Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Christian Right: Health care reform is bad because our health care system was planned by God

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 05:49 AM
Original message
Christian Right: Health care reform is bad because our health care system was planned by God
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 05:51 AM by ck4829
Minnesota Independent: The religious right is ramping up its campaign against health care reform, even joining with the “tea party” movement to encourage conservative Christians to swamp town hall meetings. Minnesota’s religious right leaders say that the health care reform package is against God’s plan for health care and that Christians should go to community forums and “read them the riot act.”

http://rightwingwatch.org/content/right-wing-round-110
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Religion has been used to distort medical decisions by
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 06:15 AM by no_hypocrisy
1. a ban on contraception and abortion (God's will that a child be born)

2. discouraging anesthetics during childbirth ("Thou shalt bear thy children in sorrow")

3. allowing women to die in childbirth or choosing a newborn's life over the mother's when only one life could be salvaged (God's will again)

4. a child dying (God's will again)

5. a cancer patient screaming for death due to the pain (God's will again)

etc. etc. etc.

These people can opt out due to their religion as far as I'm concerned but as soon as another party is involved, all bets are off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yet at the first sign of them not being able to get something the from their health care
providers ( wink wink )are the biggest whiners out there. Knew one such nut job who was all upset that medicaid paid for birth control for the poor because her insurance from her job refused to provide BC. Then in the next breath she whined that the poor were having to many kids, she wants a law that only people who can afford kids can breed. You know personal responsibility, never mind such little facts as her kids each have a different father while she was on welfare, (she has 5 kids ). But thats ok cause now she found jebus, has a wonderful hubby, ( who moved out of state 2 years ago to find work, wink wink ) none of that matters now that she has god and a job, the past is the past. These are the kind of folks we are dealing with, they have a complete disconnect from what they say or think and what they do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. "That's socialism! Now where's my unemployment check?"
Morons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. God's will?
Sounds more like god swill to me. Swill that even the hungriest hog would turn down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Then "9/11" was God's will and we should not have a "War on Terror"!
God must then oppose our "military - industrial complex" because Al Qaeda hit the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, not Hollywood, Las Vegas, or San Francisco?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm starting to see a larger picture.
It's not getting these people to disrupt and stop the healthcare reform debate. It's more.

If they're successful, these people still have inadequate or substandard health insurance. They lose money. They lose their jobs. They lose their houses.

And whose fault will that be in their minds? Obama because he didn't "fix it". Never mind their contribution. Obama was supposed to fix it but he didn't.

And channeling that anger helps in 2010 and 2012. Why wait and let things get better while the democrats are in power?

This is larger than the insurance and pharmaceutical companies and doctors and hospitals "protecting" their profits and existence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GodlyDemocrat Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. The false Christians are at it again
Before I go to church today, I pray that these individuals give up their idols. You can't serve money and God at the same time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm not religious, so I have to ask a sincere question:
How does something so simple get so easily twisted? The progressives I know who are religious don't engage in the mental gymnastics that those on the right have to do, in order to express their beliefs in a religious context. How do these people become so easily manipulated by the Elmer Gantrys of the world, when the simple message of "do unto others" seems that it would be most appealing to the simple minded?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrcheerful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. Very easy to do when everything you hear and believe were cherry picked
to match your bigoted mindset. Religion has had 2000 years to hone and direct their message of don't question the church because you are questioning god.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. I've actually heard "When God (or Jesus) created the United States...
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 06:16 PM by DCKit
he (they) didn't intend for our government to interfere with capitalism." Seriously.

If I had their talent for extrapolation/reinterpretation, I could read Mother Goose and come up with the unifying theory of EVERYTHING. However, I've always been suspicious that the universe will end the second someone figures it all out, so I stopped reading and will be registering Republican shortly.

Kidding - but only about reading and registering Republic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GodlyDemocrat Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
31. 90% percent of the New Testament is about charity
The Christian Right have butchered the Bible to deny the teachings of God on charity and willingness to pay your taxes (Give unto Caeser's what is Caeser's). Charity is both a private and public endeavor.

But there are so many false churches that refuse to obey Christ's commands for charity.

There was one church where the members dressed up for Haloween as the homeless wearing a sign saying, "I need 5 cents for a happy meal." All the while creepily commenting on how "slutty" the girls were dressing up for Haloween. I don't know what they are, but they're not Christian.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Funny how so few of em apparently don't fear Hell at all (per their "values")
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. It goes with the Calvinism.
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 02:02 PM by juno jones
They all suppose they are predestined to be the elect so it doesn't count as sin. Or they are predestined to go to hell so it doesn't matter. Either way, there is not much incentive for improvement.

