This whole Letterman thing is about him taking ratings away from Conan's first week on Tonight Show

[cagesoulman]

That's all this was about.

Letterman is a fucking jerk when he feels like he's being challenged in his late night slot. Back when NBC picked Leno, some 17 years ago, Dave made such a big stink and created such drama that it took Jay Leno some time to regain some of Johnny Carson's audience. (Thank God for Hugh Grant.) Jay then went on to dominate Letterman for years and years.

Now, 17 years later, Letterman and his ego are threatened again, this time by Conan O'Brian, who unlike Leno can pull some of the young edgy crowd away from Letterman while, hopefully, keeping the Jay audience he inherited. Conan is also known for hosting the Emmys. So that asswipe Letterman decides to create a media stunt. He tells a tasteless joke about a well-known person and her daughter, knowing that there will be some fallout. (His research team knew which daughter it was at the baseball game. Hell, even I knew it was the younger daughter, and I don't give a shit.)

So, the media craziness starts and Letterman gets loads of publicity in Conan's first week, short circuiting Conan and his big (expensive) roster of guests. Now, the asshole is into week two of this, finally apologizing but still making fun of all of it with the pre-show announcement and, I heard, a top 10 list related to the protest against him. For a 62-year-old left-wing passe comedian who wants to keep his audience and still appear "edgy" (an edgy fucking geezer), the negative attention from the right wing, including the lame 15-person demonstration today, just gave him a ton of free press to promote his show among the left and the edgy, young crowd.

Letterman, you're a douche, an asswipe, an egotistical piece of excrement.

But for you all on DU, stop this unmitigated shit about "the feud." The thing with Palin was manufactured by Letterman to get exactly the response it did so he could cream Conan in his first week or so. It's pure competition and marketing.

It doesn't really matter. So don't play into the fucking thing, leave it be. Just realize you, the Palins, the media, and the late night audience got played.

[liberal N proud]

1. It's about Palin keeping herself in the news

It's about American not forgetting we ever heard of her.

She intends to stay in the political arena and this is the only way she can do it.

[cagesoulman]

26. Precisely why Letterman picked her for this. He knew she'd take the bait.

She freakin can't help herself.

[EFerrari]

2. Bitter, party of one!

[cagesoulman]

34. We got played.

Deal with it.

[EFerrari]

56. Maybe you got played. You deal with it.

[pnwmom]

3. Geezer? Passe? As opposed to the "young edgy crowd." Spoken like an ageist. n/t

[Dennis Donovan]

4. Conan's Mom, is that you?

:eyes:

[Madam Mossfern]

5. Geezer?

Damn, I don't think I can respect that or anything else you write.
Just at what age does one enter 'geezerhood'?.............18?

[armyowalgreens]

7. I'm 19. Anyone over 30 is a geezer...

:evilgrin:

[armyowalgreens]

6. Who's really getting "played" here?

:crazy:

[Chipper Chat]

8. Couldn't disagree with you more.

Letterman isn't sinister or plotting. He just got "palined" here. And I don't blame him for exploiting the "Fire Dave" agenda.

[saltpoint]

9. Michelangelo and Georgia O'Keeffe lived to be 99.

"Geezers" ?

Somehow I doubt that the Palins were complicit in a ratings strategy for CBS late-night television. I don't know as a fact that they were not, but it seems unlikely. Half of them can barely use complete sentences.

[cagesoulman]

35. BUt neither of them had a TV show that relies on pushing the envelope with a late night audience

Even Johnny Carson left before he started drooling.

[saltpoint]

80. I see no drooling on the late-night circuit. Age happens, dude. Letterman

remains at the top of his game. He's smart and he can hit hard when he wants.

You've missed the boat.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomreedtoon]

12. Well, Letterman IS a jerk. So are Kimmel, Leno and O'Brien.

They are jerks without Johnny Carson's clever self-effacing "aw shucks" attitude. They are fratboys who would set cats on fire if given half a chance. None of them are worth watching. Get sleep instead, or watch a movie or a DVD.

This is from someone who until recently worked at a TV station and had to watch Kimmel again, and again, and again...so I know whereof I speak.

[saltpoint]

13. Regarding Letterman. Some of us have followed him since his days as

a weather man in Indiana.

Your assessment is wrong.

[tomreedtoon]

21. Well, I've seen him since his NBC daytime show.

Nothing I've ever seen him do has convinced me that he isn't a smug little fratboy. And his history during the "Carson Succession Wars" showed a cold, calculating, angry and very unfunny side to Letterman.

