"The Worst Is Yet To Come & All Trails Lead To VP" - 7 Points on the CIA Report - By Scott Horton

[kpete]

Seven Points on the CIA Report

By Scott Horton

#1

The worst is yet to come. Yesterday the CIA released a fresh copy of the report with roughly half of the “case study” discussion now unmasked. But context and placement suggest that the material that remains concealed contains some of the worst discussion of abuse in the report. The heavy redactions start around page 25, and the redactions cover discussion of the origins of the program and the approval process, as well as the discussion of specific prisoners, notably Abu Zubaydah, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, and Khalid Shaikh Mohammad. Although cases in which the guidelines provided by the Justice Department were exceeded have been discussed, it’s likely the case that the still blacked-out passages cover instances where Justice gave a green light but the conduct was so gruesome that CIA wants to keep it under wraps. That means we haven’t heard the last of the Helgerson report, and further disclosures are likely.

...............

#4

All trails lead to the Vice President’s office. At several points, redactions begin just when the discussion is headed toward the supervision or direction of the program and context suggests that some figure far up the Washington food chain is intervening. Moreover, as Jane Mayer recounts in Dark Side, Helgerson’s report was shut down when he was summoned, twice, to meet with Dick Cheney, who insisted that the report be stopped. Cheney had good reason to be concerned. This report shows that the vice president intervened directly in the process and ensured that the program was implemented. The OPR report likewise shows Cheney’s office commissioning the torture memos and carefully supervising the process. It is increasingly clear that torture was Dick Cheney’s special project and that he was personally and deeply involved in it. And the CIA report has some amazing nuggets that show Cheney’s hand. In 2003, after Jay Bybee departed OLC, Cheney struggled to have John Yoo installed as his successor, but ultimately John Ashcroft’s candidate, Jack Goldsmith, prevailed. Goldsmith quickly backtracked on the torture authorizations that Yoo and Bybee gave. The result? The CIA stopped taking its cue from OLC and instead turned to the White House for guidance. It is remarkably vague on the particulars, and blackouts emerge just as passages seem to be getting interesting. But there’s little doubt that Dick Cheney and his staff were pushing the process from behind the scenes.

more:
http://harpers.org/archive/2009/08/hbc-90005599

[JuniperLea]

1. Where is ol' snarly puss anyway?

He packed for that secret island yet?

[redqueen]

2. Squealing about the report, of course.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4031494

[Warpy]

5. He's lawyered up and feels the noose starting to tighten

He'll go to his grave believing he was a patriot who sacrificed himself to save his country.

It will never dawn on him that he tried to destroy it.

[redqueen]

9. Do you really think he believes that?

I sure don't. I think he's a neocon who is only interested in furthering chaos and providing further opportunities to profit off of war and suffering.

Straussian theory dictates that you use dogmas in order to herd the 'sheep' so you can profit off of their stupidity / gullibility.

He's an evil, selfish con man. No more.

[Warpy]

10. No, the worst evil is perpetrated by patriots who know they're right

about everything they're doing. All the worst monsters throughout history were great patriots.

They're monsters because they're absolutely devoted to "nation" but are blind to humanity and human suffering.

This is what I think Cheney is.

[Liberation Angel]

14. There is nothing patriotic about this treasonous bastard

neither was there anything patriotic about Bush or Hitler for that matter.

It was all about insane sociopathic bloodlust and greed.

Patriotism has NOTHING to do with these necrophilic beasts

[Warpy]

27. Not to sensible people, certainly

but they honestly believe they're patriots and we're traitors.

All the people you cited were great patriots who were utterly certain of the righteousness of their actions.

[Jackpine Radical]

55. I beg to disagree.

I think that Cheney is a psychopath, a power-head, a self-aggrandizing con man and manipulator who is incapable of responding to higher principles, even mistaken ones.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. I agree with you, Warpy.

Some of the most evil behavior is by people who have convinced themselves that they are saviors or patriots. Mr. Six Deferments During Vietnam is no doubt one of them.

[Liberation Angel]

29. While they ARE delusional, they also KNOW they are not patriots

Patriotism is their front.

But they know it is a false front.

At least the real fascists know it is all a bullshit front.

Patriotism is ALL front for them.

Maybe an idiot puppet like Reagan was a patriot to some degree and even may have meant well, but he also knew he was just a puppet run by the Bush puppeteers (so he knew too that what he did was criminal and wrong and nothing patriotic about it.

I protest this point because it is an important one. Fascist USE the PRETENSE of patriotism to cover up the stench of their unpatriotic treason.

NEVER give them credit for being patriots.

Even THEY kno they are merely criminals working for a criminal class of ethnic haters.

[Jackpine Radical]

56. Yes, yes, yes.

Reagan was a tool; Cheney is a tool-user.

[ima_sinnic]

32. he didn't give a shit about any "nation," let alone the USA

he is a soulless, conniving, evil con man whose only interest has been in fattening his wallet while cleverly pulling the strings orchestrating war, bloodshed, and violence. There still is nothing he won't do to advance himself at the expense of others. A person without conscience has no concept of "patriotism." Patriotism is for people with courage. People like Dennis Kucinich are patriots, not that lying sack of shit who should be hanged for treason.

