This is one of the saddest pictures I have ever seen

[proud2BlibKansan]

This was taken at our Coffee with the Congressman yesterday, which was invaded by the teabaggers. The Fair Tax folks were there and handed out this sign.

Makes me sad. I went to Catholic school and loved the nuns. They helped us collect donations for the poor.

All these years later, they are latching on to the far right's idiotic fair tax campaign.

Sad.

[Orrex]

1. Now that's what I call a bad habit.

This campaign with end not with a bang but a wimple.

[Milspec]

5. Loved that

even If I had to google it.

[Orrex]

52. Glad to give you a Google giggle!

:rofl:

[timtom]

79. I got one, too.

Giggle, that is.

Actually, I got two.

[Critters2]

2. I agree, That's pretty stunning. Never thought I'd live to see the day,

I wonder what order she is. The Franciscans and Dominicans I know DO NOT agree with her!

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Caption says

Sister Janette Munsterman with the Sisters of St. Francis of the Holy Eucharist

[MineralMan]

26. That's an Independence, Missouri-based order. Here's their website:

http://www.osfholyeucharist.org/index.php

Contact info on the website at the bottom of the home page.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Thanks! Working on an email now.

Also emailing my Catholic friends. I taught in the diocese for a long time. I still know lots of active Catholics.

[MineralMan]

33. Glad to help.

I couldn't find out under whose authority that order operates. I'm still looking, though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. I am almost sure they are diocesan nuns.

I think they were affiliated with a parish, way back when I was still active in the diocese.

[MineralMan]

40. Got it. They're under the Kansas City/St. Joseph diocese..

http://www.diocese-kcsj.org/news/viewNews.php?nid=17

Contact info for the Bishop:

http://www.diocese-kcsj.org/content/diocese/bishop/

I love the interwebs!

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Thank you

The diocese is shrinking in membership. I think they will pay attention to complaints.

[MineralMan]

43. I hope so. I'll be sending emails as well, although

they're less likely to be taken seriously, since I am not in that area nor am I a Catholic. But, never mind...this should get their attention.

Please let us know what sort of response you get, since you have a connection with that diocese.

I'm thinking that this nun is going to get a lesson in humility and obedience. I hope so.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. Got a response!

From the diocese:

I'm afraid that I have not seen this photo or the accompanying article. I am out-of-town moving my son back to college. I can read email but not view the Web from this phone. I would e
Ncourage you to the Sisters of St. Francis of the Holy Eucharist. They are a religious community in the diocese. They would be the best source to explain their presencr at this event. They have a coomunity house on Noland Road.
Thank you,
Rebecca Summers

[JVS]

70. Monastic orders are subject to a bishop?

I thought orders operated outside of epicopal jurisdiction.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. It's a wiggly line

but yes, when she puts on her habit she does represent the church. I also would strongly suspect the diocese gives this order most of their funding.

[JVS]

84. Actually, I'm pretty sure that monastic orders don't answer to a diocese, but rather...

to superiors within the orders. To use a government metaphor bishops have a land based jurisdiction like states, while orders are more like the military with members of Franciscans, Jesuits, Benedictines answering to that particular order's top heirarchy, which in turn answers to the Pope; not unlike the Army and Airforce members answer up the ranks to their pentagon bosses and then the President.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. They do get funding from the diocese

I also heard back from the diocese and that person did seem concerned.

[Critters2]

60. A Franciscan?!! I can die now. I've seen everything. nt

[sharesunited]

3. I don't think charitable giving does very well under the so-called Fair Tax, does it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. No it does not

[HopeHoops]

4. That's not a nun.

It is a guy named Marvin in drag.

[MineralMan]

6. A polite letter to the diocese, including the photo, might just

have some effect. I don't think the RCC thinks much of nuns taking part in political demonstrations.

I'm betting she'd have lots and lots of rosaries to say following such a letter.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Good idea

[TankLV]

15. They sure seemed to do that when WE tried to rally FOR Liberal causes during the 60's...didn't they!

Essentially told them to cease and desist - PRONTO!