Perhaps you think this is a defense of Palin. It isn't. She should be given the classic treatment given to the aged grandmother in Nanoook of the North, where the unwanted person is set outside the igloo so the polar bears can eat her.

Hating Palin doesn't mean you must love an egotistical jerk like Letterman.

[saltpoint]

22. We disagree.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

29. Conan is not right-wing. Leno, on the other hand, is. n/t

[cagesoulman]

39. Leno's gone, dude. Check your watch.

It's all about Conan now. And drama queen Dave just decided to destroy another guy's ratings like he did way back when.

[Ian David]

43. Leno's going to get an earlier time slot that will compete with the local evening news.

Pay attention.

[pot luck]

58. It's not Letterman's job to help his rival's ratings.

I don't see how Letterman trying to beat his competition is something sinister. That's how television works. You try to draw the largest audience possible, and if that means drawing away you're rival's viewers, then so be it.

[Wind Dancer]

11. You are joking, right?

If not, I actually feel sorry for you.

[LeftyMom]

14. Wow, you're awfully mad about stupid late night television.

Might want to see somebody about that. :popcorn:

[baldguy]

15. He told a tasteless joke about a well-known grifter & hypocrite

who made herself & her family a target.

PALIN IS THE ONE who manufactured the "controversy" over it. PALIN IS THE ONE kept it in the news. PALIN IS THE ONE who refused to accept his apology. PALIN IS THE ONE who refused to confront him on his show. And PALIN IS THE ONE who twisted the meaning of Letterman's joke & IS THE ONE who made accusations of non-existent crimes.

Who got played was YOU & PEOPLE LIKE YOU: dumbasses who'll go wherever Palin leads.

[RetroLounge]

16. "you're a douche, an asswipe, an egotistical piece of excrement"

RL

[shadowknows69]

17. If this was for cheap publicity Letterman would have milked it

And not apologized in such a genuine way. Palin is the PR hound in this case. She made an apology acceptance into a stump speech FFS. Letterman was just renewed until 2012. I love Conan but I don't think Dave's career is in danger anytime soon.

[robcon]

18. This was all about a mistake by Letterman. Nothing to do with Palin.

If he had made a real apology for the tasteless joke, instead of non-apology apology, it would have been over in one news cycle.

It's finally over, now that he's made a real apology.

[verges]

85. Even though

no apology was necessary. Leno made almost the same joke during the campaign (sub Edwards for A-rod), Conan made a similar joke and SNL accused Todd of incest. Where was Palin's indignation then? The very next week after SNL's "attack" Sarah guested on the show. Why was Dave forced apologize when the others were ignored?

[robcon]

92. one reason: under age

n/t

[verges]

94. Bristol is 18. And the joke was about her.

But you knew that already.

[robcon]

95. except that it was (unintentionally) about a 14-year old

which Letterman has apologized for. But you already knew that.

[EOTE]

19. The fact that you're a Leno fan tells me everything I need to know about you.

Lemme guess, you're a huge fan of O.J. Simpson/Judge Ito jokes and a good Monica zing never gets old, does it? And there's never a bad time for a fart joke, is there? It's amazing, with all those writers, the only thing Leno needs to worry about is getting his timing right and he can't even do that.

[monmouth]

20. In the meantime, Letterman's ratings soar! Go Dave...n/t

[Gidney N Cloyd]

23. So what was Letterman's backup plan if Palin didn't take the bait?

And by the way, "edgy" is not the exclusive domain of the young.
Name me a young comedian who could touch George Carlin in the last year of his life.

[cagesoulman]

25. Letterman is no George Carlin. And Letterman would have picked another beehive to poke

but he knew he was picking the right one.

[verges]

86. huh?

"And Letterman would have picked another beehive to poke but he knew he was picking the right one."

This sentence makes no sense to me. Type slowly please.

[Annces]

24. Conan will pull ahead eventually

You can't stop that with a stunt. I think you are right though, that these guys will go to any length to stay on top. I don't think either one of them is very funny. Conan has more interesting guests sometimes (when I used to watch him).

[cagesoulman]

30. I ended up watching Jimmy Kimmel last night.

He also "apologized" on air. Funny stuff. He had Ty Pennington's junk being attacked by a goose in Britain.

[WI_DEM]

28. Palin created this controversy. Conan's a big boy.

[cagesoulman]

33. Clearly Palin is not a fan of Conan either

If so, she would have waited to "defend her daughter" until after Conan's first week was finished.