[LeFleur1]

42. Partiot?

Naw, Cheney is a coward and he knows he's a coward. That's why he glories in the torture. He's too much of a coward to do it himself, but the idea that he can make a person cry with his decisions and then watch the videos of it makes him feel less like what he is...an evil cowardly little man.
Of all the bad things Bush did to the country, chosing this creep as a running mate was the worst thing he did.

[ima_sinnic]

43. I doubt that bush "chose" cheney; probably the other way around

BFEE, including cheney, figured out their plan for the coup, then installed bush as a useful idiot to front for them. I suspect that widdle bush had very little input into anything over the course of his 8 years. all his words and actions were carefully scripted and rehearsed. He did what he was told while knowing deep down that he was a fraud and completely incompetent and inappropriate for the job.

[Jackpine Radical]

57. Even Goldwater was a patriot, but he was a far different kind of person

than Cheney.

[Amos Moses]

58. I see what you mean.

Some of the replies to your comment makes it sound like you were giving him a compliment. :eyes:

[Jackpine Radical]

54. You're calling it exactly right.

And for an excellent analysis of the Straussian/Neocon mentality at work, see John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience.

[Ikonoklast]

59. Big 'second' for Dean's book.

Every DU'er who hasn't read this, should take the time and do so.

John Dean knows of that which he speaks.

[redqueen]

61. Thanks for the suggestion...

that one's been on my list for a while now.

[JuniperLea]

7. I must have missed the late news last night...

I hate myself for how much I hate this creature.

[George II]

21. He's out bashing the Obama administration to put up a futile smoke screen....

[Myrina]

37. he released a statement on Tuesday blaming Obama ...

... said that all this investigating and wanting to treat prisoners fairly etc shows that Obama is not interested in nor capable of keeping Murkan's safe from Terra-ists.


:eyes: Dick's like a broken record, even 8 years on ....

[felinetta]

50. I seriously heard on MSNBC a couple days ago that he was on a boat. So he had no comment.

[Uncle Joe]

3. An excellent analysis, "opposition from within."

2. "Opposition from within. For years the CIA has said that CIA personnel would be demoralized and the reputation of the agency would be damaged by disclosure of the contents of the report. But the report documents just the opposite. The Inspector General’s review was launched by complaints coming from valued senior employees who felt that the Bush Program (as John Yoo has dubbed it) was wrong. One of them actually expresses his worry that those involved will be hauled before the World Court at some point because of This makes clear that good employees of the agency opposed the Bush Program, were vocal in their opposition, and focused concern on the program’s illegality. The OLC memos were intended to silence these complaints, but they only accentuated the agency’s morale problems by enmeshing it in obviously illegal and immoral conduct. By contrast, the number of CIA personnel involved in pushing it through and supporting it is tiny—probably not many more than two dozen—though their voices are heard very loudly. It’s interesting that in a stream of appearances by CIA personnel on TV yesterday—Tyler Drumheller, Jack Rice, Bob Baer and others—all said that a criminal investigation was a good idea. The official spokesman of the CIA torture team remains, as for the last seven years, David Ignatius."

The vast majority of the CIA along with the military leadership was against torture, but that wasn't good enough for the fascist Cheney/Bush regime.

[leveymg]

13. Subversion from Above Met with Opposition from Within. The Agency/JCS always win - ask Nixon

Why did Bush and Cheney think they were any different?

[EFerrari]

17. Poppy, maybe. That would be my guess. n/t

[grasswire]

4. so the reason for no investigations lies with Paul J. McNulty..

...the ultimate Bush FIXER. McNulty was appointed U.S. Attorney at the rocket docket in Virginia where the Bush WH dumped a lot of matters that needed fixing. And he did not follow up on referrals of torture.

McNulty, also a FIXER in Selection 2000, should be hauled before a grand jury.

[Echo In Light]

6. No prosecution = Precedent established

[conscious evolution]

8. k&r

[arcadian]

11. Protest at Cheney's - 1126 Chain Bridge Road, Mclean, Virginia.

Stop on in.

[DavidDvorkin]

12. It doesn't matter where the trail leads

Nothing will happen. No one will be punished, except possibly some low-level underling.

A month from now, all of this will be forgotten. Perhaps sooner than that.

[Liberation Angel]

15. These horrors will NEVER be forgotten

history will not be kind to any of these treasonous killers (or to America or even Obama if he lets them get away with this)

And the UN is saying prosecutions are in order...

[DavidDvorkin]

23. I'd be delighted to be wrong.

[wiggs]

18. So who can read the redacted portions? Chairman of the intelligence committee?

Any congressmen? How about potus and vpotus? How about Fitzgerald?

Someone knows what's went on and we're getting redacted bs that we know is only part of the story. Why can't the administration say what the memo is and what the memo isn't?

[Cha]

19. It must be more shittier than usual to

be around cheney these days..can't imagine ol' dick even likes it.

