingfuckistan.

[EFerrari]

13. I've done a 180 myself and should remain agnostic.

We have no way to verify the vote. And I, too, am not trusting the sudden dedication to clean elections among our Republicans and corporate media. :shrug:

[CreekDog]

6. i don't even recognize you anymore

:(

[EFerrari]

11. The thing is, CreekDog, there are vampires preying on Iran right now.

I'm not cynical about the Iranian people who want clean elections. But it's highly unlikely that all the entities that want to exploit Iran will just sit back and allow that to happen unimpeded. So, I'm not criticizing these kids but rather, mindful of their context right now. With Iraq fragile and Afghanistan such a mess, Iran has quite a bit of power in the region. And today, some of that is up for grabs.

When one of these entities goes in to manipulate elections, they always go for the kids first. They help them with money for their various groups. With flyers and signs and flags and even, a oolor for their cause, right? It's all about democracy and freedom. And it's manipulation, regardless.

The Saudis have been backing the challenger. Who knows how much $$$ they've spent. Our own domestic vampires would probably like to keep Ahmadinejad because he's a great foil -- unless they think they can get better deals from the other guy. It's a dangerous moment.

[CreekDog]

15. Somoza had widespread support too right?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

16. And that's why for me it's not about the individuals or even

so much about this bad election that everyone is so outraged about. (And it is a bad election because no matter who won, there is no transparency.) Iran is today vulnerable and that's cause for concern.

Whoever among the globalists prevails, their manipulations will be done in the name of democracy just as it always is. I only hope that all those people we see at these rallies get some part of what they are hoping for.

[CreekDog]

2. The coup is on behalf of Ahmadinijad and for him

someone who takes or maintains power illegitimately is the one fomenting a coup.

[Sebass1271]

5. see here

http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_DETAIL=DETAIL&FOCUS_ID=703029

[CreekDog]

7. so?

[Sebass1271]

10. So, i think it's all propaganda by the MSM and right wing.

I don't know!. I am just very doubtful.

[CreekDog]

21. but you are only doubtful about SOME things you are hearing

that's what i'm trying to point out to you.

you are not very doubtful at the election results.

you are very doubtful about the protests and criticism of the election itself.

shouldn't you have the same standard for evaluating what you hear, regardless? these reports are coming through the same media outlets and in fact, the protests are coming from other outlets beyond mainstream ones.

[conscious evolution]

9. would not surprise me

When shit hits fans in 'axis of evil'countries the first thing that pops to mind is who benefits.

[EFerrari]

14. And especially Iran because of it's location. They put their country

in the middle of our oil fields.

[conscious evolution]

18. Can you say

PNAC?

[EFerrari]

20. I bet I can. I'm getting a lot of flak for piping up about outside influences

likely at work in Iran right now. Whatever. Iran is a jewel loose on the table. The list of hands ready to snatch it up is probably longer than I even know.

[lxlxlxl]

19. Hmmm...I can understand why you think that way

but what you are reifying is the idea of infinite american influence, which i no longer believe in.

first, replacing ahmenijad, doesnt really address the problem of the supreme leader's control

two, neocons in this country do not want a moderate iran. they want a holocaust denier to represent the country

third, its unlikely that mousavi is a cia stooge, or an american ally, look at this past.

im all for skepticism, and I bet the fact that so much of god knows that there was a time when the US could pull off anything with a suitcase of cash. I think those days are over now.