Uh

:sarcasm:

[lpbk2713]

31. Dave and Conan are friends. And Dave could GAF about ratings.

Come back when you you know WTF you're talking about.

[cagesoulman]

32. There are no "friends" once you're competing for ratings. Letterman proved this in the past

when Leno took over the tonight show. He didn't just move peacefully to CBS. He bitched and moaned and complained that Jay's new position should have been his and then stormed out of NBC. Fucking drama queen.

[StrongBad]

36. I prefer Conan but Letterman was just doing his thang.

He's a comedian. He tells jokes for a living everyday. I would guess that he didn't even write this joke as his writing staff probably has that responsibility.

Looking into things any further than that is a mistake.

[cagesoulman]

37. Conan rocks.

But nobody beats Stephen Colbert. Nobody.

[Akoto]

38. Letterman apologized twice. Whether he owed even one was debatable.

I've watched Letterman for years, and I would never describe him as tasteful. That's his thing, and anyone surprised by it must be new to the program. He tells all sorts of jokes about public figures (yes, Bristol Palin is a public figure), the majority of them abrasive at best.

Sarah Palin eats this stuff up. She's back on the air again, after all, once again thanks to her prop children! If you want to label someone as being despicable, it's her, particularly after she implied that Letterman couldn't be trusted to be alone with kids.

In the end, Letterman owned up to it being a bad joke, and he apologized for a second time. Hopefully, that will be the end of this, so that we can focus upon things that'll actually matter over the next few years.

[cagesoulman]

44. I don't give a crap about the jokes or the apologies or any of the media circus.

Have you seen me on the Letterman threads saying the guy should apologize? Hell fucking NO!

Why not? Because this isn't about what was said, it is about why it was said and who the true target really was. The Palins were just collateral crap.

[CitizenPatriot]

40. I know

damn that Letterman. It's amazing how he got Palin to lie about the age of her daughter, pretend her daughter was at a game she wasn't at, misunderstand on purpose his joke, take the bait, and make over the top accusations re pedophilia!

Letterman is so powerful, it skwares me.

He can make Palin dance even harder than Couric.

Maybe we should have a Palin-off, where we see which beloved American icon can make Palin look like a bigger moron, simply by doing what they do every day with every other politician in the country.

Woo Hoo, I'm game!

[DS1]

41. No, it's about Palin finding another reason to be on TV

And nothing more

[cagesoulman]

45. So Palin sent the jokes into Dave and said, "Here, get me on TV" (Yeah right)

I agree that Palin did seize the opportunity those stupid jokes gave her but Dave knew that she would. He knew he could count on her to help him ruin Conan's first week.

[DS1]

46. No, that's just being fucking idiotic.

[cagesoulman]

48. So stop being fucking idiotic.

Dave knew what he was doing. He poked a beehive, provoked a fight, and everyone else forgot about the new guy.

[verges]

88. Believe it or not...

there is not a sinister plot behind every rock and around every corner. Sometimes events just happen.

[RoyGBiv]

42. The Palins got played?

Concerned about them, are you?

[cagesoulman]

47. Who the fuck said anything about concern? I said in the OP that I didn't give a shit.

Yeah, they got played, we all got played. It's like a little psych experiement in some asshole professor's lab.

[RoyGBiv]

49. You're so unconcerned ...

You wrote a lengthy post about it and have been moved to expelling streams of profanity.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RoyGBiv]

81. Yet you don't give a shit ...

Well something certainly has you worked up to come in here and insult pretty much everyone with the kind of energy usually associated with crusades.

Why is this so important to you?

[melman]

50. This theory of yours is

Unbelievably stupid

[Catherine Vincent]

51. LOL!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[melman]

64. Thanks

for the welcome,Catherine Vincent and Fozzledick! Believe it or not,I registered this Letterman related name back on election night when I thought I might not be able to read the forum unregistered.Funny that this was the thing that compelled me to finally post.

[rufus dog]

55. I just love that Conan guy!

That little string/hip dance never gets old. Him making faces like a lizard, OMG I roll on the floor laughing, and the way he claps his hands in the middle of a joke causing a complete distraction, pure fucking comedy genius. You are sooo right, he rocks.

[Fozzledick]

60. Welcome to DU melman!

I have to disagree with you though. I think his theory is believably stupid. I have no trouble at all believing someone could be that stupid, but then I've been around here a bit longer.

[konnichi wa]

63. Fucknuttery is the descriptive that I thought of...first.

:evilgrin:

[cagesoulman]

66. It's the way ratings work, melman.

By the fucking way, you only have 2 posts. I get dinged for having only 200 and change.

