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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:17 PM
Original message
*******Hearing beginning now - Health Reform*******
Edited on Wed Jun-24-09 12:18 PM by slipslidingaway
webcast at link

"Panel One: Single-Payer Health Care

Sidney M. Wolfe, M.D., Director, Health Research Group at Public Citizen

Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., Associate Professor of Medicine, Harvard Medical School, Co-Founder, Physicians for a National Health Program

John C. Goodman, Ph.D., President & CEO, National Center for Policy Analysis"


http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1691:energy-and-commerce-committee-and-health-subcommittee-hearing-on-comprehensive-health-reform-discussion-draft&catid=132:subcommittee-on-health&Itemid=72

"Comprehensive Health Reform Discussion Draft, Day 2, Part 2
Hearings - Subcommittee on Health
June 23, 2009
The Energy and Commerce Committee will hold its second day of legislative hearings on the health reform discussion draft on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 in room 2123 Rayburn House Office Building. The Committee has worked with the Ways and Means and Education and Labor Committees to develop a proposal that reflects President Obama's health reform principles."




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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. is this being covered by C-Spin???? seems the non-public option was carried and
played non stop on C-spin...where is this one covered? besides of course from the energy commissions own streaming?
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. You noticed that as well !!! This portion of the hearing is not
being covered by CSpan, they only covered the a.m. portion with Secretary Sebelius.

When a few single-payer advocates are allowed to speak it is not covered.

Same thing happened with the last hearing, not covered on CSpan.

:(

I just verified this with cspan and left a message on their comment line.

:shrug:




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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Just sent them an email - thanks for the prod to contact them
:hi:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thank you! :))) n/t
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. thanks :) n/t
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Congress will decide the best route to
Health Reform be to outsource our health problems to India via internet. We can "see" a doctor through our computers. It is lucky for us there are some fine Indian doctors.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yes there are, but I would rather see a doctor :)) n/t
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. there is ONE guy against the single payer..and he is being asked ALL the questions!!!
fucking assholes!
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I've missed part of it, is that Goodman? nt
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yes Goodman...the guy from I think GA just said he would not ask
Edited on Wed Jun-24-09 12:57 PM by angstlessk
ANY questions of the single payer because his constituents would be mad..what a tool!

on edit..talking about wait times...but does not mention a hip replacement or cataract surgery is NOT AVAILABLE AT ALL TO THE UNINSURED!!
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Thanks, I just heard the guy from Ga. and you are exactly right
about wait times, plus Canada spends about a half that we do on HC and the UK spends about one third per capita.

Dr. Woolhandler - 'I just want to go on record that I do not agree with your statistics'



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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Those idiots are so predictable.
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Is this the day the insurance whistleblower tesitifies?
I forgot his name.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yes...a different hearing though, link...
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you very much for the link
:)
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. YW :) n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. Link to his testimony...
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. They have adjourned for 30 minutes, the Senate HELP committee
hearing will also begin around 2:30.



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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I love the HELP Committee's efforts on this.
$#&@ Baucus and his Finance committee BS. *ptui*
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. They are better, love might be too strong of a word :) n/t
Edited on Wed Jun-24-09 01:44 PM by slipslidingaway
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. Testimony of Sidney M. Wolfe MD
3 pages
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090624/testimony_wolfe.pdf

"What if you picked up the morning paper tomorrow and saw the following headline: “50 People Died Yesterday Because they Lacked Health Insurance”? The next day, the same headline----and the next as well. This is the average number of people in the United States who, according to a 2004 report by the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, die each day---more than 18,000 a year---because they lack health insurance. How should we respond to this unacceptable and embarrassing finding?
Not by saying, as President Obama has said that if we were starting now from scratch, we would have a single-payer, but it's too disruptive or, as the health insurance industry recently said, having the public option would be too “devastating”. What could be more disruptive and devastating than being one of 45+ million people who are uninsured, from whose ranks come 18,000 people who die each year because of this dangerous status?

