Another Blow to Public Option--Durbin Open To Dropping It

[Joe Bacon]

Source: Huffington Post

One of Barack Obama's chief allies in the United States Senate hinted on Sunday that a public insurance option could go by the wayside as Congress hammers out its health care legislation.

Appearing on CNN's "State of the Union," Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), one of the chamber's foremost progressives, said that while he supported a government-run option for insurance, he was "open" to alternatives.

"So we'll see how this ends, but I don't want the process to be filibustered to failure, which unfortunately, many senators are trying to do," Durbin added. "I want to make sure that we do something positive for the American people."

The comments are similar to the line coming from the White House in recent days, with officials indicating that they would be open to a co-op based insurance model, provided that it had enough leverage to lower costs for consumers. (In this plan, non-profit cooperatives would get a charter from the government to take premiums from members and cover claims, expanding the risk pool for individuals buying insurance). Indeed, for Durbin to make the remarks he did on CNN is a strong indication that the party -- from Obama on down -- sees the public option as a likely victim in an effort to get 60 votes for health care's passage in the Senate.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/09/another-blow-to-public-op_n_254961.html

---

God forbid we tamper with CEO salaries!

[Barack_America]

1. In a related note, I'm open to dropping my donations to the Democratic Party. nt

[glowing]

3. +1

[timeforpeace]

51. Translation: public option is dead. And they will expect us support whatever crap bill results.

[Joe Bacon]

79. Well, since Mr. Durbin has given up on the Public Option..

Since Durbin and Obama have made it clear that they want No Single Payer or Public Option and they want the pimped out Baucus bill, then here are amendments that WE want on the Baucus Bill as a last-ditch effort to force any reform:

1) Federalizing all insurance regulators. No more state insurance commissioners that can be bought off one by one, and one set of rules will apply to everyone. No bought off states where the pimps can rip off victims with watered down enforcement!
2) We declare that insurance is a public utility and has to be tightly regulated.
3) Requiring ALL insurance companies to be mutualized--they must be owned by the policyholders. NO STOCKHOLDERS MAY HAVE ANY STAKE IN ANY INSURANCE COMPANY!
4) Policyowners will vote for the board of directors of these companies.
5) All companies must accept anyone for health insurance irregardless of their conditions and their premiums will be reasonably fixed by Federal regulators. NO MORE RATING!
6) Claims must be paid within 30 days
7) Failure to pay claims timely will result in the company paying an additional 12% penalty to the policyholder.
8) No employee of any health insurance company shall be paid more than 75% of the salary of the President of the United States. No stock options. No profit sharing. No deferred compensation. No other "salary incentive or enhancement".
9) Doctors determine the course of treatment WITHOUT interference from unelected beancounters accountable only to keeping a CEO's salary as high as possible.

Since we can't get change we can believe in from these whores, we'll take these nickel and dime consolations to the pimps running this racket so they get their balls continually busted 24/7.

[moonbatmax]

83. I would add:

NO deductible or co-pay until the insurer has paid out EVERY LAST CENT the insured has paid into his/her plan. I don't see why I should be paying hundreds of dollars a month into a plan that won't pay a single DIME until I've spent a thousand or more out of my own pocket. Otherwise, what the HELL am I paying for?

[guardian]

91. In large part you are paying for

the person that is getting a $40,000 operation, or that pacemaker, or that new kidney. That is what the hell you are paying for. Insurance funds have to be spread out amongst all the participants. Stop being so myopic...the world doesn't revolve around YOU. The lack of basic business economics by some people is astounding.

[destes]

107. "Stop being so myopic" yourself, guardian

What about all the premiums the insured has been paying for years? Years without a single claim. Does it all have to go the way the insurance company wants? If I had all the money I've given to the insurance companies over the last 40 years and subtracted the medical expenses it's paid for me, it stacks up to a tidy sum for the insurance company. Considering I'll be going to medicare at 66, the odds look pretty good that the insurance industry loved to see me and loves to see me go.

If the point is to look at the broad picture and see how the money is spread across all the insurance carrier's clientelle then why pretend we don't already have a socialist health care system. One that pretty well runs the whole government, much to our misfortune.

[Joe Bacon]

116. My mom and dad paid premiums for years

But when it came time to pay out it was delay delay delay. Any excuse to delay. They wound up losing their house. Hell is too nice a place for anyone denying claims for Blue Cross or Blue Shield.

[Veilex]

124. Wow...thats a very limited view on the issue...

You have failed to add in the dramatic wage increases over the last 10 years for insurance companies (which in some cases rival or exceed that of oil companies), the enormous load of cash they dump into lobbying (local and federal governments alike)or the fact that insurance companies have a non competitive oligarchy which they thoroughly enjoy. I suppose you could add in energy costs and taxes or whatnot... but compared to the aforementioned, they realy don't even compare.

Before you decide to go around attacking people for their "lack of basic business economics", you might want to brush up on it yourself... and look up some macro economics while your at it.

[kenfrequed]

164. Myopia is apparantly contagious

Our system operates on waste, denial, and greed. Do some cost comparisions in other industrialized nations. Our healtthcare budget is insanely bloated because of the massive number of insurance company ticks that feast off of our misery. In some cases more is spent on administration than on actual medical care.

Because HMO's and insurance companies refuse to pay out when they are supposed to, hospitals are forced to increase the cost of services to cover the shortfall. Hospitals, clinics, and health systems must also now employ tons of staff whose sole job it is to collect payment from and process prior authorization requests with insurance companies and carriers.

All of the extra cost there is to prop up and justify the existence of private insurance.

Spare me the economic lecture.

[dgibby]

115. You are paying for them to kill you with denial of service. n/t

[clspector]

99. Let's simplify --

and just nationalize ALL the insurance companies. This nonsense has gone on long enough. I've become completely radicalized by this bulls***. I believe the only way we can fix what's wrong with the insurance companies is immediate nationalization.

[Joe Bacon]

103. I've had it too. Single Payer or Nothing!

We compromised with the Public Option and it's been flushed down the toilet. Forget it. I'm fucking tired of the sellouts who beg "bipartisanship". Where was the bipartisanship when the fucking Nazi Republicans were running the show? Their version of bipartisanship was "Here it is, Vote for it or else!" And what did the Democrats always do under Bush? They laid down and died! We were told that putting the Democrats in control of Congress would restore the subpoena power and investigate. Joe LIEberman swore that he would investigate Katrina. Well, what happened? LIEberman lied and went right on kissing Bush's ass. Then in 2008, we were told we needed 60 Senators to get anything done. Never mattered that the Republicans only needed 51 to get everything they wanted. We got 60 Senators. And they are selling out to the insurance companies. Now the Democratic Senatorial Committee says we need even more Democratic Senators. WHY? We have 60. Nothing is still getting done. What will happen if we get to 70? Look at the track record. All my hope was based on health care reform. The insurance companies fucked my parents out of their house because they refused to pay for services my mother needed. The insurance companaies fucked me out of my IRA because I had to bust it to pay for surgery my mother needed that they refused to pay for so some fucking beancounter could get a bonus check. And now my copays tripled for the medicine I need.

Now Obama has sold us out. If he rams the Baucus sellout bill down our throats, then It's time to form an American version of the Canadian New Democratic Party and take control of a couple states to pass single payer. Let the teabaggers have the current system. Let them whine when they get screwed by the insurance pimps and praying to Jesus yields them nothing! I'M FUCKING MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS BIPARTISAN BULLSHIT ANYMORE!

Mr. President you promised us change we can believe in. With the abandonment of single payer, you're just tossing us a Baucus Bill that will only give us a couple of dimes and nickels, which your insurance company pals will take from us as copayments.

This is YOUR moment of truth, Mr. President! Are you a leader or a sellout?

[JeanGrey]

126. ABSOLUTELY! NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK.

[earcandle]

128. oOOOHHHHHH that is NIceeeeee!

[SandWalker1984]

165. Excellent post.

You should also put this up on huffpo if you can. With your permission, I'd like to send this to my senator.

[Joe Bacon]

169. Huff Post refused to post this

Twice I tried to post it and it was rejected. Feel free to send it to your Senator. Right now, the only two members of Congress who would show any interest are Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders.

[emilyg]

134. +2

[DrDan]

17. I am afraid our contributions pale in comparison to what these guys

get from the for-profit healthcare companites.

They do represent them, after all. We are an afterthought.

[DaLittle Kitty]

77. I Will Fight This Tooth And Nail! The Corruption Of BOTH Parties Is UNDENIABLE (VIDEO)

and so is a good friend of mine... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF3dTsUs9ks

[Supersedeas]

168. I'm sure when Kay Hagan considers BCBS or our web-base donations, she'll change her mind

about the public option.

[man4allcats]

20. +2

[mascarax]

70. Yes, same conclusion in this household

I especially like responses that reference "You're not in my district/state so I'm not reading your email/letter".
Hmm, but they always accept $$$ from outside their district/state.

[beltanefauve]

86. Good point.

I'm so sick of this shit!

[Grinchie]

101. They lost me as soon as they appointed Michael Taylor to the USDA again.

This Hillbilly Hoedown of mummified, reanimated remains of the DLC Corporation and CAFO club can go take a long walk off a short pier.

No wonder people feel betrayed at this sham. Say one theng, then shove them under a bus when they win. Typical Corporate, win at any cost charade, and they think the American people will actually put up with it after Bush.

They could not be more mistaken.

[Hissyspit]

2. Dennis Kucinich: "Compromising their compromises..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x350754

KUCINICH: "This bill could eventually fall of its own weight. There are so many compromises being made, people are compromising their compromises which were already compromised - this is so compromised a bill. And after a while people meet themselves, meet their shadow coming around the corner."

"Insurance companies, which have us in a death grip on the political process right now...."

Surprise! Rep. Kucinich seems to know of that which he speaks.

[bjobotts]

44. To act bipartisan some dems are saying "they are open to alternatives" knowing there aren't any

[bjobotts]

45. Co-ops are republican appeasements demonstrated not to work but look who's offering it

[bjobotts]

47. Without a strong public option there is no reform and Obama knows this so don't be mislead

[bjobotts]

48. While there may be some amendments that suck we will get a public option

[Iowa]

61. Obama knows it? So what? He's colluding with big-insurance and will cave like a cheap tent. n/t

[Grinchie]

104. It's too late.. He's sold out too much already.

He's gone too far, and his reputation is now tainted with the stink of Corporate control.

No different than the last administration actually.

[DJ13]

4. I really hate the triangulation of policy by the DLC'ers

They will be the death of the resurgent Democratic Party.

Why vote Dem if you end up with Repub like policies?

[villager]

12. More and more, that's the question, eh?

n/t

[knixphan]

39. exactly. that's why they need to be Primaried.

[mod mom]

98. Ever wonder why they didn't fight to expose the corrupt voting system?

They need it to win in case progressives run against them in primaries. If they blew the lid on the tainted system, they would have to answer to the voters instead of those with deep pockets. :mad:

[Grinchie]

105. Exactly. It's an illusion of two parties

But the real, majority power is that of the invisible Government guided by the Corporate hand.

Thats why you see many of the same things occuring without any meaningful changes since the election. All the so called accomplishments by Obama are trivial and unsubstantial in nature, and placate a very few of the real problems we face.

Meanwhile, War Spending rages ahead, the Defict Cap is now under attempt to being increased to 12 billion dollars! Thats for this year alone kids. And we have the Federal Reserve playing Americans for fools.

Thanks Ben Nelson, I really didn't want to see the Fed Audited, after all, why should actually seeing the accounts actually be of any use to us?

[Eric J in MN]

5. Way to wimp out in the middle of the process. NT

NT

[Oceansaway]

6. Durbin also caved in on the

Lieberman crap....he's just another lapdog, whom i won't vote for again...

[Enthusiast]

59. I feel pretty well disenfranchised.

It is one disappointment after another from one lawmaker after another. I expect lunacy from the GOP.

[RandomThoughts]

7. I understand the concept of being able to discuss things,

But if the only argument against public option reform is protecting insurance companies. And some alternative is picked to maintain control or pricing by insurance companies, then those voting for it will have made their loyalties clear.

Loyalty to the insurance company and big money.


There are no models of working co-ops, that seems like a dead end on purpose.

[Enthusiast]

60. Chris Mathews laughed today

when he said there would be no taxing the rich to pay for health care reform. He chuckled as if he was privy to some inside information. So, this is how it is.

[KoKo]

72. Well....he's an "insider" so I'd take him at his word on this one.

I've seen his evil chuckle. Usually means something bad for Dems is coming.

[RandomThoughts]

142. I would remind him he who laughs last... you know the rest. n/t

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-2-2007/chris-matthews

An interesting clip of Chris Mathews expecting the inside fake method of TV interviews and not happy with an interview.

Note also Chris Mathews speaks about his Machiavellian views. He actually smiles and says his book is better then 'the price' the book about deception to get power.

He also advocates dishonesty to be successful.

It seems Chris Mathews is not listening.

[bkkyosemite]

8. Everyone needs to call Durbin and tell him he better not back down we pay his wage!!!

WASHINGTON, D.C.
309 Hart Senate Bldg.
Washington, DC 20510
9 am to 6 pm
[phone] - ph
[phone] - fx

CHICAGO
230 S Dearborn St.
Suite 3892
Chicago, IL 60604
8:30 am to 5 pm
[phone] - ph
[phone] - fx

SPRINGFIELD
525 South 8th St.
Springfield, IL 62703
8:30 am to 5 pm
[phone] - ph
[phone] - fx

MARION
701 N. Court St.
Marion, IL 62959
8:30 am to 5 pm
[phone] - ph
[phone] - fx

[Kittycat]

11. See post 10

[Karenina]

37. Rather than complain, EVERYONE needs to HAMMER HIM.

[rhett o rick]

160. Good grief. You pretend that we have any power over him. Sorry but you can't primary

an incumbent Democrat. Threats would be hollow. The rhetoric sounds good but you can't primary an incumbent.

[global1]

9. Health Reform - DOA........

Dead on arrival.

[Kittycat]

10. I just left a VM & sent an Email.

As a constituent, I'm fuming right now. I'd also like to point out that I've sent him 4 emails the past 2 months, and I've yet to even get a form letter on one of them. However, President Obama managed to send a response to me within 2 wks of emailing. Go figure.

[rhett o rick]

161. He knows that he won't be defeated in a primary. You won't get a progressive

to even run against him. And even if you did, the Democratic Party would support him as would big money. It is essentially impossible to primary an incumbent Democrat. Lieberman did but then was helped to stay in office by the Democratic Party good ole boy club.

[wroberts189]

13. Sigh .. we only need 51 votes. nt

[npk]

43. The problem is the blue dog dems

Some of the 59 dems in the senate are not as liberal as the others. With all the blue dogs, plus the moderates and more centrist dems they don't total up to 51 votes necessarily. That's why we need the republicans, at least many of them, otherwise the blue dogs and more moderates in our party will defeat this bill.

[sabrina 1]

66. And yet, even in the minority, the Republicans

manage to get what they want. And even when some Republicans look like they might be going against the party, the leadership gets on their cases and before long they're on board.

If Dems cannot pass legislation with the majority they have, then there IS no point in voting for them.

Now, they are using the Blue Dogs as an excuse. That is infuriating since most of their base wanted many of these faux Democrats primaried and were told 'we need them for the numbers'. So, that wasn't true after all, just as we thought.

They are at the end of the line as far as fooling their base, which they seem to despise more than the rightwing nutcasess btw, going along with that kind of logic anymore. It only worked in the first place, because of the Bush administration.

I don't know the answer to what's going on in this country, but more and more it's looking like it isn't Democrats any more than it is Republicans.

[rhett o rick]

162. You aint gonna get a single repuke and not the Blue Chickens either. nm

[Hansel]

14. I think that this is a political manuever to get one of the senate bills to committee.

There are 5 bills (2 from the senate and 3 from the house). From what I understand, most of them include a public option. Plus you have the White House supporting the public option.

When the bills all go to committee all of the bills will be combined and the WH will have input. I think what Durbin was saying was that he was open to passing this one bill without the public option just to get it to committee. I could be wrong because I didn't hear his interview. But Donna Brazille was talking about it and said that this was just a strategy to get all of the bills to committee.

[jody]

15. How can that be when many DUers assured me there is a plan when I asked "where is the plan". n/t

[flyarm]

25. shhhh..didn't you know ( per posters here at du) that

see here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8575361&mesg_id=8575376

"There is so much disinformation out there AND the plan isn't complete yet."

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

am I the only one who keeps seeing this Meme here at Du?


so if the plan is not complete..how can our congress critters be out at town halls selling something that is not complete?

That is like the car salesman telling you you must buy this car..he doesn't know what the model IS , or make is..he doesn't know what color it is..but you must buy it..Because it is sooooooooo damn good for you!! He says .."TRUST ME"....

Seems I remember hearing that "Trust me "bullshit before..over Tarp and the the Wall street bail outs..how are those mortgage foreclosures going in your neck of the woods..are we the people getting all that help promised???????

shhhhhhhhh some here at DU don't want you to know about this........ahhh Franky..seems the hero worship for you here at DU will now want to see you under the ...very crowded bus!!


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/opinion/09rich.html?_r=1

Is Obama Punking Us?
By FRANK RICH
Published: August 8, 2009

snip:

Yet there is real reason for longer-term worry in the form of a persistent, anecdotal drift toward disillusionment among some of the president’s supporters. And not merely those on the left. This concern was perhaps best articulated by an Obama voter, a real estate agent in Virginia, featured on the front page of The Washington Post last week. “Nothing’s changed for the common guy,” she said. “I feel like I’ve been punked.” She cited in particular the billions of dollars in bailouts given to banks that still “act like they’re broke.”

snip:
It’s a cynicism confirmed almost daily by events. Last week Brian Stelter of The Times reported that the corporate bosses of MSNBC and Fox News, Jeffrey Immelt of General Electric and Rupert Murdoch of News Corporation, had sanctioned their lieutenants to broker what a G.E. spokesman called a new “level of civility” between their brawling cable stars, Keith Olbermann and Bill O’Reilly. A Fox spokesman later confirmed to Howard Kurtz of The Post that “there was an agreement” at least at the corporate level. Olbermann said he was a “party to no deal,” and in any event what looked like a temporary truce ended after The Times article was published. But the whole scrape only fed legitimate suspicions on the right and left alike that even their loudest public voices can be silenced if the business interests of the real American elite decree it.

You might wonder whether networks could some day cut out the middlemen — anchors — and just put covert lobbyists and publicists on the air to deliver the news. Actually, that has already happened. The most notorious example was the flock of retired military officers who served as television “news analysts” during the Iraq war while clandestinely lobbying for defense contractors eager to sell their costly wares to the Pentagon.

The revelation of that scandal did not end the practice. Last week MSNBC had to apologize for deploying the former Newsweek writer Richard Wolffe as a substitute host for Olbermann without mentioning his new career as a corporate flack. Wolffe might still be anchoring on MSNBC if the blogger Glenn Greenwald hadn’t called attention to his day job. MSNBC assured its viewers that there were no conflicts of interest, but we must take that on faith, since we still don’t know which clients Wolffe represents as a senior strategist for his firm, Public Strategies, whose chief executive is the former Bush White House spin artist, Dan Bartlett.

[jody]

119. I don't trust any politician's promises, only what she/he has done. n/t

[yourout]

16. The only alternative to Public Option is Single Payer.

[Faygo Kid]

18. Given this, it's likely gone. The insurance industry and PhRMA will win everything.

Mandatory private insurance for all, with no real oversight. Lip service paid to covering those with pre-existing conditions, but no protections. 5-1 age rating (older Americans must pay five times the amount in premiums, instead of 2-1 like we were promised). No public plan. No secretarial negotiating authority on drugs, no importion, and at least a 12 year patent protection period. These are only a few realities coming down the pike. "Tort reform" that removes consumer legal protections. This is going to be awful. They may attract GOP votes with what is going to face us, as the insurance industry and PhRMA tells them to vote for it (and they will do as they are told).

Big signing ceremony and smiles all around. Parties like never before on K Street.

Wonderful.

[Joe Bacon]

19. Obama already sold out to Billy Tauzin

Obama sold us out by allowing Tauzin's PhRMA pals to block Medicare "D" from bargaining for lower costs. In return, Billy is going to spend $150 million he extorted from us praising the fucked up shit coming out from Baucus.

Obama has made it clear that the Baucus bill is what he wants. And that is what we will be stuck with! A bill written by Baucus, Conrad and Bingaman that forces us to buy junk policies and keeps the beancounter's death panels in place.

[mdmc]

21. DLC!DLC!

open!

[euphoria12leo]

22. Blue Dog Compromises

We the people need to shake up the Senate. Vote these
people out. They seem to be set in their ways and think
they can't be voted out of office. I don't know why
President Obama keeps listening to all those who continue
to stand in the way of what the majority of voters want.

And Ben Nelson is making threats about public option if
the ads running against him don't stop. He really thinks
a lot of himself.

[Teaser]

23. Public option will be in the final bill

There is no way around it, if you just count votes in the House. A bill without a public option will not come out of conference.

[bvar22]

29. No. THE "Public Option" is DEAD.

The Public Option proposed by Edwards, championed by Howard Dean, and promised by Obama ("like Medicare")....

The Public Option that would be Publicly Owned, run by the Government, and open to ALL Americans...

The Public Option that would "open the door to Single Payer" and "Keep Insurance Companies Honest"....

THAT Public Option had been KILLED by The Democrats and replaced with something they merely call a Public Option that is so restricted and "fire-walled" that the CBO projects that only 10 Million people will be enrolled by 2019.

The "Public Option" that our Democrats are selling today should be renamed "The Health Insurance Industry Profit Protection Bill".

[Teaser]

55. Sorry, I'm not interested in continuing this debate

Either you've given up or your psychic. If it's the former, I have nothing to say with you. If it's the latter, I want to perpetuate my illusion of free will a bit longer.

[Zhade]

62. Sorry -- you're wrong and she's right. Get your head out of the sand.

NT!

[Joe Bacon]

113. Obama backs the "bipartisan" Baucus Bill

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_33/b4143034820260.htm?chan=magazine+channel_top+stories

The pimps running the health insurance racket must continue to get their hundred million dollar plus salaries.

[Grinchie]

114. You are welcome to do it, but I would prepare for the worst if I were you

If Universal Single Payer Healthcare is not enacted, I have a feeling that the majority of Americans are going to say Fuck It and start looking for a new Gandhi to help rid them of the Corporate Government of America.

You really think people are going to put up with this bullshit, especially when their are many viable examples of Universal Healthcare running in the world? Not a chance. Only the criminally insane could think that people are so stupid as to go along with the status quo, or subsidized, mandatory insurance coverage. It's a fucking joke.

Long ago, I became unhappy with the Quality of Service from the average doctor one finds on the market these days, so I learned about it myself, and you know what, people are not genetically directed to being unhealthy. They actually are very robust, resilient creatures, given the right nutrition, clean air, and un polluted water and food.

The only trouble is that unpolluted air, water, and food is getting harder and harder to come by, so people gradually degenerate into dying, atrophied husks clinging to life.

Universal health care, in seeking to keep people healthy, would most like identify these three important facts, which would destroy modern industrial practices once and for all, and force them to clean up their act.

They are resistant to this, to say the least.

[BlueJac]

24. Their are all starting to back down............

I love Obama's big Pharma deal too!! WTF is wrong with these people. We are so fucked. When the politicians are signed, sealed, and delivered, it is GAME OVER!! I am so fed up.

[bvar22]

30. Even Obama has stopped calling it "Health Care Reform",

..and started calling it "Health Insurance Reform".

[dflprincess]

138. And the only "reform" is that we will be required to hand

money over to the insurance companies or be fined for not contributing to them. I suppose this is just a way to help the industry recover all the money they've spent lobbying agains change.

[Captain Hilts]

145. That's actually more accurate. nt

[mvd]

26. I hope it's not pressure they are getting during the recess

Mandatory private insurance not regulated enough just means that they will price people out to make up for concessions.

And from what I've seen, how would these co-ops be different than ones that haven't been successful?

[KoKo]

74. A bunch of jackboots wielding guns and shouting and jostling might have

a little to do with it. And Rahm telling the Dem Activists to go fuck themselves, might be another part of it.

[mvd]

87. When there's an atmosphere of "compromise" promoted by..

some Dems, the RW disruption might mean more. But I wish this time, we would stand our ground and do what is right. RW has bullied our party for too long. Perhaps our activists will counter them.

[KoKo]

108. I wish so too...and hopefully our wishes will be the ones that dominate...

:shrug: what else can we hope.

[Hippo_Tron]

96. I wish the White House had made more use of OFA

We've been so used to right wing "protests" being a joke for the past 8 years that we've forgotten the fact that when your party is out of power it's a lot easier to throw together a protest than it is when you are in power, even if it is just an astroturf protest. Organizing For America was supposed to keep the grassroots active even while we are in the White House but I fear it's too little too late.

[KoKo]

109. I think the Progressive or even "Left of Center" folks are having difficulties..we

were working so hard throughout Bush Administration...we just didn't see that electing a completely new Dem...wouldn't make the difference we hoped for.

I think it has to sort out...but OMG...so many who worked so hard are looking for SOMETHING!

[ScottLand]

27. Well, I'm okay with that.

It means my family won't have the coverage we need, but it'll make me feel good just knowing that the folks on Capitol Hill are still getting top notch health care.

[varelse]

28. Mandating purchase of a flawed product from a bloated corporate monopoly

without providing a viable alternative, and then charging us extra to help purchase this corporate fraud for those who can't afford to buy their own - that's "doing something positive for the American people"?

Don't do me any favors, Dick. :grr:

[FlyByNight]

31. Corporations uber alles

Seriously, how out-of-touch can Congress (with a few notable exceptions) be on this?

The republic is, pardon the pun, on life-support, if not already dead. Wall St., the military-industrial complex, the "healthcare" industry and PhRMA run the show.

Thanks for the support. Dick.

[dgibby]

32. Face it, folks.

We're an Oligarchy, and when more members of the "Family" get into power, we'll be a Theocratic Oligarchy.

[frebrd]

33. They're all open to dropping it just as soon as.........

they've got their asses carefully covered and can blame it on someone else. They always have been.

That way, they hope they can still get their "health care"/insurance/pharmaceutical industries' contributions.

:(

Edited for spelling.

[scytherius]

34. If that happens I am done with the Dems forever.

Of course I will NEVER EVER vote for a Republican. But it's either 3rd party or I just sit home. Those in my circle of friends are pretty much the same way. And, of course, they have no intention of voting for the whacko GOP but most of us have been voting since the 70s and this is make or break time and I am one who understand the art of compromise. It's either a strong public option or screw America. I'm done with the Dems forever. I've already stopped donating as I wait and see.

[Jakes Progress]

146. I think I gotta be with you there.

A strong (really strong) public option is the least I will settle for.

Sort of wish the commies hadn't tarnished the name "People's Party."

[Titonwan]

35. Tell them to bring a canteen, sleeping bag and Depends® if they want to try.

I'm tired of this weak ass shit from the so called "Democrats". A bunch of paid off shills for the big pharmacy's. I'm so mad I could spit.j
Get to those town halls or sit there and watch health care PASS YOU BY. DO IT!

[still_one]

36. Good move Dick. A lot of Democrats sure showed the stuff they were made of for the IWR

and the Patriot Act

Gee, if Democrats didn't vote for the IWR and Patriot Act under Dashale, we would have surely lost the 2004 election.......


Oh, wait a minute, we did lose the 2004 election

Hmmm,

I have a brilliant idea, maybe if the Democrats actually did the right thing, we might win

[orleans]

38. note to dick:

we are counting on you to do the right thing

if you can't do right by us then i can't vote for you again.

and i'll be calling your offices tomorrow

[Metta]

40. Uh, Dick ..., that's a betrayal of the public good. Are you that much in the industriy's pocket?

... obscenely unfair and immoral. Happy karma.

[dmosh42]

41. Not much different than the 'Bush' era! n/t

[KamaAina]

42. Change we can believe in.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[kevinbgoode]

46. I'm more than willing to give up supporting this party then.

Why not just call this the "Teabagger Welfare Bill" instead of "healthcare reform."

[d_b]

49. viable 3rd party plz

I don't care wtf it's called: progressive dems, the greens, the cyans, the fangbutt snotclaws; whatever.

We currently have two parties: Republican and Republican-lite; and the saddest part is that it doesn't have to be this way.

[Kermitt Gribble]

75. "fangbutt snotclaws"

I know this is no laughing matter, and I agree with you completely that it's past time for a 3rd party, but lol'd at that one!

[d_b]

139. hehe

it's a unique monster from the Diablo II video game :D

[Vinca]

50. Right after I read this piece I got a phone call from the DCCC

looking for a contribution. It was not a good time for them to call.:rofl:

[euphoria12leo]

52. It's A Thin Line Democrats

The more the Dems drag this out the more donations they receive. Everyday I get an email with the words "Donate."
If they keep pissing me off and screwing around with my money I will just unsubscribe. And that's my promise. I
see they don't keep any of what they promise.

BTW: Hurry up Dems people are getting a bit restless.

[valerief]

53. Without a public option there is no bill, unless the bill is single payer. nt

[sharesunited]

81. That's what Howard Dean asks. Without a public option, exactly what IS it? Not reform.

[orbitalman]

129. Without a public option MINIMALLY...

There is NO reform, or change.

[AzDar]

54. Call ALL the sellout fuckers who enjoy taxpayer-subsidized health care...

and let them KNOW...We Won't Be FOOLED again!

[asdjrocky]

56. Oh yeah, we're dead. They just haven't buried us yet.

But don't give up! No way! We can do it... YES WE CAN ... (help the insurance companies protect their obscene profits.)

[rollingrock]

57. Rolling over and playing dead.

That's what dems are best at doing. Except they're not pretending.

[cleverusername]

58. Wierd comment about nuns?

What's up with the nun comment?

No way a nun or priest would get within a 100 yards of my kids.

[Peregrine Took]

65. Oh please, 99% of them are good people. Just a couple of jamokes ruined

the reputation of all.

[Politicub]

63. Insurance co-ops? No! We want the public option

Stop listening to the crazy 17 percenters. The majority of Americans have voiced their approval of a public option.

Get this done.

[silverweb]

64. I just emailed him.

I used my old Illinois address to get around the form screening and said right up front that I no longer live there.

I told him that regardless of my current residency, if he endorses dropping a strong public option, he'll lose all credibility and a lot of supporters -- and I'll work to see to it.

Hopefully, he'll receive a huge number of similar emails.

[Saxon]

67. HR reform was never about HR reform

The purpose was to stem the rising tide for single payer while protecting
and strengthening the insurance companies.

Did you actually think the politician/sociopaths in control of congress
could give a rats ass about the people.
They are barely aware you exist.

(PS) I can think of only 2 people in the house and senate who can be counted
to vote in the interest of the people every time.

[JackDragna]

68. Health care the latest under the bus.

Continuing wars, continued abuse of prisoners, disregard for gay rights and now the torpedoing of public health care. Remind me why we should vote for these people?

[dysfunctional press]

69. i give up.

i'm done with this bullshit.

it's not worth getting worked up about anymore, because they're just going to do what the corporate interests want them to do, and our population is too incredibly stupid & self-centered to see what's obviously best for everyone.

i'm not going to donate, campaign, or even vote for ANY candidates from here on out. they've infected me with a terminal case of voter apathy...it's their fucking world- they can have it.

[BobRossi]

71. Are any of you getting the hint yet?

This is a DLC run administration.

[NorthCarolina]

85. Heaven forbid anyone should mention "DLC"

and "Obama" in the same sentence around here (DU) during the primaries...that was a real no-no. Still glad I supported Kucinich though, because amongst all the apparent smoke-and-mirrors we were given, his campaign was a true reflection of the man and the legislator.

[BobRossi]

102. Glad to see there are still some around here that haven't drunk the Kool-Aid.

Thanks for helping preserve some rationale around here.

[enki23]

73. fuck you, durbin. fuck. you.

.

[NorthCarolina]

76. You have to wonder why our elected officials are so adverse to

doing something beneficial for their constituents, especially in light of the fact that there is overwhelming public support for it...especially single payer. These legislators certainly receive a wealth of personal and financial benefits by the grace of their constituents who put them there, so why is it so repugnant to them to actually give back?

[LibDemAlways]

157. Ordinary people are of practically no value to politicians. It's all

about money and who is contributing the most. Big donations mean bigger, healthier campaigns. The fact that ordinary people then turn out to vote is the goal, true, but the needs and desires of the voters have little, if any, bearing on determining policy.

My brother had a very telling experience a few years ago. He was working as a claims rep for a homeowner's ins. company and happened to be assigned to the claim of a bigwig Dem fundraiser here in Calif. This was back when Gray Davis was running for governor. Anyhow the fundraising homeowner invited him to attend an event for Davis at his house, strictly as a guest, no strings attached. My brother showed up and stayed pretty much off to the side as an observer while Davis hobnobbed with a bunch of wealthy people in expensive clothes who were writing big checks. Finally Davis spotted my brother and walked over, almost immediately asking him who he was and how much he was giving. When my brother explained that he was just a friend of the host but that he would support Davis with his vote, Davis turned on his heels and walked away without so much as a "Nice to have met you." He had no use for an ordinary member of the public. I suspect that's pretty much how it is with politicians in general. Unless you have the ability to generously grease their palm, you are nothing.

[Kermitt Gribble]

78. No strong public option =

no votes or money for the Dem party from me ever again.

[Joe Bacon]

80. I've had it! SINGLE PAYER OR NOTHING!

WE DEMAND SINGLE PAYER NOW! SINGLE PAYER OR NOTHING!

[Libertas1776]

82. This website

might have to change its name to Independent Underground, 'cause at the way things are going, I don't know how much longer many more DUer's will stand to be Democrats at the rate they're sending us down the river.

[ima_sinnic]

84. tomorrow I'm reregistering as an Independent

I recently moved and have not yet registered to vote here.
I will no longer be supporting the "Democratic" Party. If I'm now banned from DU, big deal.
"Democrats" are PIGS and not worth time, energy, money, or VOTE.
I will now be voting 3rd party. Let the nation of assholes collapse for all I care.

[humbled_opinion]

88. Our Leadership just doesn't get it.

They control the government. They will be held accountable and the REPUKES are masters at playing politics with these issues. The best thing they could do is band together and do the right thing. Reform with single payer is the only real reform. Anything else is smoke and mirrors and will be used against them. IMO they are setting themselves up for disaster.

[regnaD kciN]

89. I refuse to get all worked up about "news" from the HuffPost...

...since they've been playing the Chicken Little act ("The Democrats will betray us again!!!!") on health-care for months now, sniffing out every little event that can possibly be interpreted as someone on the Democratic side backing down, and blowing it up into front-page headlines. All that's missing is the Drudge siren.

[MasonJar]

90. I hope that the Progressives in the House will not accept this and kill

any legislation. We are better off with nothing so we can come back in two or four years. Obama got big money from the health care industry, albeit not as much as Baucus. It is all relative, however. He's still a pawn. He has his Rahm and Rham's brother giving ill advice. And guess what! He chose them. He played this health care issue wrong from the outset. He should have come out for single payer and been a great president. He chose to just be another name. So be it. As usual the people are screwed. If Durbin has folded, it is probably over, folks. He's shooting the President's shots for him, softening us up. I just hope I never hear another disparaging word about the Clintins on this blog; they at least tried to change health care the right way. If Obama does not stand for a public option, he will not only not get any money from me, he will not get my vote. For all his duplicitous campaign rhetoric, Obama is no progressive. Never was, never will be. DUers, you were duped!!!!!!!!

[raging_moderate]

92. send him a message loud and clear

http://durbin.senate.gov/index.cfm

Let him know we will do our best to oust those who will not represent us

[mzmolly]

93. Mandates without a public option, is not doing something positive.

:grr:

[dflprincess]

137. Even with a public option, the bills put forth have been nothing but

a gift to the insurance companies. Without a public option, we're defintely better off if they don't pass anything. It's time to dig our heels in and demand Medicare for All.

(BTW, you may want to check out Franken's position on health care - it wasn't good when he was running and it's gotten worse lately. If I'd known how bad it would get, I might have voted for Barkely. Per the Strib Franken ranks #43 in donations from the health insurance industry.)

[pa28]

94. Surprise!

George Carlin was right . . . 98% of us are corporate livestock whether we like it or not.

[taggline]

95. SEE POST 79...

Verbatim!!

We are sooo fucked.

"I want to know what became of the changes we waited for (fill in the blank) to bring"...J. Browne

:wtf:

[irislake]

97. I feel sick for you

Most of your politicians are corrupt. Both parties. Canadians watch your battle with horror

[Joe Bacon]

110. All we hear is how you wait months for any care

I have a sister e-mailing me with alleged horror tales from her Canadian friends waiting months for surgery they need. They supposedly came to Pittsburgh to pay for care out of their own pockets that Canada denies them. You cannot argue with her, she's totally brainwashed between Fox and her preachers.

[kevinbgoode]

118. So just ask her why the Canadians haven't privitized their system

if they are all so horrified?

[Joe Bacon]

135. Her "Christian" Canadian friends want our system

She forwards e-mails of how they had to wait 12 months for cancer surgery and finally went to Pittsburgh to get the care they couldn't get. Their e-mails beg for our system and are filled with the "socialized medicine" bullshit.

[Enthusiast]

149. It is purely manufactured

misinformation.

But don't be surprised if there isn't a huge effort to dismantle public health care in Canada, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. Health care in these countries stand as an example of what can be done without slimy insurance/pharmaceutical industry dominance. Because these insurance and banking giants have the clout to pull it off.

Fascism, baby! It's just getting started.

[irislake]

140. It's political suicide for a Canadian politician of any party

to talk of privatizing our health care. They don't dare go there.

[MessiahRp]

122. Their "Canadian Friends"... Riiiiggghhhhttt.....

I don't think any of these Republicans have Canadian friends. Saying "Our Canadian Friends" is akin to saying "we have gay friends" as a way to justify their stance in discriminating against them in the gay marriage debate and are being bigots towards them. In this case they "know" Canadians who supposedly have these health care nightmares so they can justify their inhumane position. Reality is they made the story up. All of them are blatant fucking liars.

Rp

[irislake]

125. I am very happy with the care I get.

I am 70. Have had hip replacement, hysterectomy, and so on. Didn't have to wait long.
I live in the country now where sometimes there is a shortage of doctors. No problem because there are walk-in clinics. But we just got four new doctors here.

Last month a friend had breathing problems. Her doctor made her have tests. There were spots on her lung. He bugged her till she agreed to have biopsy. Cancer. He sent her to an oncologist that week. The oncologist arranged for her to have three tests in the week after her visit. Then within days she went back to him for results of tests. He said hadn't spread and booked her operation for five days after that. Not bad, eh? Huh? A five day wait?

Of course all the insults about our health care is all the buzz up here north of the border so all my friends are expressing gratitude for the care we get and no worries about paying for it.

My friend with the lung cancer said, "I'll bet they don't get any faster treatment in the states."

No -- I doubt it.

I can hardly bear to watch the private health care vultures in your country lie and lie and lie. What greed. They are so immoral. How can they sleep at night?

[Joe Bacon]

136. would you mind if I sent your comment to my sister?

She's closed her mind to the truth, but I'd like to reply with a real example.

[irislake]

143. I would be happy to write to your sister

or you can pass my comments on.

What province do her horribly treated poor sick and suffering Canadian friends live in? Each province has it's own health care system but they must all follow the guidelines laid down by the Canada health act.

We have to pay for some stuff. Plastic surgery for reasons of vanity, for example. Unless someone has a deformity. If I wanted a nose job or a boob job I would have to pay. That sort of thing.

Doesn't your sister care about those who aren't covered? Those who are insured but have to pay or are denied? If she's looking for real horror stories why doesn't she check out what's happening in her own country.

It's just common sense that a for-profit system will cost more and have more abuses. And the profits those insurance company CEOs make are mind-boggling. It's obscene. Just indefensible!

[Joe Bacon]

147. She claims they are from Toronto and waited months for care

I'm looking to see if I still have her e-mail I can cut and paste for you.

[irislake]

167. I lived in Toronto for more than 20 years.

Most of my friends live there. Lots of people wait for elective surgery for a few months but I have never heard of anybody having to wait long for cancer treatment.

I didn't have my hip done right away but the woman in the next bed had her operation within days after seeing a specialist because she was in pain and her hip had deteriorated so much. There are waits to see specialists but if the situation is urgent no.

Quote honestly I have never met ANYBODY who was highly critical of our health care and certainly nobody has ever wanted to swap with Americans.

I do know lots of seniors, me included, who take what our family doctors say with a huge grain of salt. My former doctor in Toronto was a sweetie pie but she was a true believer in every drug going. We all have computers and lots of time to research the drugs they prescribe. I refused to take VIOXX, some other stupid thing for acid reflux, a few other things. Every senior I know has ditched their statins. Lots of us lie to our family doctors if they want to argue with us. Take the prescription and just throw it away. Nobody thinks doctors are gods any more.

I should know I was married to an orthopaedic surgeon for 15 years. He fled to Texas after our divorce to avoid paying child support. After three triple heart by-passes, which his insurance wouldn't cover (using the pre-existing excuse)he returned to Canada so he would be covered for all further health care.

Well that's all water under the bridge now. My children are grown and have children and his sins are long forgiven. I never heard him ever recommend health care in your wonderful country to a single soul!

[Enthusiast]

150. "They are so immoral. How can they sleep at night?"

Although they do much of their damage under the cloak of Faux Christianity, like you said, they are immoral. When I say immoral, think of the very worst of the worst because that is what they are.

[flyarm]

141. Tell your sister..this is one American who lived in Canada for 22 years..and ..

I haven't met one Canadian who would be willing to give up their OHIP for our system! Not one!

Oh and I had a Canadian friend who had a cancerous Brain Tumor..who was in Princess Margaret Hospital, Toronto who was put in touch with John's Hopkins about the tumor and would they get any better results at JH..the head of John's Hopkins CANCER division told them the care at Princess Margaret is one of the best in the world! And not to leave there, as the care was no better at John's Hopkins!

Another friend in Toronto needed a Heart transplant and got it as soon as a heart became available, he lived for 4 years with that heart.
It is elective surgeries people wait for ..elective..

Last year in the states i had to have my lips operated on , the docs thought i had melanoma on my lips..I had to wait 2 months for the surgery because my insurance carrier took that long to approve the surgery!

[Enthusiast]

148. Be vigilant, friend to the North

These fascists/corporatists have the means to infect your system and it would be gone in a minute. This would leave us no where to escape to. No smiley face.

[and-justice-for-all]

100. Look Dick, The public option is something positive for the American people..nt

[MessiahRp]

106. Fucking cowards. Every last one of them. Unbelievable.

:grr:

[KoKo]

111. I'm going to be Optimistic here. ...For every one we EXPOSE we get a DIVIDEND!

:eyes: I know that's not much for hope...but I do believe that someday it will all work out...

[Enthusiast]

151. They play cowards.

They only play a coward on TV. Actually they are just greedy assholes, like a regular Republican.

[Serial Mom]

112. Co-ops will work to benefit the rich (who always want more & better)

and will keep the poor in worse programs, costing them more in the end or providing them less preventative care.

[Joey Liberal]

117. The republicans win again

Why are we Dems such pussies?

[Enthusiast]

152. I wonder if I care any longer.

"There isn't a dime's worth of difference."

I am actually starting to believe this.

[dgibby]

120. This is why we should have been insisting on single payer from the start.

By "we", I mean the Congressional Dems and Obama. I'm the worst negotiator in the world, and even I know you go in demanding the best, then wheel and deal until you get something decent you can live with. Had they done that,
the opposition would have been begging us to take a public option. MORANS! :banghead: :grr: :nuke:

[Dinger]

121. Anybody Want to Defend This?

60 votes my ass. Obama should bring these punks in and give them a little "advice."

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

123. and I'm open to dropping Durin

so there!

[Clear Blue Sky]

127. Correct me if I'm wrong but...

I thought we had majorities in both houses of Congress. Filibuster proof in the Senate. This should pass easily.

[earcandle]

130. except we have traitors in the party now and they won't give us what 35 other countries give their

people because they need our money for the genocide of third
world peoples, and we are next in line for that death cab as
well.
health care is anti-purpose for them.  how do we get rid of
these corrupt folks once and for all?  we must get more
organized.
be more willing to agree on the basics.  I am sure the doctors
would prefer to be in charge of their patients again, and make
more money through not having to pay the admin costs and
malpractice insurance and the policing of their records to see
if they
are charging too many of one code and not the other.  Come on
people.

I just got an opportunity to meet with my congress animal on
Monday the 10th through an email program send out.  Make those
appointments and sign up.  If you didn't get one of those
emails let me know and I will forward you mine.

[Clear Blue Sky]

131. Vote the bastards out...

[Enthusiast]

153. You are receiving a little dose

of reality. Apparently they believe thinking Democrats to be some sort of fringe. They must have concluded that they no longer need our support, Obama included.

[ohio2007]

132. If everybody is so upset , why is it a bad idea to take it to a town hall meeting and voice concern

People worried they will be labeled a rethug sounding off in a civil disobedient way ?

[kcpistol]

133. Reconciliation

Lets go for it - if we don't get this done we will be voted out as failures anyway!

[New Dawn]

144. No 'public option' = fascist economics. Here is why...

Without the 'public option', this new law will just be forcing us to buy a product from private, for-profit, companies. That is fascist economics!

[Enthusiast]

154. No better than Bush's medicare plan.

Just another give away to mega-corps. This country is in serious trouble, worse than I thought.

[mother earth]

155. If public option dies, so does any hope of reform, and any

hope of honesty in gov't.

[tinkerbell41]

156. Asshole

I wrote a letter to this asshole,Durbin, to voice my support of a public option. He did reply, a form letter, in his reply he stated he was looking for Bi-Partisanship. I replied back "I didn't vote for bi-partisanship." I guess he didn't care.
I am soo sick of the Party "wanting to make friends" I wish ALL voters would just sit the next election out and let them wonder what the fuck happened. This has really become a joke we only have a few holding office right now that have any balls, and really it's not balls it's doing the bidding
of the people who cast their ballot.

[LibDemAlways]

158. It looks like what will emerge from this is a weak bill mandating a

few changes in the way ins. companies do business. Some of those 47 million uninsured Americans may then be able to purchase insurance from these crooks, but not nearly enough to get the job done. It's a sham.

[AllyCat]

159. Man oh man I have just lost all faith in this system

If we had an actual system of government that was anything like what the Framers conceived, it would be great. But instead, we have this corporatocracy that gives us the illusion of "choice" and "change" only to charge us more and more to give them our money. Or if they have to steal it, it will cost us even more.

[SandWalker1984]

166. Watered down, mandatory PRIVATE insurance is NOT reform!

Bipartisan Translation: Real health care reform is screwed!

There are 2 excellent articles about what is going on:
Business Week - The Health Insurers Have Already Won
The Nation - Obama's $80 Billion Deal with Pharma Is a Very Bad Deal for Us


The message is becoming clear that many Democrats are getting bought off by the corporate health insurance lobbyists, any meaningful health care reform is fast becoming a fantasy.

Obama promised several times during the campaign that there would not be a MANDATE to buy health insurance in his plan. He made it clear. That's why the momentum went towards him and away from Hillary Clinton's mandate insurance plan.

Now ALL plans being discussed conveniently include a mandate for ALL Americans to buy health insurance. Obama recently said he would support a mandate. Another broken promise!

We are not going to get meaningful health care reform that we were promised.

Obama has caved to the insurance companies, as have the Democrats.

I predict what they will finally produce as "reform" will be a Massachusetts type system, where everyone is forced to get PRIVATE INSURANCE or pay a penalty, ie TAX. Because it is not real reform, insurance companies will raise the rates as usual, making big profits. The government option will end up being a weak, useless public plan in name only option - one the health insurance CEOs will love and control.

Co-ops are a joke. We've had that in Florida and what happened is the insurance companies pieced them off and made them basically useless. Right now, if you are over 50 in a co-op in FL, plan to pay $17,000+ per year for 2 people. It's not affordable!

I'd rather see the reform bills get killed altogether than to give the big corporations a gift basket filled with mandated customers so the CEO's can give themselves even bigger bonuses.

Shafted again, and by our own party this time. THAT really hurts!

[valerief]

163. I hope his constituents are open to dropping him. nt