Asswipe.

[verges]

89. Larry Bud!!!!! nt

[spanone]

52. what utter horseshit.

[Seen the light]

53. I don't hate Dave, but you're exactly right this was all about ratings

And yes, he was very threatened by Conan.

[cagesoulman]

67. Finally.

Thank you. If I could, I'd throw you a beer.

[hiphopnation]

54. what colorful language!

enjoy your stay! ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing!

[rcrush]

57. Its a mutually beneficial feud for Palin and Letterman.

And I'm sure CBS couldn't be happier for all the publicity its getting. And you can tell its working cause of all the threads it spawns.

[DefenseLawyer]

59. Did David Letterman kill your whole family?

Damn. Bitter, party of one, your table's ready.

[konnichi wa]

61. LOL. All those late night guys are despicable idiots.

Conan is one of the dumbest.

[Raskolnik]

62. Did David Letterman beat you up in junior high, or what? n/t

[ShadowLiberal]

68. Conan's losing ratings because he's not as good as Jay, not the Letterman controversy

I say this as someone who watched the first 6 episodes of Conan's tonight show, and was quite bored through most of it.

[ColbertWatcher]

69. LOL! Brilliant satire! +1 Would read again! k+r, n/t

[omega minimo]

70. Dave's smart and funny; Leno's stupid and not; Conan needs time to find his footing.

Conan will be fine -- maybe even grateful for time to get comfortable. I tuned in one of the first night's and he was nervous and the jokes were awful. He'll get there.

The truth is, Letterman should have been next in line in the Allen/Parr/Carson lineage. But Letterman was too smart and yes, edgy.

So they put a dolt in there. Great!! Not threatening.

Leno never dominated. Letterman has Craig Ferguson following his show, kicking ass. Of course two decades later GENBC decided "edgy" won't hurt ratings. Look at Colbert and Stewart for gawdsake -- and Olbermann.

Has it been 17 years? Let's see, Poppy Bush was in office, Gulf War I was in full swing, as was the cleansing and consolidation of megamedia.

Different times.

Conan will be fine.

"Letterman, you're a douche, an asswipe, an egotistical piece of excrement."

And Letterman would probably say, "Backatcha!"

[cagesoulman]

82. Conan's talented.

Leno was good at appealing to middle America. That's a fucking talent considering what a fucked up mess middle America is.

Conan must prevail.

[omega minimo]

91. Agreed

"Leno was good at appealing to middle America. That's a fucking talent considering what a fucked up mess middle America is."

By being stupid and mean. I liked his stand up before the show. Then he just got ugly, in more ways than one.

Conan is very bright and funny. His late night show found its legs eventually. He'll be a great host. :thumbsup:

Can't be worse than Leno. He was unwatchable IMNSHO. :hi:

[ebdarcy]

71. I had no idea Letterman was such a brilliant mastermind.

Thank you for setting me, and the rest of DU, straight. I can't believe we all fell for it. Shame on us.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishwax]

73. lol

:rofl:

:crazy:

[Writer]

74. Hello. This is a post on why you're an idiot.

I write as someone who wrote an entire conference paper on the late night wars of the early 1990's. And if you could encourage yourself to read a book, I highly recommend Bill Carter's "The Late Shift" as a seminal explanation of what happened back in 1992/1993, and why Letterman is now at CBS. But if you prefer the picture version, may I suggest the HBO movie by the same name?

Conventional wisdom within the media industry at the time was that Letterman would replace Carson. No doubt, Letterman had subbed for Carson on several occasions before the premiere of "Late Night with David Letterman," that Letterman hosted for more than a decade - brought to the air by the late NBC Network president Brandon Tartikoff after Letterman's failed - but hysterical - morning show didn't seem appropriate for a morning audience.

Carson had even voiced to Letterman and others within NBC that he expected Letterman to replace him.

ENTER Helen Kushnick, Leno's manager.

Helen Kushnick was the celebrity manager version of Karl Rove. She was aggressive, vindictive, contemptuous and the only reason why Leno hosted the tonight show for more than 15 years. Kushnick worked Tartikoff - charming him until he verbally agreed to consider Leno as Carson's successor. But alas, Tartikoff left for Paramount in 1992, and Warren Littlefield took his place. Littlefield was less receptive to the idea, concerned about the effect such a move would have on Letterman. Kushnick began to take dramatic action, planting a story in the press about how Carson was retiring (before his official announcement) naming Leno as his successor. This angered Leno, but Kushnick lied to him and told him that she wasn't responsible for the story. Her verbal exchanges with Littlefield bordered on hysteria, and at times she even used her young daughter (who was HIV positive following a blood transfusion) as a means to emotionally manipulate and goad Littlefield into changing his mind.