The real question is why should we tolerate the fragmented, highly profitable, administratively wasting private health insurance industry any longer? In this regard, the public is way ahead of either President Obama or the Congress in its distrust of the health insurance industry.
A recent national Harris Poll (October, 2008) asked the following question: “Which of these industries do you think are generally honest and trustworthy – so that you normally believe a statement by a company in that industry?” Only one out of 14 people (7%) thought that the health insurance industry is honest and trustworthy. The only industries in the survey that were even more distrusted than the health insurance industry were HMO’s (7%), oil (4%) and tobacco (3%).

The Congress, on the other hand, trusts the health insurance industry and feels compelled to come up with a “solution” that avoids a big fight with them, not only writing them into the legislation but assuring further growth of that industry. The Congress wants to believe that the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries will be good citizens and voluntarily lower their prices to save some of the money that is necessary to fund health insurance. Several weeks ago, the collective forces of the health industry promised that they could voluntarily save two trillion dollars over the next 10 years.

But the amount that can be saved over the next ten years by just eliminating the health insurance industry and the $400 billion of excessive administrative costs it causes each year is $4 trillion, in one fell swoop. This would be enough to finance health care for all without the additional revenues the Congress and the Administration is desperately seeking.

As an example of administrative waste, over the last 30 plus years there have been maybe two and a half, three times more doctors and nurses, in proportion with the growth in population. But over the same interval, there are 30 times more health administrators. These people are not doctors. They're not nurses. They're not pharmacists. They're not providing care. Many of them are being paid to deny care. So, they are fighting with the doctors, with the hospitals to see how few bills can be paid. That's how the insurance industry thrives by denying care, paying as little out as it can, getting the healthiest patients.

There is no question that we have a fragmented health insurance industry. And it thrives on being fragmented, avoiding any kind of serious centralized examination or control. The drug companies make much more money with this insurance fragmentation, because there's no price control. The insurance companies make much more money, because they can push away people who aren't going to be profitable, let public programs take care of these patients who are “unprofitable”.

What the President and the Congress are really, realistically advocating----since there is absolutely no possibility of having enough money to cover all people in this country as long as the private, for-profit health insurance industry is allowed to exist ---is more incremental reform, not National Health Insurance. It is now 44 years since Medicare and Medicaid came into existence. In the interim, there have been many experiments in this country and abroad to try to provide universal health coverage.

Other countries have uniformly rejected the private for-profit insurance industry and have adopted National Health Insurance. Is everyone else wrong and only the US is right?

A recent study by the international OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development)1 provided health insurance data from its 30 member countries (Europe, Korea, Japan, Mexico, Canada, the U.S. and others including Australia, New Zealand and Iceland). The latest data from those countries showed that 27 of the 30 had health insurance coverage for more than 96% of the population, with only Germany having any non-public coverage (10.3%). The other three were Mexico with 60.4% covered---all with public coverage, Turkey, with 67.2% covered, also with public coverage and the U.S. with 84.9% covered 57.5%with private and 27.4% with public coverage.
1 OECD Health Working Papers: Measuring Disparities in Health Status and Access and Use of Health Care in OECD Countries. 3/9/09

In Canada, back in 1970, they were spending the same percentage of their gross national product as we were on health. They also had millions of uninsured people and many of the same insurance companies such as Blue Cross, Blue Shield. They decided to just get rid of the health insurance industry. They had experimented with it in Saskatchewan ten years earlier and it had worked so well, they couldn't wait to do it nationally. So, where there's a will, there's a way. There is no way we are ever going to get to having good health insurance for everyone, as long as there's a health insurance industry, in the way, obstructing care.

Other more recent experiments abroad include Taiwan. In 1995, Taiwan had said, we don't like the fact that 40 percent of our people are uninsured. They passed, essentially, single-payer plan and within a few years 90-95 percent of the people were covered.
In the U.S. we have had experiments as well with seven states having instituted various versions of the public/private combination that this legislation seeks to provide. In none of these states has this worked, once several years had elapsed, despite initial enthusiasm and short-lived decreases in the uninsured.