[MineralMan]

21. Sort of. Sometimes.

I think the RCC, or at least most of it, understands that having their professional religious folks making political statements conflicts with their attempts to attract members from all points of view. I'm sure that there's a strict rule against it in each diocese. There may be exceptions, but not many, I'm sure.

One of the principal rules and part of the vows of most religious orders is obedience. This nun (if it's really a nun) is likely to be strongly chastised if the local diocese finds out about it.

"Bad nun! No wafers for you!"

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Contact info:

Sisters of St Francis of the Holy Eucharist:

[e-mail]

http://www.osfholyeucharist.org/


Diocese of Kansas City, MO
http://www.diocese-kcsj.org/contact/

[dixiegrrrrl]

45. Remember the Berrigan priests took part in demonstrations.

They were anti war.
Looks like the nun is anti-health care.
Or anti-insurance..hard to tell exactly what the shouting is all about.

[MineralMan]

57. Yes, I remember them well. They were always in trouble with

the Church, too, for their protests. Time for this nun to be in trouble with the church. As a person, she has the right to protest however she chooses. To do that with the implication that the church agrees with her, however, should bring a sharp rebuke from that church. That's what the Berrigans had to deal with.

[Brigid]

72. If she is a Franciscan . . .

and participating in a demonstration of this sort, then she hasn't learned anything about the Franciscan life, even if she has been one for years. She has problems no amount of rosary prayers are going to solve. We have two parishes in the downtown area run by Franciscan priests. I am sure they would tell me that this is definitely not what Saint Francis had in mind.

[malaise]

8. That's funny

I went to Catholic school and my mom translated lots of stuff for them. I remember the nuns as racists in the main and the entire church as linked with the most reactionary elements in the region. I was also aware that they owned lots of land in our region. While individual nuns and priests were involved in a variety of charities, the history and policies of the church have always been stealing the wealth for the church and siding with reactionaries.

It was only the liberation theologists who had a different view and both Rome and the US turned against them with amazing speed.

Latin American and South American poverty has been facilitated by the said Catholic church. Just check out who's backing the coup in Honduras.

It's all a joke.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. It used to depend on which order of nuns you had

The ones who taught me were very involved with local charities. They started one of the first food kitchens in the area.

I hear ya about the RCC. Won't argue that. I walked away from the church many years ago for many reasons, including the ones you listed.

[TwilightGardener]

10. That's weird. The Catholic Church certainly has nothing to do with

that libertarian bullshit. I think she's just being duped and used--if she's a real nun. Or, she's a fucking idiot.

[wtmusic]

12. Probably a rent-a-nun. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Caption identifies her

This picture was in my local paper.

[mod mom]

13. Since they get tax exempt status, are they allowed to wear their habits while protesting?

[The Gunslinger]

16. her diocese needs to have their tax exempt status removed immediately.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. This isn't illegal

Churches can support issues, not candidates. So it's perfectly okay for them to lobby against abortion or stem cell research or (in this case) health care reform. But they get in trouble with the IRS when they tell their people to vote for a particular candidate.

[Critters2]

61. Exactly. Thanks for clarifying this, proud! nt

[Cha]

88. The sign says "..We will vote to reclaim America" and in this

case it means put the facists back in.

[onenote]

82. should churches whose religious leaders speak out on issues in ways you support

suffer the same fate? Should the UU's lose their tax-exempt status? I know of several very progressive Catholic churches whose leaders have helped organize war protests.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Yes it's legal but stupid

[The Gunslinger]

14. Jesus wants anyone who can't afford heathcare to die.

Jesus wants big business to enslave people
Jesus wants the rich to get richer
Jesus wants our country to be motivated by the accumulation of wealth.
Jesus Loves the The greed market economy

[stray cat]

17. She is one person. Is any one representative of everyone on DU?

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. If I went around wearing a big sign identifying myself as a DUer,

wouldn't you hope I acted like a Democrat?

This nun didn't have to wear her habit to this event.

[sasquatch]

18. Well, its obvious that she feels differently about what was said on the Sermon on the Mound

[lonestarnot]

22. Did she rent that get up?

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Let's hope so

[lonestarnot]

36. Those pugs use any form of trickery and deceit.

I wouldn't put it passed them to rent.