I've always found Calvinism to be a particularly ugly philosophy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Then their God isn't very good at planning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Let's adopt the God of Canada, then. He's way nicer than ours.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. +1....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alterfurz Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. recently seen bumpersticker:
"If God had wanted you to have health care, you would have been born in Canada"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Then I imagine the insurance companies will be going out of business
when the members of the megachurches decide to put their health in God's hands and tear up their BC/BS cards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. So, now things that are not explicitly planned by ...
... government are "planned by god", and should not be interfered with? Shouldn't that make these people not republicans, but rather anarchists?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. Here is the offending piece of lunacy:
In very simplistic terms, the ultimate issue and question is who do we trust or put our security in, God or government? Some may ask what does God have to do with our health care system. For one, He's created the government as an institution in society to do certain things. When we reject His design for government, in a sense, we're rejecting Him. And second, who do we look to for our ultimate security in life, to provide for us, God or the government. Here Jesus' words come to mind about not worrying and trusting God to meet our basic needs. Or if we believe it all depends on us, we'll look to government.

http://mnfamilycouncil.blogspot.com/2009/07/dangers-and-consequences-of-government.html


I think every Christian I know would find such garbage offensive to Christianity, as well as mind-numbingly stupid. It:

Assumes than one form of government is 'designed by God' - stupid, wrong, and directly against what the Bible says
Then claims that a form of government that helps to look after you cannot be doing the work of God. But why can't God work through government - you know, the government that you just said God designed?
The only way I can read this is "God is solely responsible for your health - government, nurses and doctors are all evil and should stop trying to keep people healthy - only prayer can help you!" Either that, or he thinks God is the doctor at his local hospital ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SeeHopeWin Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
10. I will be looking in the Bible for WHY MY DEDUCTIBLES ARE SO HIGH!!!
Going to church this morning...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. If their is a God, he must be ashamed of these followers.nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobw999 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
14. A story a preacher told me:
There was a sudden flood and a man seeing the flood coming stood on the rooftop of his house. The flood water started rising and the man said "I have nothing to fear, God will save me!" He then prayed for god to save him. He waited for God to reach down and move him off the rooftop to safety but nothing happen, suddenly a raft appeared, the man on the raft said, "Sir, I have room for one more, hop on and it will bring us to safety." The man on the roof replied, "I do not need your raft. for God will save me from this flood."

The water continued to rise and the man keeping his faith strong in god was sure that god would save him from the flood. A man in a canoe rowed by and said, "Sir hop in this canoe, we'll be sure to make it to safety." However the man on the rooftop said, "For me to jump in the canoe would show I lack faith, I believe god will save me from this rooftop and not a canoe."

Soon the water was at his waist, a man came driving by in his large boat and said, "Sir, there's plenty of room in this boat, please hop in and we'll be safe for sure." However staying strong in faith the man decided that God will still save him from the rooftop and he does not need a boat.

The water eventually drowned him and when he died he talked to God and said, "God why did you not save me? I kept my faith strong but you did not reply." God then replied, "I sent you the raft, I sent you the canoe and I sent you the boat, absolutely I heard your prayers and answered them."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
teranchala Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. I heard it ending with "You dumb shit I sent you 2 boats and a helicopter"
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. Here is where they differ from the official Catholic position!
The Pope on the World Economy: Prophets, Not Profits

By Jeff Israely Tuesday, Jul. 07, 2009

Ever wondered what God makes of the current global economic crisis? We'll never know, of course, but the man the Roman Catholic Church deems the Almighty's "pastor in chief" has finally weighed in with his own take: Pope Benedict XVI offers neither stock tips nor bailout plans in Caritas in Veritate (Charity in Truth), but the long-awaited third encyclical of his papacy is a wide-ranging commentary on the sources of our economic woes and a holy blueprint for recovery based on something greater than the once mighty dollar.

"The economic sphere is neither ethically neutral, nor inherently inhuman and opposed to society," the 82-year-old Pontiff writes in the encyclical released Tuesday. "It is part and parcel of human activity and precisely because it is human, it must be structured and governed in an ethical manner." But aside from weighing in on the issue of regulating financial markets, his proposals appear to be based largely on fostering in economic actors a sense of obligation to serve the greater good rather than just shareholders and the bottom line.

The Pope states up front that he isn't offering "technical" responses but wants to avoid a simply "sentimental" interpretation of economic rights and wrongs. A theologian by training but an avid student of history and ideas, Benedict attempts to offer some serious philosophical depth — driven by his vision of revealed Christian truth — to the catchphrase ethical capitalism. (See pictures of the global financial crisis.)