So as we consider what to do, which experiments do we follow? The ones that were successful, all of which, for all practical purposes eliminated the private for-profit insurance industry, or the failed U.S. state examples, all of which were built on this industry?
If instead of saying that a single payer program is not politically possible, the President and the Congress need to say, "It is not only politically possible, politically feasible, but it's the only practical way national health insurance will ever happen. Anything short of that is essentially throwing tens of billions of dollars at the insurance industry. And if you're afraid of the insurance industry, than you're afraid of doing the right thing: Having everybody in, and nobody out of having health insurance."



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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. "Is everyone else wrong and only the US is right?"
Alas, the Insurance Robber Barons and Big Pharma are fanning the flames of this alarming knee-jerk tendency toward exceptionalism among many Americans. "If Europe's got it, there must be something subversive about it."

Of course, the absence of international reporting and unbiased information from abroad only reinforces this dangerous delusion.

Too many Americans don't have a clue of what goes on beyond our borders. They don't know what they're missing. And in many cases, they don't really care.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Exactly and well stated n/t
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. KnR. n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. thanks :) n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. Testimony of Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., M.P.H.
2 pages
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090624/testimony_woolhandler.pdf

"Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee. I’m Steffie Woolhandler. I am a primary care doctor in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and associate professor of medicine at Harvard. I also co-founded Physicians for a National Health Program. Our 16,000 physician members support nonprofit, single-payer national health insurance because of overwhelming evidence that lesser reforms – even with a robust public plan option - will fail.
Private insurance is a defective product. Unfortunately, the Tri-Committee health reform plan would keep private insurers in the driver’s seat, and, indeed, require Americans to buy their shoddy goods. Once failure to buy health insurance is a federal offense, what’s next? A Ford Pinto in every garage? Lead-painted toys for every child? Melamine-laced chow for every puppy?

Even middle-class families with supposedly good coverage are just one serious illness away from financial ruin. My colleagues and I recently found that medical bills and illness contribute to 62 percent of all personal bankruptcies – a 50 percent increase since 2001. Strikingly, three-quarters of the medically bankrupt had insurance – at least when they first got sick.

In case after case, the insurance families bought in good faith failed them when they needed it most. Some were bankrupted by co-payments and deductibles, and loopholes that allowed their insurer to deny coverage. Others got too sick to work, leaving them unemployed and uninsured. And insurance regulations like those proposed in the tri-committee bill cannot fix these problems.

We in Massachusetts have seen in action a plan like the one you’re considering. In my state, beating your wife, communicating a terrorist threat and being uninsured all carry $1,000 fines. Yet despite these steep fines, most of the new coverage in our state has come from expanding Medicaid-like programs at great public expense. According to the state’s disclosure to its bondholders, our health reform has cost about $5,000 annually for each newly insured adult. That’s equivalent to over $200 billion annually to cover all of America’s uninsured.

But even such vast expenditures haven’t made care affordable for middle-class families in Massachusetts. If I were to lose my Harvard coverage I’d be forced to lay out $4,800 for a policy with a $2,000 deductible before it pays for any care, and 20 percent co-payments after that. Skimpy, overpriced coverage like this left 1 in 6 Massachusetts residents unable to pay their medical bills last year.

Meanwhile, rising costs have forced the Legislature to rob Peter in order to pay Paul. Funding cuts have decimated safety-net hospitals and clinics, and the current budget drops coverage for 28,000 people.

As research I published in the New England Journal of Medicine showed, a single-payer reform could save about $400 billion annually by shrinking health care bureaucracy – enough to cover the uninsured and to provide first dollar coverage for all Americans. A single-payer system would also include effective cost-containment mechanisms like bulk purchasing and global budgeting. As a result, everyone would be covered with no net increase in U.S. health spending. But these savings aren’t available unless we go all the way to single payer.
Adding a public insurance plan option can’t fix the flaws in Massachusetts-style reform. A public plan might cut private insurers’ profits, which is why they hate it. But their profits account for only about 3 percent of the money squandered on bureaucracy. Far more goes for marketing (to attract healthy, profitable members) and demarketing (to avoid the sick). And tens of billions are spent on the armies of insurance administrators who fight over payment and their counterparts at hospitals and doctors offices. All of these would be retained with a public plan option.