[MineralMan]

44. No. She's real. Google her name, with the Sister at the front.

[izquierdista]

23. A Fair Tax

Is one that is not spent on war.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I don't believe that is part of the Fair Tax platform

[Johonny]

24. I could say something mean but jeepers

St. Francis really not into caring about owning things.

[nevergiveup]

25. Maybe she can't read.

[Deja Q]

29. Hmmm

* war of choice (Iraq)
* welfare for well-to-do companies while denying it to needy citizens
* offshoring of infrastructure
* denying opportunity

And dozens of other things her saint, Bush, had done?

How the hell is all that for insanity?

[Roland99]

30. YAGOAWP (Yet Another Group Of Angry White People)

[graywarrior]

38. After 8 years of living hell with those nasty b*****s, I am not surprised.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

50. Tell me about it. They are the crankiest people I've ever known and they take it out on the kids.

[graywarrior]

51. Lack of nookie

[hileeopnyn8d]

42. Nuns are Communists!

;)

No really. That is a lesson taught to me by Sister Dorothy SSJ. I remember the reactions of my classmates... nooooo commies are bad, how can this be?

There is some serious disconnect going on with her carrying that sign. Vow of poverty. Communal property. Fair Tax?

Doesn't add up.

[etherealtruth]

46. It is VERY sad

Mercifully, this is in direct conflict with the nuns and former nuns that I have known through out my life. I am grateful that the nuns I have known have been great proponents (more often than not, activists) of peace, social justice and social welfare.

Sad, indeed.

[Sheepshank]

47. She is simply a single issue voter.

It's all about abortion.
Dems Yea
Reps Nay

Healthcare reform will permit abortions (doesn't really matter that the reality of currently policies is that it is paid by most insurance companies)
Dems Yea
Reps Nay

Her sign is a ruse it's not about stimulus spending at all!

[Hansel]

63. Exactly.

My brother is very active in the Catholic Church and always votes for Democrats. He is anti-abortion (dork) but he is rational enough to understand that overall Democrats make better policy for everyday people. He is constantly trying to convince these fools that they are voting against their own best interest. He says that they agree with him on everything, including being against the Iraq war and death penalty, but it still all boils down to this one issue.

The area I live in is heavily Catholic and would be very Democratic if it weren't for the abortion issue. I'm so sick of the bumper stickers I could puke. "Fetuses have hearts" or "have fingers" or "can recite the Declaration of Independence" and then always something about someone being killers. Some of them are just downright offensive and depict little fetus body parts or maybe morose jig saw puzzles, I'm not sure which. There is one I like though: "You can't be a Catholic and be pro-abortion". Takes my decision not to be a Catholic right out of my hands. Thanks! I want to get a bumper sticker with the same phrase but that adds the answer: "Okey-doke! See ya'."

[sabrina 1]

74. So true. There is only one issue

the Catholic Church cares about and you cannot get past that no matter how you argue with them. Everything is caused by abortion. You mention war, murder, torture, whatever, it is all caused by the evil of abortion so there's no way to even discuss anything with them. I've tried so many times, but only end up being thoroughly frustrated.

You're absolutely right She's been told that the new healthcare bill will facilitate abortion and that's all they needed to hear.

[deaniac21]

48. I hate it when people don't agree with me, too!

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. This isn't about agreeing with anyone

It's about promoting a policy that would devastate the poor. Sorry you don't get it.

[deaniac21]

81. Nobody knows what is in this health care bill. Certainly not

single payer.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. Um yes many of us do know what's in the billS

They are posted online.

[deaniac21]

95. So you've read the 1200 page bill?

I didn't think so.:shrug:

[TahitiNut]

49. She may be a lay member of the Franciscans and not a religious sister who's taken vows.

The habit seems Franciscan, but the headdress seems to indicate something less than a full religious sister.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Check out the pics on their website

http://www.osfholyeucharist.org/

Habit looks legit to me.

[murdoch]

94. Yaa, she is probably Franciscan

The Poor Clares are the mainstream Franciscan nuns. There are small little orders all over the place though. Their website says theirs was founded six centuries ago. By her brown clothes and T cross she looked Franciscan to me.