Kushnick was a piece of work.

After NBC named Leno as Carson's successor, Letterman was shocked, and yes, quite upset. He had completely taken the Tonight Show for granted. Peter Lassally, Carson's producer, Carson, and others counselled Letterman - because they, too, were shocked. Eventually Letterman turned to CAA representative Michael Ovitz, who began to shop Letterman's show (then produced by Carson Productions) to another network. Letterman had never considered entertaining being on any other network but NBC, because at that time - if you're old enough to remember - the only network with a strong late night product was NBC (and ABC with Nightline). Howard Stringer, then the President of CBS Television, saw his chance and made his move with Letterman's history-making deal.

After NBC met to consider enticing Letterman back to their network, they finally decided to keep Leno, cementing Letterman's deal with CBS. Kushnick became Leno's executive producer, and in that role she was a mean-spirited angry witch with a vindictive streak. Seeing Letterman as the new enemy, she refused to book guests that had just recently appeared on Letterman's show, and even went so far as to cancel music performers from specific music labels who allowed their artists to appear on Letterman - that is, until one label manager called the LA Times and exposed her despicable behavior. Leno eventually discovered that Kushnick lied to him about the Carson retirement article from earlier, destroying a long friendship and partnership, and NBC decided to fire her. They had to escort her off the Burbank Studio lot, and even had to put up posters warning security in case she attempted to reenter.

So... this is why your post is under-informed and flat-out ridiculous. You obviously know very little about this fiasco, and your overinflated need to castigate someone you frankly don't know, nor have bothered to read about, says more about you than about Letterman. From every source I've read and listened to, Letterman is a fundamentally decent human being, and is the antithesis to the typical "Hollywood" egotist. (His poor performance hosting the Academy Awards is one indication of this.) No, he's not a perfect human being, but he is a cultural icon whose words Palin twisted and manipulated to score political points - using her daughters, no doubt.

Helen Kushnick would be quite proud of her.

[NeedleCast]

75. No.

[Batgirl]

76. If what you say is true, I can't help but wonder if this means that other television entertainers

are also guilty of performing material for the viewing audience, and the entire time they're actually harboring some secret, sinister agenda of increasing their ratings?

:scared:

[cagesoulman]

78. But not everybody turns the nation into a frenzy over ratings for a shriveled, has-been show

Just so he can try and beat a better rival.

CONAN WILL PREVAIL!

[WeDidIt]

77. LIAF

[SoCalDem]

83. Conan?? The grownup's version of Carrot Top?

Eeky to look at, and entirely NOT FUNNY :)

but I'm sure his children love him and so does his Mom..The rest of us? not so much.

I hope he only sublet his NY digs:)

[Kat45]

90. I share your opinion on Conan.

I have never once laughed at anything he's said. I have trouble looking at him as well. And I find him annoying, don't like his personality/persona. I couldn't believe that the Tonight Show was promised to him all those years ago. My reaction: huh?

[SeattleGirl]

84. Wow, who pissed in your Wheaties?

I mean, fuckity, fuck, fuck, fuck (to paraphrase your post).

:eyes:

[nini]

87. Listen here junior

People are going to watch what they want to regardless of all this crap. Even if what you say is true it would only last a week or so and the success of Conan's show will be determined over time.

So, don't get your diapers in a tizzy so us old geezers don't have to teach you a thing or two.

btw: this old geezer has watched Conan every night so much for your fucking theory.

[Apollo11]

93. Your theory makes a lot of sense

It looks like around 99% of folks here on DU totally buy Letterman's original excuse that the "knocked up" joke was "about" Bristol Palin (age 18).

Personally I find it hard to swallow. Why would Bristol Palin go following her mom around New York instead of staying at home with her baby?

Anyone as obsessed with Governor Palin as Letterman is, must have known which daughter was visiting New York with her mom.

The reason Letterman decided to target Governor Palin and her family is obvious. The whole country is obsessed with her.

The right loves her and the rest of us (mostly) believe that she stands for everything that is wrong with the world.

So if Letterman wanted to get some extra attention for himself and his show - he could not have found a more effective way to do it.

But none of this matters to most folks on DU because Palin is one of the bad guys, and Letterman is one of the good guys - period.