Indeed, according to Stefano Zamagni, an economics professor who was a consultant on the encyclical, Benedict believes that capitalism as such is now effectively "obsolete" and must be replaced by a new form of market economy whose driving force is not the maximization of profits.

"Capitalism is an old idea, where the market was supposedly morally neutral ... where efficiency becomes an ethos," said Zamagni during the presentation of the document in the Vatican press office on Tuesday. "This encyclical aims to overcome a dichotomy that characterized the 20th century between the economic and social spheres. If we can instead incorporate the idea of the social element into the economy, the market itself becomes a force for civility." (Read "How to Know When the Economy Is Turning Up.")

Benedict denounces the modern corporate business model, taking on the global Wall Street and its super bonuses, which lead to financial speculation and labor outsourcing. "In recent years, a new cosmopolitan class of managers has emerged, who are often answerable only to the shareholders generally consisting of anonymous funds which de facto determine their remuneration," he writes. "Profit is useful if it serves as a means toward an end. Once profit becomes the exclusive goal, if it is produced by improper means and without the common good as its ultimate end, it risks destroying wealth and creating poverty."

Benedict acknowledges the acceleration of globalization since the last major encyclical dedicated to what is called the church's "social doctrine," Pope Paul VI's Populorum Progressio in 1967. But this too, the Pope says, is inherently neither good nor bad. "We should not be victims of , but rather its protagonists, acting in the light of reason, guided by charity and truth."

The encyclical, which follows two others in this papacy on the concepts of Christian love and hope, was initially scheduled for release last year, but the Pope thought it wise to publish what is in effect a "post–Lehman Brothers" version. There are frequent references to the global financial crisis, though Cardinal Renato Martino, who shepherded the encyclical, declared Tuesday that if it had come out in early 2008, "it would have been prophetic." Its release comes on the eve of the Group of Eight summit in nearby L'Aquila, Italy, where church officials hope its message will reach the world leaders gathered to discuss ways out of the economic crisis.

In one of the more provocative passages, the Pope says the global recession requires not only a reform of the U.N. and international economic institutions but also the "urgent need of a true world political authority ... universally recognized and to be vested with the effective power to ensure security for all, regard for justice, and respect for rights." While critics, particularly in the U.S., are likely to shun such an idea as a utopian sort of "world government," some world leaders, like French President Nicolas Sarkozy, have been advocating since late last year for comprehensive and binding global regulation of financial markets.

The 144-page document — an encyclical is considered Catholicism's highest teaching authority — expands well beyond strict economic theory, touching on abortion, euthanasia, immigration and the environment. In each case, the Pope provides an economic reading of why church teaching on these issues is not only holy but also helpful for improving human material conditions.

In the final section, titled "The Development of Peoples and Technology," the Pope challenges the modern gospel of progress for progress's sake. And as elsewhere in the document, he calls on individuals to take responsibility to do the right thing as both a moral and a socioeconomic imperative. "True development does not consist primarily in 'doing.' The key to development is a mind capable of thinking in technological terms and grasping the fully human meaning of human activities," he writes. "Even when we work through satellites or through remote electronic impulses, our actions always remain human, an expression of our responsible freedom. Technology is highly attractive because it draws us out of our physical limitations and broadens our horizon. But human freedom is authentic only when it responds to the fascination of technology with decisions that are the fruit of moral responsibility." Even more than loose credit, Benedict clearly blames loose morals for our economic ills.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1909020,00.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. So God is whispering in the ears of Insurance Companies' CFOs dictating exclusions of pre-existing
conditions? So God ordered Anthem to change from a nonprofit to Private company - since which time premiums have exploded, as have profits... So much insanity to spout/believe such nonsense.

Anyone else remember the little scandal when it was exposed that a top DeLay aide started his consulting business and letters were found soliciting business to private companies essentially commodifying religious right voters... promising for a big fee to deliver huge letter drives underthe guise of religious grounds. Ralph Reed has been exposed for doing the same thing.

Lift up the covers of this story and you will undoubtedly find the same or new huxters making oodles of money. Sad that those getting duped, don't ever seem to learn. Even more sad when we are left with the consequences.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. God's plan for Health Care
When Jesus comes back, you can touch his robe and be healed! Until then, pray you don't get sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. These nutbags believe an "Anti-Christ" will come and persecute them.
Edited on Sun Aug-09-09 03:27 PM by roamer65
Well... that's one belief I hope they have correct.:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I wonder if ante-Aries is to Mars what "anti-Christ" is to Christ?
*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. God has a health plan? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-09-09 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
29. According to the bible
People should be ruled by kings and half the population ought to be slaves. So much for the bible's political philosophy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC