Why do rural area tend to be more conservative than urban areas?

[raccoon]

There must be some scientific explanation.

[ingac70]

1. More products of incest.

:sarcasm:

[mitchtv]

2. one thing at least

people who live in closer quarters find that life is easier with a live and let live attitude, which leads to a more liberal social idea. a small point maybe , but I think valid.Add to that competition leading to more education.

[scheming daemons]

3. Lower education levels.......

....and living in homogenous areas, they have a fear of "the other".


People in heterogenous areas... like cities... have more acceptance of those that are "different" than themselves, because they are surrounded by them every day.

[Spike89]

5. Bingo! Probably some more minor reasons, but you nailed it. n/t

[vadawg]

11. then how do you explain the liberal inner cities where the education level is abysmal

i think as others have stated its due to the history of the rural areas and the fact that the church is the center of their community, i know the churches in my area are the big social centers, they run the camps, the bbq, the fundraising etc etc, so people tend to be real close to their church and its teachings. Personally i have lived inthe city and you can keep it, with all its faults the rural life suits me fine..

[Dramarama]

29. What I was going to say

[Joe Fields]

110. I, too can speak from experience, and my experience is that , by and large,

with exceptions, of course, rural people are clannish, fearful of strangers,(or wary), afraid of change, afraid of new ideas, and are generally too busy to worry about politics, unless it's local politics.

Why is this? In rural areas, importance is placed on work, not on education.

[Yupster]

117. I think guns are also a part of it

If you live 30 miles from the nearest police station, calling 911 isn't an adequate defense for your family. If you live in New York City, a gun isn't nearly as necessary as you're never more than three blocks away from a cop.

People living off by themselves don't want the government in their lives. They want to be left alone. People living in crowded cities want the government to organize the chaos.

It only makes sense to me.

Speed limits are another example.

[DBoon]

15. city folks rely more on public services

transportation, police, fire, schools, parks, other recreation

City folk implicitly understand that collective contributions to shared services makes their standard of living possible

[vadawg]

21. rural folk are more self reliant, we volunteer to fight the fires in our community

if we dont actively police our neighbourhoods we realise that the nearest deputy could be an hour away so we are willing to pick up our shotgun and protect ourselves and land. Parks, we dont need parks we have our yards, the community is just different inrural areas, i dont get in my neighbours business but i know all their business and vice versa, when they need help it arrives without them having to call anyone or go asking some government worker for help, the mindset is totally different in many ways, we spend our time fishing, hunting, cooking out, sitting on the porch that some think we should be spending watching TV or online, we live at a different pace and i feel we are better for it..

[Ron Green]

39. Did you forget the "sarcasm" smiley, or are you really stuck in that nostalgic horseshit?

I grew up in the country, probably long before you did, and I know that all that "mistrust of government" talk comes mostly from ignorance of who's really running the government rather than from magical relationships among all the rustic yet wise rural neighbors with hearts of gold.

[vadawg]

56. mayby you did grow up in the country but you missed the point

in the country and real rural areas its nothing to do with mistrust of the government, its the fact that the local government never mind the feds is far away, when you need help your neighbours are the ones who responf first whether thats the local volunteer fire dept, or the local rotary or church,

[Ron Green]

62. Maybe my answer was more to why rural areas tend to vote Republican, rather

than why they're "conservative." The OP was pretty vague that way, and my answer responded to the "don't trust 'em" issue. I agree with you that people in the country and in very small towns tend to operate without much direct connection to agencies, and often take care of each other in a voluntary way. It just pisses me off that so many of the Democratic areas I knew as a child in the South are now strongly Republican, and it's mostly because of racism.

[Fla_Democrat]

41. so true

i dont get in my neighbours business but i know all their business and vice versa,

Reminds me of the local saying... Everyone knows what everyone else is doing.... we just read the paper to see if they got caught. :evilgrin:

[Maru Kitteh]

94. As a rural person in one of the MOST rural states, you lost me here:

"when they need help it arrives without them having to call anyone or go asking some government worker for help,"

Bullshit. Does this fantasy feature Gregory Peck in a pair of overalls? There is a reason why rural areas routinely draw more in aid such as food stamps, WIC, TANF and other family services per capita than less rural and metropolitan areas. Because the poverty rates are greater, and they DO go asking some government worker for help, as they SHOULD.

[beevul]

105. Bingo! Spot on.

Couldn't have said it better myself.


I have lived in the city. Never again. Fine for those that enjoy it, but I didn't.

Not enough elbow room, which covers a myriad of things...


Room for the dogs to run, enjoying the peace and quiet of the outdoors, privacy, and on and on and on.


Likewise, I too feel we are better for it.

[tabasco]

162. Nope.

Just a lot more stupid motherfuckers out here.

I bet it chaps your ass that Andy Griffith is a liberal.

[greguganus]

178. Country folks can surviiiiiiive...n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

25. Rural economies are dependent on government agriculture subsidies

But I would imagine that they don't realize that in many cases.

[tabasco]

164. My very rural county would FOLD if it were not for federal dollars.

I LMAO at the "self-reliant" crowd of leeches.

[Xenotime]

184. Self reliance is over-rated.

[cali]

uh, I livein one of the whitest area of the whitest state

It's poor and white and this area went for Jackson. It went overwhelmingly for Obama. In fact, VT is one of the most liberal states in the country. Care to explain that?

[raccoon]

130. Are you responding to someone else? I didn't mention race nor SES. nt

[PVnRT]

24. Which candidate did Iowa go for again?

I can't seem to remember.

[Critters2]

36. Exactly. Iowa is purple at worst, and even the Repugs I know there aren't

the crazy Religious Right kinds (many were members of my church--by far the most liberal church in 3 counties). They vote Repug because they've always voted Repug.

The issue in the western part of the state, where Steve King is, imo, is because that part of the state is populated with conservative churches, most notably Dutch Reformed. Every Iowan I know is embarrassed by him.

[movonne]

28. I also believe rush limpball has something to do with this...when

I moved from LA to a rural area all we could get on the radio was rush,religion and cowboy music...

[barbiegeek]

52. Exactly Rush is everywhere, plus the Rethug are loud mouths and dems don't speak up

[LWolf]

145. Living, and teaching, rurally, I think this is true.

I see more anti-intellectualism, less literacy, and more suspicion of anything "different" from the homogeneous community.

Of course, if Democrats and liberals cared enough to educate themselves on rural issues, instead of assuming that urban solutions are right for all, we'd get more buy-in. This is also a factor. Rural areas have plenty of right-wing fundies. We also have a lot of libertarians, or libertarian-minded people.

My rural area voted Obama last November.

[H2O Man]

197. Interesting.

And likely true to an extent. However, I live in one of the most rural, conservative counties in upstate NY. For many years, we had the highest percentage of residents with PhD's in the state. And, from my experiences in local politics, they accounted for a high percentage of the very conservative republican "leadership" here.

[HughBeaumont]

4. You think in the world you see.

Too many of these small towns generally have racism, fear and hatred of the unfamiliar and homophobia. The more insular you are, the more closed-mined your worldview is going to become. It wasn't until I went to college in Cleveland (and then started going to bigger cities in Canada and the US) that I was exposed to a whole new world of concerts, different races, ethnicities, characters, food, clothing, etc. It was a shock to my system.

Most freepers never venture 25 miles out of their hovels. The mall or the local WalMart is about as "urban" as they get.

[cali]

6. here's my guess: people in rural areas are more connected to the past

and to the history of place where they live. Having said that, I live in a very rural area that's more liberal by most measures than the majority of urban areas.

[TxRider]

7. More of a tradition and ideology

Of self reliance.

As well as traditionally the church being the social center of their society.

Many are quite socially liberal, just very economically conservative.

[atreides1]

19. I question this

"Many are quite socially liberal,"

They may be that way in familiar surroundings with people they know, but does this "liberal" feeling extend to outsiders?

[Critters2]

70. Ask Obama how that feeling was extended to him by Iowa.

Asshat.

[TxRider]

91. Sure it does

More than in urban areas in my experience.

Remember rural people have no water unless they drill a well, no sewer unless they make it, no police/ambulance they can depend on getting their quickly..

They all tend to know each other and rely on others personally and individually a lot more, and depend less on government which seems more distant.

A lot more rural people would invite a total stranger in and give them a meal than urban folks I would bet.

[treestar]

136. I get the concept of being able to rely on each other and not needing as

much government, but then, why don't they allow that the cities are different and might need more? That seems to be ignorance, and refusal to learn or understand the lives of others.

A city is a city and maybe it would be better if they understood it was not like a rural area and had different needs and that maybe the libruls are a result of that.

The country needs both.

[Arugula Latte]

8. Partly self-selecting -- White people who are afraid of brown people

tend to move to areas where there are few brown people (except maybe for Mexicans to pick their crops :eyes: ). The fear is self-perpetuating and passed down to rural children. Also -- small towns often have little to offer in terms of entertainment, so church is bigger, which tends to increases ignorance.

[cali]

23. then explain Vermont. please explain why the most liberal, whitest

and least religious state isn't as you describe.

[Arugula Latte]

26. Yeah -- I know. I said "partly."

It's one factor in many areas, I believe. Doesn't apply to all.

There was a study done about racism and demographics during the last election. It was pretty interesting about what percentages of white/non-white populations tended to lead to more white racism. I'll have to look for it.

[Yupster]

118. I thought Vermnot was very liberal because

so many people from Massachussets moved there.

Vermont voting Democratic is a very recent change. Let's look at the classic "close elections"
In 1948 Vermont voted for Dewey over Truman 62-37 %
In 1960 Vermont voted for Nixon over Kennedy 59-41 %
In 1968 Vermont voted for Nixon over Humphrey 52-43 %
In 1976 Vermont voted for Ford over Carter 49-48 %
In 1988 Vermont voted for Bush over Dukakis 51-48 %

Here's a good one. In 1932, Vermont supported Hoover for reelection over FDR.

It was only with the 1990's that Vermont became a Democratic state.

[cali]

124. and you'd be wrong. Even when VT voted repub- and that's until the seventies

you have to understand who was elected- Aiken, who said let's declare victory and get the hell out of Vietnam, Prouty, Jeffords, etc. As for VT only becoming a dem state in the nineties that's fucking absurd. I've lived here since 1981. Pat Leahy was already in the Senate. I know this state. I know its history. You don't. And it's clear you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, honey.

[orleans]

121. there was something magical about vt when i drove through it on the way

to canada years ago. i remember, after i came home--to illinois--i said to my parents: let's move to vermont, we have to move there, it's amazing....they looked at me like i lost my mind (excuses about all the hills and snow!like we don't have snow around chicago?)

never moved there--but never forgot how wonderful i thought it was along w/ the people i met there.

anyway--didn't mean to hijack thread--just wanted to say...

[Critters2]

68. The rural areas where I've served were mostly made up of people

whose families had been there for a century or more. They didn't MOVE anywhere. They were born there.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

9. I think people in rural areas have developed more

of a sense of individualism and self dependancy. People who live inner city develop a more complex social network and tend to rely on that network moreso than self-sustainability.

Likewise, people who are conservattive may likely be drawn to the idea of living in a more self-dependant locale, whereas people requiring a social network will grvitate towards the urban settings.

[southernyankeebelle]

10. I LIVE IN A RURAL AREA IN TN AM NOT CLOSED MINDED -

I MOVED HERE ABOUT 15 YRS AGO. THESE PEOPLE MEAN WELL BUT MANY LIVE A SHELTERED LIFE TO A POINT. I WAS LUCKY TO TRAVEL THE WORLD AND SEE DIFFERENT PLACES AND LIVE IN DIFFERENT PLACES. BUT NOT ALL OF US ARE CLOSED MINDED. ONE OBSERVATION I HAVE NOTICED THAT SOME PEOPLE STILL REMEMBER THE CIVIL WAR. I THINK THAT IS SOME OF THE REACTION WE ARE SEEING. OBAMA IS JUST A SYSTEM.

[Hav]

17. woah

Was that a joke? If not, you didn't really help your case there. :)
I also don't get "Obama is just a system"...

[Walk away]

18. When I was in my twenties I dated the nicest man in the world who..

came from rural Tennessee. He expressed some backward ideas but in his real life living and working in N.Y.C. he was a kind and giving person who had deep friendships with people of every race, sexual preference and belief. He eventually became a dedicated supporter of the Green Party.

It was amazing how quickly he shed his old prejudices and fears when he was exposed to a better way.

[Roon]

157. I know a lot of people will disagree with me

but a true southerners don't have problems with other racists and gays..I have met a lot of southerners when I drove truck.

[FSogol]

27. I think your CAPS LOCK key is broken. What does Obama is a system mean?

IMO, Rural areas tend to be static and urban areas are dynamic.

[Maru Kitteh]

98. 1.) Lose the Caps Lock. 2.) You know people who are 145+ years old?

Do you happen to know anybody who remembers the Shay's Rebellion?

[orleans]

122. lol. n/t

[Kalyke]

12. Less news choices.

Most of what the rural areas get is conservative news talk radio.

It has nothing to do with education or intelligence or potential. It's the over-exposure to NOTHING but one point of view.

[havocmom]

114. BINGO!

That is a biggy where I live.

[ejpoeta]

13. people in rural areas have less access to the internet probably are not

as educated as others may be and may listen to a lot of talk radio. I could be wrong, but I know that we are the last house on the road with access to roadrunner, and we aren't that rural... without roadrunner we would be relegated to dial up and therefore have less access to video clips online etc. my dad LOVED rush limbaugh and he had dial up too. I don't know what he thought about much... but he seemed to think racist jokes were funny and things like that. though i don't really think he was racist... he would help anyone who needed help. but he was born in 1938 and was raised with a different attitude towards things, i guess.

[Critters2]

38. The first people I knew with internet access were farmers.

They had a program called "Farm Dayta", which the rest of us found just amazing, because we had never seen computers on a network like that.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[ejpoeta]

82. oh ok. whatever. i DO know what i am talking about.

[Sapphocrat]

Anyone who thinks racist jokes are funny is a racist.

And "raised that way" or any similar excuse is just an excuse, and a very poor one at that -- as well as an insult: i.e., "raised that way" = "My parents raised me better than your parents raised you."

FYI, my father was born in 1919, and grew up picking prunes for 1/2c a pound, alongside the itinerant farmhands. Poor as dirt. Not a racist. Not a conservative. Not an asshole.

[ejpoeta]

131. i never agreed with anything my father said. and i don't mean to imply that

it was ok because he was raised that way or anything else.... i meant it in the sense that i did not talk back to my father and when he would say those things i rolled my eyes and felt uncomfortable, but i ignore it and just change the subject. My dad was not an asshole either. He was a great guy who would give anyone the shirt off his back. he thought he was funny.... his sense of humor was not funny. He aimed it at anyone, including me. But yes, I will 'excuse' it because sometimes that is what you have to do because there is no point in trying to argue with someone.

[Sapphocrat]

147. If there were no point in arguing, DU would shut down. LOL

There's always hope, at least in one's family. We finally guilted my dad out over hunting (i.e., stalking and killing Bambi for sheer "sport") after he'd spent his entire life hunting. The last time out with "the guys," he deliberately missed his shot on a three-point buck. He just couldn't do it.

So there's hope, when it comes from one's own kids. Keep working on him.

[newportdadde]

14. Lot of it is lack of good news information.

Growing up on a farm in rural Missouri my county started out heavily Democratic actually then in the 90s things changed. First thing I experienced was all of the AM stations I could pick up on an old tractor radio where conservative or sports talk. If I wanted news it was going to come from Rush.

The second thing I noticed was that a lot of people from the city were moving down into the rural areas. They would buy up small tracks of 40 acres lets say for large money, this resulted in two things. First farmers got resentful of city people coming in and outbiding them on land, they couldn't keep up as farming pays little. Second the people moving into these rural areas from the city were almost always Republican, they had money and were moving away from perceived threats from the city, the suburbs were not far enough away for them.

[DBoon]

20. your last sentence is key

Wealthy people who are intolerant of diversity and fearful of "the others" are the core of the right wing

[prostomulgus]

16. The important point is that they are decreasing.

There's fewer of them every day, especially relative to the growing urban areas. They are of decreasing relevance and can be safely ignored from now on.

[Bill McBlueState]

133. I'm not sure they can be ignored

We have a Constitution that hands way too much power to virtually unpopulated tracts of land.

[seafan]

22. I've wondered about this as well. What I think is that people in rural areas

...spend a lot of time in their cars, relative to those in urban areas.

Rural folks must drive longer distances for groceries, medical care, schooling, errands, supplies, for employment, etc. Many listen to radio in their cars on these everyday trips. Who, but the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Dr. Laura, O'Reilly, ooze out of the radio. Progressive radio stations are extremely few and far between and certainly not available in many conservative areas.


The effect of this day-in and day-out exposure to these right-wing extremist radio programs, these rural residents are steeped in right-wing propaganda and outright lies and incitement to view others not like themselves as deserving of hatred. Sadly, there is little chance of escape, and the indoctrination continues.

It's easy to see why it is so difficult to establish strong-signaled progressive radio--- the Deep-Pocketed Ones see it as a threat to The (ignorant and hate-filled) Conservative Agenda.



Hate radio, especially in the more isolated rural areas, is as damaging to people, their children and their lives as crack cocaine.



But all of this is just my opinion.

[musiclawyer]

33. I live in a rural area.

Very simple. 1. Older demographic = GOPers for the most part
2. Saturation with right wing media and little or no access to media

I personally think that no fairness doctrine is a menace tro democracy.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Critters2]

40. Thanks for confirming that not all assholes are rural. nt

[MoreLibThanU]

44. No, there are urban Republicans too.

[rucky]

48. If Uncle Dad heard you saying that

he'd whoop your ass.

[Maeve]

61. 'S okay, a mod did that already eom

[Ex Lurker]

64. what an ass you are n/t

[greguganus]

179. Damn, I always miss the asinine posts before they are deleted! n/t

[meow2u3]

31. Their livelihoods depend on strict order and police are too far to respond quickly

...to crimes in progress. That's the main reason so many rural residents are conservative, at least on the gun issue; in addition, hunting is not just a "sport", but a way of putting food on the family's table. Cops are too far away to respond to crimes in progress, so rural homeowners feel the need to arm themselves to protect their family and property from attacks from wild animals, on two legs or four.

Besides, on farms and ranches, there are many chores that must be done in order to keep up the business, and that often means the head of the household has to keep a tight ship to keep from going under.

[vadawg]

58. to right, were i live it can be 40 mins to an hour before police respond and thats in the summer

in the winter forget about it, everyone of my neighbours hunts and has guns for protection from local wildlife and two legged varmints. People who live in the urban areas might see no reason for someone to own a gun but wait until you see the damage done to crops by cute wildlife. not to mention rabid animals or animals attacking livestock..

[beevul]

106. hahaha. It goes even farther than that.

"in the winter forget about it"

Hell, after a good days rain, FORGET about it.

"animals attacking livestock.."

Yeah, or the ones that like to go after the pomeranian members of my family.

Coyotes can be very bold critters.

[treestar]

138. I can get how they feel about the guns

The question is why can't so many of them get it that when it comes to urban areas it is another question? Or why so few of them can?

Maybe gun control should be handled on a local basis. So rural areas can do what they need to do and cities the same.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[The Straight Story]

34. They are more used to being self sufficient and not needing help

Generations helping each other with land, jobs (farming, small businesses, etc).

[Bill McBlueState]

134. What about farm subsidies?

Rural states get more from the federal government than they give. There's an illusion of self-sufficiency, but it's just that.

[cornermouse]

165. That's not accurate.

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/progdetail.php?fips=00000&yr=2006&progcode=total&page=conc
alternative link if the first doesn't work and wander around
http://farm.ewg.org/farm/index.php?key=nosign

Statistics show the top 10% got 62% of the farm subsidy funds in 2006.

2007 press release
http://farm.ewg.org/farm/dp_release.php

[LiberalEsto]

35. Farm pesticides?

Overexposure to Mountain Dew?

[CanonRay]

37. All they can get on the radio is Rush

Ever driven through Kansas and tried the stations?

[defendandprotect]

42. More Bibbles . . . less reality ...

[Hekate]

88. Don't dribble on your bibble...

It's hard to get the stains out. :eyes:

Hekate

[ThomWV]

43. In the country you see a lot less of the benefits of Government but you pay the price

First off many of the benefits of Government don't make much of an appearance. We don't have things like municipal water or sewage, or public transportation. Police service is lacking in most places and very slow to respond when needed as is service from fire departments. Oh, and for the most part our roads suck too - with repairs a lot slower to come than in more populous areas. Now maybe that is as it should be, but it still doesn't make friends among those who believe - and traditionally not without cause - that Democrats are more likely to spend than Republicans. Then there are the larger acreages you find in the country which means land taxes that are constantly rising - to support those services that we don't see. You might pay taxes on a quarter acre, I pay them on 100 acres and the rates aren't that much different.

So you see the problem, out here it looks like taxation without representation, a problem that is only compounded if you have liberal tendencies.

[Caliman73]

54. Thanks for that perspective.

That seems valid. I remember during the election where Obama made that statement about people in rural Pennsylvania being "bitter and clinging to their religion and guns". People were upset and the right wing pundits were all over that statement. I made a statement on DU that some people did not like, where I saw what he said in a different context similar to what you are explaining. When the politicians and the government promise to help the people by helping with job creation and assistance with infrastructure, they are usually focused on the urban centers. People in rural communities are not part of that economic assistance program and yet they still pay taxes, they send their children to serve in the military, they participate in various ways in the political process, yet they don't see all the benefits that the urban areas do in terms of needed services. That would make people upset and distrustful of government and urban people. Conservatives tend to prey on that distrust in order to form blocs of voters who will support their agenda by claiming that the "elites" or the government or city folk want to encroach on your rights, or challenge your beliefs. If you actually see part of it in action through increased taxes on services that you don't benefit from, that could explain how people can become more passionate about espousing conservative ideas.

[Xithras]

87. Yep. You're the first person who's gor it right so far.

I live in a rural area. The road in front of my house hasn't been paved in 20 years, I pump my own water, process my own sewage (septic), and deal with crime myself since the police are 30-45 minutes away. Public transportation? Doesn't exist here. Public schools? Crappy and far away. Welfare? Hardly exists here, since most people on welfare can't survive in rural areas because of lack of services. Street lights? Don't make me laugh.

Rural dwellers pay the same taxes as urban dwellers, but see few of the benefits. That generates a lot of resentment over time, as my neighbors begin to wonder what all that money is being spent on. It's being taken away from them, and given to others, with no benefit back to the payers. Liberals in urban areas typically don't mind paying taxes because they see the fruits of those taxes every single day when they walk out their front doors, head to work, or simply travel across town. Urbanites see the benefit of their tax dollars right away. Rural dwellers can go for months without using any actively funded public services, because they don't exist where they live. Over time, that generates a lot of resentment.

Here on DU I'm considered a moderate. Talk to my neighbors and they'll all tell you I'm a flaming liberal lefty on the fast train to hell. My perspectives differ from my neighbors only because I lived and worked in the SF Bay Area for years, which opened my eyes to reality.

[Bill McBlueState]

135. rural states get a lot of subsidies

These are the top 25 states in terms of federal tax dollars received per dollar contributed. Overwhelmingly rural. Someone has to be benefiting from all this government support.

New Mexico $2.03
Mississippi $2.02
Alaska $1.84
Louisiana $1.78
West Virginia $1.76
North Dakota $1.68
Alabama $1.66
South Dakota $1.53
Kentucky $1.51
Virginia $1.51
Montana $1.47
Hawaii $1.44
Maine $1.41
Arkansas $1.41
Oklahoma $1.36
South Carolina $1.35
Missouri $1.32
Maryland $1.30
Tennessee $1.27
Idaho $1.21
Arizona $1.19
Kansas $1.12
Wyoming $1.11
Iowa $1.10
Nebraska $1.10

[treestar]

140. True, Xithras makes a good point though - they don't "see" it

It is in forms that they take for granted.

And they have trouble imagining that they do contribute less in taxes, simply being fewer in number. Big cities have a lot of people. But if you don't "see" that it can seem to them like their $$ is being taken to give to those in cities, when it is really the other way round.

[ThomWV]

151. Don't let those numbers fool you - the results do not show up in rural areas

First thing you have to realize is those numbers are dollars returned to the states for dollar sent to the IRS, but we don't send in all that much in the first place because most of those states, and certainly this one, are relatively poor. So the overall pot of money isn't as large as the relative percentages might lead one to believe. Then there is the distribution of the funds within the states - and those dollars go overwhelmingly to the cities (we do have cities you know) rather than the rural areas of the states involved. Add to that the higher cost of providing services to remote areas; did you know that West Virginia has the highest cost per mile for road construction or repair in the nation, being almost 3x the national average?

So yes, relative to funds out we see more federal money return to the state than some, but it doesn't spread evenly across the landscape and remains nearly invisible in rural areas. It is no wonder that there is so much discontent at taxes, a favorite call to arms for the Republicans.

[PVnRT]

175. Yes, the giant agribusiness conglomerates in those states

They benefit mightily from those subsidies.

However, "tax dollars received" is not equivalent to "subsidies."

[ThomWV]

185. 24 Farmers in my County get subsidies, just 24.

I looked at some website that showed the names of each recipient state by state, county by county, and was surprised how few farmers in our state participate in any of the subsidy programs. Dairy farm operation mostly. Anyhow; Part of the point that I really didn't make above is this, when money does come to the poor states it is in relatively small amounts despite the high multiple because we are poor and pay in relatively less in the first place but what is more important is that just one or two much needed projects that serves one of our towns (say an Interstate interchange or two, maybe a couple of bridges) and it blows the entire wad for the state. Yes, it is good that the state benefits, but those of us in far-flung places simply don't see that benefit personally. Over the years it tells.

[moondust]

45. Progress/Change/Third Wave has not been good to them.

Kids moving off to the city where the jobs are increasingly to be found. Thus a loss of political clout. Corporate farming/loss of family farms. Increasing competition from abroad thanks to globalization. Conservatism is the natural enemy of change.

[Caliman73]

46. My thoughts

I grew up in the city and suburbs of Los Angeles so my opinion may not carry too much weight. My family however, has grown up in rural areas of both Mexico and the US so I often get a taste of what might be shaping their world views. It is about experiences and lifestyle. People who tend to stay in rural communities tend to live in homogeneous groups with similar experiences. They are usually self reliant or at most, reliant on their small communities as opposed to people who live in larger urban areas who are reliant on private and public services for their livelihoods.

When you are not exposed to a wide array of lifestyles and cultures, you tend to develop a more conservative approach to life. You live in a comfort zone of ideas and beliefs that are rarely challenged. You tend to see people from outside your community with caution and distrust, especially if they challenge the assumptions upon which you have centered your world. That is the conservative mindset. They seek to preserve a narrow set of traditions. Not that urban people are inherently open minded and accepting, they just tend to have much more exposure to different people and different customs and usually have to interact with people who may be very different in their style of dress, mannerisms, and traditions. Urban people do this on an almost daily basis, thus they tend to start accepting the differences as a norm more readily than a rural person who does not have exposure to those differences.

There are probably sociological studies out there that can give some more researched insight into your observation.

[defendandprotect]

92. Very interesting comments . . .

And because you are aware of both worlds, what is the impact of organized patriarchal

religion on all of this -- if any?

What about the wars? Do they recognize war-mongering by the right?
Or are they still in a frame of mind that the "The Commies are coming!" -- ?

Also, do they recognize the fascist overtones -- the underlying violence and intimidation --
of these health care confrontations?

Are these people who are on the internet or still dependent upon corporate press for their news?

In fact, has the internet had any impact/influence on them at all??

Do they understand, for instance, the human rights connections to the homosexual push for full
equality, for gay marriage?

[Caliman73]

149. Replying only for my family's experience....

what is the impact of organized patriarchal religion on all of this -- if any?

I would have to say that the family I have in the more rural areas practice much more than those of us who live in the city. Religion is kind of a double edged sword in this respect. In my experience it really depends on the message they are getting from the priest and what you take in. I have an aunt who lives in a more rural part of Mexico, who has really pushed acceptance and social justice as stated in the Beatitudes. She and her family literally work to clothe the naked, feed the poor, etc... and they don't seem to pass judgment on drug users, gay people, etc... Then there are others in my family who I try not to get into too much conversation with because it turns to "hellfire and damnation".

What about the wars? Do they recognize war-mongering by the right? Or are they still in a frame of mind that the "The Commies are coming!" -- ?

I would have to say that those of my family who are in the rural areas tend to be more "patriotic" and seem to be swayed more by the idea that "We would not be over there unless we needed to be" which I find puzzling.

Also, do they recognize the fascist overtones -- the underlying violence and intimidation --
of these health care confrontations?

This one I can't really answer as I haven't had as much recent contact with my extended family.

Are these people who are on the internet or still dependent upon corporate press for their news?
In fact, has the internet had any impact/influence on them at all??

Most of my family, except for the older ones are on the internet. Let's put it this way. You can find views that coincide with your own anywhere on the internet. I receive religious emails from some of my family which I usually look at and then delete, or if there is something I disagree with I will respond. Same with conservative viewpoints. I have yet to convert anyone.

Do they understand, for instance, the human rights connections to the homosexual push for full
equality, for gay marriage?

I think this one coincides more with how religious and what message they are taking from it as I stated in the first question. There are some from my rural living family who take the concept of social justice very seriously, and there are those of my urban dwelling family who are convinced the homosexuality is "unnatural" or who "love the sinner, but hate the sin", so that one is not necessarily a function of where they live as much as what messages they are taking in and holding.

[defendandprotect]

160. Thank you for the info --

:)

[rucky]

47. Less diversity. More churches. Less understanding of urban issues.

[Ex Lurker]

65. a lot of good thoughts on this thread. Also a lot of assholery

by urbanites, who make snide remarks such as these, and then STILL can't figure out why rural folk don't much like them and the things they represent. Who are the ignorant ones again?

[rucky]

72. I live in a town of 12,000.

not sure what the assholery is. there is less diversity, more churches per capita, and no concern about urban issues. those are factors that explain why people in my community vote for Boehner year after year (speaking of assholery)

[Ex Lurker]

74. sorry, my reply should have gone under the OP

don't know why it ended up under yours. I was talking about the incest jokes and all the other crap on this thread. Stuff that wouldn't be tolerated in talking about any other group.

I am curious about your reference to urban issues, as if they are by definition more important, and that rural people should be more concerned about them than their own circumstances. I find that odd.

[Critters2]

79. A city of 12,000 in Ohio isn't rural. You live in an exurb.

And suburbs and exurbs are the real conservative areas--not rural areas.

[havocmom]

115. 12,000 in Montana is a town or small city

rural is 1000 or less ;)

[Yupster]

119. You're right, the assholability quotient

has really gotten high lately.

Ask a question like I really want to know why Republicans are against House Bill blah blah blah ..... and the first 10 responses will be "because they're braindead," "because Rush told them to," "because they're interbred," "because they don't like having an African-American as President."

I guess people think they're being funny, and maybe it was funny the first 200 times.

[treestar]

144. Don't be so sensitive

You can contribute without martyrdom. It's not as if the reverse never happens, either.

[Peacetrain]

49. Well Water

:shrug: :)

[Toucano]

50. Edyucashen.

Simpul.

[LWolf]

186. Ah, well. At least my rural students outspell you. nt

[cali]

193. Vermont is one of the best educated states in the country. duh.

[ohheckyeah]

51. Isolation.

they tend to not people outside of their circle of friends, co-workers and fellow church members. People who are different are scary. And life is simple in a rural area, change comes slow. New ideas are thus scary.

[unpossibles]

53. a combination of things

As someone who has lived in both very rural and very urban areas, I feel like I've seen the pros and cons of both.

For one thing, right or left, many people in rural areas are just a lot more interested (/hung up on) tradition, which can lead to a conservative mindset. Again, this even includes friends and family who live in rural areas and are liberal but still somewhat conservative in many ways. Part of this may be due to the idea that people lived with extended family more often in the country than in the city; I know in my family there was a strong sense of the "patriarch of the family" kind of crap which you were not allowed to question, and that each successive generation tended to get a bit more liberal, especially as they got away from that.

I think someone else had a good point that while rural areas are still very much helped out by government assistance in a variety of ways, it's less visible. There's a stronger sense of individualism there than in a city where you can literally see the benefits of your buying into society in the form of taxation, etc.

Part of it may in fact be lingering distrust from the civil war and civil rights eras. Part of it may be education, but I think that exposure to diversity of people is the most important part of that education. I know that when I moved to more urban areas, I actually met more people from other nations, more varieties of sexual orientation, and just more people in general. While some manage to stay (or become...) racist/sexist/homophobic in those situations, I find it's more common to realize that we're all people and all share similarities along with the obvious differences.

All of that said, I also think that the idea of rural areas being Republican is outdated and false. Even though people have been taught to fear the word Liberal and may consider themselves Republican, a lot of that seems based on misinformation. I personally know many good people who when asked about specific issues can be quite liberal, but who are Republicans because of guns or abortion or what have you.


As for that misinformation, I often find myself musing on that: if the GOP were really so confident that they had all of the answers, then why do they feel the need to lie to people so often? Seriously. It shows that they know they are full of shit. Now if we could just get their audiences to realize it too, and I think we're slowly getting there. The Teabaggers, townhallers, and birthers (all one group, really) are not numerous, just really loud and obnoxious.

[cynatnite]

55. You should have asked why rich people were more conservative than poor ones. n/t

[Critters2]

66. Rich people live in suburbs, which are often more conservative than

rural areas. There's plenty of rural poverty, but dumbfucks like you are too stupid to look past stereotypes.

[cynatnite]

108. Geez, I guess I should have said I was being sarcastic...

Sorry, you didn't get that. You were way out of line.

[Geek_Girl]

57. I think it has more to do with our nations history

the rural parts of the country in the south and midwest Succeeded from the country. I live in a southern city and believe me they are still somewhat bitter about the civil war. I know Lincoln was a republican but the republican party has changed. The republicans have become very good at spouting off anti government rhetoric that resonates with southerners that still have issues with the civil war. Unfortunately it is now part of the southern culture you only have to walk into any flee market in the southeast and take note of all the rebel flags flying.

[Critters2]

80. Wow. What crap! Midwesterners are bitter about the Civil War?!

I've lived in rural Iowa and Illinois, in communities that are deeply proud of their ancestors who fought for the Union, of ancestors who ran the Underground Railroad, of ancestors who knew Lincoln. Learn a little history.

And I think you mean "seceded", not "succeeded". You support my theory that the issue is not rural areas--it's the South.

[Geek_Girl]

153. sorry I shouldn't have said Midwestern

Just the states that seceded I was thinking more like Missouri and yes if you look at the rural parts of the country they tend to be more in those regions where secession took place.

[cornermouse]

155. Uh... Yes and no.

Missouri had union posts as well as confederate posts and the fighting in Missouri was particularly bitter, vicious, and destructive. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Geek_Girl]

190. Yes I know Missouri was both claimed by the Union and the Confederacy during the civil war.

But you just made my ignore list. I wish some people were more polite on this forum.

[cornermouse]

191. I understand quite well what you're trying to do.

According to you, we should just allow you to slap us around without objecting or protesting.

[PVnRT]

176. Uhhhhhh....

Ever notice that enormous swatch of rural in the middle of the country? They were all Union territory during the war. And Missouri never seceded.

[Zorra]

59. Ingrained rural cultural and family norms leading to intense peer pressure, causing

rural kids to stop thinking so that they can fit in?

I've noticed that a lot of the more literate and intelligent rural kids leave rural areas as soon as they get the chance.

Life could be tough for an intelligent raging liberal in Armadillo Root, Alabama or Burrito Fold, Utah.

Don't know, just a possibility.

[mitchum]

60. Because they believe anything their fucking preachers tell them

[Critters2]

67. As one of their fucking preachers, I can assure you this is not the case. nt

[mitchum]

75. Please accept my apologies...not ALL rural preachers...

but you can not deny the crazyass reactionary nonsense being spewed from so many pulpits in "the church in the wildwood"
It's a tradition.

[Critters2]

77. The "church in the wildwood" is a congregation of the United Church of Christ, not a fundie

denomination.

The real crazy churches are the megachurches in the 'burbs.

[mitchum]

89. I was using "church in the wildwood" (from that hoary old hymn) as a metaphor...

a metaphor like that grape juice and cracker thing.
However, I agree that there are indeed plenty of suburban rednecks in those megachurches.
Unfortunately, the common man is just a little too...common.

[cali]

69. aaargh. Vermont is the least religious state in the country.

It's rural.

[Zomby Woof]

97. Oregon and Washington are

The least-churched states in the nation, per capita.

[SeekerBlue]

63. Less people / less diversity = more oppression

In my experience.

[cali]

71. Yes, yes. I'm so oppressed here in the Northeast Kingdom.

[SeekerBlue]

93. + LOTS of true believers

sorry :)

[Cid_B]

129. Help! Help! Im being repressed!!!

[SoCalDem]

73. Isolation..dilution of the gene pool

Singularity of thought, due to the small population. In some small towns, a person who's been there 15 years, is still the "new guy".

[Bluerthanblue]

76. if the responses on this post are any indication, people from rural areas clearly

don't have to worry about being any more arrogant, self-righteous and judgmental an just plain UGLY than those in urban areas.

GEEZ people, what a wonderful assortment of fucked up responses.

I'm ashamed of the prejudice, stereotyping and judgmental asshole-ry displayed.


One thing you may not have taken into consideration is that rural areas have a difficult time keeping young people- the lure of the city life is big- and that is also where the jobs are.

Another thing is that a LOT of moneyed conservatives have been known to retreat to rural areas where they live large and hire us ignorant, in-bred, backwoods idiots to clean their toilets, and cater their events, cut their lawns and care for their children.


:shrug:

.... #*&#)@**%#)*!

[LostInAnomie]

78. Cultural isolation, cultural homogeneousness, a lack of dealing with urban issues...

... a lack of organization in terms of politics letting small, determined groups dominate, etc.

[armyowalgreens]

81. Social/Economic isolation and inadequate education systems...

But that can occur anywhere. It's just more likely to occur when there is greater distance between persons.

When you live in a community that is isolated from the rest of the world, you lack the ability to experience the realities of others. You are stuck in your own ignorance.

This all ties in to the development of the human brain and social skills. You learn through interaction with your environment.

Several variables could apply here:

1. Social isolation- disproportionate ratios of races, genders, political views etc.
2. Economic isolation- primitive forms of economic exchange on a small scale can function very well. So if you only experience that form of economic system, you assume it's the best way for everyone else.
3. Underfunded, understaffed education systems- Rural areas are often abandoned when it comes time to allocate funds and resources to education. Money tends to be funneled to areas of greater wealth. This has to do with the source of political power; money. It's a self-sustaining system that creates barriers to entry.

Also, since a good amount of school funds comes from things like local property tax, a poor, uneducated community is doomed to be underfunded anyway.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[armyowalgreens]

90. Stupid post.

[MajorChode]

102. Maybe, but it's not without basis

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3202556

[armyowalgreens]

123. Statistics are bullshit without explanation...

IQ can be developed at a young age. Early childhood education can literally create greater capacity for intelligence.

If the rural area lacks early childhood education programs, the average IQ of permanent residence would likely go down.


But to suggest that the reason why rural areas are conservative is because of low IQs is being disingenuous. The real root of the problem is poor education systems and social isolation.

[MajorChode]

127. Actually the bullshit comes with the explanation

Statistics are what they are and as long as they are gathered correctly, are never "bullshit". The bullshit comes in sometimes when people try to offer a reason why they are what they are because causation is sometimes quite hard to identify and often gets confused with correlation.

You're also quite wrong. Programs like Head Start produce only initial IQ score gains at very early ages.

Even if the causation you suggest is correct (and I'm not saying it is), then the net result is still the same which is that rural Americans tend to live farther to the left on the bell curve.

Personally I don't buy yours or the previous poster's causation because there are plenty of undereducated and isolated rural communities that are almost exclusively liberal.

[tech3149]

84. Having grown up in a rural area, I can point to two specific causes

First is the education level. Most school districts rely on property taxes as the basis for school funding. That puts rural and low-income inner city communities at a disadvantage for funding effective education systems. Having lived in both ends of those communities and worked to support schools in all the economic tiers, I know firsthand the disparity and how it affects the level of education.

The second cause for rural communities is the ingrained idea of self-sufficiency. In most cases, these people are more than capable of taking care of their basic life needs. If the roof leaks, you grab a ladder and go fix it. If the plumbing doesn't work you don't call a plumber, you grab your toolbox, find the problem and fix it.

Dealing with the realities of the urban and suburban elite is so foreign to them they can't understand the mentality.
The problem goes both ways. Those that have had a good education and didn't have to bust there butt's just to stay alive don't understand that we don't all play on a level field. My experience is only anecdotal but I would guess my 50 years of experience would be reflected by many others.

[Neecy]

86. I agree with this

I've always lived in urban areas and I moved to a small rural community of 1200 last April. It was as much of a culture shock to me as I'm sure it would be for someone here to pick up and move to Chicago. Apples and oranges.

Eduction is the biggest issue that I see. People here want low taxes, and with a tiny population base to begin with the school system is shockingly bad. Bad education leads to a cycle of dead-end jobs, meth abuse (LOTS of it) and problems with the cops. Both of my neighbors here in "the heartland" are on probation. Both hate authority - big shock, eh? People here are far more Libertarian than what I'd consider conservative or Republican.

We're in the county seat so we have better service than most - the county Sheriff's office is here, we have a small local police force, a county hospital and EMT services, a small fire department. The roads aren't terrible. People do see the result of their taxes - and they still bitch about them. I own two homes here and my total tax bill yearly for BOTH is under $500. I'd gladly pay triple that to improve the school system because that's the only way to truly improve lives, but I'd be viewed as a crank.

Still, I like living here and I'm sorry to see that my former urbanites are being so cruel (and ignorant) in this thread. Most of the people I've met are truly nice. I do feel welcome and I like the sense of community. And the surrounding areas are beautiful and peaceful.

[LWolf]

187. Good points. I agree. nt

[Hekate]

85. Less diversity, seriously. When you are surrounded by people just like you...

When you are surrounded by people who look like you, have very similar backgrounds, that pretty much share your opinions, and if they go to church it's one of the Christian denominations and not Jewish or Hindu -- you see yourself and your way of life reflected all around you. That's rural and small town.

It's only human nature to believe that your way of life is THE right way to live if you have nothing else to compare it with.

Anyone in these circumstances who deviates significantly from the norm (that is, the norm surrounding them) tends to leave, or they stay and keep trying to fit in and often are miserable. Everyone else is happy...

Cities are overwhelmingly diverse by comparison. You could end up working with and living next door to almost anyone in the world -- and you have to learn to at least tolerate that. City dwellers generally do more than tolerate, though; they enjoy the diversity and they think this is how the world operates. If you want to be with people who look like you or share your opinions, there's huge opportunities to join religious and social groups of like-minded folks.

It's only human nature to believe that this is how people really ought to live, even if you envy the rural folks their greenery and quiet.

Hekate

[DailyGrind51]

95. More homogeneous, less exposure to others unlike themselves.

[Kitty Herder]

126. I think of it as "ideological incest."

People in my small town, which is the only one I can speak about knowledgeably, aren't exposed to people who see the world differently than they do, so they don't have their assumptions and privileges challenged. And they reinforce each others conservative notions and distrust of people who are different. It's like the conservative ideas breed because there are no other ideas for them to mix with and the resulting offspring is an even uglier, more screwed up, and more intense conservative ideology.

[DailyGrind51]

128. Very true! And, even when different ideas are presented, they are

unwilling to consider them.

[Motown_Johnny]

isolation breeds ignorance

[MajorChode]

103. You hit the nail on the head here

I would add that ignorance breeds bigotry also, and so-called "conservatism" has a lot to do with bigotry.

[beevul]

107. As many replies to this thread show, that works both ways.

Urban centers, and aparently some of the posters posting from them, are quite isolated from any truly rural areas.

On edit: I accidentally put rural where I meant urban.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[amborin]

99. Marx spoke to this : the petit bourgeoisie:

they were/are the small landowners, shopkeepers, etc.....

they were a reactionary force...afraid of impoverishment; yet didn't identify with the proletariat but rather with the dominant class, the bourgeoisie.

the 'countryside' has often displayed this tendency

<http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1887/role-force/ch05.>

[Zomby Woof]

100. Isolation is a large part of it

First, let's dismiss with the horseshit that talk radio magically created a conservative base in rural America. Rural America existed long before radio, and if you take even a cursory glance at history, you will note that the rural areas usually have trended conservative (the key word is "usually", so you dwellers in places fond of dairy cows and maple syrup keep your panties on). The fact is, the differences between urban and rural people, in terms of political/religious/educational/traditional mores and norms were noted by contemporary observers as early as the French Revolution. Marx picked up on this, and in subsequent events in Europe, when he remarked in The Communist Manifesto upon "the idiocy of rural life". Mind you, not 'idiocy' in the George W. Bush definition of the term, but rather is derived from a German idiom (naturally lost in translation), in which 'idiot' roughly means 'isolated from the wider society', 'one who sees with narrow horizons of view', etc.

Perhaps a corollary to Mill's observation is in order: "While not all conservative people are rural, it is true that most rural people are conservative".

[Odin2005]

101. The 3 G's: God, Gays, and Guns.

I should know, I grew up in a rural area.

[cali]

194. uh huh. and that's why the 1st state to institute civil unions was a rural one

and the first state to institute marriage equality via the legislative process was that same rural state. Oh, and it's also the least religious state.

[Withywindle]

104. I've lived in both, so here are my 2 cents.

I grew up in a tiny town in SW VA (Appalachia) and live in Chicago now. Here's some things I know about my home town.

1) It has a population of 250. Only one of those people (literally!) is something other than white - my mom, as it happens. She's not American-born either. What she experienced living there was not so much racism as a sort of mind-boggled curiosity. It's like a character from Marco Polo's travels appearing in a European medieval town. Most people there had never met a person from another country before. (Most people there don't travel more than 50 miles or so from where they were born). So you have a lot of insularity and homogenity. The advent of hate radio DOES make a difference: it's a lot easier to swallow lies about "the other" if you've never had the opportunity to meet them.

2) Severe poverty. Where I grew up, living without indoor plumbing, a phone, or electricity was not uncommon. In some ways, it might be easier to survive out in the country - you can hunt, do subsistence farming, etcetera. On the other hand, there is no public transportation whatsoever and your nearest neighbor might be a mile or two away. People there who followed the news were well aware that most politicians pay lip service to eradicating poverty, but it always seems to be poor people somewhere else that they're talking about. I don't think any national politician has taken a real serious interest in Appalachia since RFK.

3) The distrust of government in that region goes back pretty far, and there are a few historical things kind of specific to the region that the local people there have never forgotten: (1) the descent of capitalists from the cities to snap up mineral and timber rights to the land in the 19th century in such a way that left the people living there with most of the hard labor and none of the profits, (2) the deployment of federal troops to fight the coal miners in WV, and (3) Prohibition, which cracked down on the local homemade liquor industry, which was the livelihood of many people. In a region where extended-family relationships and family histories are still extremely important, the cultural memory is long. (That's one of the things I admire most about Appalachian culture - we should all be as aware of our history, IMO.)

4) Anti-intellectualism. This is kind of a self-feeding loop. You know the controversial talk about how in the Black community, sometimes kids who study and have ambitions are accused of "acting white" and have it beaten out of them by their peers? Same thing happens with poor whites, only they're accused of "gettin' above their raisin'" and putting on airs and planning to ditch their families to make money in The City. I think in both cases it comes out of a sense of insecurity. No one wants to think that their friends and relatives will become ashamed of them. And yes, poor rural whites often do believe that their ideas of Liberals make excuses for the former and dismiss the latter.

[discocrisco01]

113. Outreach to Rural Poor

I think that people should seriously address this issue of white, rural poor. The white, rural poor could not relate to Obama because he is so "different". When Hillary Clinton went into that area, they gave her overwhelming support to her because they could relate to her. It is matter of perception. These people are not given enough opportunties to travel outside of their natural area unless a person actually visits there and moves there.

Going there one time is not going to solve the problems there. It takens a person multiple visits there. They have to get to know you. They have to get familiar with your ways and you have many, many discussions about the life, universe, and everything. From those discussions, minds will eventually open up and realize the truth. However, it takes a lots of hard work and learning to befriend people that resent your way life. You have to show them unconditional love and show them the progressive way of life.

Nobody on our side wants to do that and so these attitudes are going to stick until that is done.

[Withywindle]

116. Simple geography has a lot to do with it, in a cold way.

One housing project in Chicago = more potential votes than you could get in Appalachia driving 6 hours over bad roads. Sparse population equals neglect.

Rural people are very aware of the math.

[Withywindle]

120. Also, racism is a very real factor.

Imagine being a 60-year-old white person WHO HAS NEVER MET A BLACK PERSON. Incredible, right? Not really. In Appalachia, there really are a lot of people like that. My county was one of the most "diverse" in the region, and I still never had a black classmate until high school (when there were exactly 2 in the one high school that served my whole county.)

For what it's worth, Hillary was hated by the RW talk-show pundits - but she was white, and married to a white guy with a southern accent who, as he played up well, came from a trailer park in Arkansas. Agree with his positions or not, people there felt on a visceral level that this was at least "the devil they knew." What bugged them about Obama wasn't so much that he was black (although that was a factor, let's be honest, there is a lot of racism there) was that he was a CITY GUY. He dressed like one, talked like one, and wrote in his biography about URBAN community organizing. And he had an international background, and I know from my own experience, people who have never been able to go more than 50 miles from their place of birth freak out some over people who've traveled. (There are those who invest themselves in the "birther" bullshit because they are on some level jealous and also want to believe that "true" Americans are people like themselves who've never left the continent at any age or for any reason.)

[raccoon]

137. Great post. Help me on this,

"And yes, poor rural whites often do believe that their ideas of Liberals make excuses for the former and dismiss the latter."

It's not clear to me who the former and the latter refer to here.

[Withywindle]

148. Oops, sorry.

They believe that liberals make excuses for black people and immigrants and urbanites, but dismiss the problems of poor rural whites.

[leftofthedial]

109. conservative = ignorant.

not as many channels in the country.

And the ones they have are all "clear."

[mamaleah]

111. How about asking why so many ubrbanites are so arrogant.

Because we all know the urban centers are made up of all intelligent, friendly, cultured people. No one at all in a city clings to traditions. No siree. Just ignore all those little areas like Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Little Italy, shtetls, little Havana, etc. And the education is superior to anywhere. We all know at least 99.9999999% of urbanites attend college. High drop out rates? No no...those are just......hey look over there! It's a "hick" to mock!

And then as a follow-up thread, maybe pose the question of why urbanites are still shocked that those living in rural areas still see them as arrogant little twits. And then link back to this thread.

[tj2001]

112. Because their electrification and roads were paid for by the government

and their elderly rely on Medicare and their poor rely on Medicaid and food stamps.

[northernlights]

125. combination of factors?

If I remember correctly, education laws are (or used to) work around kids needed at home to help with the farming. So farm kids generally grew up less educated over the past few generations, and also less exposed to general society. Their upbringing has been more authoritarian -- from working at home on the farm with Sundays in church. Anything beyond that tends to be "frivolous" in that there is no time, energy or money to devote to it.

[Bill McBlueState]

132. Rural New England is ridiculously liberal

Any explanation of rural versus urban tendencies has to account for this exception.

[pipi_k]

172. Wellllll....somewhat....

There are rural towns (in Western Mass anyway) that are heavily Conservative, although I only know of one in the general area that usually votes almost entirely Republican.

Some towns, like I said, are heavily Conservative, but are only outnumbered by a very small margin of Liberals.

And then there are rural towns that are mostly Liberal.


Sort of depends...

One thing I can say is that the mostly Liberal rural towns are populated by people who have college educations, and are professors, etc.

The more Conservative rural towns are populated by mostly farmers or blue collar workers with High School educations or less.

[cali]

196. and you would be..... bzzzt wrong. My rural Vermont town in the Northeast Kingdom

reliably votes for Bernie and Pat. We voted for Obama. It's hardly populated by college educated people. More like loggers, farmers and people scraping by.

[NoSheep]

139. Homogeneity....

[izzybeans]

141. Information access.

Social Network analysts can track people's access to news, books, etc. No libraries, poor schools, no news radio, a whole lot of Rush Limbaugh like talk-radio, and churches who suffer from the same information deficits. And their overall lack of interaction with strangers gives them poor access to new resources and leaves with them of no awareness of the multicultural society they live in.

Urbanites with the same information deficits typically are wealthy enough to afford the shiny things that easily divert their attention from their surroundings and surround themselves with similar people. For the urbanite its utter laziness. For the rural dweller its luck of the draw. It takes a lot more effort for someone living in rural areas to get good information. In the area where I grew up the farmers were most likely to be liberal and the wanna be cowboys living in trailers were the republicans. Independent farmers had to interact with markets in the city and also understood the nature of monopolies, so they tended to side with the party that looked after there interest. My grandfather was one of them. Those people should be commended for there hard work.

[jeffrey_X]

142. Less exposure to difference, diversity and...

more time perpetuating old and conservative stereotypes, etc.

[TwilightGardener]

143. They have to depend on each other more, as neighbors and communities.

I live in a very small rural town in Nebraska, and your neighbors are your paramedics, your plumber, your son's teacher, and your tractor rescue if you end up getting your truck stuck in a muddy ditch (this happened to me). You can't afford not to know who your neighbors are, the way you can in bigger cities and suburbs. You can't get away with being anonymous and live-and-let-live, so you care more about the values, attitudes, and lifestyles of those around you (whom you depend on). That's my theory.

[bulldogge]

146. That

is a stereotype nothing more. Both kinds exist in the rural setting. In fact just today I was looking at a list of my local representatives and found the structure of it all interesting. The federal reps are Democrats by enlarge, the mayor is a Democrat, the town council is 75 % conservative, and those that voted for or against Obama in the area is only separated by a fraction of % points. Pretty even split.

[fascisthunter]

150. isolation and lack of integration

culture tends to be more static, as opposed to culture in urban environments.

[cali]

152. uh huh. and that's why Vermont is such a notoriously conservative state.

[Dinger]

169. +1

:) :patriot:

[cornermouse]

154. The incorrect assumptions and ignorance are appalling.

For the most part, rural areas have just as many educated people, if not more, percentage wise as big cities. Smaller schools and classrooms means they're more likely to get personal attention from their teacher than their counterparts in big city schools. That makes up for any deficiencies in equipment. Most of us even have computers and internet access...:eyes:

Rural areas tends to have slower lifestyles, less stress, at least as much enjoyment of life as cities, are generally nicer if you meet them face to face and speak politely, and we probably will live longer than you as well. I don't know where you get these ideas from that you're better, smarter, and more worthy than people in rural areas but it simply isn't true. You talk about rural people being prejudiced and allow people to see how prejudiced you, yourselves are. I know I am not impressed.

p.s. You might want to listen to Busy Being Fabulous by the Eagles or You're So Vain by Carly Simon. For some reason, after reading this thread it fits some of you so well...

[stanwyck]

156. Smaller frame of reference. I grew up in a small town in rural

Illinois. Everyone was white. Almost everyone was Protestant. (a few Catholics - oh, my!). There wasn't much difference in income or education. Most people live there because they like the small town life. Less traffic. Less crime. But the downside is, less exposure to people of different races, religions, and beliefs.

[Fire1]

158. Cause they don't get out much. lol! n/t

[Lagomorph]

159. I tried living in the city....

but there was so much tension...

Now I watch the squirrels play in the trees. They're not as graceful as you might think.

[BolivarianHero]

161. Insular and poorly educated...

It's the same reason why the only Muslim countries that are not failed states are the ones that went through an extended period of socialism rather than of neo-liberalism, theocracy, or a combination thereof.

[cornermouse]

163. I'll tell my brother

who graduated from a high school class of less than 20 and went on to get his Ph.D that you said he's too insular and poorly educated to have earned it. :eyes:

[BolivarianHero]

166. Well okay...

Kuwait and Bahrain (Sp?) come close, but the only Muslim-majority countries with university literacy and with gender parity wrt literacy rates are Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan.

The fact that many Muslim countries aside from these have good schools and well-educated people is independent of the fact that as a whole, they have low literacy rates and high gender inequality when it comes to these rates.

[cornermouse]

198. Golly gee...

Everyone in my family learned to read. My classmates up the road could read. The classmates on the other side of the section could read too.

[L0oniX]

167. The fumes from all the cow, pig and horse shit tend to affect certain areas of the brain?

[LWolf]

188. Horseshit smells like perfume

next to human shit, city garbage, and city smog.

Feedlots aside, of course. Then again, if humans were packed in that tight in the middle of all their shit, I'd take the cattle lot any day.

That reminds me; I've got to go out and pick up some horseshit. Today I'm piling it around fruit trees. It makes a nice deep mulch that both feeds the trees and means that I only have to water them every couple of weeks, even in the summer furnace. No fertilizer costs, saves water, and my chickens free range the orchard, ensuring that flies don't thrive or breed. And I get some luscious fruit.

Clean air, a nice breeze, and the scents on the air are a combination of the local junipers and my old fashioned roses.

[LWolf]

189. Dupe.

[Dinger]

168. I Live In A Rural Area. Here's A Glimpse At My Little Town:

The town I live in has a population of 266. It is one of several "Democratic Islands" in a rather republican county. Things are changing though. In the last several elections, if you would drive through our town, you would see 100 % Democratic signs,, not one republican sign. Not one.

I am a teacher, a public school teacher. The school district I teach in has a 70+ poverty rate. About half of the students are Native American. Though we have a high poverty rate, our students have been outperforming their peers for many years, and have won awards for their performance. An unfair school funding formula is killing rural schools here, and I hear almost nothing from Arne Duncan about rural school issues.

My husband is a welder, and he he is good at it, and he is a loyal Democrat. Our son went to a technical college, and his wife is going to college now, pursuing her education degree, while she works two jobs. They are both very loyal Democrats and I love them dearly. We live in a log cabin on 40 acres of woods. I like it here. (Log Cabin Democrats) Also, my mom and dad are loyal Dems too.

One of my good friends (from my tiny, tiny town) is a doctor, who, with her family, has just left for New Zealand for one year to study their health care system. She (yes, she) has worked closely with her Democratic representatives. She and her Democratic family have been long time supporters of state, local, and national Democratic policies.

There is another person in my little town who just got back from London, where he was an investment banker. He planned to stay there for 3 years, and return here with his family. He was in New York on 9-11, and saw the 2nd plane hit the tower. Also, he was in London when the train/subway was bombed. He was very, very lucky. His parents are older, and he wants to be near them. Also, they own an insurance company, a successful one. He and his parents are loyal Democrats. They have long been involved in community work. One example: Every holiday they invite those in the community who cannot afford a meal to come to their house for a meal. For those who have no one to share the holiday with, they do the same. They have been doing this for over 30 years.


These are just a few examples for your consideration. There are more. I will add some if you like. Every word here is the truth. I will not respond to other posts in this thread that smear rural people as being uneducated "Deliverance" types. We in rural areas are a lot more diverse than you think.

Thank you.

[Le Taz Hot]

170. TAke a look at the responses in this post.

We're ignorant, we don't get out much, we're uneducated, we're racist . . . There's not enough space to list all the names we've been called just in this one thread. Could it be the so-called liberals (I call them faux liberals because they've no ideas what true liberalism really means) have a long history of looking down their nose at us? Could it be that we are SICK of these stereotypes accusing ALL rural people fill the pejoratives overflowing in some of these posts? Could it be that the Republican party has actually reached out to the rural areas and all we get from the Democratic party are ridicule and condescension?

Now pardon me while I put the hayseed back in my teeth on my way to the outhouse, just on the other side of the ceeeement pond. :eyes:

[treestar]

171. Is it possible not to take it personally?

Of course there are liberals there and conservatives in the city. The idea was to get behind why the majority was conservative. Knowing that, it can be changed. But you must not be helping much, just choosing to be a martyr rather than add to the discussion of the issue.

[Le Taz Hot]

173. You asked a question,

I answered it. Now I'm a martyr. OK. Thanks for "helping with the discussion." :eyes:

[Lagomorph]

181. There are people here...

...with thick pads of inflammatory labels and fast hands.

Every portion of every sentence is instantly analyzed for political slant and immediately labeled.

Just roll with it... it isn't progressive, just the opposite, really, but it can be entertaining once the wounds heal.

[pecwae]

183. You got an outhouse?

All we got is a trench in back.

[Umbral]

174. They have a false sense of self sufficiency. nt

[Initech]

177. Because their primary sources of entertainment are TV, high school football and church?

:shrug:

[NeedleCast]

180. One Word

Jesus

[cali]

192. three words: rural new england.

[county worker]

182. I lived in a rural area for five years. I moved back 2 years ago.

Here's my reasoning.

Historically the area I lived in was cattle country. Today is still is open range country. People there are leary about people that don't think and act like they do. It is a community where you don't have to lock your doors at night. In the five years I lived there I never locked my doors. People wave hello to every car that passes by their place or every car that passes going the other way. It is just the custom to do that. People have each others back there. It's a circle the wagons mentality. If you aren't wearing a cowboy hat and boots and western clothes you scare them. If you are wearing them you are part of the group. It doesn't matter what you think as long as you don't open your mouth. If you look the part you are considered one of the community. Even better if you are riding a horse.

If anyone of them talks politics to you it is always the conservative point of view. They just assume you agree with them if you look like them. There are 3 or 4 generations of some families living there. There is one school and one church. They never left the 50's mentalities when everything was conservative. The place is a throw back to old times. Parents teach their kids conservative values and they teach their kids. The church and school back them up.

Now these people would give you the shirt off their backs if you needed it. If your neighbor's pipes freeze in the winter they just assume you will help out with the repairs.

They are great people but they think different politically and religiously than I did and I never needed to let them know that my point of view was any different then theirs

We don't need to judge everyone by their political positions or where they live. I would rather live with these people than many of the urban folks where I live now.

[Name removed]

195. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fading Captain]

199. Wow. Feeling superior DU?

I live in an urban area and edit a weekly in a rural area.

It is frustrating dealing with conservatives all the time, but the suggestion that they are less educated than people in urban areas is ridiculous.
One urban center I lived near had one of the worst high school graduation rates ever recorded.


There are a lot of people I work with who what the Democratic Party precisely because they believe the Dems think they're smarter than everyone.

Don't prove their point.