And overhead for even the most efficient competitive public plan would be far higher than Medicare’s, which automatically enrolls seniors when they turn 65 and disenrolls them only at death, deducts premiums directly from Social Security checks, and does no marketing.

Unfortunately, competition in health insurance involves a race to the bottom, not the top. Insurers compete by NOT paying for care: by denying payment and shifting costs onto patients or other payers. These bad behaviors confer a decisive competitive advantage. A public plan option would either emulate them – becoming a clone of private insurance – or go under. A kinder, gentler public plan option would quickly fail in the marketplace, saddled with the sickest, most expensive patients, whose high costs would drive premiums to uncompetitive levels.

In contrast, a single-payer reform would radically simplify the payment system and redirect the vast savings to care. Hospitals could be paid like a fire department, receiving a single monthly check for their entire budget, eliminating most billing. Physicians’ billing could be similarly simplified.

Eight decades of experience teach that private insurers cannot control costs or provide families with the coverage they need. A government-run clone of private insurers cannot fix these flaws. Only single payer national health insurance can assure all Americans the care they need at a price they can afford.

Thank you."


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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Wonderful testimony
"Unfortunately, competition in health insurance involves a race to the bottom, not the top. Insurers compete by NOT paying for care: by denying payment and shifting costs onto patients or other payers. These bad behaviors confer a decisive competitive advantage. A public plan option would either emulate them – becoming a clone of private insurance – or go under. A kinder, gentler public plan option would quickly fail in the marketplace, saddled with the sickest, most expensive patients, whose high costs would drive premiums to uncompetitive levels."



I just can't understand why people pushing for a public option don't get this. Or perhaps they do.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I do not understand it either, also pushing for a public option when
we do not know what it will be, how much it will cost and how it will be financing is baffling.

:shrug:

Make sure to read the statement by Dr. Wolfe posted above as well.

Switched to the Senate hearing while the House still votes and cost is a big concern.



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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. Senate HELP hearing link, this is being covered on C-Span...
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. The Committee has finally returned! n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. Jan Schakowsky doing a great job! n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Getting to the statistics put forth by Goodman etc. n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. Republicans and many Democrats just ignore the single-payer
witnesses, they might as well be Kucinich during the Presidential debates.

If you challenge the system, then you are ignored.

:(



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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. But why?
It seems that every excuse and explanation for this always circles back to the simplest one:

Because they depend on money from insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

If they claim there are responding to the sentiments of their constituents (dubious, unless those constituents are the aforementioned corporations that profit off of illness), where are their constituents getting their information?

From the Corporate Media, most likely. And who provides a major part of the revenue for the Corporate Media?

Once again, all routes lead back to insurance and pharmaceutical corporations.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I agree and also they do not want to be seen as bucking the
trend...they want to remain part of the IN crowd.

My belief is that policy is set from the top and not many are willing to stray too far from that policy. If someone at the top challenged the corporations then the members would feel willing to do so as well.

Imagine if P. Obama had called upon Dr. Maria Angell to speak at the WH summit instead of Karen Ignagni, members of Congress might be pleading for a public option.

:crazy:


Of course Dr. Angell was not even invited to attend, although Conyers had asked that she be included.

Examining the Single Payer Health Care Option: Marcia Angell Testimony
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=323207&mesg_id=323207
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQNphM6xUsE


Invited to the WH summit and called upon by the President.

AHIP Takes Part in President Obama's Health Care Forum on March 5th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gTFzG7Kaa4



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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. Too many missing Democrats, this is the third or fourth Republican
in a row asking questions.

:(

Members, the only two who asked questions in the afternoon session were Jan Schakowsky and Jim Matheson
http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1571&catid=160&Itemid=61


Next panel being called.



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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
38. kick for the evening crowd, written testimonies are at the link
in the OP.

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