[Jennicut]

25. He may be more of an ahole to be around then usual

:rofl:

[George II]

20. TRIPLE rec, if I could!!!

Great post...tick/tock/tick/tock.......

[deaniac21]

22. We neede to focus on healthcare. This will be a distraction

that will go on for years and get nowhere. This may be our last chance!

[BlueMTexpat]

24. WE don't need to focus on this.

Let the wheels of justice keep on turning. It's in the Special Prosecutor's hands and he'll go where the evidence leads.
In the meantime, WE can keep focusing on health care.

***********
I am very surprised to see someone with the name "deaniac..." who does not support the Rule of Law but calls it a "distraction."

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Can you chew gum and walk at the same time? I know I can

[midnight]

28. That's what I'm thinking. Let's do both.

[cascadiance]

30. AND prosecute those implicated by Sibel Edmonds this week too!

We should have a government that can multi-task. Otherwise we need to ALSO do some heavy lifting of infrastructural change too, like public campaign financing in place to avoid the juggling acts prompted by lobbyist bribes.

If Holder has to do a lot of work on health care reform, or if Obama has to micromanage his work, then something's WRONG!

[deaniac21]

52. I can too but the government......not so sure.

[conscious evolution]

40. Actually,healthcare is the distraction

Crimes against humanity and war crimes by our goverment are far more important issues.
A solution to health care issues would be nice but in the greater scheme of things bringing criminals to justice should be given a higher priority.

[NecklyTyler]

31. I want to see Cheney in jail. n/t

[malaise]

33. Justice is coming

K&R

[Vidar]

34. K&R

[ThomWV]

35. K&R

[Senator]

36. K&+R

[JBoy]

38. If Cheney doesn't face justice, I want

him to spend the rest of his days looking over his shoulder.

[L. Coyote]

39. Cheney gets his orders from and is the cut-out for only one person, and WE ALL know who too!

George W. Bush, leader of the Bush/Cheney Junta!

[Raster]

45. Please. Ol' G.W. can't fart and chew gum at the same time. bush* was just a figurehead.

Just a frontman. He was the BFEE's contribution to the NeoConJob effort. He was not a member of the PNAC as is/was his brother and cheney*.

I concur that there are those high up on the food chain than cheney*, but isn't G.W. Bush*.

[L. Coyote]

48. Don't be so naive.

I actually heard Bush fart while chewing gum once, during a Skull and Bones meeting. :rofl:

[Raster]

49. If he did, it was an unplanned spontaneous expulsion.

[1776Forever]

41. Let us pray what Martin Luther King Jr said when accepting the Nobel Peace Prize comes true!

Martin Luther King's Acceptance Speech, on the occasion of the award of the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo, December 10, 1964

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1964/king-acceptance.html

"I refuse to accept the cynical notion that nation after nation must spiral down a militaristic stairway into the hell of thermonuclear destruction. I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. This is why right temporarily defeated is stronger than evil triumphant. ....I still believe that We Shall overcome!"

Martin Luther King Jr.(1929 - 1968)

[redqueen]

44. Yep... that's why he dragged his sorry ass out of hiding the other day.

He was all over the media for weeks, then went silent after the news of this report came out.

We can only hope his newfound love of the media is due to his anticipation of some form of justice.

[Raster]

46. From your fingers to the International Court's ears!

[JDPriestly]

47. Obstruction of Justice? Conspiracy to commit a crime?

The CIA’s waltz with Justice. The Bush Administration claimed that Justice gave legal advice to the CIA and that the CIA followed and applied it. But the IG report reveals a strikingly different relationship. As the OLC memos were written, there was a sort of waltz between CIA and Justice lawyers in which different hypotheticals were offered up in solicitation of opinions—something on the order of “If we told you we did x, what would you say about it?” This suggests the OLC memos were effectively negotiated. It also appears that CIA requested a number of after-the-fact variations to protect practices that clearly exceeded guidance. Why does this matter? It undermines the ability of CIA employees and contractors to “rely in good faith” on the OLC memos, because it shows that OLC wasn’t really giving legal advice. Instead it was issuing “get out of jail free” cards. A good example comes with waterboarding: “With respect to two detainees at those sites, the use and frequency of one EIT, the waterboard, went beyond the projected use of the technique as originally described to DoJ. The Agency, on 29 July 2003, secured oral DoJ concurrence that certain deviations are not significant for the purposes of DoJ’s legal opinions.”

http://harpers.org/archive/2009/08/hbc-90005599

Lawyers can't normally be charged for writing legal opinions, but what if the the legal opinions are commissioned in order to inhibit prosecution of a crime? Most lawyers are not in a position to do that so the issue does not arise, but here???? Did any of the lawyers in the Justice Department state in a memo that a practice that was brought to their attention or that they were asked to approve could not be used? Did they ever say no? Were they really rendering legal opinions or simply justifying what was going on? Surely the lawyers will be investigated and questioned on this.

[felinetta]

51. Where's Liz? Oh Liz, come out, come out wherever you are.

[windoe]

53. Cheney in chains...

I have a dream.

[tanyev]

60. Dang. "You can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours"

Late to the party again.