I was in a Catholic elementary school in 1980 which had nuns as teachers. In December 1980, three nuns and another Catholic women were beat, raped and killed by far right death squads in El Salvador, just nine months after the far right killed Archbishop Romero there. One thing about nuns, they stick together, and they were not happy about all of this. In fact, some of them openly told us children how horrible it was that bishops, nuns and others were being killed in El Salvador.

[catzies]

54. Am I the only one who's angry that a CHURCH is complaining about TAXES??

They should pay them!!!

Then and only then can they have an opinion about what is or isn't done with (even theoretical) taxpayer $$$.

Until then they should all STFU.

:grr:

[RagAss]

55. Wake up ! The pope was a Hitler youth. They hijacked the faith. Pay attention !!!!

[dysfunctional press]

56. what's so sad about a smiling nun?

ignorance is bliss, and her cup runneth over.

religious people in general are complete dolts in at lest one sense- someone like a nun or a priest or other clergy who make that insanity the focal point of their entire lives may be pitiful...but i don't know if i'd describe it as "sad".

but that's just me- i've seen LOTS "sadder" pics than this one.

[arcadian]

58. Not surprising, the Catholic Church is notoriously right wing.

They are still fighting the godless commies for Christ's sake.

[Critters2]

62. Franciscan orders aren't.

St. Francis and St. Clare must be spinning in their graves!

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. I was raised Catholic and every Catholic I knew as a child was a liberal Democrat

The nuns who taught me in Catholic school started a food kitchen - the first in our area. We collected food for the hungry long before it was a trendy cause. We had school carnivals and gave our proceeds to charities serving the poor. We had clothing drives and mitten trees at Christmas. We volunteered in urban schools tutoring children after school and on Sat mornings.

St Francis would never have supported the Fair Tax. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

Some Catholics may be right wing today but I am still related to a huge family of Catholics who are very liberal Democrats. And even the right wing Catholics still reach out to the poor.

[arcadian]

93. I'm thinking of the Wiliam F Buckleys

and people of his ilk.

[XanaDUer]

59. Most nuns and nurses I know are radicals

Catholic-schooler all thru and up to undergrad.

Oh well, takes all kinds, I guess.

[Vinca]

64. You ought to send a copy of the picture to the IRS.

If the Catholic Church wants to remain a nonprofit they need to keep their noses out of politics.

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. It is legal for a church to support issues but not candidates

So there is nothing illegal about this picture.

[dorkulon]

68. An ignorant religious person? Amazing. nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

71. Didn't know nuns could be so overtly political

[Critters2]

73. Nuns have been deeply involved in all sorts of progressive issues,

mostly for peace and justice. Many nuns have been arrested for acts of resistance at the School of the Americas for instance. What's stunning isn't the political activity. It's the RIGHT-WING political activity.

[rug]

76. Feel better.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/03/19/18486894.php

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. Thank you

[Bluerthanblue]

77. One person hiding behind her "habit" doesn't speak for all...!

that's a kind of prejudice that we all fall into-

She's one person, who felt the need to hide her opinion behind her religious garb, and a pre-made sign. Goes to show that you should only "judge" each person individually- not as "Dems"- "Pukes" "them" or "us".

:shrug:

[rug]

80. Since she follows Francis' Rule, maybe she can reflect on his prayer.

Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_of_Saint_Francis

How does that stack up against the people she was with?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6257102

[Critters2]

85. She needs to have a conversation with these nuns:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-sisters-immigration-aug09,0,6741430.story

They could explain the gospel to her.

[spanone]

87. while she lives under an institution that pays no taxes...how much fairer does she want???

[bleever]

89. She probably considers original sin a "pre-existing condition".

She's definitely out of order, so to speak.

[theflyer03]

91. ha ha ha

LOL:7

[Contrary1]

90. Rent a nun costume and show up for the other side...

Be interesting to see how the tea baggers treat a "person of faith" with the opposite viewpoint.

[Lagomorph]

92. If...

...families are required to provide health care for their household and cannot opt out, it will put a dent on the tithe plate.

Besides, if you're sick, you're supposed to ask Jesus to heal you.